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How would you fix this mess?

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1) Pitkanen should be the first to go. There is no effort from him at all. Even my 13 yr old who has no interest in hockey said..."Dad, why is that guy just standing there? Shouldn't he be skating or something?

I respectfully and sternly disagree with that.  You and your 13 year old are mistaken.  Pitkanen is one of the only members playing so far this year.  He was standing around at the San Jose game behind the goal because A. Ward was out of position, not giving Pits any options on moving the puck out.  Furthermore, Ward had the opportunity to skate the puck out, and dumped it back to Pikanen who was double covered. 

  

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I agree with you more than I disagree. Except I don't think JR will wait to be approached with a deal or wait for the perfect deal. I think he will go out and make one.  But the truth is I don't know how to fix this mess. A week ago I thought a winger would solve the problem but now everywhere you look you see a problem. Maybe after the next couple of games we will get an indication of what management is thinking in regards to fixing or rebuilding this year.

JR has never been the type to make a deal simply for the fact of making a deal.  I respect him for that and I don't think he does anything unless he feels we are getting proper value in return.  Especially not now.  A trade does not guarantee to fix anything and I don't see him doing if it is not the right fit.  Well see.

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


OBXer']I agree with you more than I disagree. Except I don't think JR will wait to be approached with a deal or wait for the perfect deal. I think he will go out and make one.  But the truth is I don't know how to fix this mess. A week ago I thought a winger would solve the problem but now everywhere you look you see a problem. Maybe after the next couple of games we will get an indication of what management is thinking in regards to fixing or rebuilding this year.

JR has never been the type to make a deal simply for the fact of making a deal.  I respect him for that and I don't think he does anything unless he feels we are getting proper value in return.  Especially not now.  A trade does not guarantee to fix anything and I don't see him doing it if it is the right.  Well see.

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[quote name='fpsndiver wrote:


weehawk']1)
Pitkanen should be the first to go
. There is no effort from him at all. Even my 13 yr old who has no interest in hockey said..."Dad, why is that guy just standing there? Shouldn't he be skating or something?

I respectfully and sternly disagree with that.  You and your 13 year old are mistaken.  Pitkanen is one of the only members playing so far this year.  He was standing around at the San Jose game behind the goal because A. Ward was out of position, not giving Pits any options on moving the puck out.  Furthermore, Ward had the opportunity to skate the puck out, and dumped it back to Pikanen who was double covered. 

  

Yup.  Not only one of our best players but definitely our best D man.  He is not on my long list of available players.  Perhaps that was perfect time to explain to your 13 year old, who you admitted knows nothing about hockey, a few facts about skating ability.  He's one of, if not the best on our team.

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I don't know if it's yard-sale time, but even if this current team started playing better it is hard to see making the playoffs. The last thing we need is a slight improvement and another near miss on the playoffs.

There is only one move that might have the chance of a stunning turnaround. Move Brind'Amour. I'm not saying that this is doable, but this is the one thing that has the potential to turn things suddenly with one move. Even more than finding that first line winger. See my post on the playing GM page for the logic. I'm not saying it's all Brind'Amour's fault, just that the team and especially Staal are not responding to his leadership.

At some point this team is going to need to find a legit first line. The problem is that we need the winger we pick up to be around for a while. It is a delema because JR clearly had a plan to ride this team one more year then clear house, get the winger and bring up the kids. Now that schedule gets pushed up, but it is hard to see how he can get that first line winger at this point. If he can, get him now. Dump whatever salary you need to.

I agree that Pitkanen, Gleason, C.Ward, and Staal are basic keepers. I might add Ruutu, who on a second or third line is still a huge asset. Everyone else should be in the discussion.

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perhaps they can bring a player in who walks in the dressing room and say"Hi, what's with all the long faces? What's the problem guys? No problems, let's go out and play some hockey!"

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


fpsndiver wrote:

weehawk']1)
Pitkanen should be the first to go
. There is no effort from him at all. Even my 13 yr old who has no interest in hockey said..."Dad, why is that guy just standing there? Shouldn't he be skating or something?

I respectfully and sternly disagree with that.  You and your 13 year old are mistaken.  Pitkanen is one of the only members playing so far this year.  He was standing around at the San Jose game behind the goal because A. Ward was out of position, not giving Pits any options on moving the puck out.  Furthermore, Ward had the opportunity to skate the puck out, and dumped it back to Pikanen who was double covered. 

  

Yup.  Not only one of our best players but definitely our best D man.  He is not on my long list of available players.  Perhaps that was perfect time to explain to your 13 year old, who you admitted knows nothing about hockey, a few facts about skating ability.  He's one of, if not the best on our team.

Pitkanen the first to go??? Are you kidding me? Like the above said...he is one of the few bright spots for us...Come on people and wake up!

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[quote name='alnova1 wrote:


Faceoff-ch1 wrote:

fpsndiver']I respectfully and sternly disagree with that.  You and your 13 year old are mistaken.  Pitkanen is one of the only members playing so far this year.  He was standing around at the San Jose game behind the goal because A. Ward was out of position, not giving Pits any options on moving the puck out.  Furthermore, Ward had the opportunity to skate the puck out, and dumped it back to Pikanen who was double covered. 

  

Yup.  Not only one of our best players but definitely our best D man.  He is not on my long list of available players.  Perhaps that was perfect time to explain to your 13 year old, who you admitted knows nothing about hockey, a few facts about skating ability.  He's one of, if not the best on our team.

Pitkanen the first to go??? Are you kidding me? Like the above said...he is one of the few bright spots for us...Come on people and wake up!

The only guy on the team that can put a pass on the tape.

Nuff said.

  

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


OBXer']

I agree with you more than I disagree. Except I don't think JR will wait to be approached with a deal or wait for the perfect deal. I think he will go out and make one.  But the truth is I don't know how to fix this mess. A week ago I thought a winger would solve the problem but now everywhere you look you see a problem. Maybe after the next couple of games we will get an indication of what management is thinking in regards to fixing or rebuilding this year.

JR has never been the type to make a deal simply for the fact of making a deal.  I respect him for that and I don't think he does anything unless he feels we are getting proper value in return.  Especially not now.  A trade does not guarantee to fix anything and I don't see him doing if it is not the right fit.  Well see.

Your right. However JR will make a trade to get the team going. I'm not saying he won't get equal or better value.  I know there isn't alot out there right now . None the less I think he will find a deal and make it and make it soon.  We will see.

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Well it's to late now and it would have to be NHL wide probably, but I'd make your pay based on your yearly performance based on what you said you could do.  You know like the rest of us get paid.

Might work like this.  Ok this year the team and you, the player, agree to how much your going to make this year.  Let's say your a rookie so the pay will be $750,000 if you meet your goals or $500,000 if you don't preform.  Ok Mr. Player what are you going to do for this pay?  I'll aim for X goals and Y assists plus any other goals that are agreed on.

Year end comes, ok lets look at the numbers. Congrats you made the goals that were agreed on here is your money.  Oh sorry you didn't even come any were near what you said you were going to do, here is your $500k.  Well you didn't meet every goal but you hit most of them so your pay will be $650,000.

Today's players wouldn't go for it, but I think it would work.  It would also force everyone to work together more since all players would have a reason to be working together.  Problem with the way they are payed today is there is no real incentive.  You have a couple could years appear to be earning your pay so you demand high $$.  You get what you demand, contracts are signed and now your set.  Player can slack off a bit knowing he's got big $$  coming in and is he worried, hell no he's got a contract protecting him.

Ok back to the real world.  Need to be working on my set goals for the year so I can get my $.

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Well it's to late now and it would have to be NHL wide probably, but I'd make your pay based on your yearly performance based on what you said you could do.  You know like the rest of us get paid.

Might work like this.  Ok this year the team and you, the player, agree to how much your going to make this year.  Let's say your a rookie so the pay will be $750,000 if you meet your goals or $500,000 if you don't preform.  Ok Mr. Player what are you going to do for this pay?  I'll aim for X goals and Y assists plus any other goals that are agreed on.

Year end comes, ok lets look at the numbers. Congrats you made the goals that were agreed on here is your money.  Oh sorry you didn't even come any were near what you said you were going to do, here is your $500k.  Well you didn't meet every goal but you hit most of them so your pay will be $650,000.

Today's players wouldn't go for it, but I think it would work.  It would also force everyone to work together more since all players would have a reason to be working together.  Problem with the way they are payed today is there is no real incentive.  You have a couple could years appear to be earning your pay so you demand high $$.  You get what you demand, contracts are signed and now your set.  Player can slack off a bit knowing he's got big $$  coming in and is he worried, hell no he's got a contract protecting him.

Ok back to the real world.  Need to be working on my set goals for the year so I can get my $.

I didn't get enough TOI.

I was on a weak line.

There was no defense playing in front of me.

I played hurt for half of the season.

The coach wanted me to keep pucks deep and not shoot as much.

I have to cover the D-man because he pinches too much.

If the D-man would pinch once in a while it would open up things for me.

The sun was in my eyes.

The dog ate my homework.

  

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it was only a basic plan.  you would work in exceptions for certain things.

I know, I was being a bit of a smarty-pants, however, it does make it more individual and not team oriented.  The guaranteed contracts are the problem in my opinion.  If you sign a player and he doesn't perform, he can just cruise and there's nothing a team can do except pay.

  

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I tried reading the entire thread but there are too many knees jerking across my screen making it too difficult to read on.

Get younger. Give Sutter/Boychuk/Bowman/Carson/Rodney 2nd line/pairing minutes. I love 'em but it's finally time for Brindy and Walks to hang 'em up for the betterment of the team. Then, over time, try trading for high picks or young guys. If no one bites, start waiving players who aren't producing/contributing one by one to make room for the young guys who should be brought up. Let the remaining veterans compete for roster spots.

edit: oh and one more thing....

JimMora.jpg

Playoffs!?!?

Forget it. We will not be in the post-season this year. Go ahead and accept that.

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"Forget making the playoffs---it is not going to happen this year"---------really?      Which crystal ball are you looking at?

Last year, around the all star break, we didn't give them a chance to make the playoffs either.  Remember ?

So I don't think that is a given, just yet. We'll just have to watch it play out.

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I really don't think this is as difficult to fix as everyone is making it out to be. First thing you do is bring a big effort on wednesday and get a win against the Panthers, if you're looking for confidence its good to play against the last team you beat, let alone beat them 7-2. Then carry over the momentum into the weekend and take it to the Leafs and the Blue Jackets. This part of our schedule is set up perfect for us to get a run of wins together, We're not playing the toughest teams in the league so a good effort should keep us in most games. With Staal out alot of people are going to need to step it up and I think they will. But I see us back at .500 by the end of the month, our confidence will be back, and we'll be chasing for one of the final playoff spots. I don't care if this is overly optimistic I still think we should and will beat most of the teams on our schedule this month.

Side note, I know most people on this board are jokin around and are as pissed as I am, but I'm tired of going to games and hearing fans continually dogging our team over and over. It's ridiculous, sure we've had a bad start but it's not like they aren't trying or working hard.

Here's to this week being the turning point of our season.

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I dont need my 13 yr old to tell me that Pitkanen is a minus 6 with 18 penalty mins in only eight games. That's lazy hockey. The guy is not skating or hitting and that's what defensemen do. You cant blame AWard for this. Stick your head in the sand if you want. But the guys you think are keepers may be the guys that are in fact the problem. At this stage, there are no keepers on this team other than Cam. This team is not gelling and wont without some major changes. Guys like Pitkanen are great trade bait, because he's "perceived" as a good player. Dont be surprised if he's put up.

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perhaps they can bring a player in who walks in the dressing room and say"Hi, what's with all the long faces? What's the problem guys? No problems, let's go out and play some hockey!"

Sean Hill did that in '02 when Rutherford traded for him. Worked then, it can work now.

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I dont need my 13 yr old to tell me that Pitkanen is a minus 6 with 18 penalty mins in only eight games. That's lazy hockey. The guy is not skating or hitting and that's what defensemen do. You cant blame AWard for this. Stick your head in the sand if you want. But the guys you think are keepers may be the guys that are in fact the problem. At this stage, there are no keepers on this team other than Cam. This team is not gelling and wont without some major changes. Guys like Pitkanen are great trade bait, because he's "perceived" as a good player. Dont be surprised if he's put up.

Aaron Ward is a -8 with 12 penalty minutes.  Just saying...pretty hard to pin this all on one guy when the whole team is a minus, with the only exception being Scott Walker, and thats if you're going by the stats you used.  They're all taking lazy penalties because they're all being outplayed, outskated and outworked as a team.

  

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It appears to me that Staal is a slow starter every year. Does that mean he is hurt at the start of the season the last few years? I don't think so. Other than the cost involved in paying 3 coaches, I have yet to see anyone give a good reason to keep him or the entire staff. I agree that we start bringing up the guys in Albany. We are getting long in the tooth to compete at the highest level of the NHL. It needs to be a slow process to mix in the young guys. It can't be a complete fire sale. As I said earlier Roddy needs to put in his papers and bow out during the olympic break. I hope we can wait that long. Roddy has been the corner stone of the team for since Ronnie retired and is a bonified Hall of Famer. He has earned the right to go out on his terms. Harrison has been waived, send him down he is on a two way contract anyway. Give Yelle his waking papers and pay him half of the league minimum $225,000.00. All teams need to rebuild every few years, look at Tampa and the Islanders. We are at the door and need to walk through it, take our lumps for 2 to 3 years, then watch the Cup come back in 2012/13 season. Moves have to be made so we can fill the seats with single game tickets and that comes from wins. Without that revenue it is going to be hard to do what needs to be done to make us competitive.

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I dont need my 13 yr old to tell me that Pitkanen is a minus 6 with 18 penalty mins in only eight games. That's lazy hockey. The guy is not skating or hitting and that's what defensemen do. You cant blame AWard for this. Stick your head in the sand if you want. But the guys you think are keepers may be the guys that are in fact the problem. At this stage, there are no keepers on this team other than Cam. This team is not gelling and wont without some major changes. Guys like Pitkanen are great trade bait, because he's "perceived" as a good player. Dont be surprised if he's put up.

Talk about sticking your head in the sand.  Pitkanen trade bait.  That's a real laugher.

  

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


weehawk']I dont need my 13 yr old to tell me that Pitkanen is a minus 6 with 18 penalty mins in only eight games. That's lazy hockey. The guy is not skating or hitting and that's what defensemen do. You cant blame AWard for this. Stick your head in the sand if you want. But the guys you think are keepers may be the guys that are in fact the problem. At this stage, there are no keepers on this team other than Cam. This team is not gelling and wont without some major changes. Guys like Pitkanen are great trade bait, because he's "perceived" as a good player. Dont be surprised if he's put up.

Talk about sticking your head in the sand.  Pitkanen trade bait.  That's a real laugher.

  That's what I thought too coastal when I saw the original comment.  He's one of the few guys I've noticed in a positive manner on the ice.

When the whole team is tied for last in "goals for" and next to last in "goals against", how can you single Pitkanen out as the problem because of his plus/minus?

  

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I can see how someone can come across with a bad opinion of Pitkanen if all they saw was the San Jose game.  Although I agree that he is one of our best players, and one of the only bright spots on our team this year, his play on Sunday was terrible.  His usually stellar passing looked tentative, he made lots of mental errors in our zone, and of course there was that whole weird incident where he stood behind the net with the puck for 20 seconds waiting on Ward to get into position.

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