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top-shelf-1

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Everything posted by top-shelf-1

  1. I didn't mean to offend, xray. I just put myself in the shoes of people in both those places (both of which I've visited more than once). The outbreak in the northeast was due in no small part to people from the most-affected countries at the time flying into the region's three busiest international airports. Now people who have spent several weeks training in what is currently the most affected country, where cases are still spiking, are heading to a country that has been largely spared. I'm sorry if noting the parallels harshed your mellow, but now more than ever, and whether we like it or not, reality is for people who can't handle drugs.
  2. Here's hoping cooler heads prevail once seasons and playoffs happen like they always have. Until then, NBC will likely be John's primary employer. I can't help but wonder how Torontonians and Edmontonians feel about an influx of ~480 players and staff coming to each of their cities from the worst-affected country on the planet.
  3. I hate the whole situation, Derailed. Losing John, losing the season, and debating whether a freakin' billionaire is being cheap or prudent... when our country's lost 130,000 people for no good reason, and their families couldn't even bid them farewell.
  4. It's not a rounding error when you multiply it across several years, and when you consider the cost if the other (reportedly) 17 other high-paid staff had not agreed to cuts. It's a lot of money. TD's a billionaire because he's made tough business decisions, and he clearly isnt about to start peeing that hard-earned wealth away. Nobody's going to stop watching Canes games because there's a different PBP guy, and he knows it. All he did was ask John to pitch in like (literally) everybody else, during a crisis with no end in sight, in order to keep his job. In John's case, the word is that he was to get paid by the game, which essentially means TD isn't going to pay him until there are games again. John refused. John loses his job. It's not trigonometry.
  5. Easy for you (and me) to say. It's not our money. The guy whose money it is, TD, has apparently decided--as many successful businesspeople do--that each of his ventures must stand or fall on its own, and that at this incredibly uncertain economic juncture, the best odds of making that happen with this venture come down to a decision between (1) keeping the best play-by-play man in the biz, or (2) remaining true to his promise of doing all he can to keep not just any hockey--like the crap PK and JR shoved down our throats for 10 straight years--but Stanley Cup contending hockey in Raleigh for the foreseeable future. I'll miss John. But if that's the choice TD has given himself, I want him choosing #2.
  6. Beautifully said, I agree on all counts. I just think John is trying to thread a needle that never has been. In a traditional market with an established owner it would probably work, but I think Dundon believes that winning cures all fan complaints, and we can't say he didn't warn us that the place he'd be spending money to make that happen is on the ice.
  7. Now THAT'S a league with an asterisk I'd watch, 24/7: all former NHLers, all over 35, and NO PENALTIES.
  8. It's one of the first things I worried about when the deal was announced, and it's a valid concern. Anybody who thinks PK would think twice about making a deal with the devil to save his own bacon hasn't watched how he ran this business or CompuServe.
  9. It wasn't meant condescendingly at all, Rem. I sincerely don't think you fully comprehend that in those (top five, let alone national broadcast) markets, numbers are just that: numbers. They have almost zero meaning. We're not talking about Bob Costas ($7 million) or Steven A. Smith ($8-10 million). When you're dealing in the kind of money those markets are, and charging the ad rates they are, you simply can't equate that (un)reality to this (all too real) one. Doc Emrick is believed to make "only" $500k. So, if John is indeed making $350K in Raleigh (and granted, we don't know), AND has the freedom to pad that during the year and throughout the playoffs, is he really "undervalued"? It's easy for fans to say "Just pay the man, he's the best." But as an owner of a small market team, you need to know when to say, "If he's that good, and that's his price, somebody else is gonna have to pay it." And a global pandemic with no prospects for gate or broadcast revenue are pretty compelling reasons to do it. This much we can agree on, Rem: We're gonna have to disagree.
  10. His contract has expired, he has refused a deal, and he has told the world he wants one. That is the definition of holding out. There are often no games going on when players do the same thing, and it is regularly called "holding out." I don't think that you do. Market size has always determined broadcaster pay. Sportscasters want to work in the top 5 markets for the same reasons DJs and news anchors and talk show hosts do: to make the most money. All Dundon has done is tell John that he's going to have to do that as well if he wants a better deal than TD is offering him. Still, that money comes at a price, and John knows it: relocation sure, but ridiculous pressure as well. Every word, every sentence, is scrutinized. John wants the best of both (make that all three) worlds: the money, the lower pressure of a smaller market, and let's not forget something he has enjoyed for years now, the ability to miss Canes' games so he can make still more money doing national broadcasts. And he wants all of this at a time when it is completely conceivable that he will not work (for the Canes, at least) for a year. I say for the Canes at least, because there's another consideration in the mix, which has almost surely come up at the negotiating table: If the NHL playoff plan actually comes off, it is entirely possible the telecasts will be called by a pool of maybe three PBP guys, to limit the number of people inside the bubble. And since Doc is pretty much the definition of a high-risk individual, I would think he would not be in there, except maybe for the Final. JF would surely be among the pool of those doing the national calls. And meanwhile, Dundon has to be thinking, "And he's still cashing checks from me?" But all of that aside, Dundon has made his offer (which apparently requires John to give him a discount). John has said, "If that's the best you can do, I'm out," and that's his right. It's a game of chicken, but we already have ample evidence (Chuck, Francis, and any number of players) that Dundon is more than willing to call any bluff. So neither John nor the fans should be surprised if he does it this time, too.
  11. Sounds about right to me. And don't forget: Summers off. Oh yeah, and permission to work for the network, and the additional cha-ching that brings.
  12. And my point is that it's not about greed. It's about timing and optics, and that's why the numbers don't make any difference. Here's what we absolutely know: Forslund is holding out, and he's doing it when it's entirely possible he will not even work for the entire duration of his new contract's first year. How would you think about this Rem, if it were a player in a similar situation: His contract has expired. He is out with a long-term injury which could prevent his return for the new season. And he's holding out, when he should be thankful to get an offer at all. In John's case the optics are worse (to me at least), especially if the reports that it's all about a negotiation are right--because he's essentially trying to guilt TD with the "I really wanna stay here" crap. If he really wanted to stay, he'd accept that (1) this is not Boston or Montreal, where the arena is filled every night, and (2) these are especially unique times. Instead, he went public and sang the blues--at a time of unprecedented unemployment and worldwide economic uncertainty, when regular people are lucky to be working at all. Not a good look, Johnny.
  13. I also said all this, on this very thread: But clearly cherry picking is the only way you can make your point, Rem... whatever it is.
  14. One more thing. Pretend you are TD, then read your above quote. Does it convince you that you must keep John Forslund? All due respect blue, and I mean that. But if they're winning you're watching, same as me. And if they're losing, for that matter, or you wouldn't have stuck it out here (same as me) while the team foundered from 2006 until JR finally sold. John leaving is sad, no question about it. But it's his choice to make, and if he does, I'm already over it.
  15. My answer to your question is the same, I'll wager, as your answer will be to mine: Where did you read what you assert in the second sentence? Neither of us knows. That's why they are private negotiations. But I promise you this: Staal's agent started at the top end because he was sure his boy was the next Cindy, and JR and PK thought they'd found the promised land. If they just signed their Conn Smythe keeper and someone they could reasonably call their franchise winger center, and hang a C on him, complementary players would line up to take below-market contracts for the rush of playing in that burgeoning hockey hotbed: Raleigh, NC. They'd found the promised land, alright: Dreamland. How'd that work out? The way the Forslund is managing this negotiation absolutely has parallels. Even if he only wants his same pay as last year, management clearly went to all top employees and asked for help due to the revenue shortfall and the uncertainty the pandemic has brought. Out in the real world, who wouldn't have jumped at that? Or for that matter, who in hockey world wouldn't? Only the 71-year-old Rick Dudley, and Johnny (if the reports are accurate)--probably because he knows he has options. I have said numerous times that his work is without peer in all of hockey. But contract negotiations are always always always tied to the fiscal realities facing both sides, so it's disingenuous at best for John to refuse to do his bit and then sing the blues that he "has to" leave. He doesn't have to at all. He is choosing to, because he has apparently gotten used to a certain standard of living and wants it to continue, despite the economic uncertainties of these heretofore unseen times. All the vitriol directed at TD on this board is laughable. He is running this business just like every other (successful) business leader does in unprecedented times: to survive. If John doesn't want to pitch in like others, that is absolutely his prerogative--Just as it was Eric's to require (and/or JR/PK's cluelessness to give him) a salary this market could not sustain.
  16. I know you think that matters. It doesn't. HE'S NOT WORKING.
  17. Sorry, but all business decisions have to also be considerate of the times. Forslund holding out under the current reality is the epitome of bad, and much as I hate to say it, selfish, decision-making on his part. "I want to work in Carolina, but I want big-time pay... regardless of whether I'm working." Sounds like something Eric Staal would say.
  18. And when he could have helped most--and had been given carte blanche to do so--he didn't. I still wonder what might have happened in 2018 if we'd he'd signed Mraz instead of letting the Flyers.
  19. Fixed that for you. The irony: he had the job as long as he did. "BRING BACK THE RED LINE... AND GET OFF MY LAWN!!!"
  20. We don't always agree, gocanes, but we do on all the above. It is. Unfortunately, by going public, John has increased has chances of losing. Chuck tried it too, and that was when there was actual hockey in the offing. And lost. Until any one of us has skin in the game--and I'm talking about a whole lot more skin than buying a ticket, season or otherwise--the Canes are TD's cow. Buying it allows him to milk it any way he wants. And compared to the previous owner, I'll take this guy's teat-pulling every. Freakin'. Time.
  21. Amen to that, but I'm talkin' on TV. The puck smashing through ice, the music, the two shadowy players... just old and tired. How's everything in Europe?
  22. I hear ya, but the employment numbers back then were not hit on a scale like this. Unemployment peaked at 9.9 percent. We've already seen "official" numbers over 14% with government economists suggesting it's over 16. Yet John expects his full pay, and apparently a raise, when he hasn't worked since March and we don't know when there will even be another full season. I gotta tell ya, if I'm Dundon, I'm doing the exact same thing, thanking him for his service and wishing him good luck. People are lucky to be working at all right now. Not the time to demand the same or a higher contract for a job you're not even doing.
  23. I just hope they change the break music and graphics. They're 15+ years old and look (and sound) like it.
  24. Forslund is the best in the business, and it's not even close. Between him and Gene Hart, I feel fortunate to have heard my two favorite teams win three Stanley Cups through their vocal artistry. But like it or not, this comes with the broadcasting turf, and every broadcaster knows it when they go into it. How many people these days work for the same company for 20+ years in any industry, let alone in that one? IMO--and I'm not disparaging it, because it is his choice to make--John is playing both ends against the middle. He learned TD's ceiling last year, and he thinks it's too low. By going public, he is hoping fan pressure will change the number. It won't, but it especially won't when it is anybody's guess when he'll even work again. He says he'd prefer to stay here--but it's contingent, apparently, on getting money that is more typically paid those doing his job in larger markets. Again, it's John's right to play his cards this way. But stop following the Canes because they change the play-by-play guy? If others are willing to give up Canes hockey over that--well, it's their right too, I suppose. But I'm a lot more interested in what's happening on the ice than in the broadcast booth. I don't care if they let Tripp (try to) call the games. I'd just turn down the volume, turn up Spotify, and keep right on watching.
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