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The Paul Maurice Thread (retitled)

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Thanks for props but I guess I should clarify a few things.  I completely agree that Brind'Amour is struggling and has struggled for more than this season.  I guess where I agree with formerwhalerfan is that the whole team is struggling and I dont particularly see how one person can be singled out as a cause.  There's enough blame to go around for just about everyone involved from the players all the way up to the owner. 

I don't see how Marleau and Brind'Amour's situation can be compared.  I don't follow the Sharks too closely but from what I understand, his under performance had to do with coaching conflicts and the fact that the Sharks have never won anything, Marleau led them to nothing.  Brind'Amour helped win it all here and agree with it or not, winning is everything in this league and those players and teams that win it all get the respect and more times than not, the benefit of the doubt.

Changing the leadership of the team ( and Im not disagreeing with that idea) needs to be done in the off season when a player can bow out respectfully and turn over the reigns to his successor.  If the C gets stripped, thats no different than firing the coach mid season and demoralizing him in front of his family and peers.  Is that really the message we want to give Brind'Amour?  I'm not saying its not time for a change but its too late to do it right for this season and imo, Brind'Amour is giving the most that he can.  Stripping the C wont make his performance better but just might make it worse.   This organization prides itself on class and as a fan, I wouldn't want it any other way.

Demoralizing him? He has the responsibility to lead this team and plays professional hockey for a living. Not to mention he is getting paid over $3 Million this season. He is falling short and has not been executing for the 2nd consecutive season. DEMORALIZING is watching him play 20 min per game.  It is DEMORALIZING to the team.  We saw the energy on the team when he is not on the ice MORE than once.

Is it the message we want to give Brind'Amour? ABSOLUTELY.  There is nothing wrong with being held accountable for failing to execute.  Sure it is not just Brind'Amour but he was playing bad when we were playing good last season. Having him keep the "C" or stripping the "C" won't effect his poor 20+ minute performance per game.   Class? We showed class last year by allowing him to play the entire season.  Enough is enough.  Sure it will hurt those living in the past but we need to move on.

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Obviously hockey is a business first and foremost. Fans are emotionally involved in the game and with favorite players. Brindy has been awesome for this team, but it is time to retire, or at least have alot less ice time. I watched him closely in the last game, and he coughed the puck up against the boards SO many times. I don't know why he is killing pen alties either.

Wesley left when he knew the tank was just about empty. He didn't cost this team games, and the fans were not resentful/angry/upset with his level of play, as he retired before it showed on the ice.

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mad.gifrod's not what he was a couple of years ago,,no face off wins(for anyone on the team),,slower,,bad passes to the center ice area.big contracts, and less desire,,some of the key players have landed their big fat contracts and looks to have loss the desire to advance futher..lets see how the team does w/out cam,,it should prove my point,,we'll have someone in the net wanting that big money and most likely will make cam look bad,,,we'll see in a week or two. staal is hurt,,most likely his feelings instead of an upper body problem....time will telll...on man dead last in the whole league,,can you beleive it.. somebody has dropped the puck for sure...

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mad.gifrod's not what he was a couple of years ago,,no face off wins(for anyone on the team),,slower,,bad passes to the center ice area.big contracts, and less desire,,some of the key players have landed their big fat contracts and looks to have loss the desire to advance futher..lets see how the team does w/out cam,,it should prove my point,,we'll have someone in the net wanting that big money and most likely will make cam look bad,,,we'll see in a week or two. staal is hurt,,most likely his feelings instead of an upper body problem....time will telll...on man dead last in the whole league,,can you beleive it.. somebody has dropped the puck for sure...
Oh wow...  Do you honestly think that just because some of these guys got fat paychecks in the offseason, they have less desire to win??  I'm pretty sure that no matter what they're making they all want the Cup.  This is hockey, not the NBA.  

And on a similar note, do you really think Staal wasn't playing well because his feelings were hurt???  Again...this is hockey, not a high school gymnastics team.  

Lastly, while I definitely hope Legace does well and sparks the team to turn things around, I can't imagine in a billion years he's going to make Cam Ward look bad.  Yes, Cam has had his lapses this season.  Some his fault, some the defense's fault.  But, overall I think he's kept us afloat and were it not for him, most of these losses would have been a lot more lopsided.  

If I may borrow from Seth Myers and Amy Poehler... "Really!?!?!  Really?  Really????"

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[quote name=northwestnc wrote:


mad.gifrod's not what he was a couple of years ago,,no face off wins(for anyone on the team),,slower,,bad passes to the center ice area.big contracts, and less desire,,some of the key players have landed their big fat contracts and looks to have loss the desire to advance futher..lets see how the team does w/out cam,,it should prove my point,,we'll have someone in the net wanting that big money and most likely will make cam look bad,,,we'll see in a week or two. staal is hurt,,most likely his feelings instead of an upper body problem....time will telll...on man dead last in the whole league,,can you beleive it.. somebody has dropped the puck for sure...
northwestnc]mad.gifrod's not what he was a couple of years ago,,no face off wins(for anyone on the team),,slower,,bad passes to the center ice area.big contracts, and less desire,,some of the key players have landed their big fat contracts and looks to have loss the desire to advance futher..lets see how the team does w/out cam,,it should prove my point,,we'll have someone in the net wanting that big money and most likely will make cam look bad,,,we'll see in a week or two. staal is hurt,,most likely his feelings instead of an upper body problem....time will telll...on man dead last in the whole league,,can you beleive it.. somebody has dropped the puck for sure...
Oh wow...  Do you honestly think that just because some of these guys got fat paychecks in the offseason, they have less desire to win??  I'm pretty sure that no matter what they're making they all want the Cup.  This is hockey, not the NBA.  

And on a similar note, do you really think Staal wasn't playing well because his feelings were hurt???  Again...this is hockey, not a high school gymnastics team.  

Lastly, while I definitely hope Legace does well and sparks the team to turn things around, I can't imagine in a billion years he's going to make Cam Ward look bad.  Yes, Cam has had his lapses this season.  Some his fault, some the defense's fault.  But, overall I think he's kept us afloat and were it not for him, most of these losses would have been a lot more lopsided.  

If I may borrow from Seth Myers and Amy Poehler... "Really!?!?!  Really?  Really????"

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Demoralizing him? He has the responsibility to lead this team and plays professional hockey for a living. Not to mention he is getting paid over $3 Million this season. He is falling short and has not been executing for the 2nd consecutive season. DEMORALIZING is watching him play 20 min per game.  It is DEMORALIZING to the team.  We saw the energy on the team when he is not on the ice MORE than once.

Is it the message we want to give Brind'Amour? ABSOLUTELY.  There is nothing wrong with being held accountable for failing to execute.  Sure it is not just Brind'Amour but he was playing bad when we were playing good last season. Having him keep the "C" or stripping the "C" won't effect his poor 20+ minute performance per game.   Class? We showed class last year by allowing him to play the entire season.  Enough is enough.  Sure it will hurt those living in the past but we need to move on.

   Fair enough but there are other ways to hold someone accountable.  I just don't think stripping him of the C will accomplish anything at this point and if the changing of the guard is what was needed, it should have been done over the off season imo

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I respect Roddy and you could never measure his huge contributions to this team in the past. He was very good for a long time and no one is going to "strip" him of anything. That is going to have to be a voluntary act by Brindy. He respects Ronnie Francis and I think Ronnie's the one who's going to have to whisper in his hear that his time is over. Roddy can't ignore the fact that his blind passes to the middle result in unfortunate turnovers that hurt the team. (I think Brindy turns the puck over more than anyone else on the team). He's definitely lost a step (or three) and I think he will have to make a tough decision or risk being traded. Bottom line, the team would be better without him now.

As far as Mo goes, I'm neutral. I hate the musical coaches idea, but I also see an argument for it. This team needs a shrink more than anything. They are the best/worst team ever. They have moments of brilliance when they look like they could beat any team anywhere, then the next shift they're tripping over their floppy shoes and orange noses. With the amount of talent on this team, they could very easily be leading the Southeast, but mental let-downs and inconsistent play are beating them.

I don't have the answers, but I hope they straighten their heads out soon.

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As long as Brindy is a Cane he will be the captain. He has earned it.

As for Mo. I don't know.I was mystified when he was hired back. I was skeptical but he did the job last year. I don't think we can blame all our problems on MO. But at sometime it is the coach that will pay for bad team play

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I have discovered over the years...when there is nothing to talk about, anything will be discussed  laugh.gif
I think its just the opposite.  When so many things are going wrong with the team, there's a whole host of things to talk about.  When there's nothing to talk about, members turn their focus on each other which never turns out good.

  

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Lot's of you want Roddy to just retire because he doesn't have it any more.  What he does have is a guaranteed contract that is worth 3.6 mil this season and 3.6 mil next season.  I'm not walking away from 7.2 million dollars and neither would any of you.  PK is still on the hook for his salary if he is benched or waived so there's nothing to be gained there.  Nobody is going to pick him up if waived and I'm not sure if anybody would claim him on re-entry with another year on the deal.  Stripping him of the C isn't going to matter as long as he is in the locker room.  If Rod wanted to give it up, that's another issue.

I can see him being bought out after this season but not until.

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Lot's of you want Roddy to just retire because he doesn't have it any more.  What he does have is a guaranteed contract that is worth 3.6 mil this season and 3.6 mil next season.  I'm not walking away from 7.2 million dollars and neither would any of you.  PK is still on the hook for his salary if he is benched or waived so there's nothing to be gained there.  Nobody is going to pick him up if waived and I'm not sure if anybody would claim him on re-entry with another year on the deal.  Stripping him of the C isn't going to matter as long as he is in the locker room.  If Rod wanted to give it up, that's another issue.

I can see him being bought out after this season but not until.

you bring up a good point... he's not going to walk away from millions of dollars.  however, i have always respected Roddy because he is a TEAM guy.  i really feel like he's played his heart out for the canes... not for the money, but for the team.  I also think he has taken his status as captain very seriously.  i'd be willing to bet he's seriously considering retirement before he hurts the team (anymore) that he dedicated so much hard work to.

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Lot's of you want Roddy to just retire because he doesn't have it any more.  What he does have is a guaranteed contract that is worth 3.6 mil this season and 3.6 mil next season.  I'm not walking away from 7.2 million dollars and neither would any of you.  PK is still on the hook for his salary if he is benched or waived so there's nothing to be gained there.  Nobody is going to pick him up if waived and I'm not sure if anybody would claim him on re-entry with another year on the deal.  Stripping him of the C isn't going to matter as long as he is in the locker room.  If Rod wanted to give it up, that's another issue.

I can see him being bought out after this season but not until.

Well this season is toast anyway. Perhaps Brind'Amour deserves to be paid $3.6 million to continue to compile the worst plus/minus in the league again, this year. Put him on the 4th line and move on. But another year of that with no response by management heading into next year would be disastrous.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


super-dave-1']Lot's of you want Roddy to just retire because he doesn't have it any more.  What he does have is a guaranteed contract that is worth 3.6 mil this season and 3.6 mil next season.  I'm not walking away from 7.2 million dollars and neither would any of you.  PK is still on the hook for his salary if he is benched or waived so there's nothing to be gained there.  Nobody is going to pick him up if waived and I'm not sure if anybody would claim him on re-entry with another year on the deal.  Stripping him of the C isn't going to matter as long as he is in the locker room.  If Rod wanted to give it up, that's another issue.

I can see him being bought out after this season but not until.

Well this season is toast anyway. Perhaps Brind'Amour deserves to be paid $3.6 million to continue to compile the worst plus/minus in the league again, this year. Put him on the 4th line and move on. But another year of that with no response by management heading into next year would be disastrous.

A buyout this summer would cost 1.2 mil for the next 2 years.  That's where I see this ending up.  After we buy him out, he can sign with another team if he wants to continue playing (if there are any takers).  Nobody is taking him off our hands with that contract.

As far as whether or not he "deserves to be paid $3.6 million to continue to compile the worst plus/minus in the league again", that doesn't really matter.  He's under contract and he deserves to get paid.  In "rainbows and lollipops land" he holds a press conference and retires.  Since this isn't "rainbows and lollipops land" we will continue to pay him.  I see the answer as Sutter on the third line and Brindy on the 4th after some move is made to clear a roster spot (another forward traded).

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


remkin wrote:

super-dave-1']Lot's of you want Roddy to just retire because he doesn't have it any more.  What he does have is a guaranteed contract that is worth 3.6 mil this season and 3.6 mil next season.  I'm not walking away from 7.2 million dollars and neither would any of you.  PK is still on the hook for his salary if he is benched or waived so there's nothing to be gained there.  Nobody is going to pick him up if waived and I'm not sure if anybody would claim him on re-entry with another year on the deal.  Stripping him of the C isn't going to matter as long as he is in the locker room.  If Rod wanted to give it up, that's another issue.

I can see him being bought out after this season but not until.

Well this season is toast anyway. Perhaps Brind'Amour deserves to be paid $3.6 million to continue to compile the worst plus/minus in the league again, this year. Put him on the 4th line and move on. But another year of that with no response by management heading into next year would be disastrous.

A buyout this summer would cost 1.2 mil for the next 2 years.  That's where I see this ending up.  After we buy him out, he can sign with another team if he wants to continue playing (if there are any takers).  Nobody is taking him off our hands with that contract.

As far as whether or not he "deserves to be paid $3.6 million to continue to compile the worst plus/minus in the league again", that doesn't really matter.  He's under contract and he deserves to get paid.  In "rainbows and lollipops land" he holds a press conference and retires.  Since this isn't "rainbows and lollipops land" we will continue to pay him.  I see the answer as Sutter on the third line and Brindy on the 4th after some move is made to clear a roster spot (another forward traded).I can live with a buyout at the end of the year. I can live with him on the 4th line the rest of this year. 

Whether he deserves to be paid $3.6 million does matter in discussion-land. I mean nothing we write here really matters. It is all opinion. Some seem to opine that because he has meant so much to the team in the past and has a contract that he should remain on the team, as the captain as long as he feels that he would like to stay. That he deserves that for what he has done for the team. That's where the "deserves" word came from. 

Of course he will actually be paid since he has a contract. But he is no longer worth it. Not even close. So in the only reason he deserves the money is because he got the contract, but it isn't good for the team to be paying that kind of money to a guy while he compiles the worst plus minus in the league for the second year running and drags the entire team down with him. I would buy him out the day Staal is back if there were any hope for this season. But since there isn't, then 4th line is fine. 

Of course that's just my opinion.

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Well. of course, FIRSTLY - full respect to all players, coaches and management of the club.

  

IMHO J R made this season the way it is by believing in old team... but it is 2009-10, not 2005-6 - guys way older. Bayda, Babchuk, Seidenberg - lost over the summer in exchange for Alberts, Yelle and Kostopulus... well, we see it works.

P M is also not making miracles - having goalies out 2-3 minutes before the end - too risky. Proven twice (at least) - it is a desperation, not a strategy.

Injuries - well - yes, but Sutter and Boychuk are most noticeable players now, isn't it?

(Get better everyone, especially Cam).

I think decisions to be made soon. Hope it will be right decisions.

Go Canes!

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Here's an idea, can we bring Lavi back???? At this point I think anything is better than what is happening right now!!

After the public comments made by Karmonos about Laviolette after releasing him last year, I think we have a greater chance of seeing Stormy flying over the RBC Center.  Besides, I do not think this team needs another sideshow circus of bringing back yet another fired coach.  These coaches were fired for a reason, I hope they learned their lesson this time.

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I think we should be collectively ashamed at how we're treating Rod Brind'amour. No one has given more heart and soul to this team over the years than the Captain. I'm certain he is not the one dictating what line he plays on, who he plays with or otherwise, this year. Since he's been on the 4th line he's been playing okay. Why would any of us demand he retire, or take a pay cut or anything else, when he earned, negotiated, whatever, the money he's making today? It's not enough he was a key member of all of our playoff teams in the past 8 years? How does he compare to some other team captains' whose teams haven't sniffed the success the Canes have seen this decade?

Sure, we REALLY want to win. We expect to be competitive each and every year. But we also need to be realistic. In the age of Free Agency, Salary Caps, CBAs, etc., parity and player movement is here to stay.

I suggest we've been pretty darn good over the past 10 years, all things considered, and Rod has played a big role. Let's celebrate him. Do we want to pay $3M for a 4th line center? No. But we are. So what? We still have a lower payroll than many teams, and we've seen Stanley. I for one apprecaite that and will support Rod and the team regardless.

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Well, as far as Rod Brind'Amour, as Captain, he needs to find a way to lead this team. The hard part is that there are 2 ways to lead. One is bringing the absolute best out of others and the other is to lead by simply being the best. Rod, in his 'glory days' led this team by being the best, in everything. Stripping him of his 'C' won't do much good, because he'll still be on the team. All the "staal plays better when brind'amour is not around" theories, whether they're true or now, wouldn't even kick into effect. Trading him away without him asking is something that I just don't see happening. The new leadership role brind'amour plays needs to be clear. As much as I like Rod Brind'Amour, it saddens me to see him skating circles around the ice when the team is "trying" to protect a 1 goal lead in a close game, killing a penalty in a really close game, etc. So, that leadership goal needs to be redefined for Captain. (Perhaps he could just stay off the ice and be pete friesen's assistant?)

and now for Mo...
Inorder to compete, any coach in the league has to have total committment from his players. With Maurice's system, one of the reasons it was effective last spring down the stretch and into the playoffs was because, instead of sitting around "trapping" the other team, the Canes were doing the same thing by attacking the other team. As long as that attack was there, they were arguable the best team in the league. There was a tremendous amount of passion, grit, determination, all those nice words, and attack with the Canes. They trusted eachother and knew that if they played that way, they would always have a chance at winning. Now it seems as if the attack, passion and determination are gone, and all that is left is an out of proportion trust that by sitting around and playing just the plain old Mo system + nothing else = 2nd half of last season

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I agree with a lot of what has been said here.  Brind'Amour and Maurice are with us for the duration of this season at least.  I think that JR has made it clear that he supports Paul and we don't really have the luxury of having two ex-coaches still on the payroll.  The earliest that we'll see Paul Maurice out of here is if we stink it up next season too.  As for Brind'Amour, I have tons of respect for this guy.  Sure, he's down now and is likely looking at the end of a wonderful career, but I don't think that the long-term of this team will be improved if we do something like waive him or strip him of the captaincy.  A trade just isn't possible because Rod has another year on his contract and no one will want to swallow that.  Next summer will be interesting.  If things continue as they have been, I would expect Brindy to strongly consider retirement.  That being said, I don't think any of us would be too surprised if he elected to play his final year.  Rod has enormous pride and though it may lead him to make a questionable decision in playing out his contract, it is also the same thing that enabled him to be such a wonderful player and captain.  I would like to see him leave on his own terms.

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Anytime firing the coach is suggested, my question is always.....Who would you suggest Maurice's replacement should be?  Francis, AHL coach, Ted Nolan, someone else?  No point in talking about firing Maurice, unless there is a viable replacement in mind.

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Mo was just on NHL Live on the NHLN.  Good interview.  I don't think Mo is the problem, not even close. 
I heard it on XM today too.  I wish I could find a link because I thought he was very up front and candid about all the problems going on here, and he didn't hesitate to take his share of the responsibility.  The funniest comment had to be when EJ asked him about his relationship with JR and if he was worried about losing his job.  Maurice replied (and I'm sure I'm not doing it any justice) that him and JR are very good friends but when the season starts its all business.  JR will continue to support the coaching staff but when JR thinks its time for a change, "We'll all get fired." 

Someone needs to find that link because it was a pretty funny and honest interview.  I thought he came across genuine and seemed to have a good pulse on where they all were as a team and as an organization.   I was most impressed about things the things he said in support of JR describing him as someone who makes decisions based on what he truly thinks is the right thing to do.  JR has no ego and doesn't care about what others may think as long as its right for what he truly believes in.  I also found it very interesting how he was able to simplify all the problems this team is experiencing and keep them on a basic fundamental level.  I bet it was a cliffs notes version of what he says in the locker room and at practices. 

Not trying to convince the "Mo Must Go" brigade of anything but it was a very interesting interview.

Unless he's an amazing actor, I don't think he's the cause of all the woes this year either.  He definitely has his part in all this as does JR, but IMO the majority of the blame falls on the players themselves, and I think they know it too.

    

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