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remkin

Worst to First: How Will It Happen?

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I guess this is one way to get me to NOT post in a thread! LOL

Regardless of player shuffles we need two things:

1) A coach that can motivate a team (a good coach can get great things out of mediocre players, a bad coach can make a good team look bad).

2) A team captain that can lead, in the locker room and the ice.  A vocal guy, no silent type.

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I guess this is one way to get me to NOT post in a thread! LOL

Regardless of player shuffles we need two things:

1) A coach that can motivate a team (a good coach can get great things out of mediocre players, a bad coach can make a good team look bad).

2) A team captain that can lead, in the locker room and the ice.  A vocal guy, no silent type.

Nothing personal I assure you. Just think that coaching/captain issues are covered in other threads. Certainly agree we need 1 and 2 of your post also.

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Nothing personal I assure you. Just think that coaching/captain issues are covered in other threads. Certainly agree we need 1 and 2 of your post also.

Isn't this also being covered in the GM thread?  You're essentially just re-working a roster for next year if I'm reading this right?

  

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


remkin']

Nothing personal I assure you. Just think that coaching/captain issues are covered in other threads. Certainly agree we need 1 and 2 of your post also.

Isn't this also being covered in the GM thread?  You're essentially just re-working a roster for next year if I'm reading this right?

  Ouch. That smarts embarassed.giffrown.gif. Don't use those smiley things, but had to pull them out here. Not sure why the rebuke. Just didn't want to get this on a Mo bashing thing.

Yes, I guess it is just more of the playing GM thread. Never mind. Move it over there if you want.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


TSA wrote:


remkin']

Nothing personal I assure you. Just think that coaching/captain issues are covered in other threads. Certainly agree we need 1 and 2 of your post also.

Isn't this also being covered in the GM thread?  You're essentially just re-working a roster for next year if I'm reading this right?

  
Ouch. That smarts embarassed.giffrown.gif. Don't use those smiley things, but had to pull them out here. Not sure why the rebuke. Just didn't want to get this on a Mo bashing thing.

Yes, I guess it is just more of the playing GM thread. Never mind. Move it over there if you want.

Haha I wasn't replying about your no coaching comments(yes I agree we have enough threads about that already), I was just wondering if your thread was about re-tooling the roster for next year like in the GM thread.  Kind of looks like it is.

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


remkin wrote:

TSA']

Isn't this also being covered in the GM thread?  You're essentially just re-working a roster for next year if I'm reading this right?

  

Ouch. That smarts
embarassed.giffrown.gif
. Don't use those smiley things, but had to pull them out here. Not sure why the rebuke. Just didn't want to get this on a Mo bashing thing.

Yes, I guess it is just more of the playing GM thread. Never mind. Move it over there if you want.

Haha I wasn't replying about your no coaching comments(yes I agree we have enough threads about that already), I was just wondering if your thread was about re-tooling the roster for next year like in the GM thread.  Kind of looks like it is.I was trying to suggest specific personnel steps that might bring about a dramatic turnaround in one year. They are all GM moves, so I guess it really is playing GM. I guess it is a variant of that thread, and close enough to be part of it if that would be better, though I was also trying to suggest that the worst to first in one year is seriously doable and how it could happen.

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Well without making specific suggestions like in the GM thread, I'd say going from worst to first is pretty tough to do in one year.  Some of the "experts" are using the current Flyers as an example of how a team may have went from the worst team in the league to a top contending team too fast.  The Flyers finished the 2006-07 season with 56 points and a record of 22-48-12 which doesn't seem too outrageous a number for the Canes to achieve.  They had a fire sale by the trade deadline, went crazy in the free agent market that summer and came back with a vengeance the following season.  They were able to make the playoffs no problem the following 2 seasons but were knocked out early on. 

This year was the year they supposedly solidified any roster short comings and were expected to make it to the finals but even after a great start to the season they find themselves spiralling downward out of control and can't figure out whats gone wrong.  It was a big topic of discussion on XM and they felt that a team that goes through the rebuilding process has to take its time and make the right moves that will secure the future for the franchise, and not just go out and band aid holes with expensive free agents who's contracts could eventually hinder the team.  Teams have to draft and develop their own players and bring them up through the system so as veteran salaries come off the books, there's cap space to re-sign the core and add complementary pieces along the way.

This appears to be the approach JR is taking which kind of sucks for us waiting it out, but I'd rather JR took the time to do this the right way so we have years of contending teams to look forward to. 

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Well without making specific suggestions like in the GM thread, I'd say going from worst to first is pretty tough to do in one year.  Some of the "experts" are using the current Flyers as an example of how a team may have went from the worst team in the league to a top contending team too fast.  The Flyers finished the 2006-07 season with 56 points and a record of 22-48-12 which doesn't seem too outrageous a number for the Canes to achieve.  They had a fire sale by the trade deadline, went crazy in the free agent market that summer and came back with a vengeance the following season.  They were able to make the playoffs no problem the following 2 seasons but were knocked out early on. 

This year was the year they supposedly solidified any roster short comings and were expected to make it to the finals but even after a great start to the season they find themselves spiralling downward out of control and can't figure out whats gone wrong.  It was a big topic of discussion on XM and they felt that a team that goes through the rebuilding process has to take its time and make the right moves that will secure the future for the franchise, and not just go out and band aid holes with expensive free agents who's contracts could eventually hinder the team.  Teams have to draft and develop their own players and bring them up through the system so as veteran salaries come off the books, there's cap space to re-sign the core and add complementary pieces along the way.

This appears to be the approach JR is taking which kind of sucks for us waiting it out, but I'd rather JR took the time to do this the right way so we have years of contending teams to look forward to. 

 Wow!! Well said TSA!icon_applause2.gif

  

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I think we HAVE to pick smartly in the draft. Aside from Staal, most of our first round picks have been absolute busts. Getting that number one pick would be much easier to do this as from what I've seen Hall is the consensus number one pick.

Call up a few of Tlusty/Boychuck/Bowman/Samson on offense, and call up a few of Rodney/Carson/Borer/McBain on defense. Also resign Cullen and Whitney to 2 year deals after the season (and hopefully after trading them to contending teams down the stretch for picks). Then with the money we are getting from Walker/Wallin/Corvo/AWard/etc. we make a bit of a big FA push for some top offense or top defense. Also I know how much Brindamour has done for this franchise, but he is holding this team back a bit right now as his reputation commands a spot on the PK/PP and top 3 lines, but his play is showing he is a 4th line guy at best now. Also somehow getting that 3.5 million back in the offseason would be ideal.............

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Forslund did use the Philly example, and claimed that in the age of the salary cap teams can make much faster turnarounds than in the past. To me the key is the core left and the quality of the up and comers.

I am counting on guys we've drafted moving up for us to be good next year, and the #1 pick next year should be an immediate impact player. Further, this team's core is better than our record. I think lifting a couple of key veterans off this team will pick the core's play up. Add that top line winger to give us a legitimate first line threat, and we would have that to go with a second line threat, and a third line full of talent and potential, and a couple of 4th liners who could move up, and with a goalie like Ward...we might not go to "first", but we could make the playoffs year one.

I'm proposing a lot of guys coming off the cap and no fewer than 6 and possibly seven very young players:

#1 draft pick, Sutter, Boychuk, Tlusy, Dwyer, Carson, Rodney. Only ONE free agent, but make him really a good one. This is not the Philly plan.

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Cam was a pretty good pickup.

Sutter shows promise.

JR has had some busts, for sure, but not every year.

People also forget Jack Johnston and Andrew Ladd......and while they didn't stay Canes, they brought us Tuomo Ruutu and Timmy Gleason.  Those were good first rounders as well.

  

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Last night on the radio Forslund again mentioned that the old 5 year turnaround time is not necessary with the salary cap and league parity.

Given the strength of this year's draft this may be the perfect year to drop to the bottom and stockpile picks for vets.

One last time I will suggest that my plan is not the Philly plan. I see us using a LOT of younger players. I propose putting all of our free agent eggs in the basket of one top line winger, use all of the cap space provided by letting a bunch of vets go to get that one guy. Then keep a few key vets and bring up a bunch of young guys. That one guy plus Staal gives us legit #1 line immediately. That Tyler Hall plus Matt Cullen gives us a potent second line immediately. Keep Ruutu and Jokinen to round out these lines and we will have serious scoring chops out of the box.

Will that team actually go to first? Probably not, but I predict that they could make a serious run at the playoffs as they build experience for the future. We would go from the oldest to one of the youngest teams overnight, but still have a veteran presence and a solid goalie. This is why we must endure this now and not get too down over this year. Again, the perfect year to drop down in many ways.

Ok this thread can now settle into obscurity. Just wanted to give it one last breath.

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Only one comment, See Blackhawks.

Good veteran core(only 5 players 30+). Excellent youth core.

Yes! If you look at my proposed line up, it would be similar. I don't know how old the FA pickup would be, but other than Legacy, there are no old timers. This would not be a collection of free agents. In fact just one. The rest are current players on the team or in the system plus the draft pick.

In fact, JR can trade all the vets for picks or prospects. He just needs to free up the cap space to bring in that one guy.

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i like your plan. i was thinking the same thing. what top line winger do you have in mind?
Now here I must admit a weakness. I really don't know who will be on the market next year. It would be interesting to see a list. I would like to see a legitimate first line winger even a middle of the pack points guy but proven production. If underated all the better (think 06 Stillman).

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


hurricanes1210']i like your plan. i was thinking the same thing. what top line winger do you have in mind?

Now here I must admit a weakness. I really don't know who will be on the market next year. It would be interesting to see a list. I would like to see a legitimate first line winger even a middle of the pack points guy but proven production. If underated all the better (think 06 Stillman).

how about frolov from LA.  dont know if he is a FA at seasons end, but i like the guy

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[quote name='hurricanes1210 wrote:


remkin wrote:

hurricanes1210']i like your plan. i was thinking the same thing. what top line winger do you have in mind?

Now here I must admit a weakness. I really don't know who will be on the market next year. It would be interesting to see a list. I would like to see a legitimate first line winger even a middle of the pack points guy but proven production. If underated all the better (think 06 Stillman).

how about frolov from LA.  dont know if he is a FA at seasons end, but i like the guy

His name has been kicked around these boards as a possibility. I would take him.

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It takes a lot but this team needs to start having good drafts. While I do like what I see from the youth we have in Albany, it still kinda stings us with all the unpanned picks in years past. I just got done looking at the 2001 draft, we had the 15th pick that year, we took some defensemen named Igor. Igor never made it to the NHL, left for Russia in 2004. Right there is a pick wasted, gone, washed away. Now I don't remember what our needs were that off-season but here are some of the guys we could have gone with that year. R.J. Umberger, Shaone Morrison, and Colby Armstrong. In 1999 we took David Tanabe. Barret Jackman was available, Martin Havlet was available. In 1998 we took a guy named Jeff Hereema. Alex Tangauy was available, Scott Gomez was available, Simon Gagne was available. It would really hurt if whoever we pick in the first round this summer, assuming we keep that pick, turned out to be a bust.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


hurricanes1210 wrote:

remkin']Now here I must admit a weakness. I really don't know who will be on the market next year. It would be interesting to see a list. I would like to see a legitimate first line winger even a middle of the pack points guy but proven production. If underated all the better (think 06 Stillman).

how about frolov from LA.  dont know if he is a FA at seasons end, but i like the guy

His name has been kicked around these boards as a possibility. I would take him.

I have Frolov written up in the teams plans, JR has coveted this guy for quite some time now! Fingers crossed for a great offseason!

  

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If we assume for the moment that we are not making the playoffs; then assume for a moment that we succeed in getting the top pick. It is then quite possible for the core of this team to make a very nice turnaround next year.
I think the only team Carolina has to worry about beating them out for the #1 overall pick is Edmonton.  A better question is:

Why do the Oilers find themselves in this position?  Because they pinned their hopes (this year and last) on their young kids -

particularly their young forwards - being ready for full-time duty.  Hasn't worked out yet and may not for the foreseeable future.

Interesting that it's the same plan JR has with Sutter, Tlusty, Boychuk, etc.  It could put a pretty big dent in the worst-to-first

turnaround everyone seems to think will happen.  A more likely scenario may be the "quick turnaround" ... will be 3 to 4 years.

        

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