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happycamper

Penguins Rewarded For Being Nhl's Worst Team

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This franchise hit the jackpot twice. A failing franchise struck gold by getting the #1 pick in 84 I beleive being can't miss Mario Lemeiux, and then post lockout draft "lottery" in helping a potential moving franchise get golden boy next big thing Sidney Crosby. Talk about getting the breaks.

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Actually, every NHL team had the same chance at Crosby. He was drafted the year of the lockout, so everyone had an equal chance in the lottery. Lucky yes. Rewarded for sucking, no. Bleacherreport is nothing more than one person's opinion, who obviously did not bother to look at facts. Orpik is far from the NHL's dirtiest player too.

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Actually, every NHL team had the same chance at Crosby. He was drafted the year of the lockout, so everyone had an equal chance in the lottery. Lucky yes. Rewarded for sucking, no. Bleacherreport is nothing more than one person's opinion, who obviously did not bother to look at facts. Orpik is far from the NHL's dirtiest player too.

I thought it was funny and just found it on your board. We all know what the BleacherReport is and yes, Pens werre lucky as a four leaf clover after sucking for years.

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Sorry as a Pens fan I have to add a reply. The Pens made the playoffs 11 straight years. From 1990 - 2001, in that time period they won 2 Cups('91-'92), Won the President's Trophy in '93, made 2 ECF trips('96 vs Florida, '01 vs NJ, yea they lost both but....). So it's not like they were bad. It's very true, they did suck *edit* from '02 - until the Drafted Crosby BUT....take in consideration that until Mario Lemieux bought the team, they had Piss Poor ownership in Howard Baldwin(Mr. I'm gonna change the logo to that Pigeon/Corporate logo... after winning 2 Cups with the Skating Penguin, Mr. I just want $10million in Arena upgrades over a NEW Arena(before the Steelers got Heinz Field and the Irates got PNC Park)....what an azz face!!!!!) Can you tell I don't like him.

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Penguins Rewarded For Being Nhl's Worst Team

While everyone and their mother , especially the folks down at NBC, has jumped on the Pittsburgh Penguins bandwagon I most certainly have not.

Bandwagon? If you haven't noticed, the pens are the fastest growing team brand in the NHL.

http://ballhype.com/story/forbes_penguins_fastest_growing_nhl_team_brand/' target="_blank">http://ballhype.com/story/forbes_penguins_...nhl_team_brand/[/post]

It has absolutely nothing to do with Sidney Crosby’s perceived whining or "jibber jabber"* I love the guy and would relish an opportunity to see him in a red, black and white Devil uniform. The guy’s a horse.

Nor has it anything to do with Brooks Orpik’s proud place as the NHL’s dirtiest player.

Sean Avery would like to dispute that

Eric Cole and Tuomo Ruutu would certainly attest to my sentiments; anyone catch the two blatant “knee on knees” in game one against the Canes? Nor does it have anything to do with my disdain for Malkin’s game, Fleury’s personality….

It actually has nothing to do with any one particular Penguin player, simply the manner in which they've been acquired.

here we go...

Unlike the Redwings who built their squad with H

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Even with these two great draft picks, don't forget the downside - they have to pay these guys top draft pick money. In a salary capped world, they still have to figure out how to pay quality teammates for the top picks.

Crosby - 8.7 mil yr.

Malkin - 8.7 mil yr.

MAF - 5 mil yr.

Doesn't leave a lot of cap room for the other 24 players.

Not every team that gets a bunch of top draft picks has the success the Penguins have either. Look at the Thrashers - four years in a row of number 1 or 2 draft picks, and they sure don't have much to show for it.

No doubt the Penguins lucked up on getting Crosby, who was as close to a sure thing as you could get in an otherwise terrible draft class. Give them a little bit of credit though, they've taken the lucky bounce and run with it pretty well.

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You seriously quoted BLEACHER REPORT???? You do realize Myself, or anyone on these boards, can type a article up and have it posted on Bleacher Report, right?

No, i WAS SERIOUSLY just quoting a thread from the Pens board :lol:

Looks like it touched a little nerve on your board too :o

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Sorry as a Pens fan I have to add a reply. The Pens made the playoffs 11 straight years. From 1990 - 2001, in that time period they won 2 Cups('91-'92), Won the President's Trophy in '93, made 2 ECF trips('96 vs Florida, '01 vs NJ, yea they lost both but....). So it's not like they were bad. It's very true, they did suck *edit* from '02 - until the Drafted Crosby BUT....take in consideration that until Mario Lemieux bought the team, they had Piss Poor ownership in Howard Baldwin(Mr. I'm gonna change the logo to that Pigeon/Corporate logo... after winning 2 Cups with the Skating Penguin, Mr. I just want $10million in Arena upgrades over a NEW Arena(before the Steelers got Heinz Field and the Irates got PNC Park)....what an azz face!!!!!) Can you tell I don't like him.

BUT- did you move your franchize? :)

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The Pens owner before Lemieux was pretty much like the Wall Street folks who scalped the financial markets in the recent past. He bought the Pens with only one thousand dollars of his own money and the rest came from his partners or was just assumed debt. When his top partner pulled out and things weren't going well for the teams new arena, the Pens declared bankruptcy. Lemieux, being their biggest creditor due to his deferred salaries did a very honorable (and wise decision as it's the only way he was going to recoup his money) thing and assembled an ownership group and took control of the team. I am just glad they aren't the Oklahoma City Penguins, everything else is gravy.

The turnaround has been pretty amazing since then. The team's new arena will be opening for play the season after next. The salary cap has given EVERY team a chance to compete. The new rules all but neutered the boring to watch constant trapping defense that was oh so common before the lock out. It's a great time to be a hockey fan. It really is.

The Red Wings have done very well with scouting, drafting and developing players since the lock out. Kudos to them. For the last 10 years before the lock out they may as well have been the New York Yankees with as much success as they bought with their checkbook. As for that article.... saying teams that do poorly get high draft picks is mastering the obvious.

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Penguins are definitely not the NHL's worst team, history has proven this. Not sure what else to say here, so I'll just move on to another post to read. :)

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Penguins are definitely not the NHL's worst team, history has proven this. Not sure what else to say here, so I'll just move on to another post to read. :)

You seemed to have missed the point of the topic. They were the NHL's worst team (or close to it) when Crosby was drafted. It's why they received 3 balls in the lottery instead of 2 or 1. The league determined the number by the amount of playoff appearances and the amount of #1 draft picks the teams had in the previous 3 years.

Buffalo, Columbus, the Rangers, and Pittsburgh received 3 balls, 10 teams received two, and the rest received 1 ball. The conspiracy theory arises when Pittsburgh, a franchise surrounded by strife and controversy and under the threat of relocation, wins the draft, despite only having a 6.25% of doing so. The fact that Crosby was as hyped as he was at the time of the draft, it's seen as a way of the league "rescuing" the Pittsburgh franchise by providing them with a generational superstar.

Pittsburgh winning it also threw up a lot of red flares, because while Pittsburgh only had one #1 draft pick in the previous 3 years (which they traded up to receive), they also had a #2 overall and a #5 overall. Meanwhile, the other 3 teams with three balls (Buffalo, Columbus, and the Rangers) had nowhere near that sort of basis in the previous drafts.

Buffalo's previous 3 drafts:

13th overall

5th overall

11th overall

The Rangers previous 3 drafts:

6th overall

12th overall

13th overall

Columbus's previous 3 drafts:

8th overall

4th overall

1st overall

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You seemed to have missed the point of the topic. They were the NHL's worst team (or close to it) when Crosby was drafted. It's why they received 3 balls in the lottery instead of 2 or 1. The league determined the number by the amount of playoff appearances and the amount of #1 draft picks the teams had in the previous 3 years.

This is not correct. Crosby was drafted the year of the lockout. No season = no worst or best team. Every team had an equal chance at getting the first pick. If you were referring to Malkin or MAF, then your statement is correct. But not when referring to Crosby.

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This is not correct. Crosby was drafted the year of the lockout. No season = no worst or best team. Every team had an equal chance at getting the first pick. If you were referring to Malkin or MAF, then your statement is correct. But not when referring to Crosby.

You would think a Penguins fan would know how they received their star player.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401''>http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401' target="_blank">http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401[/post]

The Pittsburgh Penguins won the National Hockey League Draft Drawing, held today following the League's Board of Governors meeting in New York, and obtained the first overall selection for the 2005 Entry Draft, to be held Saturday, July 30 (noon, ET) at the Westin Hotel in Ottawa.

The Draft Drawing, a weighted lottery system, was used to determine the order of selection for all seven rounds of the Entry Draft. Under the weighted lottery system, the clubs that neither qualified for the Stanley Cup Playoffs in each of the 2001-02, 2002-03 and 2003-04 seasons, nor were awarded the first overall selection in each of the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 Entry Drafts, had the greatest chance of receiving the first overall selection, 6.3 per cent. These clubs were the Penguins, Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets and New York Rangers.

Ten clubs met one of the seven criteria listed above and had a 4.2% chance of winning the Drawing, while the remaining 16 clubs met more than one of the criteria and had a 2.1% chance.

Forty-eight balls, numbered one through 48, were placed in a lottery machine. Three ball numbers were randomly assigned to each the Penguins, Sabres, Blue Jackets and Rangers; two ball numbers were assigned to the 10 clubs with a 4.2% chance; and one ball number was assigned to the 16 clubs with a 2.1% chance. The first ball expelled determined the winner of the first overall draft pick and it had been assigned to the Penguins.

After the first overall selection was awarded, another ball was expelled to determine which club, from among the 29 remaining, received the second overall pick. This process was continued until each of the 30 first-round draft positions was assigned.

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I don't really understand the point of this thread other than to insult the Penguins franchise. I realize the only things (for the most part) being stated are fact, but it's not like the Hurricanes haven't been on the basement floor themselves. The Penguins happened to get "rewarded" for it, but isn't that the point of the draft/lottery? What am I missing?

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It is what it is. Why stress over something you can't change? What matters is the Pens are one of the most threatening teams now because they have two of the best forwards in the league and a decent goalie. However, they are far from impervious. I take issue with the "effect" of this cause-effect argument; how they got "there." Where? Still haven't won a cup, started very slow the last couple seasons which is why they didn't even win their division this time. Sure, they pick their game up in the post-season, but I guess what I'm saying is I don't feel like you should complain about how a team became good until they are officially good.

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Boy, I was just posting this cuz I thought it was interesting that they were debating this on the Pens board. I didnt give my opinion one way or another, just posted the article and gave JR some kudos for getting it done without getting multiple top draft picks. I even wrote I knew thats how it works in pro sports. Some of you like to argue just to argue and create drama.

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Let me clear up some points .

first of all the pens in thelate 90's had a dillema, as previously posted owner Howard Baldwin, in a futile attempt to continue to assemble all star teams in the 90's, paid a lot of players major money that he simply didnt have. handing out Major Multimillion dollar contracts to a dozen of veteran players every year not only put the club in financial jeapordy, but also stifled development of talent in the organization resulting in Superstar talent like Markus Nasland Demanding a trade to get better playing time (they then put him on a line w lemieux to vamp up his trade value- little known fact)

To get cash to pay for these move, baldwin agreed to a multi-million dollar payout to "fix" up meelon arena rather than get a new arena from the city like the steelers and Pirates did. A short term move that created a long term financial issue since mellon is simply not a prime revenue generating arena in the modern NHL.

After lemieux retired and the team was financially unable to retain stars like Jagr, Francis, and straka, attendance dropped and The team was forced to declare bankruptcy due to its high debt. The team, even in its bleak years was generating revenue, even moreso than half the NHL, but had to pay back the massive debt from the 90's. (which the team did, even after bankruptcy... all the creditors got paid in the end) to do this they basically cut payroll for 4 years, until they were out of bannkruptcy.

Point 2- Its not a well kept secret that even prior to the Lockout the pens management knew what was going to happen. The team had agreed with 9 other small market teams to not agree to any deal unless revenue sharing and a salary cap was in place. this allowed the pens management to go through with the salary dumping plan knowing that many big market teams operating with little care to the bottom line would not be able to sign all their talent after the lockout thus freeing up quality roleplayers and talent for teams with cap room

Point 3- the pens were already trying to rebuild their defensive core trading for and drafting fluery, orpik, and Whitney in the cluch and grab era, but the also lucked out grabbing guys like Letang before anyone knew how valuable puck moving dmen would be in the new rules. Moreover, they completely lucked into Talbot, drafting him in the late rounds the year before he led major juniors in scoring and managed to sign him the night before he went back into the draft (where he would have been a first rounder)

Point 4 The pens absolutly tanked the year before the lockout. Many media guys close to the team were not shy about talking of how the team thought it would have a shot at Ovechkin and if the league was locked out, that they would use the same draft order for crosby... what they couldnt have known was that Malkin would develop into a 5 tool threat and that losing out on ovechkin was actually winning. Having said that, they didnt try to tank the year after, when they signed a ton of busts and ended up with a lotto pick winning Staal#3

Point 5 for anyone who doent know, the crosby draft was not equal, three teams got 3 balls , another dozen had 2 and the rest had 1. The pens were tied for the best chance at winning it, but the rigged theorys are dumb because : A- the league really wanted him in new york, and B) every team got to send one guy to witnesss the drawing, which was audited by an independant audit group for validity.... (you dont think every other team wanted crosby as well) had this been rigged someone would have caught on, moreover Bettman was never that fond of Lemieux. look up how much Lemieux criticized him and his NHL and you will know those two cant be good friends at all.

Having said all this, Im amazed how the team came together the way it did. Lots of luck and mistakes that turned out better than they should have.

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Bottom line is ever team has bandwagon fans when they win, that includes Pittsburgh and Carolina. The thing I have noticed about Penguin fans is that they now are all over ever chat room and message boards boasting about their greatness and many times slipping in the "die hard" fan moniker. If is frankly annoying. Not accusing any of you Pens fans on here of being that way. I feel you should win with class.

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Had to sign up to respond to this. Look, I saw this exact same topic posted by both the Philly and Washington fans during those series Its as if people want to diminsh the Penguins success buy pointing out some lean years that lead up to the current success. Yes, the Pens were fortuante to pick very high when there were awesome players available. Reward for sucking? I suppose you can say that but the only pick made that was a slam dunk was Crosby. Lets not forget that Malkin was taken after Ovechkin and he was not touted to be the player he has become. Lets also not forget that he played in Russia two years after he got drafted. He was not a gimme, there were a lot of safer picks out there (your Johan Franzen being one of them), and the Pens took him anyway, without knowing if he would ever come to N America.

With regard to the Red Wings. Just as the Pens have "benefitted" from sucking, the Red Wings have benefitted from being awesome. Marian Hossa signed a $7 million contact to be there and passed on a $49 million contract with the Pens. Why? Because the Red Wings are awesome and Hossa took much less for guaranteed winning. Same with Franzen, and Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. These guys all signed long deals for, what will be, less than market value to stay with Detroit and always be on a winning club.

There are many clubs out there that constantly suck, constantly get high picks, yet still suck...Islanders, Coyotes, Kings. Just because you get the picks and the talent doesn't mean you are going to be a winner. Lets not forget that even with Crosby, Malkin, et al the Pens were well out of the playoffs in February. A genius, late-season coaching change is what got the Pens to this point not the players drafted after bad years.

Reward for sucking? Maybe. But there is much, much more to it than that. The Pens need not apologize nor should they be less proud of their accomplishments as a result. Lastly, I do not think that any Canes fans would feel cheap about getting an awesome player or two after a bad year or two. Nor should they. You guys have a nice team there. Your town has developed into a nice hockey town, something Pittsburgh always was, even in the lean years. Don't make yourselves look small by making the same silly statements as those jackasses in Philly. The Pens acquired their talent by the rules, fair and square. If it took some lean years to do it, so be it. They are what they are now and that's what matters.

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Had to sign up to respond to this. Look, I saw this exact same topic posted by both the Philly and Washington fans during those series Its as if people want to diminsh the Penguins success buy pointing out some lean years that lead up to the current success. Yes, the Pens were fortuante to pick very high when there were awesome players available. Reward for sucking? I suppose you can say that but the only pick made that was a slam dunk was Crosby. Lets not forget that Malkin was taken after Ovechkin and he was not touted to be the player he has become. Lets also not forget that he played in Russia two years after he got drafted. He was not a gimme, there were a lot of safer picks out there (your Johan Franzen being one of them), and the Pens took him anyway, without knowing if he would ever come to N America.

With regard to the Red Wings. Just as the Pens have "benefitted" from sucking, the Red Wings have benefitted from being awesome. Marian Hossa signed a $7 million contact to be there and passed on a $49 million contract with the Pens. Why? Because the Red Wings are awesome and Hossa took much less for guaranteed winning. Same with Franzen, and Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. These guys all signed long deals for, what will be, less than market value to stay with Detroit and always be on a winning club.

There are many clubs out there that constantly suck, constantly get high picks, yet still suck...Islanders, Coyotes, Kings. Just because you get the picks and the talent doesn't mean you are going to be a winner. Lets not forget that even with Crosby, Malkin, et al the Pens were well out of the playoffs in February. A genius, late-season coaching change is what got the Pens to this point not the players drafted after bad years.

Reward for sucking? Maybe. But there is much, much more to it than that. The Pens need not apologize nor should they be less proud of their accomplishments as a result. Lastly, I do not think that any Canes fans would feel cheap about getting an awesome player or two after a bad year or two. Nor should they. You guys have a nice team there. Your town has developed into a nice hockey town, something Pittsburgh always was, even in the lean years. Don't make yourselves look small by making the same silly statements as those jackasses in Philly. The Pens acquired their talent by the rules, fair and square. If it took some lean years to do it, so be it. They are what they are now and that's what matters.

just to note: the mid-season coaching change might have been what turned them around, it also might have been getting kunitz and guerin..... but if you ask me, the real turn around started the day Gonchar came back into the lineup after missing the entire season up to that point. They only lost 3 games out of 20 after Gonchar came back.

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just to note: the mid-season coaching change might have been what turned them around, it also might have been getting kunitz and guerin..... but if you ask me, the real turn around started the day Gonchar came back into the lineup after missing the entire season up to that point. They only lost 3 games out of 20 after Gonchar came back.

I liken Michel Therrien to someone's mother. He kept saying no, you can't do that (be aggressive offensively). You have to do this instead (almost resort to the neutral zone trap).

Whereas Dan Bylsma is more like a Grandma. He gets to say Sure, honey you can do that (play aggressive offensively). As long as you do so responsibly and back check like your rear end is on fire.

Edit: Getting Gonchar and Whitney back really helped settle the team down also.

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Hi, sorry I registered here just to come defend my team from all you really mean cances fans. You really hurt my feelings but I wish you all the best in the coming games.

I'll leave you now, Go Canes!

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Would this post exist had Carolina won the first two games of this series? Doubtful.

Hate the Penguins because they got lucky with drafts? Got to be kidding.

Worst team ever? Say that when they raise the cup high and the Hurricanes are left with only defeat. The Canes' made it three rounds in the playoffs with pure luck. Guess luck can go both ways.

Get over it, Spiteful one.

It's all one big conspiracy to eliminate the Canes' regardless. Crosby is the anti-christ and has the refs tied around his finger.

Or possibly he is just highly damn skilled, painfully fast, and can make you look down-right foolish in the corners. Possibly drawing penalties because your *edit* defense can't cover him?

Nah, not possible, not cry baby Crosby.

First of all, the original post was made before Game 2, so that throws out your little theory there.

Second of all, no team makes it to the ECF by luck. You're making your fellow Pen fans look bad.

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