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remkin

Who's the Core?

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I think you gotta include Ruutu in that core...he is young, no need to replace him.  He is an easy top 6, and has a great attitude. 

I'd put Ruutu in and take Sutter out.

Sutter remains in the dont trade list, but I dont consider him a core player yet. He just came up a week ago. 

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Good post Remkin.  I have to agree that Ruutu could be considered as a core player but outside your core group I see everyone as a potential trade.  My keepers would be Ruutu and Jokinen.  We are deep at center which might make Cullen expendable, and he has value now so I see him going at some point this year. 

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Good list Remkin, pretty much what I think.

I would also include Ruutu in the core though. He's just that type of player every team needs. And because I've been impressed with the way he has taken on a leadership role with this team the last 2 weeks. He's really stepping up in facing the media and he is playing like he's got this team on his back.

And I don't think JR would pull the trigger on trading Jokinen cause let's be honest, he's the only one that gives us a chance at winning a shootout laugh.gif

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I'm with you on the core players.  Ruutu is right there too because of his ability to score and hit.  Jussi would be close too based on his performance, shootout ability, and reasonable contract. Jussi's contract will probably make him a valuable asset at the trade deadline (I really don't want to see the Juice Man leave). I also agree that Cullen probably is the odd man out this season if the team doesn't have a miracle turnaround.

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I agree with your core list and I would include Rutuu and Jokinen as well. Also I think for the money and the leadership qualities, Cole wouldn't be worth trading for what we would probably get in return. Everyone else is expendable...Corvo will be hard to replace but being an good player with and an UFA, you have to think we'll try and get a 3rd or 2nd rounder for him. Whitney could get us a 2nd, and all the others would bring in lower round picks. Not sure what to do about Samsonov at this point. I think you make a valid point as well. Perhaps this can be construed as a positive for the organization; we all knew they were rebuilding next year, at least we're getting some returns and a potentially high draft pick in a good year to get one. Besides I have been impressed with Sutter and Boychuk -- we're nowhere near as hopeless as the Cleveland Browns.

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Great responses. I put Sutter on there since very few teams give up on their top prospects since they drafted them and they have a few years of pretty cheap contracts, so I just can't see him being traded. I would have put Boychuk there also, but he is currently in the AHL. I'm a very confident that kid will have a Whitney-like career. I like Ruutu also, and he probably should be in the core. I had him as my first keeper outside the core, which would mean only trade him for a top scorer. After that it gets sticky. Jokinen's playoff run, his shootout skills, his smarts, and his producing about as well as anyone but Whitney would probably earn him staying rights, but I do think he is more of a third liner. I think we need speed on our top two lines. Cullen still brings some speed. I really don't know where Chad LaRose went. I loved this guy his entire career, but his is invisible now.

Whatever we do we need speed and legit scoring on our top two lines. Thus we can figure out who has the contract and the complimentary skills to form the third line and everyone else needs to show the legitimate scoring chops to produce at first or second line level or be moved.

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If we are re-building, I would think the core would be -

Staal

Cam

All 3 Finns

Sutter

Boychuk & the rest of the AHL kids

Taylor Hall (counting chickens before hatched happy.gif)

Likely traded due to UFA status next year and marketable value -

Whitney

Cullen

Corvo (maybe)

Un-trade-able unless we find a sucker to trade with,or are looking for extra bags of pucks -

Everyone else on the team

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IMO, no one should feel safe, I know,I know we have to have a core, but "SAFETY" creates being complacint. When you feel you don't have to fight or earn your spot your effort goes down. Just look at how much better guys play in a "contract year" and how they play after the contract is signed. It's just human nature to let up once you are so called "SAFE".  Looks to me we have alot of guys without  the same intensity  they had last year!

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Agree with most on the core players and I also think Jussi deserves to be in that core because he offers so many different things to the team.  I dont think we've seen the best he has to offer yet but being put in a top 6 role consistently should help bring his game to another level.

Good discussion.  Its nice to read some constructive threads about the future rather than only having the negative stuff.  There's been plenty of bad to go around all season and it would be easy to only see the big hole the team is in, but I can look back at the Flyers in 07 and see how quickly they were able to rebound from a 56 point season.

It'll be interesting to see how things shake out starting right after Christmas. Very few teams across the league are running away with anything so there should be plenty of teams that'll be looking for some deals soon.  To me it starts by identifying the core moving forward, letting the core players get 100% healthy and making sure we get back the most value for all the other parts.

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While I hate to suffer through a year of futility needed to get a top pick, it is clear that there are at least 2 future superstars in that draft and I am hard pressed to think of many teams who have not built their superstars through the draft. When is the last time that a team traded a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Nash,  etc. They draft them and then hold on for dear life. Then they usually get many years of competitive hockey or better.

If we can add a guy like that to go with Staal and Ward, then add our core, lose the salary of the none core guys and pick up one more talent, and a few complimentary guys, then bring up Boychuk and maybe by next year Bowman. We could have a very short turnaround.

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Keep Staal, Ward, Pitkanen, Gleason, Sutter, Jokinen, Rutuu, and maybe Cole (I really think that our team is going to be really fast next year and that Cole would benefit from that.  Call up Boychuck, Bowman, McBain, Rodney, Carson/Borer.  Trade Cullen/Whitney this year and resign them for next year as they provide points and veteran leadership.  Also with the money we have coming off the books we should be able to dip into the high end of FA.

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OK, thought I'd bring this back. Not because it was hugely popular, but maybe a little ahead of it's time.

My latest version:

Core:

Staal, C.Ward, Ruutu, Pitkanen, Sutter, Gleason.

Want back:

Cullen, Jokinen, Kostopolus, Babchuk (oh yes, I'm serious, at least trade him)

Say Goodbye:

Brind'Amour, LaRose (love him, maybe a strong run at the end saves him, but is now too expensive for his production, love him on the 4th line), Yelle, Sammy (pains me but yes), A.Ward (let him go now), Wallin (nice service over the years), Cole (stongly overrated since the injury, no production through two playoffs and two seasons), Whitney (one of two scores left, but end of contract, getting long in the tooth, can bring value), Leighton (just never really got to prove himself, but never took advantage of the few chances he got).

On the fence:

Corvo (one great play, one bad play) depends on what we could get

Alberts (slow, turnover prone, but big, hits hard, plays hard and not terrible, could be nice 6th Dman)

So I guess I would build around:

Staal, C.Ward, Ruutu, Pitkanen, Sutter, Gleason

Cullen, Jokinen, Kosto (Babchuk)

Alberts, Corvo

That leaves room for about 6-7 new players:

Boychuk definitely. Bowman maybe. An Albany defenseman. Babchuk*. Seguin. Free agent first line Winger. One different role player.

*OK or whoever you trade him for.

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I agree, except on Wallin. I believe that he should be one of the people who are in the "try to keep section" (for a discount)

Hes only 35 come january, and he is a decent third man d-pairing. He is 6'3 and 220 pounds, and remember, size was a major issue last year. Just because he does not score 16 goals or has a slapshot that will shame any baseball pitcher or hits hard enough for Jason Bourne to remember who he is does not mean he is a waste of a jersey or a bad d-man. He and alberts would make a fine third d-pair, albeat one with no offense. Just my thoughts

P.S. This was not influenced by that article on Wallin. I was thinking about this before that was posted.

P.S.S There is a fine article on JR over at Canes Country. I suggest it to everyone for some fine analysis on what JR has done for us

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I agree, except on Wallin. I believe that he should be one of the people who are in the "try to keep section" (for a discount)

Hes only 35 come january, and he is a decent third man d-pairing. He is 6'3 and 220 pounds, and remember, size was a major issue last year. Just because he does not score 16 goals or has a slapshot that will shame any baseball pitcher or hits hard enough for Jason Bourne to remember who he is does not mean he is a waste of a jersey or a bad d-man. He and alberts would make a fine third d-pair, albeat one with no offense. Just my thoughts

P.S. This was not influenced by that article on Wallin. I was thinking about this before that was posted.

P.S.S There is a fine article on JR over at Canes Country. I suggest it to everyone for some fine analysis on what JR has done for us

I have been mostly proud of Wallin's play so far this year.  He is about right for a 3rd pairing dman.  It was a nice article, and I've met him.  He is a genuinely decent fun-loving person. 

  

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I think the "core" is Staal, C.Ward, the three Finns, Gleason , and Sutter----these are our young (under30) core.

The next level of "core" would be Cullen, Cole and Corvo---young enough to be great veterans on a young team.

(I don't see how Cullen is the odd man out-----Staal, Sutter and Cullen give us three strong centers. Jussi can play wing

and our older centers have limitations)

Gives a lot of room to bring up some guys. (Or keep any others that Jr deems necessary)

Whitney should be traded at the deadline, to a contender, to give him a chance at a cup run-----but should be later

offered a yearly contract, like Wesley was, for as long as he can go, if he wants it.

 Hire Brindy into the organization somewhere.

But I am not the GM !  laugh.gif

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Don't know if anybody mentioned but we definitely should NOT trade our young prospects (talking about Boychuck, Bowman, Murphy, Mcrae, another D-man who I can't remember now). We are going to need these guys, sooner rather than later. Especially Boychuck and Bowman. Boychuck everybody knows about, but Bowman is a sniper with an above-average NHL shot, not AHL but NHL. We need scorers right? Well let's not trade away our own.

Anyways nice discussion Remy!

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Don't know if anybody mentioned but we definitely should NOT trade our young prospects (talking about Boychuck, Bowman, Murphy, Mcrae, another D-man who I can't remember now). We are going to need these guys, sooner rather than later. Especially Boychuck and Bowman. Boychuck everybody knows about, but Bowman is a sniper with an above-average NHL shot, not AHL but NHL. We need scorers right? Well let's not trade away our own.

Anyways nice discussion Remy!

do you mean NHL level now, while hes still developing, or NHL level projected? Either way, you ar right, we must not destroy our cupboard again

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I have a question about Boychuk. Maybe our River Rat followers could answer. Given his offensive production in Albany and the way he looked during his game with the Canes, I have little doubt that he will score at the NHL level.

However, his plus/minus is awful, at -9 the worst on the team despite his being 2nd in points. This at least suggests that his defensive game needs work. Is this true? Just wondering, because I sense that he will be Whitney-like on offense.

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[quote name='ebhughes wrote:


fallen_apostle']

Don't know if anybody mentioned but we definitely should NOT trade our young prospects (talking about Boychuck, Bowman, Murphy, Mcrae, another D-man who I can't remember now). We are going to need these guys, sooner rather than later. Especially Boychuck and Bowman. Boychuck everybody knows about, but Bowman is a sniper with an above-average NHL shot, not AHL but NHL. We need scorers right? Well let's not trade away our own.

Anyways nice discussion Remy!

do you mean NHL level now, while hes still developing, or NHL level projected? Either way, you ar right, we must not destroy our cupboard again

Oh I mean now...the guy has a beautiful release. Of course the rest of his game needs work, but he can definitely shoot and score. We need that, now and for the future. 

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Keep 'em: C. Ward, Gleason, Pitkanen, Alberts, Staal, Ruutu, Sutter, Larose, Kostopoulos, Cullen, Jokinen. Build right up the middle from the back forward, with capable centers.

Dump 'em: Everyone else, including Whitney, Cole, Corvo and Samsinov - who have value (and age).

Acquire: Wingers that are younger, faster and can score. Anyone outside of that profile goes.

I'm not ready to give up on Larose, but he is only a 3rd liner at best.

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If I'm rebuilding this is my core. Not that I wouldn't want to keep others but if your rebuilding your options are open

                     Staal    Cole

                     Sutter   Rutuu

                                  Jokinen

Kostopoulos

        Gleason       Corvo

        Pitkanen    

                  Cam Ward

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Cullen's name gets thrown around a lot in trade rumors. Understandable, but I am putting him in my core. Here' why.

I think most of us are dying to see what a top winger or two could do to Staal's game. That means that my hope for a single high value free agent will have to be a winger, since it is hard to count on a first year rookie to be ready for first line duties. Cullen is a solid second line center and I would argue an elite third line center. He has speed and skills. Constantly plays hard, has the best plus minus of all top 9 forwards, and is on a near 20 goal pace.

Further, if we add Taylor Hall he is a winger. Tlusty, Boychuk, Bowman. All wingers.

So the only situation I would trade Cullen is if we pick Seguin, who is a center. But we won't know that for quite a while, so we must hold Cullen until draft day.

Staal-Cullen-Sutter is pretty decent up the middle. Hang some seriously talented wingers on there and we will be pretty good.

So, in the purest sense of a core that is untouchable and since picking Seguin would make Cullen expendable, he may not be there, but his is core until draft day.

So at forward my pre-draft core is:

Staal, Ruutu, Sutter, Cullen Then of course the Rats on deck.

I would keep Jokinen if at all possible, depending on trade value. Unlikely to be able to unload LaRose. Kostopolous is a definite keeper also, but as a 4th liner. As a 4th liner could actually put him in the core.

Everyone else: trade, release or retire.

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