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Oh boy, this should start some interesting discussions.... from the N&O

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[quote name='topshelfavry wrote:


wxray1']When he fired Lavi, I wondered if he thought someone would hire Lavi quickly?  Doesn't the new team take on Lavi's contract if hired?

I think everyone thought an NHL experienced coach that had  Cup on his resume and came 1 vote short of the Jack Adams award would definitely be hired quickly.  For some reason, I don't think people are having those same thoughts about Maurice.

  I guess my point is now it causes 2 coaches "in the hole" if he were to fire Mo.

Then again, by giving Mo the long contract, he knew of this possibility -- unless he thought Lavi was sure to be hired over the summer.

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I gotta agree with JR...Maurice did an excellent job when he took over last year, and honestly I don't think his gameplan is to sit on leads and play awful in the 3rd period, its the players. Maurice doesn't choose which players to keep, trade ,etc.

only beef I have with maurice was people he chose in the shootout against Montreal, and when he gave Rod too much ice-time. Outside of that, the blame goes on the players and Rutherford. Rutherford is still obsessed with the 2006 era, he should let it go and stop recycling players from then.

Maurice isn't really an awful coach, I think he's just been behind the bench of some awful hockey clubs in Carolina and Toronto, firing maurice would just be a knee-jerk reaction for a short term solution. Kind of like trading back for Erik Cole.

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Maurice isn't really an awful coach, I think he's just been behind the bench of some awful hockey clubs in Carolina and Toronto, firing maurice would just be a knee-jerk reaction for a short term solution. Kind of like trading back for Erik Cole.

You must not have been around for Maurice, Volume 1.

When I first heard Maurice was rehired I was upset since it took so long for him to get fired the first time. Many of us waited two years for JR to finally pull the plug. I believe last year was a hybrid of Lavi's offense and Mo's defense (which was successful). Now, we're "full on" Maurice. Some might wonder why we're impatient to get rid of Maurice...but if you've been around for the duration...and you've witnessed six years of "dump and chase, stagnant offense, sit on a lead and play to lose" Maurice hockey...you can understand many fans' impatience.There is no "knee-jerk" reaction to firing Maurice because there's nothing on the other side. It may not make a momentous immediate change but we're not going to regret it in the long run.

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I think this is a bunch of BS as a fan if nothing comes out of this by week's end. The team needs to make decisions, communicate the intended outcome(s) and rally all resources behind the decision(s).

Last year the Canes trumpeted the coaching changes, and the role of Ron Francis. I'm sorry but in my mind the statute of limitations is over on making that personal decision. If he wants to coach, then I'd hope by week's end he is either head coach, or on his way to Albany working with the future. If not, get out from behind the bench and go upstairs or on the road scouting for the future and get Mo some help.

If JR's hands are tied by the cap, then the fixes are in the room. That includes evaluating and possibly changing defensive pairings, strategy on the PP/PK, player TOI decisions, letters on sweaters - EVERYTHING! The one thing I wouldn't touch is Barrasso's work with the goalies.

The only thing that is NOT acceptable from this franchise is doing nothing!!!

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I think this is a bunch of BS as a fan if nothing comes out of this by week's end. The team needs to make decisions, communicate the intended outcome(s) and rally all resources behind the decision(s).

Last year the Canes trumpeted the coaching changes, and the role of Ron Francis. I'm sorry but in my mind the statute of limitations is over on making that personal decision. If he wants to coach, then I'd hope by week's end he is either head coach, or on his way to Albany working with the future. If not, get out from behind the bench and go upstairs or on the road scouting for the future and get Mo some help.

If JR's hands are tied by the cap, then the fixes are in the room. That includes evaluating and possibly changing defensive pairings, strategy on the PP/PK, player TOI decisions, letters on sweaters - EVERYTHING! The one thing I wouldn't touch is Barrasso's work with the goalies.

The only thing that is NOT acceptable from this franchise is doing nothing!!

  

While we are figuring things out, we have the Caps twice, Vancouver, Ottawa, Jersey and the Pens in our next six games.  I just can't see Mo surviving that schedule regardless of JR's statement of standing firm behind his coach, given what's occurred to date.

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This situation kind of reminds me of a funny one back about this time last year.  I remember there was an article on the front page of the Website that had a quote from Rutherford saying something like "Big Changes were never close", after Laviolette started winning a few more games after a prolonged losing stretch.  However it had to have only been 2 maybe 3 weeks later that Laviolette was out the door.

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Well, J.R. has given Mo the dreaded "vote of confidence".  In most sports that is the kiss of death.

This team stumbled coming out of the chute and J.R. said "be patient".  Every week or so we've been spoon fed a load of "stuff" and told to be patient.  I see this as more of the same.  I've been looking at this break coming up this week as a point to make a change IF one is to be made.  It would be no surprise at all to me if Washington throttles us tomorrow night to send us into the break with another loss.  If Mo makes it past Wed., I expect to see him at the helm the whole season.

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What I wonder about this team is this. Are we really overall pretty good but prone to outlandish lapses, or does the other team just not bother showing up for long stretches then just take the game at will whenever they feel like it?

I had thought the former, but I am starting to seriously consider the latter.

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Proof isn't far away with 3 COMPLETELY different teams Mo is a classic losing coach in the 3rd period.

Does anyone remember how we all thought Kevin Weekes was a seive and couldn't win games in the 3rd period because he would always let a goal in in the final 5 minutes so we'd lose.

Or, do you remember our wins versus Toronto, yes we were losing in the 2nd quite a few times actually and won in the 3rd.

Or do you remember how this team which on paper should be in the 2nd round of the playoffs...cant win a game.

Yea the players suck... it's not Mo.

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Someone needs to be the "sacrifical lamb" for the defensive colapse in the past two games.  Who is in charge of the defense?

Rowe....but I'll second Legend:  a coach can't turn a vw into a porsche.  The team stinks, and there is no chemistry.  Just isn't working out, sometimes this happens in sports.  Things look great on paper, but they just don't work.  This is an old worn out team, and that is it.  Maybe there is some leadership issue of one sort or another, but that falls on all of our coaches and players...not one guy.  We were wrong last year to get rid of Lavi, he was struggling with the same stuff we are now....losing streaks, only this year we're chock full of injuries, and our mental toughness isn't there....so for Mo, its much worse.

Blame the players, and rebuild...beginning in January, the Canes 2010 coming to a chat room near you.

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Ack, shoulda added sarcasm alert to the end of my post. I dont think you agree at all, what I was saying is Mo's string of 3rd period lose's follow suit through 3 completely different rosters. When Mo coached Toronto we won at least 2 games with come from behind 3rd period wins. If we did it twice can you imagine how many other blow ups they must have had? 2003 we would constantly lose games in the 3rd. I remember how much I hated Kevin Weekes, then Irbe came back and we lost games in the third.

A coach can turn a VW into a porsche very easily, Mo's philosphy doesn't work at the NHL level and nor with this personelle of players. Mo made to many changes during a preseason JR decided was to long.

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Why Paul maurice has never been my favorite choice for coach,he is not the problem here it is our defense isit is absolutely the worse in the league. We need to look at making huge changes at the back end. Ward not the player he once was here, Alberts absolutely stinks and Pitkinen is hurt more than he plays maybe they need to keep him out longer and make sure he's 100% before allowing him to play. The other problem is other than Cam we do not have a stand on your head type goalie. Need to give Peters or Murphy a shot. But No matter what I have lived and died with this organization since it's inception in 1972 and this will tutrn around remember "You must crawl before you can walk" Go Canes!!!!!

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Why Paul maurice has never been my favorite choice for coach,he is not the problem here it is our defense isit is absolutely the worse in the league. We need to look at making huge changes at the back end. Ward not the player he once was here, Alberts absolutely stinks and Pitkinen is hurt more than he plays maybe they need to keep him out longer and make sure he's 100% before allowing him to play. The other problem is other than Cam we do not have a stand on your head type goalie. Need to give Peters or Murphy a shot. But No matter what I have lived and died with this organization since it's inception in 1972 and this will tutrn around remember "You must crawl before you can walk" Go Canes!!!!!

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When he fired Lavi, I wondered if he thought someone would hire Lavi quickly?  Doesn't the new team take on Lavi's contract if hired?

If Lavi was hired by another team then his contract with us would terminate (unless it was like the Mo deal last year where Toronto "loaned" him to us).  He would sign a new contract with a new team.

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[quote name='canesrun wrote:


goeb']

Maurice isn't really an awful coach, I think he's just been behind the bench of some awful hockey clubs in Carolina and Toronto, firing maurice would just be a knee-jerk reaction for a short term solution. Kind of like trading back for Erik Cole.

You must not have been around for Maurice, Volume 1.

When I first heard Maurice was rehired I was upset since it took so long for him to get fired the first time. Many of us waited two years for JR to finally pull the plug. I believe last year was a hybrid of Lavi's offense and Mo's defense (which was successful). Now, we're "full on" Maurice. Some might wonder why we're impatient to get rid of Maurice...but if you've been around for the duration...and you've witnessed six years of "dump and chase, stagnant offense, sit on a lead and play to lose" Maurice hockey...you can understand many fans' impatience.There is no "knee-jerk" reaction to firing Maurice because there's nothing on the other side. It may not make a momentous immediate change but we're not going to regret it in the long run.

Thank you!!  Finally someone that see's it the same way I do!!  For the most part Lavi's system of "scoring in bunches" worked for us but his system only works if you have a top notch defense that can be in the right place at the right time when mistakes are made.  When Mo came in here last year the ONLY thing he did was tweak the defense so they wouldn't be caught out of position as much.

Starting this season he began "anew" with his "play not to lose" and his "get a lead and sit on it" system.  That worked to some extent in the pre-lockout NHL, to do that now is not only stupid but arrogant!!

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[quote name='caniac-97 wrote:


wxray1']When he fired Lavi, I wondered if he thought someone would hire Lavi quickly?  Doesn't the new team take on Lavi's contract if hired?

If Lavi was hired by another team then his contract with us would terminate (unless it was like the Mo deal last year where Toronto "loaned" him to us).  He would sign a new contract with a new team.

I'm still a little surprized that somebody somewhere hasn't picked up Lavi.  Of course Lavi may be content to draw his check from PK until the end since he was spoken of so well after his departure.  I don't think PK and JR ever got over Lavi not showing up for the end of year meeting after the Florida loss on the last game of the year.

  

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


caniac-97 wrote:

wxray1']When he fired Lavi, I wondered if he thought someone would hire Lavi quickly?  Doesn't the new team take on Lavi's contract if hired?

If Lavi was hired by another team then his contract with us would terminate (unless it was like the Mo deal last year where Toronto "loaned" him to us).  He would sign a new contract with a new team.

I'm still a little surprized that somebody somewhere hasn't picked up Lavi.  Of course Lavi may be content to draw his check from PK until the end since he was spoken of so well after his departure.  I don't think PK and JR ever got over Lavi not showing up for the end of year meeting after the Florida loss on the last game of the year.

  I think Lavi collects $1.5-2mil a year from us, so I ask you would you be actively looking for employment??  LOL  I don't have anything to back it up but I think Lavi was PO'd he was forced to play veterans those last four games when Rats were getting the job done.  Had we kept the Rat Pack up for four more games we would have seen playoffs that year.  I can see him being PO'd and not wanting to hold player meetings because they let him down.

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[quote name='caniac-97 wrote:


super-dave-1 wrote:

caniac-97']If Lavi was hired by another team then his contract with us would terminate (unless it was like the Mo deal last year where Toronto "loaned" him to us).  He would sign a new contract with a new team.

I'm still a little surprized that somebody somewhere hasn't picked up Lavi.  Of course Lavi may be content to draw his check from PK until the end since he was spoken of so well after his departure.  I don't think PK and JR ever got over Lavi not showing up for the end of year meeting after the Florida loss on the last game of the year.

  
I think Lavi collects $1.5-2mil a year from us, so I ask you would you be actively looking for employment??  LOL  I don't have anything to back it up but I think Lavi was PO'd he was forced to play veterans those last four games when Rats were getting the job done.  Had we kept the Rat Pack up for four more games we would have seen playoffs that year.  I can see him being PO'd and not wanting to hold player meetings because they let him down.

I'm still PO'd about that one myself.

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Why Paul maurice has never been my favorite choice for coach,he is not the problem here it is our defense isit is absolutely the worse in the league. We need to look at making huge changes at the back end. Ward not the player he once was here, Alberts absolutely stinks and Pitkinen is hurt more than he plays maybe they need to keep him out longer and make sure he's 100% before allowing him to play. The other problem is other than Cam we do not have a stand on your head type goalie. Need to give Peters or Murphy a shot. But No matter what I have lived and died with this organization since it's inception in 1972 and this will tutrn around remember "You must crawl before you can walk" Go Canes!!!!!

Mo is the problem. His system is to protect the lead or go for the tie. This team isn't built for that type of style. He needs to implement a system that fits the team he has. These guys first instinct is to attack, and then they remember, oh wait, have to protect that 1 goal lead and they start chasing the puck and look like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off. They have no clue how to play this way. You can tell they look confused. That is the coach.

When Mo took over last year, he admitted that he used a hybrid system. He continued with Lavi's aggressive attack, but made the guys accountable in the defensive end. However, with a new season under way, its back to Mo hockey, protect the lead. 

This team is night and day when playing from behind or playing with the lead. Playing from behind, they actually look like a team that knows what they are doing. Defense is much better. When playing with the lead, they look like they've never played the game before. I just knew when we scored first these last 2 games that we were going to lose anyway. I'd much rather be losing going into the 3rd, than with the lead. Atleast losing, I know it'll be a good 20 minutes and the team will actually be enjoyable to watch b/c they are making plays and trying to score. Leading in the 3rd and we watch a bunch of skilled players sit back and 2nd guess whether they should attack or not only decide they better not but by then its too late they are chasing the other team and bam, next thing you know that lead is no longer a lead.

  

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


caniac-97 wrote:

wxray1']When he fired Lavi, I wondered if he thought someone would hire Lavi quickly?  Doesn't the new team take on Lavi's contract if hired?

If Lavi was hired by another team then his contract with us would terminate (unless it was like the Mo deal last year where Toronto "loaned" him to us).  He would sign a new contract with a new team.

I'm still a little surprized that somebody somewhere hasn't picked up Lavi.  Of course Lavi may be content to draw his check from PK until the end since he was spoken of so well after his departure.  I don't think PK and JR ever got over Lavi not showing up for the end of year meeting after the Florida loss on the last game of the year.

  My only guess is the nature of Lavi's game is so wreckless no GM want's to buy into a all offensive style they want some responsibility on the backend and that's not Lavi's idea. However, I would rather be a .500 team on the cusp of the playoffs each year which is what we were then flat out NOT even close. 

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I think JR is already convinced he is going to have to get rid of PM and that is what buying time is about. Seems to me the performance over these next six tough games is the only thing that might save PM's job. I have said all along the 5-10 minute defensive lapses (IMO) are really the only bad hockey the team plays. But in a league where so many explosive offensive players have to be faced every night those kinds of lapses no team can overcome. Take out the defensive lapses (present in almost every game) and we are at .500 or maybe a little better. This team is no where near as bad as all the dead last stats indicate nor as bad as the 5-16-5 indicates. This problem can be fixed with 60 minute effort.

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[quote name='legend-1 wrote:


super-dave-1 wrote:

caniac-97']If Lavi was hired by another team then his contract with us would terminate (unless it was like the Mo deal last year where Toronto "loaned" him to us).  He would sign a new contract with a new team.

I'm still a little surprized that somebody somewhere hasn't picked up Lavi.  Of course Lavi may be content to draw his check from PK until the end since he was spoken of so well after his departure.  I don't think PK and JR ever got over Lavi not showing up for the end of year meeting after the Florida loss on the last game of the year.

  
My only guess is the nature of Lavi's game is so wreckless no GM want's to buy into a all offensive style they want some responsibility on the backend and that's not Lavi's idea. However, I would rather be a .500 team on the cusp of the playoffs each year which is what we were then flat out NOT even close. 

I would rather play hard and just miss than to never even being in the game.

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Why Paul maurice has never been my favorite choice for coach,he is not the problem here it is our defense isit is absolutely the worse in the league. We need to look at making huge changes at the back end. Ward not the player he once was here, Alberts absolutely stinks and Pitkinen is hurt more than he plays maybe they need to keep him out longer and make sure he's 100% before allowing him to play. The other problem is other than Cam we do not have a stand on your head type goalie. Need to give Peters or Murphy a shot. But No matter what I have lived and died with this organization since it's inception in 1972 and this will tutrn around remember "You must crawl before you can walk" Go Canes!!!!!

If I am not mistaken, didn't Cam lose 12 in a row before he got hurt.  Cam wasn't exactly standing on his head.  And if it wasn't for Legace pulling some saves out of his !*#! the score would have been a heck of a lot worse than it was.   So maybe it isn't the goaltending......?!?!?!?!  I think Legace is a HUGE improvement over Leighton, and even if we had a Cam and Legace tandem, I still don't see us winning a whole heck of a lot of games with the defence we have in front of our goalies. 

  

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