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  1. 5 points
    Now that I agree with, he's said it on multiple occasions. But, that doesn't preclude Dundon and his big-daddy bucks from keeping John Forslund and making the improved on-ice product also enjoyable to watch on TV to the greatest extent possible. Pay the man.
  2. 4 points
    Please don't take this comment Tightlinez personally, as I am not picking you out specifically, but I just keep wondering when I've read variations on it, How do people see that keeping vs not keeping John Forslund in the broadcast booth will affect "on ice depth"? I believe it's pretty much 100% consensus that none of us knows his salary, or am I missing something? i've seen some estimates that have ventured something around $350K? Even if he is requesting a 50% raise, how many players can we get for $525K, I've seen it argued by those with much more business acumen than I, and I'll not disagree, that this is Tom Dundon's team to do with it as he deems effective, that he's a billionaire and making tough decisions like this are how he got there, and further that it would appear that Forslund expects to keep getting paid despite no work/games. I'm equally sure that to acquiesce to John's demands could set precedence that TD would not accept. Finally, I also admit that losing Forslund will not undo the Canes' game and people will continue to watch, likely for some muting the sound, but John Forslund is a consummate promoter of the game of hockey and the Canes in particular. He commands and brings a great deal of respect to this team, locally as well as nationally If one thinks about it, as an STM, fully 1/2 of the games are played away from home ice. For those not fortunate enough to be STMs, all of the games are enjoyed through his unbiased, meticulously knowledgeable, hugely impassioned eyesight. An ambassador of the Canes, Raleigh, and the state. Having said that, someone please explain to me how not renewing John Forslund's contract could possible extrapolate to more on ice team depth?
  3. 3 points
    Necas on the ice today
  4. 3 points
    First, this is a subgroup of people who are quarantining, and have tested negative every other day for weeks. Second, they will be in their bubble, not out on the streets. Finally, this is hockey, and that is Canada. I'm pretty sure they're good with it.
  5. 3 points
    I hated to give this a thumbs up but I did because it's TRUE. I will dearly miss the best play by play guy in the business but I watch every game Shaya called and will watch John's replacement as well
  6. 2 points
    We all know top tier free agents won’t even consider the Canes. Even after making the ECF, we were to get one NBCSN game this year, never on the big network unless dictated by the playoffs. Forslund is a guy other local markets would love to have, but he wants to stay here. By all accounts, and I know news reports can be wildly inaccurate, he didn’t ask for a raise. He turned down a contract that would pay on a per game basis, and even then, be tied to revenue at a time when revenue is likely to plummet. It seems possible, maybe likely, that any games played in a 20-21 season will be without fans, meaning the broadcasts could be the only way for Canes fans to watch the team. So now is the time to push away the best announcer in the game? For 29 years, John has been the voice of this franchise and it’s #1 ambassador. Dundon appears willing to let him walk over a fraction of the rookie minimum salary. Remember he wasn’t going to give Waddell a contract until it came out that every team is required to have a GM under contract. Rod’s contract, which Rod made plain was on the light side, is up after next year. If we do well in the playoffs again, might he not be in demand elsewhere? An attitude that everyone is replaceable is not going to attract top talent among broadcasters, or front office guys and coaches. Loyalty is a two way street and eventually the lack of any will cost us.
  7. 2 points
    Hell no! I wear the uniform so we all think alike...my way or the highway!
  8. 2 points
    Nothing taking personally Kajun, unlike many in this country, I still believe that the greatness of this country depended on differing opinions. Your point is a tough argument, and I do not want to see JF not in the booth. I do feel like with the success that TD has had, there must be a method to his madness. We have made the playoffs 2 years in a row. I figure that if for some reason he is not renewing the contract, there must be a viable reason. Anyway, I hope that whatever the decision is, it is putting the team and the product on the ice first and foremost, that is the point I am trying to relay. Appreciate your comments and always have!
  9. 2 points
    Per Chip: Waddell says he talked with John Forslund yesterday and has "left the door open."
  10. 2 points
  11. 2 points
    Watching games On NHL.com there is truly a lot of propped up dead meat calling the games around the league; dead man announcing. Personally I think Doc has a squeaky voice lacking in good inflection for what’s happening on the ice. NFL national game announcers are far smoother with better voice inflection. Yes I’m biased but John is head and shoulders above Doc calling the game with fingertip relevant knowledge and quality moderated excitement in his voice.
  12. 2 points
    It wasn't meant condescendingly at all, Rem. I sincerely don't think you fully comprehend that in those (top five, let alone national broadcast) markets, numbers are just that: numbers. They have almost zero meaning. We're not talking about Bob Costas ($7 million) or Steven A. Smith ($8-10 million). When you're dealing in the kind of money those markets are, and charging the ad rates they are, you simply can't equate that (un)reality to this (all too real) one. Doc Emrick is believed to make "only" $500k. So, if John is indeed making $350K in Raleigh (and granted, we don't know), AND has the freedom to pad that during the year and throughout the playoffs, is he really "undervalued"? It's easy for fans to say "Just pay the man, he's the best." But as an owner of a small market team, you need to know when to say, "If he's that good, and that's his price, somebody else is gonna have to pay it." And a global pandemic with no prospects for gate or broadcast revenue are pretty compelling reasons to do it. This much we can agree on, Rem: We're gonna have to disagree.
  13. 1 point
    BDC, a corollary to one of your points...if there are no fans, then the skill of the broadcaster in creating action and drama in an empty building is probably more important than if there are fans. So tying that to revenue is saying, "your skills are even more important now than ever, but I'll be making less so you can stay with a major pay cut". It's still an open negotiation, and I still have hope, but losing John would be pennywise. Only pennywise. Everyone knows the back end of that phrase.
  14. 1 point
    Great video from Sportsnet of The last 25 years of NHL Playoffs Players goals Carolina Hurricanes
  15. 1 point
    I didn't mean to offend, xray. I just put myself in the shoes of people in both those places (both of which I've visited more than once). The outbreak in the northeast was due in no small part to people from the most-affected countries at the time flying into the region's three busiest international airports. Now people who have spent several weeks training in what is currently the most affected country, where cases are still spiking, are heading to a country that has been largely spared. I'm sorry if noting the parallels harshed your mellow, but now more than ever, and whether we like it or not, reality is for people who can't handle drugs.
  16. 1 point
    Do we have to infect every thread with this topic? Is there any room for fun? Sorry. I'll take a time out.
  17. 1 point
    Here's hoping cooler heads prevail once seasons and playoffs happen like they always have. Until then, NBC will likely be John's primary employer. I can't help but wonder how Torontonians and Edmontonians feel about an influx of ~480 players and staff coming to each of their cities from the worst-affected country on the planet.
  18. 1 point
    Because they can go to 30.
  19. 1 point
    Roster is up max McCormick is the biggest surprise. Really surprised no Bishop too.
  20. 1 point
    I hate the whole situation, Derailed. Losing John, losing the season, and debating whether a freakin' billionaire is being cheap or prudent... when our country's lost 130,000 people for no good reason, and their families couldn't even bid them farewell.
  21. 1 point
    Vantanen looks like he just wanted to immediately pretend that didn't just happen.
  22. 1 point
    It's not a rounding error when you multiply it across several years, and when you consider the cost if the other (reportedly) 17 other high-paid staff had not agreed to cuts. It's a lot of money. TD's a billionaire because he's made tough business decisions, and he clearly isnt about to start peeing that hard-earned wealth away. Nobody's going to stop watching Canes games because there's a different PBP guy, and he knows it. All he did was ask John to pitch in like (literally) everybody else, during a crisis with no end in sight, in order to keep his job. In John's case, the word is that he was to get paid by the game, which essentially means TD isn't going to pay him until there are games again. John refused. John loses his job. It's not trigonometry.
  23. 1 point
    Easy for you (and me) to say. It's not our money. The guy whose money it is, TD, has apparently decided--as many successful businesspeople do--that each of his ventures must stand or fall on its own, and that at this incredibly uncertain economic juncture, the best odds of making that happen with this venture come down to a decision between (1) keeping the best play-by-play man in the biz, or (2) remaining true to his promise of doing all he can to keep not just any hockey--like the crap PK and JR shoved down our throats for 10 straight years--but Stanley Cup contending hockey in Raleigh for the foreseeable future. I'll miss John. But if that's the choice TD has given himself, I want him choosing #2.
  24. 1 point
    I seem to have a vague recollection that the Canes won their last early game? Even if not, if results are based on past trends, playing against the Rags, forget about it.
  25. 1 point
    I'm watching a Preds playoff game and the crowd is a big part. Playoff hockey with no crowd, and no Forslund is probably better than nothing, but not by much.
  26. 1 point
    Again, losing Forslund would be a blow, but it's business. I've talked with both him and Tripp a few times over the years. They are both very approachable, and love the game and the team.
  27. 1 point
    I'll go in the bubble. How much does it pay?
  28. 1 point
    From the ensemble at XM this morning... Latest leak/rumors about the schedule format for the first set of games (play-in and seeding): - 3 games per day, per hub, so 6 games per day - Local times: 12 noon, 4pm, 8pm - Noon and 8pm games are play-in round (unlimited overtime possible) - 4 pm game is seeding game (limited to end in shootout) - Probably play every other day (the math works perfectly for that) - Likely that the East plays in the East, the West in the West Since the Canes play the Rags, expect most of them to be 8 pm games. Ratings, ratings, ratings.
  29. 1 point
    It is amazing that Doc Emrick is only making 500k. I don't know if any sport has as good of an announcer has Doc. You are right if John is making $350k in a small market like Raleigh all I can say is good for him. However he really can't expect the owner under the current nightmare that we are in to pay up based on past revenues etc. The future right now for teams financial bottom lines does not look good. There is nothing that tells me that it is going to get any better for the next 1-2-maybe 3 years. Everyone has lost a lot of money and after all Dundon has to make a business decision .... period. I have met John Forslund a couple of times through the years. What a class act. I have no clue what the issues are but I would hope that he reconsiders and at least makes a deal that takes him to a place where we can get back to "normal". Right now nothing looks normal......Nothing !!
  30. 1 point
    "Oh Heavens, I've just been handed the Syracuse roster. They've actually brought back just for this one game some very famous names.. led by someone we all know, Tim "Dr. Hook" McCracken!"
  31. 1 point
    It is going to become increasingly interesting to see which of these several high upside guys pops up and breaks out. We have a lot of candidates for that. I remain hopeful that we can lure Drury away from Harvard sooner than later. Once a guy finishes his junior year, waiting one more year to call your shot is pretty tempting. Just ask another Harvard grad Adam Fox. Drury's numbers at Harvard have been impressive, especially for a two way guy. We need, IMO to get Jake Bean on the big club next year. We will need to move out some contract for that, cough*Gardiner*cough. McKeown is just in the wrong system. That is a guy who really should move on if he can to a team that doesn't have one of the deepest defenses and prospects. I feel bad for him, he deserves a shot, but just hard to see him getting it here.
  32. 1 point
  33. 1 point
    This is how rumors start.
  34. 1 point
    It definitely could get around our immunity by mutating (influenza does it every year). But has that actually happened? I guess my point is that these studies are measuring surrogate markers. As a clinician I am only somewhat interested in that. I'm interested in thing that matter clinically. Throughout my career I've been told amazingly detailed pathophysiological mechanisms for why this thing or that thing works so well, only to find out later that the thing doesn't, in fact work at all. This returns my logic stream back to simple face validity quite often. Does this thing these experts are telling me make any sense in the context of the actual world? If not, I don't need to come up with an equally erudite detailed mechanism for why the thing doesn't work, I just need to show that it doesn't work, or make sense. One example of hundreds, is that a group of pediatricians discovered that some infant girls with fever and obvious upper respiratory infections had signs of urinary tract infections in their urine samples. They pushed for massive urine testing in all girls with fever even if they had an obvious cold as the source of their fevers, as up to 5% of them might have concomitant bladder infections and needed antibiotics. They kept pushing this, even though it was not really validated by other groups. Still, it got into the practice of pediatrics for a good while. It was pointed out (actually by the guy who reviewed that remdeslevir study for EM rap recently, Jerry Hoffman), that if this was true, then there would be millions of these infections every year that had previously almost all been untreated. Yet almost every infant got better with no treatment for decades. If this were a clinically important UTI, then a massive number of infant girls with colds would not get better, and would get sicker and sicker and even develop permanent kidney damage, none of which happened to essentially anyone. Maybe they were finding an inflammatory reaction. Maybe it was a study error. Maybe it was a transient bacterial infection that kids almost universally clear. Maybe...something else. To me it didn't matter. It could not be important clinically, so I stopped worrying about it. Anyways, that's the point I'm making about the antibody test (I know you know it, but I'm just restating it for others). The only thing that matters is this: if you are exposed and make antibodies, can you later still develop the actual disease or even become a carrier? If not? Doesn't matter in terms of herd immunity whether you can detect antibodies. At least not in a negative way. Ironically, it could actually be a good thing. If you make antibodies that are protective even after you can't measure them, then there could be even more people out there who have immunity but test negative for the antibodies. Yes, it's head spinning. But there are three ways out of this short of a very unlikely antiviral cure: Herd immunity, vaccine, or major mutational shift to a benign disease. And that last one is relative to your mutation point. Apparently there are mutations of this virus, and one is predominate. Historically viruses mutate to less virulent strains (presumably to allow for more spread by not killing the host). The death rate is coming down, maybe in part to that. BTW way back when the media and experts were quoting 2% mortality across the board and up to 6% in some articles in prominent media, I predicted that the actual death rate had to be under 1% and likely less than .6%. It's becoming even lower than that as testing of a more representative swath of the population grows, and things tighten up around elderly people (and possibly a less virulent strain of the virus). Since around May 1 the confirmed cases per day moved up from 80K to 650K worldwide. The daily confirmed death rate has gone down from 6.5K to 3.7K world wide. So the total daily cases move up would have predicted 53,000 daily deaths with this massive new outbreak, instead there are only 3,700 worldwide.
  35. 1 point
    Wow, kicking a player out for the duration doesn't surprise me but taking a draft pick from the team does show how serious they are about maintaining the bubble. edit: to me this kinda evokes the repercussions of Werner Ziegler breaking the bubble in Better Call Saul. But by making the consequences crystal clear up front the NHL should just about eliminate violations.
  36. 1 point
    I will admit to this bias. I really enjoy listening to John call our games and I'd be truly bummed if he left. I get it if he leaves for greener pastures, I get it if he's making a power move on TD and TD doesn't have it. But I don't get it if he's pushing back against a pay cut. I'm not going to stop watching if he leaves. But I will enjoy it less. I will miss his calls and his quirky chemistry with Tripp. I will miss his dry humor. I will miss his sincere bond with this team and the area. I kept watching this team even when it mediocre at best, but that doesn't mean it was as good as it could have been. Same with a new broadcaster. For me, watching this team in the darker days was also more palatable because John was there. If he does go, I hope we get someone good, and while I personally like Shaya, if he happens the drop off will be pretty big from Forslund. Even if we find a technically good game caller who is not Shaya, it's hard to imagine him bringing the chemistry and the ties to the area. Whatever the real deal is behind the scenes, I think I'd miss him more than almost any player and I really hope he stays. So TD and Forslund: work it out please!
  37. 1 point
    I might be able to help on that front. From Dictionary .com: WHAT DOES ALTERNATIVE FACTS MEAN? Alternative facts have been called many things: falsehoods, untruths, delusions. A fact is something that actually exists—what we would call “reality” or “truth.” An alternative is one of the choices in a set of given options; typically the options are opposites of each other. So to talk about alternative facts is to talk about the opposite of reality (which is delusion), or the opposite of truth (which is untruth). And from Wikipedia: "Alternative facts" was a phrase used by U.S. Counselor to the President Kellyanne Conway during a Meet the Press interview on January 22, 2017, in which she defended White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's false statement about the attendance numbers of Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States. edit: to summarize the concept with a picture:
  38. 1 point
    I am completely bored and lately have been catching some old hockey games on FSS. Some of the games I don't remember the outcome so it's almost like watching a current game. But I must say that the one thing that I enjoy just as much is the bantering ( I guess that would be a nice word for it) between remkin and top-shelf-1. You guys are what keep this forum active. Thanks for the entertainment. I really have no clue who is right and who is wrong and often times it really does not matter. You know what they say about opinions. Facts in today's social media world are even harder to come by. We have this new verbiage today.....alternative facts.....whatever that means. So anyway keep the information coming because being retired and living a pretty laid back life (for now because I have to due to covid-19) I really enjoy reading this forum. Y'all stay safe and remember.....In the final analysis we are all just doing the best we can!!
  39. 1 point
    If Forslund leaves I'm not just "over it". That's all I have to say about that.
  40. 1 point
    Losing Forslund would be a major kick in the cods. He is the soundtrack for Canes hockey. I understand business, and that there are two sides to everything. Dundon may not be able to match the national dollars available. Sucks major
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