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djharley

What do you think is the Teams main problem/problems are so far this year?

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The team's biggest problem is the Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows Brigade. Until fans insist on a better product and stop buying tickets until they get it, nothing will change. Follow and support the team on radio and TV for free? Sure - because that's about all their play is worth right now - zip. Until they begin playing like they are being paid to, we need to stop feeding the meter. 

I tried posting a small dose of reality over on the "All Positive Thread" and of course it was instantly removed. Tripe like what's being spewed over there is just counterproductive at this point. If you don't believe me, try reading it. Just make sure you're got a plastic bag handy.

 

If us fans are the biggest problem this team has right now, why are they losing?  They're the ones on the ice playing the game, not us.  I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think.  I guess its your job to make sure that everyone feels just as miserable as you do, even if they've already gone through all the emotions and are now just numb to this team losing.   And nice rally for the STH's that already invested their money this season, BEFORE the total collapse, asking them to just walk away from the hundreds or thousands of dollars invested.  How many ST's do you have?  Are you willing to just let them go to waste to prove your point to management or would you go to the games you already paid in advance for with some glimmer of hope you'll see at the very least, an entertaining product?

You can insult people around here all you want and tell us how off base we are but these are the hardcore fans that buy the tickets, watch the games and hope every game that something will turn around this season.  They come here in good AND bad times to talk about this team, figure out what's going right and problem solve what's going wrong.   I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins?   Im always curious why some only show up to complain after the bad but never have anything to add after something good happens.

No one is living in fantasy land thinking there will be some miracle run taking us to the playoffs this season but many are hoping this season ends up being the building block for the future that was needed last year but overlooked because of a late season run.  Your post was removed from that thread because it had nothing to do with the point of that thread and everything to do with insulting the members on this board that don't feel the same as you.

  

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Ohhhhhh yeah ts1....that's what my "2 warnings" are for.....my lack of lollipops and rainbows....12 GAMES AGO.

I assure you I spend PLENTY of money on this product....maybe time to stop.

Hmm, your warning record says the warnings are for name calling, bad language and derailing threads.  Nope, I see nothing that says "lack of lollypops".

BTW, this board goes as the season goes.  If the team is doing well, life is good and people treat each other with respect.  If the team sucks, the down slide usually starts with attacks against the way the board is run and who runs it (already covered in the last GDT), followed by infighting and a complete lack of respect for fellow board members by who don't happen to share the same opinions.  Its all starts with someone posting that they're not allowed express their opinions, followed by a no negative posts are allowed here and finishing with the predictable "sunshine and lollypops brigade" insult to the members hanging in there.

Then what will happen is something good will happen and the fans hanging in there will speak up and the poeple that came to insult the others will disapear once again until the next melt down by the team to say "I told you so".   Predictable.

    

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[quote name='topshelfavry wrote:


WStout']Ohhhhhh yeah ts1....that's what my "2 warnings" are for.....my lack of lollipops and rainbows....12 GAMES AGO.

I assure you I spend PLENTY of money on this product....maybe time to stop.

Hmm, your warning record says the warnings are for name calling, bad language and derailing threads.  Nope, I see nothing that says "lack of lollypops".

BTW, this board goes as the season goes.  If the team is doing well, life is good and people treat each other with respect.  If the team sucks, the down slide usually starts with attacks against the way the board is run and who runs it (already covered in the last GDT), followed by infighting and a complete lack of respect for fellow board members by who don't happen to share the same opinions.  Its all starts with someone posting that they're not allowed express their opinions, followed by a no negative posts are allowed here and finishing with the predictable "sunshine and lollypops brigade" insult to the members hanging in there.

Then what will happen is something good will happen and the fans hanging in there will speak up and the poeple that came to insult the others will disapear once again until the next melt down by the team to say "I told you so".   Predictable.

    No disrespect meant, but some fans are just more passionate than others and take things like this season a lot harder.  I don't think they understand that just because some of the fans can remain positive no matter what, doesn't mean those fans are happy about what's going on.  Two different perspectives, each handled different ways.

Change is coming, no doubt!

  

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[quote name='Canesmash wrote:


topshelfavry wrote:


WStout']Ohhhhhh yeah ts1....that's what my "2 warnings" are for.....my lack of lollipops and rainbows....12 GAMES AGO.

I assure you I spend PLENTY of money on this product....maybe time to stop.

Hmm, your warning record says the warnings are for name calling, bad language and derailing threads.  Nope, I see nothing that says "lack of lollypops".

BTW, this board goes as the season goes.  If the team is doing well, life is good and people treat each other with respect.  If the team sucks, the down slide usually starts with attacks against the way the board is run and who runs it (already covered in the last GDT), followed by infighting and a complete lack of respect for fellow board members by who don't happen to share the same opinions.  Its all starts with someone posting that they're not allowed express their opinions, followed by a no negative posts are allowed here and finishing with the predictable "sunshine and lollypops brigade" insult to the members hanging in there.

Then what will happen is something good will happen and the fans hanging in there will speak up and the poeple that came to insult the others will disapear once again until the next melt down by the team to say "I told you so".   Predictable.

    
No disrespect meant, but some fans are just more passionate than others and take things like this season a lot harder.  I don't think they understand that just because some of the fans can remain positive no matter what, doesn't mean those fans are happy about what's going on.  Two different perspectives, each handled different ways.

Change is coming, no doubt!

  No disrespect taken, it was exactly the point I was trying to make (although you said way more eloquently).  No fan of this team can be happy or satisfied with how this season is going but everyone will handle it very differently.  No one has the right to insult, call out or expect anyone else to deal with their disappointment in any way other than how they choose to deal with it.  For some that will be anger and lashing out, for others it will be staying positive and holding out for some hope but neither should ridicule the other and it won't be allowed here.

  

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and I'm sure that "name calling" and "bad language" was towards the management of this team - were they not?

Sorry - and I will get over it too.

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First, I refuse to become a card carrying member of Angry Anonymous based upon what's gone down this year.  I'm a STH, and at this time I have no illusions that this team is going anywhere in the short term.  But I'm not part of the problem because I just enjoy going to the game with my better half, visiting with friends I've met in that same parking lot over the years, and watching my favorite sport.  If that makes me a sunshine lollipop then whatever.  Throwing my tickets in the waste basket to make a statement to management is also not part of the solution. 

I have faith and patience that this organization will turn things around.  It wasn't too long ago that this very board was full of talk about how "classy" this organization is.  And it not only came from our fans, but from around the league.  Class can also be measured by how we handle adversity.  So, I choose that direction.  I will continue to support the team, and I will continue to visit and post on these boards as we somehow find our way out of this mess.

That is all.

 

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As a side note:  You know things have to be pretty bad around this franchise right now if 4 hours before a Canes/Sabre game we haven't had even 1 slug troll come here tell us we're rednecks, we know nothing about hockey and we can't sell our building out.  Thats pretty bad when I'd welcome a slug troll over the infighting. wink.gif

But we are getting lots of lurking visitors.....popcorn anyone?

Thats it!  We need more trolls.  Sadly, even the trolls are leaving us alone to wallow in our misery sad.gif

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As a side note:  You know things have to be pretty bad around this franchise right now if 4 hours before a Canes/Sabre game we haven't had even 1 slug troll come here tell us we're rednecks, we know nothing about hockey and we can't sell our building out.  Thats pretty bad when I'd welcome a slug troll over the infighting. wink.gif

But we are getting lots of lurking visitors.....popcorn anyone?

Thats it!  We need more trolls.  Sadly, even the trolls are leaving us alone to wallow in our misery sad.gif

Yes, we are so bad that it's not even good sport to mess with us. Kind of like laughing at a car accident. Though you do have a point, one would expect that from a Slug fan. That is bad.

  

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Wow, I turn my attention to Carolina vs State for a few hours and what? To paraphrase an old football coach: "What the heck is going on out there?"

Calm down everybody, and behave! Getting back to the thread, What's wrong? Plenty! Just look at how you're all going at it. There is plenty to say, much of which is critical and positive - at the same time! I'm cool with JR working through this, rather than reacting to fan pressure and tantrums.

I'm with Coastal, but will add we can still be both critical and constructive at the same time, with a focus on re-building. Does the current state hurt? Yes! Is it worth the wait given past results? I think it will be.

Meanwhile, I'd like to see some change (expressed in various posts), but remain committed to this franchise as a STH.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


topshelfavry']As a side note:  You know things have to be pretty bad around this franchise right now if 4 hours before a Canes/Sabre game we haven't had even 1 slug troll come here tell us we're rednecks, we know nothing about hockey and we can't sell our building out.  Thats pretty bad when I'd welcome a slug troll over the infighting.
wink.gif

But we are getting lots of lurking visitors.....popcorn anyone?

Thats it!  We need more trolls.  Sadly, even the trolls are leaving us alone to wallow in our misery
sad.gif

Yes, we are so bad that it's not even good sport to mess with us. Kind of like laughing at a car accident. Though you do have a point, one would expect that from a Slug fan. That is bad.

  Well, the day is young.  Another 12-pack or three and we might see some action from the slug faithful.

  

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


remkin wrote:


topshelfavry']As a side note:  You know things have to be pretty bad around this franchise right now if 4 hours before a Canes/Sabre game we haven't had even 1 slug troll come here tell us we're rednecks, we know nothing about hockey and we can't sell our building out.  Thats pretty bad when I'd welcome a slug troll over the infighting.
wink.gif

But we are getting lots of lurking visitors.....popcorn anyone?

Thats it!  We need more trolls.  Sadly, even the trolls are leaving us alone to wallow in our misery
sad.gif

Yes, we are so bad that it's not even good sport to mess with us. Kind of like laughing at a car accident. Though you do have a point, one would expect that from a Slug fan. That is bad.

  
Well, the day is young.  Another 12-pack or three and we might see some action from the slug faithful.

  I think our first troll just showed up, you!!!!!   Now I see the problem with your avatar, lol.  I'll file a report but I'm afraid it won't get looked at till Monday with the long holiday week.  I'll give it a try, you never know who's checking in.

Edit:  I was able to shut off your avatar but thats about all I can do right now.

Hmmmm, should we have some fun with our first Slug troll?  laugh.gif

  

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I'll always keep supporting our team.  Heck I still pull for the redskins since 68.  I thought boards were just for interacting with not making enemies of those with the same interest.    CANES WILL BE BACK.   I just enjoy hockey, moreso when our boys are in the mix.

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[quote name='topshelfavry wrote:


top-shelf-1']The team's biggest problem is the Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows Brigade. Until fans insist on a better product and stop buying tickets until they get it, nothing will change. Follow and support the team on radio and TV for free? Sure - because that's about all their play is worth right now - zip. Until they begin playing like they are being paid to, we need to stop feeding the meter. 

I tried posting a small dose of reality over on the "All Positive Thread" and of course it was instantly removed. Tripe like what's being spewed over there is just counterproductive at this point. If you don't believe me, try reading it. Just make sure you're got a plastic bag handy.

 

If us fans are the biggest problem this team has right now, why are they losing?  They're the ones on the ice playing the game, not us.  I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think.  I guess its your job to make sure that everyone feels just as miserable as you do, even if they've already gone through all the emotions and are now just numb to this team losing.   And nice rally for the STH's that already invested their money this season, BEFORE the total collapse, asking them to just walk away from the hundreds or thousands of dollars invested.  How many ST's do you have?  Are you willing to just let them go to waste to prove your point to management or would you go to the games you already paid in advance for with some glimmer of hope you'll see at the very least, an entertaining product?

You can insult people around here all you want and tell us how off base we are but these are the hardcore fans that buy the tickets, watch the games and hope every game that something will turn around this season.  They come here in good AND bad times to talk about this team, figure out what's going right and problem solve what's going wrong.   I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins?   Im always curious why some only show up to complain after the bad but never have anything to add after something good happens.

No one is living in fantasy land thinking there will be some miracle run taking us to the playoffs this season but many are hoping this season ends up being the building block for the future that was needed last year but overlooked because of a late season run.  Your post was removed from that thread because it had nothing to do with the point of that thread and everything to do with insulting the members on this board that don't feel the same as you.

  > I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think. 

Than even I think, TSA? Really? I've been saying that exact thing - that our problems are bigger than a coaching change, than a "slump" - for a long time now. Since we won the Cup, in fact. And I personally resent being grouped with the trollers that you consistently try to marginalize and ultimately discourage from posting, and further resent that anybody else who takes the time to sign up and post regularly over several seasons is done that way, too. I spend lots of money supporting this team, and the notion that refusing to do so when they perform poorly makes me any less a fan than those who choose to keep shelling out is neither appreciated nor based in fact. I bleed Carolina RED, I hurt to see what's happened to this team, and, like any company I invest in, I hate it when management makes bad decisions.   

> I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins? 

Canada, or California, or Wisconsin, I'm guessing. Last year I took a job which requires a lot more travel than the one I had during my first couple years of membership, and if you look at my posting history (Mr. "Don't Comment on Others' Number of Posts"...) you'll notice an overall decline in my activity here due to that fact. But regardless, WHO CARES?? Either post frequency IS fair game or it's NOT, TSA - and you've said it's not. Make up your mind.

In closing, I'll just say that yes, I realize I've broken the Cardinal Rule of opinion sharing: Don't get in a written argument with somebody who buys ink  by the carload. (Or in this case, the people who control the means of that opinion sharing.) So I'm confident that the next step is being "warned" and thus further marginalized.

But sometimes you have to stand up, so I am, and I stand by what I said: Threads like the All Positive Thread are just counterproductive when things get this bad. It's time for we, the customers, to demand a better product and to vote with our wallets and pocketbooks to help hasten the decisions that might bring that better product about. Can you imagine what would happen in this state, if, just by way of contrast UNC Basketball had a three-year run of (sorry, but it fits) crap like this? Do you really believe, TSA, under such circumstances, that calling people posting such disgustingly positive stuff "happy shiny people" or asking them to wake up rises to the level of "insulting"? I doubt it, but even if a part of you does, I'll climb farther out on my limb here and venture that the bigger issue is being just a little ticked that somebody called out that thread for what it is: A distraction to deep, systemic problems within the Canes' organization. 

    

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[quote name='top-shelf-1 wrote:


topshelfavry wrote:


top-shelf-1']The team's biggest problem is the Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows Brigade. Until fans insist on a better product and stop buying tickets until they get it, nothing will change. Follow and support the team on radio and TV for free? Sure - because that's about all their play is worth right now - zip. Until they begin playing like they are being paid to, we need to stop feeding the meter. 

I tried posting a small dose of reality over on the "All Positive Thread" and of course it was instantly removed. Tripe like what's being spewed over there is just counterproductive at this point. If you don't believe me, try reading it. Just make sure you're got a plastic bag handy.

 

If us fans are the biggest problem this team has right now, why are they losing?  They're the ones on the ice playing the game, not us.  I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think.  I guess its your job to make sure that everyone feels just as miserable as you do, even if they've already gone through all the emotions and are now just numb to this team losing.   And nice rally for the STH's that already invested their money this season, BEFORE the total collapse, asking them to just walk away from the hundreds or thousands of dollars invested.  How many ST's do you have?  Are you willing to just let them go to waste to prove your point to management or would you go to the games you already paid in advance for with some glimmer of hope you'll see at the very least, an entertaining product?

You can insult people around here all you want and tell us how off base we are but these are the hardcore fans that buy the tickets, watch the games and hope every game that something will turn around this season.  They come here in good AND bad times to talk about this team, figure out what's going right and problem solve what's going wrong.   I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins?   Im always curious why some only show up to complain after the bad but never have anything to add after something good happens.

No one is living in fantasy land thinking there will be some miracle run taking us to the playoffs this season but many are hoping this season ends up being the building block for the future that was needed last year but overlooked because of a late season run.  Your post was removed from that thread because it had nothing to do with the point of that thread and everything to do with insulting the members on this board that don't feel the same as you.

  
> I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think. 

Than even I think, TSA? Really? I've been saying that exact thing - that our problems are bigger than a coaching change, than a "slump" - for a long time now. Since we won the Cup, in fact. And I personally resent being grouped with the trollers that you consistently try to marginalize and ultimately discourage from posting, and further resent that anybody else who takes the time to sign up and post regularly over several seasons is done that way, too. I spend lots of money supporting this team, and the notion that refusing to do so when they perform poorly makes me any less a fan than those who choose to keep shelling out is neither appreciated nor based in fact. I bleed Carolina RED, I hurt to see what's happened to this team, and, like any company I invest in, I hate it when management makes bad decisions.   

> I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins? 

Canada, or California, or Wisconsin, I'm guessing. Last year I took a job which requires a lot more travel than the one I had during my first couple years of membership, and if you look at my posting history (Mr. "Don't Comment on Others' Number of Posts"...) you'll notice an overall decline in my activity here due to that fact. But regardless, WHO CARES?? Either post frequency IS fair game or it's NOT, TSA - and you've said it's not. Make up your mind.

In closing, I'll just say that yes, I realize I've broken the Cardinal Rule of opinion sharing: Don't get in a written argument with somebody who buys ink  by the carload. (Or in this case, the people who control the means of that opinion sharing.) So I'm confident that the next step is being "warned" and thus further marginalized.

But sometimes you have to stand up, so I am, and I stand by what I said: Threads like the All Positive Thread are just counterproductive when things get this bad. It's time for we, the customers, to demand a better product and to vote with our wallets and pocketbooks to help hasten the decisions that might bring that better product about. Can you imagine what would happen in this state, if, just by way of contrast UNC Basketball had a three-year run of (sorry, but it fits) crap like this? Do you really believe, TSA, under such circumstances, that calling people posting such disgustingly positive stuff "happy shiny people" or asking them to wake up rises to the level of "insulting"? I doubt it, but even if a part of you does, I'll climb farther out on my limb here and venture that the bigger issue is being just a little ticked that somebody called out that thread for what it is: A distraction to deep, systemic problems within the Canes' organization. 

    

Is it possible that both of us missed each other's points?  I obviously wasn't clear in my point so I'll try again to make better sense and maybe not come off so harsh that you would assume you've done something that I would think deserved a warning.  I responded not to your criticisms of the team/organization but only to your comment about the fans who chose to try and stay somewhat positive through all this as being "the team's biggest problem".  It doesn't bother me if you criticize the team, coaches, players, GM, front office, back office or anyone else responsible for this team but it does bother me when members are criticized or accused of living in the land of Oz because they choose to try and find some positives to hang on to.  It doesn't it mean they don't see all the negative stuff, they just choose not to focus on only that. 

You're obviously passionate about this team or you wouldn't be here arguing your points but I certainly didn't call you less of a fan or at least it wasn't my intention to.  My point was that we all buy tickets and invest our time in this team and none of us should be told what we should or should not do as fans to either support or make a statement of disapproval to our team.   Just as you wouldn't appreciate someone telling you that your choice to boycott the games could harm revenue for the future, others may not appreciate you saying that nothing will ever improve because they choose to go to the games they've already paid good money for.  If your point was that fans should express they're dissatisfaction to the organization than I agree with you but remember, my reply to you was based only on your comments directed at members participating in a thread you didn't agree with, not with your dissatisfaction of the team/organization.

As for the posting issue, my point was not about the frequency or even the amount of posts someone makes because you're right, thats means absolutely nothing and doesn't make them a better or smarter fan.   Most of us have jobs and other things in life that are way more important than this board but I always find it curious how the same people only show up to criticize but never show up when things are going well.  When and what someone chooses to post about is their prerogative but again, this whole thing is in response to your disapproval of people trying make positive comments, humerous or not.

The Cardinal Rule of opinion sharing imo is to not discredit someone else's opinion just to validate your own.  When opinions are shared without threatening each other's points of view, it usually leads to a good discussion.  I'm not sure why you would think the next step for you would be a warning, sharing opinions is the point of this board and doesn't break any stated rules. 

By all means stand up, climb out on any limb and demand a better product by doing whatever you feel you need to do to be heard but don't expect people to be receptive to your ideas when you start out by telling them that whatever they're doing is all wrong.  It may be wrong for you but for them, its what they want to do to get through the tough times.  And yes, I do think its a bit insulting to call out people for posting anything they write just because you don't agree with it.  I think your exact words were tripe being spewed that was counterproductive.  There were no false pretenses about that thread nor any deep dark secrets it was trying to cover up.  It was exactly as it came billed, a place to find something positive among all the negatives of this season.

If your point was to encourage the fans to demand a better product which I think I now understand it to be, why didn't you just start a thread asking people to post their ideas on how to get the point across to the team rather than to call fellow members out in an existing thread that had nothing to do with your point?  It would have probably made for a pretty good discussion, just saying.

I hope this clears the air a little and if you want to continue this conversation, I'd be happy to in PM and to attempt to get this thread back on topic, there are numerous problems plaguing this team right now and it would be nearly impossible to single out anything as the main problem.  IMO, its not just a player, a coach, a system, poor execution, poor chemistry, no scoring, no defense or even injuries...its the sum of all the listed parts that just won't mesh together to form a team thats keeping them from winning any games.  I've followed some pretty bad pro teams over the years but I've never seen anything quite like this before.

  

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[quote name=hockeybaby]Fans that are booing at the games..shame on you. Anyone can cheer in a game 7, but it takes class to walk out of the RBC with your mouth shut.

Complete Silence during and after a poor performance may be more effective...The players/coaches of our team and others who come to the building are always talking about how "loud" it is in our building...what would they think if they could hear a pin drop...

Besides who are you booing---the team,the coaches,the refs,the other team...Complete Silence would say it all...I think it would speak dirrectly to our players and the coaching staff as well as the management..."We have NOTHING to say" It would send a collective message to the "collective failure" of this team...We have some brilliant individual players on this team...the problem is they never ALL show up for a game...when the offense shows up the D breaks down...or when the D is on fire the offense can't get it done... You see a couple awesome plays during a game but nothing sustainable for 60 minutes... That in my opinion is what makes this so difficult to watch... the individual talent is there (which is why we look good on paper) but they can not (for whatever reason) play as a team... Not sure how you fix that---New coach who may be able to bring them together somehow??? Trade players,bring in new ones???I'm not sure how this would help and who do you trade/get rid of...the new players you brought in or do you trade all the players on the team from last season...or do you just ask for a show of hands in the locker room "who still wants to be a CANE" (sarcasm alert on the last commentwink.gif) I'm not sure what we will see in the coming days/weeks but I have a feeling the "face" of the Hurricanes is changing we knew it would...we knew at the end of this season with all the expiring contracts that the rebuilding/retooling would begin my guess is we may see it sooner than later... LETS GO CANES

  

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Are they shopping around for a new venue or what. The GM we know would have taken action 10 games ago. Forget all the excuses about the cap or who would we trade,Rutherford normally would have done "anything" by this time. Maybe he is stepping down and the team knows it and we don't and the team cannot gel until the "other shoe"drops. No one out there will convince me that something is not about to go down. That is totally uncharacteristic of the owners and management to let this slide this long. While we are all arguing about being positive and negative we are missing the meaning of Rutherford's comment "its all my fault". Folks, he threw in the towel, not us. The strategic plan will be unfurled soon until which time why beat up each other-you are all right! But you and I don't have critical management info that would aid in understanding the lack of action.

tired.gif

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No GM in the league except maybe St. Louis's would let the coach stick around this long............................

You need to get over it.  They can't pay for 3 head coaches (currently they are paying for two) as Lavi is still on the payroll.

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Fans that are booing at the games..shame on you. Anyone can cheer in a game 7, but it takes class to walk out of the RBC with your mouth shut.

That is a very condescending remark toward a bunch of people who do not deserve it. 

People pay a lot of money to attend a hockey game.  Have you checked the price of a lower level ticket?  Have you looked up the prices of season tickets?  Fans have a right to express their opinion.  As a matter of fact, this topic came up on the Aftermath last year when we went through the mess with Laviolette and Forslund stood up for the booing fans stating they have the right to boo and the players know it. 

This team and the management of this team has deserved every single boo they have heard.  Personally, I choose not to boo but I respect the right of every other person around me to do it if they choose.  It certainly does not make me more classy because I choose not to do it.

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As evidenced by the last two third period collapses I would say a big problem is playing "not to lose" as opposed to playing to win.  The team seems comfortable with playing 40 minutes of surprisingly good hockey and then watching the other team do whatever they want in the final 20 minutes.

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[quote name='topshelfavry wrote:


top-shelf-1 wrote:

topshelfavry']If us fans are the biggest problem this team has right now, why are they losing?  They're the ones on the ice playing the game, not us.  I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think.  I guess its your job to make sure that everyone feels just as miserable as you do, even if they've already gone through all the emotions and are now just numb to this team losing.   And nice rally for the STH's that already invested their money this season, BEFORE the total collapse, asking them to just walk away from the hundreds or thousands of dollars invested.  How many ST's do you have?  Are you willing to just let them go to waste to prove your point to management or would you go to the games you already paid in advance for with some glimmer of hope you'll see at the very least, an entertaining product?

You can insult people around here all you want and tell us how off base we are but these are the hardcore fans that buy the tickets, watch the games and hope every game that something will turn around this season.  They come here in good AND bad times to talk about this team, figure out what's going right and problem solve what's going wrong.   I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins?   Im always curious why some only show up to complain after the bad but never have anything to add after something good happens.

No one is living in fantasy land thinking there will be some miracle run taking us to the playoffs this season but many are hoping this season ends up being the building block for the future that was needed last year but overlooked because of a late season run.  Your post was removed from that thread because it had nothing to do with the point of that thread and everything to do with insulting the members on this board that don't feel the same as you.

  

> I highly doubt if a few semi-sarcastic posts on a message board meant to give people a chuckle when there's little to chuckle about is effecting their play.  If it is, I think we have bigger issues than even you think. 

Than even I think, TSA? Really? I've been saying that exact thing - that our problems are bigger than a coaching change, than a "slump" - for a long time now. Since we won the Cup, in fact. And I personally resent being grouped with the trollers that you consistently try to marginalize and ultimately discourage from posting, and further resent that anybody else who takes the time to sign up and post regularly over several seasons is done that way, too. I spend lots of money supporting this team, and the notion that refusing to do so when they perform poorly makes me any less a fan than those who choose to keep shelling out is neither appreciated nor based in fact. I bleed Carolina RED, I hurt to see what's happened to this team, and, like any company I invest in, I hate it when management makes bad decisions.   

> I realize there hasn't been too many good games but where were you after one of the wins? 

Canada, or California, or Wisconsin, I'm guessing. Last year I took a job which requires a lot more travel than the one I had during my first couple years of membership, and if you look at my posting history (Mr. "Don't Comment on Others' Number of Posts"...) you'll notice an overall decline in my activity here due to that fact. But regardless, WHO CARES?? Either post frequency IS fair game or it's NOT, TSA - and you've said it's not. Make up your mind.

In closing, I'll just say that yes, I realize I've broken the Cardinal Rule of opinion sharing: Don't get in a written argument with somebody who buys ink  by the carload. (Or in this case, the people who control the means of that opinion sharing.) So I'm confident that the next step is being "warned" and thus further marginalized.

But sometimes you have to stand up, so I am, and I stand by what I said: Threads like the All Positive Thread are just counterproductive when things get this bad. It's time for we, the customers, to demand a better product and to vote with our wallets and pocketbooks to help hasten the decisions that might bring that better product about. Can you imagine what would happen in this state, if, just by way of contrast UNC Basketball had a three-year run of (sorry, but it fits) crap like this? Do you really believe, TSA, under such circumstances, that calling people posting such disgustingly positive stuff "happy shiny people" or asking them to wake up rises to the level of "insulting"? I doubt it, but even if a part of you does, I'll climb farther out on my limb here and venture that the bigger issue is being just a little ticked that somebody called out that thread for what it is: A distraction to deep, systemic problems within the Canes' organization. 

    

Is it possible that both of us missed each other's points?  I obviously wasn't clear in my point so I'll try again to make better sense and maybe not come off so harsh that you would assume you've done something that I would think deserved a warning.  I responded not to your criticisms of the team/organization but only to your comment about the fans who chose to try and stay somewhat positive through all this as being "the team's biggest problem".  It doesn't bother me if you criticize the team, coaches, players, GM, front office, back office or anyone else responsible for this team but it does bother me when members are criticized or accused of living in the land of Oz because they choose to try and find some positives to hang on to.  It doesn't it mean they don't see all the negative stuff, they just choose not to focus on only that. 

You're obviously passionate about this team or you wouldn't be here arguing your points but I certainly didn't call you less of a fan or at least it wasn't my intention to.  My point was that we all buy tickets and invest our time in this team and none of us should be told what we should or should not do as fans to either support or make a statement of disapproval to our team.   Just as you wouldn't appreciate someone telling you that your choice to boycott the games could harm revenue for the future, others may not appreciate you saying that nothing will ever improve because they choose to go to the games they've already paid good money for.  If your point was that fans should express they're dissatisfaction to the organization than I agree with you but remember, my reply to you was based only on your comments directed at members participating in a thread you didn't agree with, not with your dissatisfaction of the team/organization.

As for the posting issue, my point was not about the frequency or even the amount of posts someone makes because you're right, thats means absolutely nothing and doesn't make them a better or smarter fan.   Most of us have jobs and other things in life that are way more important than this board but I always find it curious how the same people only show up to criticize but never show up when things are going well.  When and what someone chooses to post about is their prerogative but again, this whole thing is in response to your disapproval of people trying make positive comments, humerous or not.

The Cardinal Rule of opinion sharing imo is to not discredit someone else's opinion just to validate your own.  When opinions are shared without threatening each other's points of view, it usually leads to a good discussion.  I'm not sure why you would think the next step for you would be a warning, sharing opinions is the point of this board and doesn't break any stated rules. 

By all means stand up, climb out on any limb and demand a better product by doing whatever you feel you need to do to be heard but don't expect people to be receptive to your ideas when you start out by telling them that whatever they're doing is all wrong.  It may be wrong for you but for them, its what they want to do to get through the tough times.  And yes, I do think its a bit insulting to call out people for posting anything they write just because you don't agree with it.  I think your exact words were tripe being spewed that was counterproductive.  There were no false pretenses about that thread nor any deep dark secrets it was trying to cover up.  It was exactly as it came billed, a place to find something positive among all the negatives of this season.

If your point was to encourage the fans to demand a better product which I think I now understand it to be, why didn't you just start a thread asking people to post their ideas on how to get the point across to the team rather than to call fellow members out in an existing thread that had nothing to do with your point?  It would have probably made for a pretty good discussion, just saying.

I hope this clears the air a little and if you want to continue this conversation, I'd be happy to in PM and to attempt to get this thread back on topic, there are numerous problems plaguing this team right now and it would be nearly impossible to single out anything as the main problem.  IMO, its not just a player, a coach, a system, poor execution, poor chemistry, no scoring, no defense or even injuries...its the sum of all the listed parts that just won't mesh together to form a team thats keeping them from winning any games.  I've followed some pretty bad pro teams over the years but I've never seen anything quite like this before.

  Wow, a controversy that I'm not the cause of.  The end is nigh.  Can't the top shelfers all get along?

Seriously, the root of what's going on here is that things are so bad right now that nobody (us, coaches, players, J.R) knows how to fix this thing or even how it fell off the tracks so quickly.  Last year we were driving a Ferrari and magically our Ferrari turned into a Yugo during the summer.  We even tinkered with our Ferrari and tuned it up a little after the playoffs to fix it's minor problems.

What's wrong?  Pretty much everything other than goaltending?  Will I give up on the team?  Nope.  It's not a "lollipops and rainbows" outlook, but I've invested a lot of time and money into this team over the years and as a STH, I'm not walking away from my investment.  I still have a ball tailgating and seeing my Caniac friends.  I will be giving a a few more tickets away to my daughter than I may normally do and I probably won't be buying as many extra tickets for others to go with me (since they probably won't want to go anyway).  I can see myself leaving before the end of a game for the first time though.

Ticket sales will plummet.  Merchandise sales will drop.  No fans equals no $10 beers, $10 parking,  $4 pretzels, $4 sodas, etc.  This is the immediate problem that needs to be solved.  Give us something to get excited about because as Jim Mora once said, "Playoffs, don't talk about playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs?  I'm just trying to win a game". Find some way to bring a couple of our youngster up.  Boychuk and Samson looked pretty good in Norfolk last night.  That would excite me.  I don't know how to make the moves to make it happen, but I don't get paid to do that, J.R. does.

We also need to stop with the recycling.

Mo-need I say more

Cole-hasn't paid dividends this year

Cullen-a success story

A. Ward-need I say more   

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For my initial post, I would like to suggest the following: With the exception of the empty net goal that ended the Atlanta game, A. Ward has been on the ice for 7 of the 10 goals scored by Atlanta and Buffalo. This far exceeds and other player. It would seem that this performance would be enough to make him a healthy scratch and send him to the press box. I believe that his trade from the Rangers to the Bruins was a result of locker room arguments with Jagr et al who was quoted as telling him to be quiet and that his job was "...to get the puck to the forwards..." Taking him out of the lineup for Monday night might be the first step in a sequence of changes that take place over the next several months. When JR says he is partly to blame, I suspect he is talking about his contract negotiations with defensive players.

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