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Posts posted by top-shelf-1

  1. 10 hours ago, beboplar said:

    Let me tell you something.  If two people walked down the street side by side, and I mean today, wearing the Canes' logo and the Whalers' logo, unless you were walking down a street somewhere in the Carolinas more fans would recognize the Whalers' logo. 

    Yeah. And LOGOS play the games. Whatever, dude.


    When ownership changes and the team leaves town, sorry--NOT THE SAME TEAM ANYMORE.


    And here's another difference: Regular season records.

    Whale 815-945-215 Trips to finals: zip. Cups: zilch.

    Canes 753-688-86-161 (OT) Trips to final: two. Cups: one.


    Sure look like two different teams to me.


    Any. Freakin'. Questions. ?.

    • Like 1

  2. 13 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

    That's my dilemma rem, I'd love to get him in the friendly Finnish confines of PNC arena with several of his countrymen to ease him on the team, but just cannot see how to fit him in?

    This club is loaded with wingers and needs cap space, so Nino would be at the top of my list to move for Puljujarvi. He was the right acquisition at the the right time, but Edmonton's roster, UFA wise, is a disaster area, with (count 'em) SEVEN guys going UFA after this year. Nino is under contract through 21-22. If they move Gagner, the Oil would create enough space to pay Nino.


    All of that being said, I don't know if we need the distraction of the Puljujarvi Project--but Aho and TT's presence would surely help him settle in, I'd think.

    • Like 1

  3. 8 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

    Cause they are not the Hatford Whalers, that team is gone. This is the Carolina Hurricanes they wear red white and black not white blue and green. Whalers are no more the Canes are here

    Agreed. Since PK bought the Whale, Jimmy had been his GM. The GMs that ruled under the old ownership were of no consequence to this franchise's trajectory since PK has owned it.

  4. 2 hours ago, LostInALostWorld said:

    Top I have no idea what field you work in but in my world employment contracts are common and not just for "C suiters". Especially true when luring talent and having them relocate. I had employees from salespeople to mid level ops who I had under contract. Some I wanted signed; others who would only work if signed. When investment bankers bought my company they insisted on contracts from some employees just as I had. I also advised some folks to get iron-clad contracts if they were staying. Not much trust nor loyalty between workers and mgmt/ownership these days.


    And I have no idea how you are mixing right-to-work laws with contracts. Try firing someone with a written contract and then not paying up and/or otherwise abiding to the terms written in such contract. That's what happens when GMs get fired. They sure as hell get paid under the conditions and duration of their contract unless they agree to some negotiated settlement.


    Oh, and just last month I reviewed an employment contract my 25 yr. old niece in marketing was offered when accepting a new job in NYC. Sure isn't a C level employee I can tell you that.

    The use of employment contracts is as individual as the ownership and boards of every company, and I can assure you that the vast majority of American managers and workers more broadly don't have them.


    As for "mixing" right-to-work laws, I never said a thing about them. I said "at will" employment. They're two different things. Right-to-work states do not require union membership as terms of employment. At-will, per the link, means:



    [...] when an employee works for an employer without a written contract that sets forth the terms of the employment relationship.  This is the situation for the vast majority of employment relationships.


    I'm glad your niece has a contract, but it is an exception, not the rule... just as the fact that you, as an owner, were willing to give employees contracts didn't make that common either. Clearly Dundon didn't use them in his prior companies:



    "I have found this weird since I got into the hockey business that the business people all have contracts. I never had contracts with the people that worked for me."


    Full story here. But let's get back to the topic at hand, shall we?


    Waddell is currently without a contract, and as such is an at-will employee in NC. Until he is back under an agreement, he can be summarily let go, without cause--and even if/when he is re-signed, whether he is owed one red cent is entirely dependent on what's in his particular agreement, under the section "Termination of employment."  

  5. 6 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

    Maybe that’s why Dundon doesn’t like to give them out. I also worry that over time, Dundon’s approach may cause difficulty bringing in talented managers and coaches.

    I'll still take Dundon's hands-on proactivity over PK's fiddling while Rome burns (oh wait, it's just PK's cigar) eight days a week.

  6. 6 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

    What I said was the mass exodus was concerning, especially since I don’t see a new generation of hockey experienced managers coming in to replace those who are leaving.

    Then you need to spend some time on the site's management page, looking up the guys we've got. Dudley has assistant GM experience, and the other guys I listed have paid their dues. Trust the process.

  7. 4 hours ago, OBXer said:

    Most General Managers, CEO, Company Presidents, etc have contracts. Slice it anyway you want this is just foolish

    Easy for those of us without any skin in the game to call it foolish. (By the way, GMs not so much; C-suiters, yeah. But it remains beside the point.)


    TD is trying to get the best deal he can by encouraging Don to do so with a competitor. It happens in Real Business every day of the week. Employees try to leverage offers into pay increases. I have a brother in law that has increased his salary over 150 percent in the last three years doing the same thing.


    So, if Don comes back and says, "They're offering me x," the ball is in TD's court at that point, and as owner, he gets to decide if he wants to match--because he's paying the cost, as BB King sang, to be the boss.


    This same process is just part of doing business. In fact, one of the best management books ever written suggests that managers who think they are underpaid resign, then go to HR and apply for the job again. If they're right, they'll get it back. If not, they won't. This is exactly what TD is allowing to play out, he's just using the Wild to set the price--or, if they don't make Don an offer, to confirm to Don that he's worth what Tom is offering. It worked perfectly with Aho, Mrazek, and McGinn. No reason to think it won't, one way or another, with DW. Worst case, he leaves, whether to Minny or elsewhere, and we elevate Dudley. So what?


    I'm just not seeing the downside to running this business like any other business.

  8. 19 minutes ago, Bonivan said:

    Don't GMs and coaches are being paid until contract expiration even if they are fired?

    If it's negotiated into the contract, yes (i.e., a severance clause). But it wouldn't surprise me if Dundon does away with those, too.

  9. 3 hours ago, Bonivan said:

    The boss could promise you whatever he wants and may say (or actually be) that he is your friend but unless contract is signed you have nothing.

    Not true, sorry. Employment contracts are the exception in every field--except sports--except at the C-Suite level, and Waddell is not a C-suiter. On top of which, NC is an at-will employment state, rendering contracts here meaningless anyway. The only thing requiring Waddell get a contract is the NHL's rules that the GM must have one. EDIT TO ADD: posted this before seeing Legend's post re at-will. Sorry to repeat.


    Further, your logic that a contract guarantees anything doesn't hold. Owners fire GMs summarily all the time. Finally, if Waddell actually does have nothing after all his years in the league, I wouldn't want him managing my rowboat, let alone my hockey team.

  10. 19 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

    Should Waddell actually leave, I think that will be pretty much a clean sweep of everyone on the management side who was in place when Dundon bought majority interest in the team. Some turnover was inevitable, but not everyone. It’s concerning to me, but time will tell.

    On one level, BDC, I get what you're saying, and why you're worried. On another though, your concern is indefensible, and I don't choose that word lightly or to provoke you. Let me explain what I mean (warning: Rem-length post to follow :blink:).


    As you have assessed what is happening, I wonder if you're yet put yourself in Dundon's place. In case you haven't, consider:


    You've just bought a franchise which, other than falling pretty much back-asswards into a Cup a decade ago, has been a chronic underachiever for the vast majority of 25 years under the guy you bought it from. When you took over, the guy in the GM's chair refused to make deadline deals that might have reversed that trend, despite you telling him you'd pony up the cash. So you showed him the door. We can argue about how classily it was done, but former franchise player or not, what matters in Real Business is "What have you done for me lately?" In terms of success at the level of the org where he was charged with producing it (and yes, despite some great draft moves), the answer in Ronnie's case was an unqualified "zilch."


    (Digression: Whether Ronnie learned his passive-at-the-deadline approach from JR or not--because it may have been on El Cheapo [PK], JR nonetheless abandoned [or was forced to walk the plank of] the ship that he navigated into mediocrity--at the exact moment he realized PK was serious about selling. We'll never know which [abandoned or plank] for sure, but knowing that PK doesn't have a proactive managerial bone in his body [outside of full-on retreat, i.e., fleeing the franchise's former home in the middle of the night], my money is on JR deciding to get out while the gittin' was good. In other words, before he'd have to answer to a new sheriff, who might actually force him to defend his hare-brained moves. Which, it's turned out, is exactly the kind of sheriff TD happens to be. End of digression.)


    So Ronnie is shown the door, and TD doesn't mince words: He's not going pay people just because they're hockey guys. People are going to have to earn their keep. Which is perfectly reasonable, given that neither of the last two GMs--the guys at the top of the hockey operations ladder--had, over the prior decade. Waddell quickly makes it extremely clear that he doesn't want the job, but TD twists his arm into taking it--and lo and behold, DW does a great job, and is nominated as GM of the year.


    Now remember, you're looking at things from TD's perspective.


    You tell DW: "You have a home here. We'll figure out the contract. If I wanted to fire you, you'd have known a year ago. But if you want to check out other pastures, that is your right and I encourage you to do it." That is how highly successful managers all over the Real Business landscape behave, and TD, like his also-successful-prior-to-sports-ownership buddy, Mark Cuban, is clearly trying to bring that same ethos to an industry sorely in need of it. And he pretty much says so, in just that many words.


    So, what's happening now--whether Waddell's ask is too big for TD's liking (doubtful), or DW, as you suggest, is being "allowed" to leave, as the last vestige of the old management group (also doubtful)--really doesn't matter. TD has been very clear from Day One that he is going to run things differently.


    So what is happening? Here's my belief.


    By staying with the org, DW tacitly accepted TD's approach... and guess what? IT WORKED. But if DW thinks that one year of success should qualify him as GM for life (remember, he's 60 years old), he needs to see that TD is telling him exactly what he told the last guy in the org who tried to parlay a good year into a big contract: "Go ahead, see what else is out there." (I refer, of course, to one Petr Mrazek.)


    TD said he'd do things differently, and he is. But he never said he wouldn't pay market rate. Per Luke's (silly little) blog post, that's what the hockey world mocked him as doing, but what he's said all along is that he's not going to pay GMs (or anybody else) like other teams do. That may seem like the same thing (it clearly does to Clueless Luke) but in fact, it's very different. TD is saying, "Just because you're a hockey guy and other owners have all agreed to ask 'how high?' whenever their hockey-guy GM tells them to jump doesn't mean I'm going to."


    TD has said any number of times that he intends to spend money on the guys who actually go out and play the games. Luke can call the current Canes front office dysfunctional all he wants--some guys will write anything to get eyeballs in the off-season, and Luke has proved summer in and summer out to be one of them. But just because that earns him his keep with some newspaper company doesn't give him prescience with me. If Luke thinks this Canes FO, which got the team to the dance in its first full year, is so dysfunctional, exactly what the hell would he call the one that preceded it, which failed to do so for eight straight years?


    When Real Businesses which have failed chronically are bought, the entire management team is very often let go, and overnight. If the Canes had been behaving more like a Real Business instead of buying into the absolute hokum that "sports is different" over the last decade, PK might still be the owner, and he might have more than one Cup to show for his quarter century in this league. If I were TD, that's sure how I'd look at it, as I think any fresh set of eyes that has been crazy successful in Real Business would.


    So he set out to cut through the excuses and BS by telling everyone, "Prove that you deserve to be here." And he has freed everyone--including his goalie, his star of the future, and his heart-and-soul guy (McGinn)--to explore their options. And the result in each of those cases? Right: They came back, and Dundon paid them what the market (or a market mechanism, in McGinn's case) said they are worth, totally debunking the whole "He's not willing to pay market rate" BS that Luke and others, even now, continue to spread.


    All of which indicates to me that the DW situation will play out one of three ways:


    - The Wild make an offer that TD thinks is fair, he matches it, and we're good to go.


    - The Wild hire Guerin (or another), and DW re-ups with a nice raise over what he got last year, but nothing ridiculous. And again, we're good to go.




    - The Wild make an offer that TD thinks is unfair, shakes DW's hand and wishes him luck, and elevates the next cowboy up, likely Dudley, to GM.


    If scenario three plays out, everybody else moves up a rung, too (just like a Real Business). So Krepelka gets Senior VP Hockey Ops, Yorke is his Junior, and we bring in (or bring up from CLT) someone for the Player Personnel job.


    (Digression: I'm not as convinced as others here that Tulsky, a total analytics guy with a BA and 12 years in chemistry, and no sports management credential, isn't best suited to exactly what he's doing, which he also seems to love to no end. Meanwhile, the hockey world is teeming with guys who'd love the player personnel job with this org, given what we've got in the NHL and on the farm.)


    I'll say it one last time: TD said he'd run this org like a Real Business, and that's exactly what he's doing. I'm fine with it, because we've got 25 years of PK to prove that his way doesn't work.


    (Sorry this was so long. It was lot more fun than what I'm supposed to be doing!)

    • Like 2

  11. 5 hours ago, Kyrule said:

    There is an article on NHL.com titled:


    Waddell ‘not going anywhere’ as Hurricanes GM, owner says.


    It gives a little more insight into the whole thing. Dundon just does things differently, and I’m not worried about it.


    From what I understand Minnesota is speaking with a lot of different potential GM’s, including a guy like Chiarelli. It has been noted that Minnesota likely has no intention of hiring him, but they are trying to get as much input/different  perspectives as possible. Just goes to show how listless the Wild are right now, which is the usual result when the owner, GM, and others all have differing opinions about where the team is heading.

    There's something in the Minny culture that's not right. I love it there (for about three months a year), but there's something Nordic at play that effs up all their sports franchises. 

    • Like 1

  12. On 8/6/2019 at 12:45 PM, remkin said:
    • According to the NHL Network, Sebastian Aho is considered the 14th best center in the league:

    The NHL Network is the NHL's PR arm. They have a vested interest in amping up the fans and jacking up the stars of tomorrow. I'm not saying SeaBass isn't good. I am saying that everything on the NHL Network is pure PR first, and objectivity isn't even a consideration.

  13. I think he comes back, and don't see the downside that others do in his delay--or what quite possibly is being marketed as a delay. Season ticket holders who intended to re-up already have, and the org's chances of selling those on the fence improve the closer to the start of the season we are when he announces he'll be back.


    If he is genuinely questioning whether he has another season and playoff run in him, the team could promise him fewer minutes per night; he averaged 17.5 per game last year. But I don't see him accepting that. Real leaders want to lead, and that means doing whatever the coach asks. If we know nothing else about him, we know JW's a real leader. So if he doesn't come back, it's sure to be because he doesn't think he can do "whatever it takes" for another full season and playoff run.

  14. 6 hours ago, remkin said:

    This should make training camp interesting.

    Most interesting in years.


    Brindy prefers to have guys training because the guy eats breakfast lunch and dinner on a freakin' stationary bike; it's just what he does. But winning builds winners like weights and bikes can't, and he knows that. In an org which, for the last decade, got out of the gate like a tortoise and got just relevant enough by February to lose draft position--then routinely crashed and burned (preferably in April), training is fine--but learning to win as a group and making it the expectation should be the goal. That mindset develops on the ice, not in the training room.

    • Like 1

  15. 4 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

    My $$ is on Rod putting in a good word for him.  Maybe he can bring Rosey back too?  (Pause for primal screams from other posters). ;)

    You don't need no fancy app to make Rosie look old. Rosie is old.

    • Like 1

  16. 3 hours ago, remkin said:

    Necas. Almost any other year he'd be nearly a lock to make the team. He did enough in the AHL to give him an inside track. His .81 ppg was essentially tied for second on the team. He was +20, good for fourth on the team, both as a rookie. He has elite speed and can make plays at speed. At times in the playoffs he looked to be a clear level above AHL talent. He was called out many times by the announcers in the playoffs. He has had a year to adjust to the smaller N American ice space.


    However, we are deeper than any time in just about forever going into the season. This is a good thing overall. Necas, on paper, only has a track to make the team if there is an injury, a trade, or J Williams retires. And if he does not make the team out of camp, that is not the end of the world.


    A few thoughts on Necas and making the Canes:


    I expect Necas to improve in the offseason. Top players of his age usually do. It is possible that Necas looks SO good in camp that it is very hard to deny him a slot. His talent and speed could be that evident. 


    I'm not sure if this is a future ppg NHL player, but I bet he's a future 60-70 point player. 


    He's been mentioned by Waddell as likely making the team, but that was before we added Haula and Dzingle.

    He is the most talented guy for the #9 slot if we want to roll 3 high-end scoring lines. McGinn and Martinook, have both shown they can  be respectable third line wingers, and IMO Foegele will end up ahead of both of them for that slot. But Necas has potential right now that is higher than all 3 of them. 


    Even if Necas does not make the team out of camp, Necas needs to get some NHL games this year. Ideally quite a few of them. Get his NHL rookie season under his belt.


    If Necas goes back to the AHL one thing he could do is work on playing center, where he's played his entire career outside of last year. 


    If Williams does not come back, and there are no further trades, I'd bet a lot Necas makes the team.


    In the end, right now, if J Williams comes back, Necas will have a very hard time unless he blows doors off, or there is a key injury. But he should be the first guy up any time there is any forward injury, and we should try to get him as many NHL games as we can. 

    I know you're super high on Necas, Rem, and in many areas he seems to have the tools, but so did Zykov. I know that's comparing apples to oranges speed wise, but Zyke nonetheless made finding the twine look like child's play in the A, but couldn't translate it to The Show.


    Necas is most def not slow, but he got tossed around like a rag doll in his few NHL games last year. I'm not saying that will derail his career or that he can't learn enough about leverage to have a good and potentially great career. What I am saying is that somebody who looks elite in the lowest-grade pro league in Europe is likely to take a lot longer to make the NHL cut than a guy like Aho, who absolutely killed it in one of the best Euro leagues--and still went back there for another year after we drafted him.


    If Martin projects to center, you're right that another year in CLT would do him good, and not just for the experience: at this point centers in our system pretty much have to take a number. I agree that he could make the team sooner as a W, but I think our system lends itself less and less to lightweights on the outside not named Teuvo (who is slick enough that it doesn't matter). Maybe Necas' stick skills could allow him to be TT2, but the question is how soon we'll need/want another one.


  17. 1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

    interesting list there .  so they dont see necas making the line up ?

    As Lake noted and GC expanded upon upthread, Necas will be expansion exempt whether he makes the lineup this year or not. He'll only have two years of NHL service (assuming he makes the roster this year) because he did not play 10 games last year. 

    • Like 1

  18. 11 hours ago, Bonivan said:

    Maybe JW is not 100% sure that his production will not fall off the cliff due to age this year. Being a captain and posting 50 points us one thing, being captain and posting 10 point is another story. And I'm pretty sure JW will not be happy with the latter.

    JW is 100 percent enjoying his summer. He'll be back, book it.

  19. 17 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

    I get it if JW feels the grind of another 82 game schedule at his age is a tough ask on the body. I just dont see a guy who put up 53 pts the previous year packing it in. If he scored 10 pts, yeah time to go. He cant feel that he is taking a yute's spot as 53 pts is not attainable by many. Give us another year and see where we go with our new additions.

    When he came up with the Flyers I'd already been watching hockey for 30 years, so it was easy to see he'd be special. With over $50 million in career earnings, I doubt money is his motivator, and like you said, he's still producing like he did in his 20s. He loves it here, he is loved here, and if he can be the bridge between the last captain we had who led by example and the next, and maybe have a post-playing career with the org, I think he'll be tickled pink.

    • Like 2

  20. 20 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

    I'm pretty sure people who know him, athletes, and the team better then all of us have said the longer it takes the more it points to him returning.

    I think the logic is if he was planning on returning he would do it sooner so the team could plan for it.

    I think the team already knows, and has since, oh, the day after the season ended. They're just plotting a PR coup to sell more season tix.


    I think if the team had one dollar of cap space left, Justin would take it, and his only question would be, "How soon can we start practicing?"

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