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IrishIce

Sean Avery in the NY Times

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I still hate Avery, but I like the article. There is such a double standard when it comes to acceptable dress for men and women. I woman can wear a tank top, short skirts, and sandals to work. I would love to be able to wear shorts, a t-shirt, and sandals to work and get away with it.

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I still hate Avery, but I like the article. There is such a double standard when it comes to acceptable dress for men and women. I woman can wear a tank top, short skirts, and sandals to work. I would love to be able to wear shorts, a t-shirt, and sandals to work and get away with it.

Vent time for GSBG, coming up ...

This may sound odd, LGC72, since I'm a working woman, but I'm becoming an advocate of tossing business casual out the window, unless the workplace in question is a warehouse.

Why? Simple: At the last two offices I've worked as a clerical temp, fellow female employees have made a joke of the business-casual concept. I've seen them in heavily worn jeans, shorts, flip-flops, Crocs, filthy (and smelly :angry: ) tennis shoes, dirty and decaying T-shirts with the screen-printed logo now peeling from the shirt itself, and a whole host of other things best worn for doing your weekly laundry or taking out the trash. All the while, I've been making a fool of myself at work, showing up in skirts, knit dresses, dress blouses, knee-length black gauchos, and closed-toe mules with 1" heels. Go figure. <_< (It's worth mentioning that 1) air conditioning is abundant at both offices, and 2) at these offices a decade ago, "nice" casual -- dress slacks, skirts, and dresses -- would have been required for all employees, "temp" or "regular" alike.) Employee morale was lower than low at both sites, and while I'm not saying that formal attire equals warm-and-mushy employee feelings, it sure doesn't seem to help your office's level of professionalism if your staffers dress each day as if they're going to dig ditches.

It's true: This is what "business casual" now means in southern California. :( (Don't know if it applies in northern California -- San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose, where dress standards tend to be more traditional than in SoCal -- but everything I described above is now commonplace in plenty of offices in The O.C.)

Am I asking for a return to two-piece suits, nylons, and closed-toed pumps with 2 1/2" heels every day for my gender? Hardly. But would it truly hurt a few of my fellow SoCal ladies to dress with a teensy-weensy bit of professionalism, and leave the food-stained T's and stinkin'-rotten sneakers at home? <_<

Just sayin'.

(Bottom line: If Mssr. Avery wishes to dress like a frat boy, perhaps he ought to hang out with a few of 'em, at their frat houses.)

hctimo787: I'd rather amputate both legs at the hip than go into gender-bash mode. That's been how I've been the last 35 years.

Jan/GSBG

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Sigh. Jan, I just thought that this 'beyond casual / beyond good taste' version of so-called business casual was just some horrid abandonment of self respect and standards of decency by my new colleagues in KCMO. My fellow professionals in where I lived in NC did NOT dress this way - even when it was hotter than hell and the humidity made the heat index over 115!

Man, the gals here dress exactly as you describe, down to those flippin' flip-flops that used to be called thongs in my day, and were only seen on the pool deck or at the beach. The idea of being on city streets in those things, exposing one's own feet to the god-only-knows-what *edit* is on the streets.... aaaaaaack! Our judges regularly castigated my colleagues for COMING TO COURT in jeans and shirts cut down to where no one needs to see, and the damnable flip-flops! Are these people raised out in a pig field somewhere? And they would get all pissy and put-out when the judiciary would send out incendiary missives ordering that professionals dress the role in the court room. However, apparently illiteracy is a problem equally as concerning as the inability to dress for anything other than a beach outing.

At least the lawyers I still dress appropriately... everyone else seems to spend all their clothing allowance on Sketchers as a way of "dressing up". sigh.

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I guess since I'm still in college (well actually back for a second time).. this is so easy for me its not even funny cause they drill it into you at career fairs and whatnot.. Dress is a suit and tie, dress casual (or as we call it WORK casual, that makes the point) is a dress shirt (no tie) and khakis, or a polo shirt and khakis or a polo and slacks. Then casual is tshirts and jeans, but you usually arent allowed that, expect maybe at an informal job forum or something. Even for casual I wear a polo and jeans, unless i'm doing something that I'm gonna get wet or dirty and then they usually dont care if you come in in the ratty torn up tshirt, but that doesnt happen often at most places of work, certainly not in an office.. that might only fly when i worked at the fabric dying plant. Ive never worked in a place that required a shirt and tie (a bank, a law office etc) but most of the places i've worked have been either polo and khakis or polo and jeans.

Obviously the lines get blurred for women since those tanks and skirts and stuff that used to be condiered dressy (i wont say formal) are now standard wear for the mall or the beach... I'm not sure anyone makes dress suits for women anymore.. certainly no one wears them... although the lady i used to work with in a lab at school wore slacks and a blouse everyday and seemed very comfortable.. no need for a tshirt and jeans.

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