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Babchuk signs with KHL

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Very interesting quotes from JR regarding the end of the Babchuk saga:


"Nothing about this angers me," Rutherford said. "It's disappointing that he doesn't understand how the system works. And he's not going to be able to figure out a way to beat the system."

"I don't think anything different of him," Rutherford said. "I think he's a solid NHL player that given the opportunity should score 15 goals every year. He may very well, the next time he plays [in the NHL], do it here."

This is the tone JR should have taken from the beginning. I think he realizes it himself. This is JR taking the adult position. Better late than never.

Also, by suggesting that JR would even consider taking him back again, he may be attempting to rehabilitate Babchuk's value in a trade. He may actually take him back, but he may be telling the other GM's, "yes, I would take him back, once he realizes how the business side works, he will be an outstanding defenseman. So let's make a trade."

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


TSA']

Very interesting quotes from JR regarding the end of the Babchuk saga:


"Nothing about this angers me," Rutherford said. "It's disappointing that he doesn't understand how the system works. And he's not going to be able to figure out a way to beat the system."

"I don't think anything different of him," Rutherford said. "I think he's a solid NHL player that given the opportunity should score 15 goals every year. He may very well, the next time he plays [in the NHL], do it here."

This is the tone JR should have taken from the beginning. I think he realizes it himself. This is JR taking the adult position. Better late than never.

I beg to differ, JR hasn't changed his position from day 1.    We don't really know what the other side was demanding or asking for at any point but we do know that JR never waivered from his original offer once.  He always had a job for Babchuk in the top 4 waiting for him if he signed his QO by the deadline mandated by the CBA, which all players and owners agreed to after the lock out.

I'm willing to bet that any change in tone you might have picked up from JR's quotes was frustration because the Babchuk camp didn't want to play by the existing rules.  Of course I dont know this for fact but based on JR's post Bachuk Saga comments, it seems there may have been some attempt to beat the system by the Babchuk camp.  You might not like JR or how he handled this situation but the man is a straight shooter and doesn't make things up to validate his arguments.

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


remkin wrote:

TSA']Very interesting quotes from JR regarding the end of the Babchuk saga:


"Nothing about this angers me," Rutherford said. "It's disappointing that he doesn't understand how the system works. And he's not going to be able to figure out a way to beat the system."

"I don't think anything different of him," Rutherford said. "I think he's a solid NHL player that given the opportunity should score 15 goals every year. He may very well, the next time he plays [in the NHL], do it here."

This is the tone JR should have taken from the beginning. I think he realizes it himself. This is JR taking the adult position. Better late than never.

I beg to differ, JR hasn't changed his position from day 1.    We don't really know what the other side was demanding or asking for at any point but we do know that JR never waivered from his original offer once.  He always had a job for Babchuk in the top 4 waiting for him if he signed his QO by the deadline mandated by the CBA, which all players and owners agreed to after the lock out.

I'm willing to bet that any change in tone you might have picked up from JR's quotes was frustration because the Babchuk camp didn't want to play by the existing rules.  Of course I dont know this for fact but based on JR's post Bachuk Saga comments, it seems there may have been some attempt to beat the system by the Babchuk camp.  You might not like JR or how he handled this situation but the man is a straight shooter and doesn't make things up to validate his arguments.

TSA,

I freely admit I may be wrong about this. But please read my posts carefully. I have been explicit about the fact that I am a huge JR fan. All of my instinct (like just about everyone elses) is to trust JR especially vs. one with Babchuk's history. JR is a straight shooter in general, but every GM has to keep some things close and will let other things out.

The one thing that this hinges on, and please correct me if I am wrong is this. What is the actual practice in the case of players who have a breakout while restricted free agents? If it is completely unheard of to give said player a raise, then I respectfully withdraw my take on this.

If it is the norm to give such a raise, then the issue is at least open for debate.

Was it with in the standard practice for a GM with a player who had broken out to say, "take the CO or take a walk?" To me that is the question. I am basing my opinion on statements made on this board that seemed to imply that giving a guy in this position a raise was normal. The official rules are not always the standard practice. Again, Babchuk is truly trying to game the system and is way out of the norm, then JR had not choice.

Either way, let me state again, that while everyone makes mistakes, JR is on balance one of the best GMs in the game and is the single most important person to the success of this team in Raleigh. I wouldn't ever want to lose him. He almost walks on water. ALMOST. He is human.

EDIT: Also, I was just suggesting that JR's tone is different in those quotes. Not that he is making things up. That's what I posted also. I may have read his initial tone wrong, but I do think there's been a change, even suggesting that JR would take him back next year. Not a lot were thinking that before these quotes.

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I respect JR and think he is one of the best, if not the best GM when it comes to getting value for dollars in players.  But, IMO, he dropped the puck on this one.  Enough said, it's over.  I'm moving on.

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WE still have his NHL rights,so JR could still get a bag of pucks and a few new goalie sticks for him. Who's to say he might not walk out on his KHL team. This guy is not exactly the second coming of Bobby Orr, in fact, he isn't even the second coming of Oleg Tverdosky. I don't believe other GM's wanted to take a chance on a player with such an unstable past.

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We all agree to disagree when it comes to this subject but the one thing we all know is JR is probably the best GM in the game. Whether he is telling everything concerning the AB situation remains to be seen.

If AB and his agent were trying to "play" the system, then JR did the right thing but we all know JR is the type of GM who brings back former players ala Erik Cole or Aaron Ward and if JR says AB is welcome back then we must take JR at his word.

Like JR said, there is a system in place in the NHL and AB needs to realize that. Maybe KHL has a different system and AB thinks he can use that system to get what he want over here but it won't work. Until AB learns that, his career in the NHL is going to be one full of struggles and him running to Russia when he don't get what he wants here.

AB's agents need to do a better job of informing AB of how things work here.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


TSA wrote:


remkin wrote:

TSA']

Very interesting quotes from JR regarding the end of the Babchuk saga:


"Nothing about this angers me," Rutherford said. "It's disappointing that he doesn't understand how the system works. And he's not going to be able to figure out a way to beat the system."

"I don't think anything different of him," Rutherford said. "I think he's a solid NHL player that given the opportunity should score 15 goals every year. He may very well, the next time he plays [in the NHL], do it here."

This is the tone JR should have taken from the beginning. I think he realizes it himself. This is JR taking the adult position. Better late than never.

I beg to differ, JR hasn't changed his position from day 1.    We don't really know what the other side was demanding or asking for at any point but we do know that JR never waivered from his original offer once.  He always had a job for Babchuk in the top 4 waiting for him if he signed his QO by the deadline mandated by the CBA, which all players and owners agreed to after the lock out.

I'm willing to bet that any change in tone you might have picked up from JR's quotes was frustration because the Babchuk camp didn't want to play by the existing rules.  Of course I dont know this for fact but based on JR's post Bachuk Saga comments, it seems there may have been some attempt to beat the system by the Babchuk camp.  You might not like JR or how he handled this situation but the man is a straight shooter and doesn't make things up to validate his arguments.

TSA,

I freely admit I may be wrong about this. But please read my posts carefully. I have been explicit about the fact that I am a huge JR fan. All of my instinct (like just about everyone elses) is to trust JR especially vs. one with Babchuk's history. JR is a straight shooter in general, but every GM has to keep some things close and will let other things out.

The one thing that this hinges on, and please correct me if I am wrong is this. What is the actual practice in the case of players who have a breakout while restricted free agents? If it is completely unheard of to give said player a raise, then I respectfully withdraw my take on this.

If it is the norm to give such a raise, then the issue is at least open for debate.

Was it with in the standard practice for a GM with a player who had broken out to say, "take the CO or take a walk?" To me that is the question. I am basing my opinion on statements made on this board that seemed to imply that giving a guy in this position a raise was normal. The official rules are not always the standard practice. Again, Babchuk is truly trying to game the system and is way out of the norm, then JR had not choice.

Either way, let me state again, that while everyone makes mistakes, JR is on balance one of the best GMs in the game and is the single most important person to the success of this team in Raleigh. I wouldn't ever want to lose him. He almost walks on water. ALMOST. He is human.

EDIT: Also, I was just suggesting that JR's tone is different in those quotes. Not that he is making things up. That's what I posted also. I may have read his initial tone wrong, but I do think there's been a change, even suggesting that JR would take him back next year. Not a lot were thinking that before these quotes.

I don't know what the standard operating procedure is for any of this except that whatever happens, the rules of the CBA have to be followed.  I wasn't trying to discredit any of your opinions, only suggest another side to the story based solely on my own observations.  The only facts we know are that at the end of last season, JR had a spot reserved for Babchuk if he signed his QO within the allotted time frame.  Once that time expired, Babchuk forfeited his place in the line up and on the team.

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I really don't understand why so many are so eager to paint JR in a bad light. In all instances, JR always seem to be above board in dealing with the player. Look at Cole and LaRose talk:How many GM would allow the player to test the water while keeping the offer on the table. He more or less is telling the player go and find the best deal and JR is convince it will not be much better than his offer with a little hometown discount built in. Babchuk more or less has the same offer. The QO is just the number to maintain our RFA rights. It is reasonable to assume he did not get any significant offer. So JR is probably right about his value. FWIW, Boullion just signed for 750k with Nashville according to RDS. He is projected to be #4-7 defenseman. With this free agent market, 1 million is not so bad. There are much worse scenario than to come back and play 1 year with the the promise of top 4 TOI and regain arbitration right for RFA next year.

Jussi's cap # were 1.812 last year and he sign for 1.75 this year. How come there is no talk of.....Oooh, JR must be mad at Jussi...or JR is lowballing Jussi even though he has a break out half year. And he didn't get a raise. How terrible JR is to treat Jussi that way. Let face it, JR is very honest in assessing a player is worth. His record on this is impeccable. I see no indication he is wrong on the Babchuk situation.

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Jussi's cap # were 1.812 last year and he sign for 1.75 this year. How come there is no talk of.....Oooh, JR must be mad at Jussi...or JR is lowballing Jussi even though he has a break out half year. And he didn't get a raise. How terrible JR is to treat Jussi that way. Let face it, JR is very honest in assessing a player is worth. His record on this is impeccable. I see no indication he is wrong on the Babchuk situation.

Jussi came to us by trade with us paying only a portion of a larger contract and a low cap hit.. regardless of his performance in the playoffs which is marvelous do you expect a player who got dropped in exchange for 2 bench riders is gonna resign for a raise? Tampa basically dumped Jussi, Brookbank never played and Melichar saw a tiny bit of ice time.  He's probably happy to be playing for any money at all and honestly I'm happy he's here since he seems to have found a good fit.  Him signing for a tiny drop is not that big of a deal since he was traded frm Dallas to Tampa, then a year later from Tampa to us.  His original contract apparently didn't fit his performance anymore.  If not for JR's usual finding of a diamond in the rough he would probably be playing for Tampa's AHL team or not at all.

As far as the Babchuk thing is concerned, I'm more concerned not that JR couldn't sign him, but that after leaving for russia a second time and ignoring his NHL contract JR would still let him play?? Why waste a roster spot on him? He have plenty of good dmen in the pipeline.. he's expendable.  Let him go.. I don't see us losing anything since he wasnt going to play for us anyway.

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Of course we're not going to know EVERYTHING that went on during this saga. But what I do know, is that Anton Babchuk finished 5th among defensemen in goals, and was not offered a raise from the 1 million he received last year... that's about as far as I have to read into it... unless Anton was excessively overvaluing himself. This is the same contract Melichar got last season... Babchuk is worth more than that....period.

I haven't heard a single report that Babchuk's behavior, at any time, upset his teammates. I think, that if Babs were a Free Agent, he would have gotten a contract in the area of $2 mill a season, and I suspect that's the range he was seeking.

Anton rejected his qualifying offer months ago, and I would think JR would immediately seek a trade partner after this, but I'm not sure he did.

As a player, Babchuk had to make a choice... it certainly didn't appear that he would be playing in the NHL this season, so he signed a contract with the KHL. Personally I think his previous stint in Russia did him a lot of good in developing his game, and it may again. The KHL is pretty competitive.

I don't see either of a Babchuk's stints in Russia as "calling JR's bluff". If the guy wants too much money, fine.. you don't sign him. I really don't think Babchuk's behavior warranted "Babchuk can either accept his qualifying offer or go back to Russia." But that's just my opinion.

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From what I have heard and read, Babchuk was a PITA in the locker room. A bit of a petulant child if you will.

He had issues in Chicago and we took a flyer on him. In return, when he was assigned to Lowell, because he was the only player with a two-way contract, he refused to report and then cried all the way home to Mother Russia. He spent a year in Siberia and learned that maybe it wasn't quite so bad over here in Carolina and JR brought him back. I was cheesed that JR brought him back, especially after his petulant child act of taking his hockey stick and running home when he didn't get his way.

We take another flyer on Babs last season and while he does a decent job and scores a couple of goals, he also disappears for games on end, sits in the playoffs, because of his play. There is a reason that Babs sat in the press box and Kabs played instead. For being the size he is, Anton doesn't use his body. I haven't seen that man hit anyone. We make him a QO and he refuses and demands a trade. When it doesn't happen his way, he again, takes his hockey stick and flies home to Mother Russia.

I will not be happy if we bring him back again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, if there's a third time. Someone hit JR with a rock. He ain't thinkin' too clearly.

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Yeah, it's not so much that there's anger that Babchuk won't be on the team. That much was obvious once JR only offered the QO. It's how the situation was handled.

As already stated, JR said he wanted Babchuk back in the Top 4 next season. If he believes Babchuk could have played in the Top 4 this upcoming season, then the problem clearly wasn't Babchuk's play at any time during the year (playoffs included). But if he wanted Babs back in the Top 4, why only offer him his QO? Babs was making 1 million when he came over here, slotted as a 6-7th defenseman, having Kaberle and Melichar taking roster spots ahead of him. He has a season that well exceeded the expectations of everbody (I'm assuming), and he's only offered that same 1 million in return? And some don't see a problem with that?

But again, it's the fact we got nothing for him that just completely baffles me. Here's a guy you had penciled into your Top 4 next season and you let him walk away without getting anything for him. And yes, while we still own his rights, do you really believe his value now is ANYWHERE near where it was at the beginning of the offseason? Once it became obvious that JR and Babs weren't going to meet eye to eye, JR should have taken the same tone as the earlier quote posted and say something like:

"We're very disappointed that the two camps could not reach an agreement, but at the moment, it seems that nothing can be done. We'll be actively shopping Babchuk's rights in an attempt to reach a deal that satisfies the needs of all parties involved."

As for why Babchuk left for Russia this time around, it's because he's a hockey player and hockey season's starting. He went to where he could find a job. Can't really fault him for that. The first time around, all his fault, 100%. This one, not so much.

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This new fancy message board (sarcasm intended) needs a smilie that is beating a dead horse.

From what I know, which is admittedly very little, my main complaint with J.R. is how he stated so plainly that Babs could take the offer or walk.  There really wasn't any need for him to make that statement to anybody other than Babs' agent.  He certainly didn't need to tell us or the media.  He drew a line in the sand and then he couldn't move the line without everybody knowing. 

Don't paint yourself in a corner.

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Honestly I am not sad or angry I just dont care we should all just move on we have a great team with or without babchuk. Anyways once teams realized that if they put some pressure on babchuk he didnt do so hot. For those who might be ripping on JR you need to check urself cause if we didnt have JR this team would not be were it is today.

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I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or hurl. Anton Babchuk, you make me feel kinda funny...schwing!

Sorry, got a little nostalgic there. Can't wait til next summer for the exciting conclusion of this saga...maybe JR will study a little business so he can learn to negotiate better.roll.gif

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Babchuk at the first training session broke the barrier glass 

 
Defender Avangard
Anton Babchuk
arrived at the location of the Omsk team.
At the first workout, he used his powerful throwing pieces has broken the barrier glass, reported the official website of Avangard.

http://www.championat.ru/hockey/news-312031.html

Also, according to RDS the deal is for 1.5mil this season for an unknown length

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Honestly at this point I don't really care.  Would it have been nice to get something for his rights? Yes.  But we don't know what went on behind closed doors and all we know is that JR didn't give him a raise and Babs didn't take the offer.  Personally I'm completely fine with the way JR has handled this because he's given players in the past every opprotunity to test the FA waters to see what type of market he would fetch.  Granted Babs couldn't just sign with another team, but JR has always done what he believes is best for this team.  With Pitkanen and Corvo already on this team I wanted us to focus more on the defensive defenders side of things anyway and I would take Alberts or Ward right now over Babchuck because that addressed our needs.  Whatever happened behind closed doors to make it so JR didn't trade Babs for something we'll never know, but it is over until next summer and I couldn't be happier.

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Yeah, it's not so much that there's anger that Babchuk won't be on the team. That much was obvious once JR only offered the QO. It's how the situation was handled.

As already stated, JR said he wanted Babchuk back in the Top 4 next season. If he believes Babchuk could have played in the Top 4 this upcoming season, then the problem clearly wasn't Babchuk's play at any time during the year (playoffs included). But if he wanted Babs back in the Top 4, why only offer him his QO? Babs was making 1 million when he came over here, slotted as a 6-7th defenseman, having Kaberle and Melichar taking roster spots ahead of him. He has a season that well exceeded the expectations of everbody (I'm assuming), and he's only offered that same 1 million in return? And some don't see a problem with that?

But again, it's the fact we got nothing for him that just completely baffles me. Here's a guy you had penciled into your Top 4 next season and you let him walk away without getting anything for him. And yes, while we still own his rights, do you really believe his value now is ANYWHERE near where it was at the beginning of the offseason? Once it became obvious that JR and Babs weren't going to meet eye to eye, JR should have taken the same tone as the earlier quote posted and say something like:

"We're very disappointed that the two camps could not reach an agreement, but at the moment, it seems that nothing can be done. We'll be actively shopping Babchuk's rights in an attempt to reach a deal that satisfies the needs of all parties involved."

As for why Babchuk left for Russia this time around, it's because he's a hockey player and hockey season's starting. He went to where he could find a job. Can't really fault him for that. The first time around, all his fault, 100%. This one, not so much.

Well, Frog, this is about all you can say about it. 

  

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


IceFrog999']Yeah, it's not so much that there's anger that Babchuk won't be on the team. That much was obvious once JR only offered the QO. It's how the situation was handled.

As already stated, JR said he wanted Babchuk back in the Top 4 next season. If he believes Babchuk could have played in the Top 4 this upcoming season, then the problem clearly wasn't Babchuk's play at any time during the year (playoffs included). But if he wanted Babs back in the Top 4, why only offer him his QO? Babs was making 1 million when he came over here, slotted as a 6-7th defenseman, having Kaberle and Melichar taking roster spots ahead of him. He has a season that well exceeded the expectations of everbody (I'm assuming), and he's only offered that same 1 million in return? And some don't see a problem with that?

But again, it's the fact we got nothing for him that just completely baffles me. Here's a guy you had penciled into your Top 4 next season and you let him walk away without getting anything for him. And yes, while we still own his rights, do you really believe his value now is ANYWHERE near where it was at the beginning of the offseason? Once it became obvious that JR and Babs weren't going to meet eye to eye, JR should have taken the same tone as the earlier quote posted and say something like:

"We're very disappointed that the two camps could not reach an agreement, but at the moment, it seems that nothing can be done. We'll be actively shopping Babchuk's rights in an attempt to reach a deal that satisfies the needs of all parties involved."

As for why Babchuk left for Russia this time around, it's because he's a hockey player and hockey season's starting. He went to where he could find a job. Can't really fault him for that. The first time around, all his fault, 100%. This one, not so much.

Well, Frog, this is about all you can say about it. 

  You don't know me very well, do you? Or is that a creative way of saying "Shut up already"?

laugh.gif

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[quote name='IceFrog999 wrote:


coastal_caniac wrote:

IceFrog999']Yeah, it's not so much that there's anger that Babchuk won't be on the team. That much was obvious once JR only offered the QO. It's how the situation was handled.

As already stated, JR said he wanted Babchuk back in the Top 4 next season. If he believes Babchuk could have played in the Top 4 this upcoming season, then the problem clearly wasn't Babchuk's play at any time during the year (playoffs included). But if he wanted Babs back in the Top 4, why only offer him his QO? Babs was making 1 million when he came over here, slotted as a 6-7th defenseman, having Kaberle and Melichar taking roster spots ahead of him. He has a season that well exceeded the expectations of everbody (I'm assuming), and he's only offered that same 1 million in return? And some don't see a problem with that?

But again, it's the fact we got nothing for him that just completely baffles me. Here's a guy you had penciled into your Top 4 next season and you let him walk away without getting anything for him. And yes, while we still own his rights, do you really believe his value now is ANYWHERE near where it was at the beginning of the offseason? Once it became obvious that JR and Babs weren't going to meet eye to eye, JR should have taken the same tone as the earlier quote posted and say something like:

"We're very disappointed that the two camps could not reach an agreement, but at the moment, it seems that nothing can be done. We'll be actively shopping Babchuk's rights in an attempt to reach a deal that satisfies the needs of all parties involved."

As for why Babchuk left for Russia this time around, it's because he's a hockey player and hockey season's starting. He went to where he could find a job. Can't really fault him for that. The first time around, all his fault, 100%. This one, not so much.

Well, Frog, this is about all you can say about it. 

  
You don't know me very well, do you? Or is that a creative way of saying "Shut up already"?

laugh.gif

Just sayin you pretty much summed things up is all.  It's really no use saying much more.

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Just when you thought it was over...another tidbit from Chip at the N&O: link

"...Babchuk has signed a one-year contract for $1.5 million with Avangard Omsk of the KHL according to a media report out of Russia. Word has it Babchuk, a restricted free agent with no arbitration rights, was offered the same deal by the Canes after being made an initial qualifying offer of one year at $1 million."

This, plus the fact that his agent couldn't even confirm the signing at first, make me wonder what is going on in Anton's head. At any rate, I hope he tears it up in the KHL this year, and who knows - if Corvo is too expensive to re-sign, Babs may be back. eek.gif

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Just when you thought it was over...another tidbit from Chip at the N&O: link

"...Babchuk has signed a one-year contract for $1.5 million with Avangard Omsk of the KHL according to a media report out of Russia. Word has it Babchuk, a restricted free agent with no arbitration rights, was offered the same deal by the Canes after being made an initial qualifying offer of one year at $1 million."

This, plus the fact that his agent couldn't even confirm the signing at first, make me wonder what is going on in Anton's head. At any rate, I hope he tears it up in the KHL this year, and who knows - if Corvo is too expensive to re-sign, Babs may be back. eek.gif

I would be hard pressed to make a comparison between Babs and Corvo (except the hard shot from the point on the PP). Corvo has a better developed defensive skill set than Babs. Corvo is introspective and sets a high performance expectation on himself. Babs behaves like a tempermental child-----and don't say it is his age. We have younger players than Babs (Staal and Ward) who are true professionals. I think it has to do with Babs' personality. He may well grow better defensively, but I bet his temperment and personality will get in his way a lot. I, too, hope he does well in the KHL but I wouldn't consider Babs for Corvo a good trade off for next year. I would rather look elsewhere if we can't re-sign Corvo. Just my two cents.

  

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Just when you thought it was over...another tidbit from Chip at the N&O: link

"...Babchuk has signed a one-year contract for $1.5 million with Avangard Omsk of the KHL according to a media report out of Russia. Word has it Babchuk, a restricted free agent with no arbitration rights, was offered the same deal by the Canes after being made an initial qualifying offer of one year at $1 million."

This, plus the fact that his agent couldn't even confirm the signing at first, make me wonder what is going on in Anton's head. At any rate, I hope he tears it up in the KHL this year, and who knows - if Corvo is too expensive to re-sign, Babs may be back. eek.gif

This just gets weirder and weirder. So the Canes offered Babs the same money? He must have been trying to get more than that intially, then JR went and filled up the defense, and Babchuk is left with no options but to take the same money to play in Russia.

I don't know what if any negative effect Babchuk has in the locker room, but the way he has played his business hand has not worked out well for him at least twice now.

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