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Let the Canes trade rumor talks begin in the media

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Yah, the thing is the very thing that will get Whitney to waive his NTC is to get a new contract. Almost by definition if he is traded he won't be back. I am a major Whitney fan, but for a team looking to getting younger he is not the answer. He has had an awesome career but his age is going to hit him one of these days. 

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Dreger today:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=309944

Ray Whitney is still a member of the Carolina Hurricanes, despite talk of a possible trade leading up to Friday's Olympic deadline freeze.

The Los Angeles Kings still have interest in the 37-year-old, who has 45 points this season, including 17 goals and 28 assists.

Carolina believes they will get a first round pick and a prospect inreturn for Whitney, who wants an extension and would waive his no-tradeclause for a two-year extension.

Originally, when this trade was proposed to him, he asked for a three-year extension and Los Angeles countered with one-year.

If the Kings were to give the extra year, this trade would likely happen.

It remains in a holding pattern and will likely be a deadline deal.

---------------------------

I'd love to see Whitney stay with the core.

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This was today's Spectors report.  Absolutely nothing new in here except this is the first time in a while that the "media" is conceding that Whitney will be a rental.  Seems like once that info on the failed LA trade was leaked, everyone got on the "he won't waive without an extension" bandwagon.

Bruce Garrioch reports the following: It's believed the WashingtonCapitals are sniffing around the goalie market but their options arelimited. Dallas' Marty Turco, Montreal's Jaroslav Halak and theIslanders Martin Biron are listed as options but Turco's contract isexpensive, the Canadiens likely won't part with Halak now and Bironisn't the answer for a Cup contender team...NY Rangers forward BrandonDubinsky has been mentioned in trade rumors of late as the Rangersmight be up to something...Sources confirmed the Bruins have helddiscussions with three teams about Tim Thomas and aren't ruling outmoving him at the trade deadline. They'll wait until they have a dealin place before asking Thomas to waive his "no-movement" clause...TheBlue Jackets are trying to move Raffi Torres, Jan Hejda and MilanJurcina...Garrioch wonders if Florida's Tomas Vokoun might waive his"no-trade" clause to be dealt to the Flyers...Florida could also movecenter Stephen Weiss to the Toronto Maple Leafs...
Ray Whitney will bemoved at the trade deadline and he'll be a rental player. The askingprice is believed a first round pick and a young player who can chip inright away.
SPECTOR'S NOTE: For better or worse the Capitals willprobably stick with their current goalies...Halak won't be traded,Turco's salary makes him difficult to move and Biron is at best now abackup, not a starter...I think it would be a big mistake on theRangers part if they trade Dubinsky for a quick fix...I don't believeThomas will be traded...Torres is the most likely of the Blue Jacketsnoted above to be dealt...The Flyers would have to free up considerablecap space to make room for Vokoun, which is why they might have toconsider more affordable options if Ray Emery is out again...ThePanthers are thin at center so they might hang onto Weiss...
I agreethat Whitney will be a rental player, it just remains to be seen whichteam will pay the asking price.

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This was today's Spectors report.  Absolutely nothing new in here except this is the first time in a while that the "media" is conceding that Whitney will be a rental.  Seems like once that info on the failed LA trade was leaked, everyone got on the "he won't waive without an extension" bandwagon.

.
Ray Whitney will bemoved at the trade deadline and he'll be a rental player. The askingprice is believed a first round pick and a young player who can chip inright away.

SPECTOR'S NOTE: s...
I agreethat Whitney will be a rental player, it just remains to be seen whichteam will pay the asking price.

I would hope he is just a rental. That would mean we have a chance, if we want, to get him back next season. Of course at 37 Whitney must now look out for himself and we must decide how best to rebuild. Still I would rather have Whitney go as a rental and keep the hope alive that he might find his way home at the end of the season. 

(it is going to be a long 2 weeks)

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I just don't get the big deal about his age, I don't care if he's 60 Ray can produce especially the ways he' s played this year and of late. I understand this whole were trying to get younger thing but Cullen and Whitney are still big time players and seem to fit our system better than other teams.(I just watched the Sens play the NYI and Cully's ice time was 10:08, it seemed like he was off the ice as soon as he got on it, last night was just over 14 min.) but I hope Whit is just a rental and JR atleast tries to resign him during the summer and Matt, but Ray doesn't even have to continue to play on the 1st line even though he's proved it doesn't faze him and he can play against any line. Id give him a 3 year extension in a second because he's earned it and we all know he won't lack production say 3 years from now, especially in our system, ok Im done venting now.

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I just don't get the big deal about his age, I don't care if he's 60 Ray can produce especially the ways he' s played this year and of late. I understand this whole were trying to get younger thing but Cullen and Whitney are still big time players and seem to fit our system better than other teams.(I just watched the Sens play the NYI and Cully's ice time was 10:08, it seemed like he was off the ice as soon as he got on it, last night was just over 14 min.) but I hope Whit is just a rental and JR atleast tries to resign him during the summer and Matt, but Ray doesn't even have to continue to play on the 1st line even though he's proved it doesn't faze him and he can play against any line. Id give him a 3 year extension in a second because he's earned it and we all know he won't lack production say 3 years from now, especially in our system, ok Im done venting now.

Thats what they thought about Brindy too.  Hey he's only 37, but he can produce lets extend him until he's 40 at 3 million a season.  Well an injury or two later, we have an "elderly" NHL player who can no longer produce and have 3 million dollars tied up when we could be bringing in Young Guns.  I totally understand why Rutherford or whoever would be cautious in resigning a player of that age any longer than 2 years.

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I just don't get the big deal about his age, I don't care if he's 60 Ray can produce especially the ways he' s played this year and of late. I understand this whole were trying to get younger thing but Cullen and Whitney are still big time players and seem to fit our system better than other teams.(I just watched the Sens play the NYI and Cully's ice time was 10:08, it seemed like he was off the ice as soon as he got on it, last night was just over 14 min.) but I hope Whit is just a rental and JR atleast tries to resign him during the summer and Matt, but Ray doesn't even have to continue to play on the 1st line even though he's proved it doesn't faze him and he can play against any line. Id give him a 3 year extension in a second because he's earned it and we all know he won't lack production say 3 years from now, especially in our system, ok Im done venting now.
That's just the kind of thinking that got Brindy signed to a 5 year deal at over 35. 

Edit: apstatefan, you beat me to it.  

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


CaniacTillIDie']I just don't get the big deal about his age, I don't care if he's 60 Ray can produce especially the ways he' s played this year and of late. I understand this whole were trying to get younger thing but Cullen and Whitney are still big time players and seem to fit our system better than other teams.(I just watched the Sens play the NYI and Cully's ice time was 10:08, it seemed like he was off the ice as soon as he got on it, last night was just over 14 min.) but I hope Whit is just a rental and JR atleast tries to resign him during the summer and Matt, but Ray doesn't even have to continue to play on the 1st line even though he's proved it doesn't faze him and he can play against any line. Id give him a 3 year extension in a second because he's earned it and we all know he won't lack production say 3 years from now, especially in our system, ok Im done venting now.

That's just the kind of thinking that got Brindy signed to a 5 year deal at over 35. 

Edit: apstatefan, you beat me to it.  

Great minds think alike

But it's true, thats why they teach history in school, so you don't repeat it

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[quote name='Appstatecanesfan wrote:


super-dave-1 wrote:

CaniacTillIDie']I just don't get the big deal about his age, I don't care if he's 60 Ray can produce especially the ways he' s played this year and of late. I understand this whole were trying to get younger thing but Cullen and Whitney are still big time players and seem to fit our system better than other teams.(I just watched the Sens play the NYI and Cully's ice time was 10:08, it seemed like he was off the ice as soon as he got on it, last night was just over 14 min.) but I hope Whit is just a rental and JR atleast tries to resign him during the summer and Matt, but Ray doesn't even have to continue to play on the 1st line even though he's proved it doesn't faze him and he can play against any line. Id give him a 3 year extension in a second because he's earned it and we all know he won't lack production say 3 years from now, especially in our system, ok Im done venting now.

That's just the kind of thinking that got Brindy signed to a 5 year deal at over 35. 

Edit: apstatefan, you beat me to it.
  

Great minds think alike

But it's true, thats why they teach history in school, so you don't repeat itThere are currently 19 players in the league older than Ray (and we know who one of those is).  If you play the odds, it doesn't make a lot of sense to sign a player that will be 38 years old by the end of the season to a deal longer than a year.  I know these things get all tied up with our favorite players and what these guys have meant to the team but we don't want to go through another Brind a'mour deal.  J.R. felt like Roddy would make it easily because of the way he took care of his body.  If the knee injuries didn't occur, things may have worked out.  If Brindy hadn't been in his late 30's he may have been able to bounce back from the injuries. 

Age is undefeated.  Ray is going to lose that battle too one day.  You never know when it's coming and all of a sudden you're a step slower than everybody on the ice.

  

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Assuming that Ray Whitney will be traded for a top prospect and a first round pick, then the two prospects I would be exuberant to see wear a Canes sweater are Matt Lashoff (Tampa Bay) or Simon Despres (Pittsburgh). Both are well developed prospects projecting to be Top-4, shutdown D0men (though Lashoff has some offensive upside). Here are their hockeysfuture links

Despres http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/simon_despres

Lashoff http://www.hockeysfuture....eams/tampa_bay_lightning

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


Appstatecanesfan wrote:


super-dave-1']That's just the kind of thinking that got Brindy signed to a 5 year deal at over 35. 

Edit: apstatefan, you beat me to it.
  

Great minds think alike

But it's true, thats why they teach history in school, so you don't repeat it
There are currently 19 players in the league older than Ray (and we know who one of those is).  If you play the odds, it doesn't make a lot of sense to sign a player that will be 38 years old by the end of the season to a deal longer than a year.  I know these things get all tied up with our favorite players and what these guys have meant to the team but we don't want to go through another Brind a'mour deal.  J.R. felt like Roddy would make it easily because of the way he took care of his body.  If the knee injuries didn't occur, things may have worked out.  If Brindy hadn't been in his late 30's he may have been able to bounce back from the injuries. 

Age is undefeated.  Ray is going to lose that battle too one day.  You never know when it's coming and all of a sudden you're a step slower than everybody on the ice.

  It would be nice if they could do what they did with Glen Wesley and go 1 year at a time with a ntc for family security.  Im not a big fan of the ntc'c but for only 1 year and for a player we know fits in well, a 1 year deal may be worth the risk of not being able to move him if the season heads south.  Its the multi year deals with ntc's that can bite you if you end up a seller.

I guess we'll all see soon enough what JR and Ray's real intentions are.  If you read into what we're hearing, sure sounds like Whitney and Cullen or at least one of them have a chance of coming back again.

    

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This may sound cold, but start thinking about the Canes "going in a different direction" minus Whitney. That is the mindset that JR MUST have in transacting with this next, critical move. Right now, Ray is most valuable, and commands a 1st round pick. That is the new direction.

If Ray is a rental, he is gladly welcomed back. However, only for no more than a 2 year deal, and without a NTC. I'd prefer a 1 year deal, but that would be near impossible vs what Ray could command elsewhere. Why? Well, if the Canes are in rebuild mode next year, then I rent him again. If the Canes are competitive, then he stays to help the Canes.

Maybe a 1 year deal with an option, where his pay is higher for the risk he takes. Otherwise, a 2 year deal, but at a lower pay compared to the one year w/option deal. No 3 year deal by the Canes for a 37 year old player. Focus on the different direction.

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I cant remember what the age requirement is (35?) but wouldn't Whitney be eligible for an incentive laden contract like Brendan Shanahan had for the Rangers and the Devils?  I have no idea how the incentive bonus's affect the cap but it would help with the salary hit.

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I feel like a 2 year deal with a NTC some where in the neighborhood of 3 mil with some incentives could work.  Then if he's still a solid 20 goal guy after that, we start with the 1 year deals.  Depends on if he really wants to be here, or if its all about the cash.

slightly OT, but what are the chances we put Anton Babchuck back in next season?

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slightly OT, but what are the chances we put Anton Babchuck back in next season?

Oh boy, that one needs a whole different message board.  ohmy.gif  Lets not go there again. There's probably a good reason we havent heard anything abut him in all the media reports included in this thread.

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I feel like a 2 year deal with a NTC some where in the neighborhood of 3 mil with some incentives could work.  Then if he's still a solid 20 goal guy after that, we start with the 1 year deals.  Depends on if he really wants to be here, or if its all about the cash.

The CBA only permits performance bonuses on contracts for players who are 35 or older if they are signing a one year contract.  Anything over one year cannot have performance incentives.

TSA - I believe the bonus would count against the cap in the year it is earned.

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


Appstatecanesfan']I feel like a 2 year deal with a NTC some where in the neighborhood of 3 mil with some incentives could work.  Then if he's still a solid 20 goal guy after that, we start with the 1 year deals.  Depends on if he really wants to be here, or if its all about the cash.

The CBA only permits performance bonuses on contracts for players who are 35 or older if they are signing a one year contract.  Anything over one year cannot have performance incentives.

TSA - I believe the bonus would count against the cap in the year it is earned.

I bet someone here has a copy of the CBA handy and would be able to enlighten us.  We have a couple of weeks to kill and the rumor sites are just starting to heat up.  Im still not buying that Whitney demanded a 3 year contract from LA like we've read on these sites.

  

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NHL CBA

Here ya go.  Starts on page 187.

Unless you have the Cliffs Notes, I'll wait for someone else to summarize. laugh.gif

Accordng to hockeyleaks, Boston or Buffalo will be Whitney's destination but they're using hockeybuzz as their source....eeks.  He's what Buffalo needs but please...no.

http://www.hockeyleaks.com/index.php?page=rumors

Boston has had a recent ressurgence and since making the playoffs isn't an option for the Bruins, I think they'd be willing to make a big move to get a player like Whitney.  They have good young players and the ever important 1st round picks.

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


Faceoff-ch1']

Here ya go.  Starts on page 187.

Unless you have the Cliffs Notes, I'll wait for someone else to summarize. laugh.gif

That section actually isn't that bad of a read.  It starts off talking about deferred payments on bonuses and it's gets a little weird on how it is calculated but it does say bonus that defer payment until the follow year are still calculated against the cap in the year it is earned, not the year it is paid.  You have to assume that a bonus payment that is not explicitly stated to be deferred will be paid in the year earned also. 

It is very clear and concise on who can get a performance bonus. Only on the players first contract and for those of age 35 and older and 1 year contracts only. 

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CAROLINA HURRICANES
UFA in 2010:
Ray Whitney, Scott Walker, Stephane Yelle, Joe Corvo, Aaron Ward, Manny Legace.

RFA in 2010: Jiri Tlusty, Alexandre Picard, Brett Carson.

Top Prospects:
Zach Boychuk, RW, Albany (AHL)
Jamie McBain, D, Albany (AHL)
Drayson Bowman, LW, Albany (AHL)
Zac Dalpe, C, Ohio State (CCHA)
Mike Murphy, G, Albany (AHL)

Others of Interest: Jerome Samson, Erik Cole, Sergei Samsonov.

No-Trade Clauses: Ray Whitney, Scott Walker.

The Plan: The Hurricanes are paying the price for loyalty, with veterans like Rod Brind'Amour, Erik Cole and Sergei Samsonov all inked for another year beyond this miserable season, meaning that attempts to purge the roster won't likely get fully undertaken until the summer. In the meantime, however, the 'Canes have a number of young prospects on the way that can use the latter portion of the season to audition for full-time work next season and Carolina should be able to get a decent return for a veteran rental like Ray Whitney, whose power play ability will make him a nice fit for many contenders, and a healthy Joe Corvo could also be appealing to a contender needing a big shot from the point.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=310278

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Let me throw this one out there, just to make me feel better.

I hope J.R. finds a home for Walker, and a home with a team that has a serious chance at seeing the SCF's.  I don't care what we get in return.  I'd love to see Walker get a chance to hoist the Cup.  He's been a great team player and gives 100% every night (I'd say the much overused 110% but there's no such thing).  He's a veteran player who could add a lot to a contender (Chicago are you listening).  No offense to the other Canes that are departing but whatever team gets Walker will become my team in the playoffs.  I want to see that man hoist Lord Stanley's Cup.

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