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How would you fix this mess?

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What motivation would Los Angeles have to move Justin Williams for scraps at this point? He's healthy and currently at a point-per-game pace, it appears that he likes it in Los Angeles and is a key component of a team that is on the way up in the NHL. Who's to say he would even want to come back to an organization that gave up on him just one year ago?

totally agree. why would he want to play for a team that is tied for last in the EC?

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Do Samsonov and Walker have NTCs? Moving them for draft picks and prospects would allow for Bowman and Boychuck to come up...may as well start rebuilding right now.
Walker does and right now he is actually one of the few guys playing with some energy and a will to win I'd let go of yelle for sure even if its just a demotion to albany

  

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[quote name='hockeybaby wrote:


Staal-to-Frolov']What motivation would Los Angeles have to move Justin Williams for scraps at this point? He's healthy and currently at a point-per-game pace, it appears that he likes it in Los Angeles and is a key component of a team that is on the way up in the NHL. Who's to say he would even want to come back to an organization that gave up on him just one year ago?

totally agree. why would he want to play for a team that is tied for last in the EC?

Great point made there,,,it might really be something that may hurt us trying to get another player.Not like anyone would wave a NTC to come here,plus the fact that other than our few big names no one is playing well enough for anyone else to want them,,right now!

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I didn't mean to offend, boss.  Sorry.  Thats why I put "in my opinion".  I just strongly disagree with you on this one. Hopefully a win tonight will make me less of a jerk.  Sorry to anyone i offended.   Let's Go 'Canes!!!

No offense taken, and I'm no boss.  It was slightly tongue in cheek.  I know that my opinion is controversial....I'm thick enough skinned to take some flak for it.  I'm just not so sure firing the coach and trading away Whitney or whoever right now is the solution here.  That is absolute panic.  Some of these losses have been flukey.  Tonight for instance....it is flukey we didn't have a goal in the first period....then we fell apart with penalties in the 2nd period....might have rushed Timmy back too quick.  3rd period...after their flukey goal, we skated defeated.  I'm also unimpressed with the lack of TOI given to Sutter tonight after his previous performance.  It seemed after his glimmers of hope in the first, Mo benched him for the rest of the game.  I just don't understand that at all.

  

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I'm also unimpressed with the lack of TOI given to Sutter tonight after his previous performance.  It seemed after his glimmers of hope in the first, Mo benched him for the rest of the game.  I just don't understand that at all.

  

That's just un-explainable to me.  He works his tail off and draws a penalty and gets no PP time.  The only real time he got was on the PK.

  

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


fpsndiver'] 

I'm also unimpressed with the lack of TOI given to Sutter tonight after his previous performance.  It seemed after his glimmers of hope in the first, Mo benched him for the rest of the game.  I just don't understand that at all.

  

That's just un-explainable to me.  He works his tail off and draws a penalty and gets no PP time.  The only real time he got was on the PK.

  

Poor coaching decisions?

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[quote name='hockeybaby wrote:


super-dave-1 wrote:

fpsndiver'] 

I'm also unimpressed with the lack of TOI given to Sutter tonight after his previous performance.  It seemed after his glimmers of hope in the first, Mo benched him for the rest of the game.  I just don't understand that at all.

  

That's just un-explainable to me.  He works his tail off and draws a penalty and gets no PP time.  The only real time he got was on the PK.

  

Poor coaching decisions?

I guess it's actually easily explained.  Thanks

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So who's on the short list to be dealt? I think we can all agree that the "get the band back together" tour has been a colossal disaster.

I'm hearing a lot of rumors about Whitney, which makes sense given he's 37, in the last year of his contract, and one of the few players on the team who could get some value in return given his performance.

But other than Whitney, who's next?

Matt Cullen is 30+ and also in the last year of his contract. If you consider that our top 3 centers of the future are likely Staal - Jokinen - Sutter, then I think Cullen will be shopped as well.

While Samsonov has a year left on his contract, he is set to make $2.8m in 2010-2011, which is too much for a guy who's not scoring 20 goals per season. I think we'll shop him as well.

Walker is also in the last year of his contract and is getting long in the tooth. I see a trade closer to the deadline to get him a shot at the Cup with a contender.

On the defense, Ward, Wallin and Corvo are all in the last year of their contracts. I think it's safe to say we should try and trade at least Ward and Wallin closer to the trade deadline to see if we can get some picks in return. They would likely welcome a shot at the Cup with someone in contention. Corvo is an interesting problem. While I think he's got some interesting trade value, the fact that we'll likely lose Ward and Wallin in the offseason suggests that we should either keep Joe and re-sign him or ensure that we're getting a top 4 defenseman in return, which is a neutral swap. Not sure we'd do that.

So if we assume that Whitney, Walker, Cullen, Samsonov, Ward and Wallin are not coming back for 2010-2011, then that's a fair amount of $$$ to help make a run at a 1st line winger for Staal. Plus we can assume a high draft pick if we stay at the bottom. That assumes we can either grab Taylor Hall (LW) or Cam Fowler (D) and, like Tavares, Hedman, Duchesne, go ahead and plug them right in. I assume Hall below.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2010-2011 Carolina Hurricanes:

Ruutu - Staal - FA 1st line winger

Boychuk - Jokinen - Cole

Hall ® - Sutter - Someone we get in trade/Bowman

K-Stop - Brind'amour - LaRose

On D:

Pitkanen - Gleason

Corvo - FA d-man

Alberts - McBain/Rodney

Ward/Leighton

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My opinion is Rutherford should be a busy man at the trade deadline... perhaps one of the busiest.  Sell, sell, sell... I would offer up all of the following in the hopes of boosting our drafts for the coming years:  Whitney, Cole, Cullen for the forwards and I would offer either Corvo or Pitkanen, whichever can bring back the greater return.  Brind'amour needs to be forced out.  I doubt anyone would want him at the trade deadline, so do what it takes to make sure this is his last year.  Send Yelle to Albany and any of the other summer signings.  Call up Boychuk, Bowman, Rodney, McBain.  I was hoping they could get more seasoning in Albany but if the Canes are gonna stink this bad, might as well accelerate the process a bit.

Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild.  With each passing day, last spring seems more and more like a total fluke!  It's time to start over.

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move the team and get back to NASCAR and BBall.

Staal and Ward got the big contracts and have not delivered...Brindy was selfish to come back, clearly MO was not the right call, in retrospect, A Ward should not have been brought back. All of JR's brilliant moves of the past...have caught up with his this time. Par for the course - after the 02 run, we tanked, after the 06 cup win, we tanked, and now after the 09 ECF, we have tanked. 

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Said this in the PGA, just repeating it here. JR must fire Maurice, it's a necessity now. The season, in its entirety, will be lost if things are allowed to stay the same. The players have lost all belief in themselves, and a losing mentality is quickly setting in. This cannot be allowed to fully happen. Again, Maurice is not entirely at fault here, but we just have to do something. We simply are too talented of a team to let this happen. Too much to risk as well with our fanbase and stuff to try and suffer through another 02-03.

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I heard a very interesting discussion by ESPN, and they said that Peter Laviolette is still being paid because he got fired but his contract has not expired. So, the same situation we have now with Paul Maurice... so really if we swapped them... we wouldn't lose much money because it would ALMOST be the same except flip-flipped with money and contracts. Now that being said... the only way I see us getting Lavi back is the front office giving him a sincere apology because after they fired him, they very much disrespected the guy who brought a Cup to Raleigh. I am not a basher of Mo or Lavi, I think the front office knows what's best for this team... but what I saw tonight... we get a 2 goal lead and we sit on it... LAVI would not have that...and we are now just lethargic and slow (the old MO-way)... but I saw some great speed from Sutter and Boychuck... and Lavi sure could change the system to be back where its more speed but still have defense and then boom fans come in... scoring goes up... Ward and everyone gains confidence... and we are back. That's just my 2 cents. Here is the link to the video I was speaking of......

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4623360

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I heard a very interesting discussion by ESPN, and they said that Peter Laviolette is still being paid because he got fired but his contract has not expired. So, the same situation we have now with Paul Maurice... so really if we swapped them... we wouldn't lose much money because it would ALMOST be the same except flip-flipped with money and contracts. Now that being said... the only way I see us getting Lavi back is the front office giving him a sincere apology because after they fired him, they very much disrespected the guy who brought a Cup to Raleigh. I am not a basher of Mo or Lavi, I think the front office knows what's best for this team... but what I saw tonight... we get a 2 goal lead and we sit on it... LAVI would not have that...and we are now just lethargic and slow (the old MO-way)... but I saw some great speed from Sutter and Boychuck... and Lavi sure could change the system to be back where its more speed but still have defense and then boom fans come in... scoring goes up... Ward and everyone gains confidence... and we are back. That's just my 2 cents. Here is the link to the video I was speaking of......

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4623360

Interesting thoughts but if I'm Laviolette, I wouldn't even consider coming back to place where I was forced out.  The coach is always the first one to take the fall so why would he even consider coming back to a similar group of players he struggled with last year?  Yes, I scratch my head at some of the coaching decisions made but I really think this is a player issue.  Individually, some of them play a great game but collectively as a group, they can't get it done.  Their best efforts aren't enough win games in this league right now.

  

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


Dukefan711']I heard a very interesting discussion by ESPN, and they said that Peter Laviolette is still being paid because he got fired but his contract has not expired. So, the same situation we have now with Paul Maurice... so really if we swapped them... we wouldn't lose much money because it would ALMOST be the same except flip-flipped with money and contracts. Now that being said... the only way I see us getting Lavi back is the front office giving him a sincere apology because after they fired him, they very much disrespected the guy who brought a Cup to Raleigh. I am not a basher of Mo or Lavi, I think the front office knows what's best for this team... but what I saw tonight... we get a 2 goal lead and we sit on it... LAVI would not have that...and we are now just lethargic and slow (the old MO-way)... but I saw some great speed from Sutter and Boychuck... and Lavi sure could change the system to be back where its more speed but still have defense and then boom fans come in... scoring goes up... Ward and everyone gains confidence... and we are back. That's just my 2 cents. Here is the link to the video I was speaking of......

Interesting thoughts but if I'm Laviolette, I wouldn't even consider coming back to place where I was forced out.  The coach is always the first one to take the fall so why would he even consider coming back to a similar group of players he struggled with last year?  Yes, I scratch my head at some of the coaching decisions made but I really think this is a player issue.  Individually, some of them play a great game but collectively as a group, they can't get it done.  Their best efforts aren't enough win games in this league right now.

  In addition to the above, I don't think we ever see Laviolette here after the public comments Karmonos made about him last year. Not to mention Laviolettes system was exactly working for us for two years either.  We went on to become the first team in the NHL to not make the playoffs the next two years after winning the cup under Laviolette.

I would also imagine the firing Maurice is not just a JR decision.  Karmonos would have to approve paying 3 coaches this year and two for the next two years.  Not sure how realistic that is when we have overspent our budget already.  They are going to be looking to cut payroll which is not going to be easy.  There are not many teams that are willing or able to take on extra salary.

Nobody is safe from blame and certainly coaching has a big part as well, but I agree with the above, this is on the players. 

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A coaching change will come, for the same reason it did last year... which is it is easier to get rid of 1 coach than it is to get rid of 4 or 5 players.Here is my question...If we are still paying Lavi and Mo is under contract too and we fire him and still have to pay him...than how do we afford to pay ANOTHER coach. My guess is someone we are already paying will be promoted so who will it be???

Just another random thought...can the teams that have gotten off to a fantastic start keep up the pace...example: Boston from last season...especially with the Olympic break and many of the players playing for their respective countries...

I'm going to stick with the "If you build it they will come" actually I can't think of the alternative... LETS GO CANES I refuse to believe that they will lose all 67 game that are left... They will at some point play a team that is having in "off" night and WIN and since I am committed to watch every game I will see it and be renewed...

It's seasons like this that you have to remember "YOU LOVE THE GAME" and winning is just a bonus...wink.gif

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I disagree about getting rid of the players.  Fortunately, this year we have a lot of veteran contracts expiring which increases the potential to get rid of some of the old vets.  Teams are much likely to give a guy a change of scenary if they only have to rent them for a partial season.  Brindy will be tricky to get rid of but as the play of team goes on I think the screws will get turned on him even more.  You saw a little bit last year when they sent him home from Vancouver, you saw some this year with the move to wing, and i am sure there will be more to come maybe even a healthy scratch. 

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I can understand the general sentiment about a coaching change. In most cases if a team gets off to the start we have gotten off to, the coach would go.

I do think that a coaching change will get put on the table at some point, but not now for this team. The reasons are:

1. This same team had phenomenal results under Maurice last year. He just could not have done that if he were this terrible of a coach.

2. The team simply does not have proven finishers on the team. Last night there were lots of chances, few goals. That is not the coach. We don't have enough guys who can drive fast and create offense and finish.

3. We just changed coaches.

4. The first move will be a player shake up.

5. We are already paying two coaches, we will be slow to add a third, if we do it will definitely be a promotion from within.

How to proceed depends on two things. How long is Staal out, and do we put together a few wins?

If Staal is short-term and we run off a few wins in the near term, then all is not lost and we can make moves with this year still in mind.

In that case we need to move Brind'Amour now. Either trade him or move him upstairs. Have the talk. The Canes will not go on a win streak with him on the team. There have been long stretches of terrible hockey under two different coaches with Brind'Amour getting the emperor's treatment that ended immediately when he was moved/demoted, there is a chance that this is the same. I know this upsets many, but this is the only feasible single move that could have dramatic immediate results. I am increasingly convinced of this. It may not work, but it has twice in the past and what else is there?

If Staal is out long term and we run off a near term record that is significantly on the losing side, then this season is history. Do whatever you want with Brind'Amour. Get some yutes up here, try to get some value in trade for a couple of vets: Whitney, Sammy, Jokinen, Cole, Corvo, even Cullen. Corvo has some sweet moves and a nice shot, but he makes many bad plays. If he has trade value move him. Corvo and Whitney for a potential first liner? I don't know. Anyway, get that really high draft pick and clear salary to try to pick up a top (just sub Staal/Ward salary) winger whenever they come open (trade deadline, or more likely next year off season).

So, ultimately must do something with Brind'Amour. If this season is lost, clear cap space, bring up the youngsters, and make one or two judicious trades. Then next year get a high pick and cap space for a top winger to fill in with whoever is left, and try to go from worst to first. If we had a really top playmaker with Staal and an NHL ready first pick, and Sutter and Boychuk, to fill in with a few who remain, Brindy is gone or upstairs, and Staal is captain, and Ward finds his form, we could be pretty darned good. And with a future to boot. It could work.

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We have a team of inconsistent players.  When things go their way, they can be very effective, but when they don't, they don't produce. 

If this were an issue of coaching or effort, then they wouldn't be called inconsistent.  They would be underperforming talent.  But they are failing to finish because they just aren't that good not because they are lazy superstars.  I know everyone loves Chad Larose,  but the guy's abilities, like many on the team, are marginal at best.  In situations where a top player converts 60% of the time, our guys convert 20% of the time.  And really it just comes down to chance like that kid with the real hard shot from the mighty ducks.  Rod isn't putting his shot from the slot off the outside of the post because he doesn't care or Mo didn't tell him to put it in the net.  He's just doesn't have great aim.  The same with pretty much the entire team. 

The good news:  We were heading towards some rebuilding seasons.  Next year was going to be the year to dump some veterans, get the kids some tryouts, and probably not be very good.  But if we continue to suck, they get their chance this year.  And if we suck enough, we get a top 3 pick in the draft.  Everyone wants that winger for Staal, well we're never getting it in free agency.  But a top 3 pick could do the trick.  Could also be someone ready to contribute fairly quickly if they go that high?

The point being that a season of complete failure was inevitable.  This might be a nice year to have it given the state of the team.  It has potential to be a very fast rebuilding effort when we come back with some of the younger more talented forwards and a slew of young guys who already have a year under their belt, a long rejuvenating healthy summer, and a shiny new top 3 draft pick on top?

It stinks to lose a season, but it had to happen eventually, might as well make it count!

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