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The Race for the #1 pick in 2010!

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There doesn't need to be an Ovechkin to make it worth getting a top pick. A Stamkos or Tavares would be just fine. Look back earlier in this thread or look up the top 2 picks for the last 10 years. Not many duds in that lot. When this thread was started we were in last and guaranteed a top 2 pick. Only time will tell where the eventual top 2 picks end up in hockey history, but the odds are good that they will do better than whomever is picked 14 and 15.

It is certainly not the end of the world to not get in the top 5, but it increases the chances that we will get a future star dramatically.

The conversation started when I contested the statement that not getting a top draft pick is going to hurt our team.  There is a big difference between not helping us as much as actually hurting us.  I don't disagree that getting a top pick increases the chances of getting a great player but not getting it is not going to hurt us.  It just may not be as easy to find that future great player but they will be there for the picking outside of top 2 as well.  We have a good core of players, I don't think we need a top 2 to improve.  I think we can do it without it. My point here is need versus want or nice to have. 

I know you are pretty firmly in the lets get back to losing camp and if that works for you, more power to ya.  I just can't do it.  It doesn't make sense in my world for me to want my team to lose.  Perhaps because I think JR can still ice a good competitive team next year without losing the majority of games the rest of our season this year.  Perhaps it is just because I know our chances of actually getting a top 2 are going to be very low.  After the deadline,we will still have a good core group of players that will wins games for us this year.  That's not happening in Edmonton.  Florida is going down the toilet too.  Look at the last 10 record of the teams in front of us.  I think we will play ourselves out of the bottom 5 but barely.   Who's to say JR doesn't parley the draft picks he is pocketing into getting one of those high picks?  Who knows?  I just think we don't have to lose now to be good next year.   I don't get all the pessimism about our future if we don't end up with a top 2 draft pick.  Not by you, but it's out there.  No need to try to explain it, it will probably never sink into my blonde, Polish, lefthanded brain.  wink.gif

The one thing I find very interesting about our situation is that there are just as many people who think we can get that top draft pick as there are those who still think we can make the playofffs.  A case could be made for both albiet not strong ones.

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Think people are confusing  HEART AND HEAD here.

No 'fan" want the team you root for to lose, and i still go into each game screaming my head for a "W".

But, my head, when step away from the emotional( heart) part, and look at it logically, sees a top pick as being better for the Franchise going forward- and coming in 9th or 15th in divsion useless. So would rather have a higher pick, which gives more chance for the better player.

Its not the end of the world, nor will the franchise  collapse if we have the 17th pick or the 2nd pick( edmonton has pretty much locked that 30th down) or any pick in between. I'm not rooting for loses, but i'm also not as crushed or care as much as normally do if we lose, because see the 'ray of sunshine" in this( a higher pick).

So maybe its just me, but can say i'm not rooting for a loss, but i'm also not really bothered by it now( lost the emotional part back in oct/nov during the Streak).This winning streak has been fun nd i've enjoyed the heck out of it and if it continues, i'm happy, but if it doesn't, i'm also not going to Agnst either, if that makes sense

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Think people are confusing  HEART AND HEAD here.

I guess so because I don't see the difference when you are posting on a message board that you prefer your team to lose it's way into a high draft pick.  Neither my heart or my head can get there.  I understood it several months ago when we had nothing but 14 game losing streaks, 207 days between road wins etc.  But we are not that team anymore and even with a fire sale, I don't think we see that team again this year.  I'm with you, I'm cheering for a win but a loss is not totally disappointing.  But I'd rather win our way into 11th place than lose our way into last.  Yes I know the advantages are greater for the latter when it comes to the draft but not with my spirit when I look at this year's season ticket invoice.  That's my internal conflict.  I want to see wins for the remaining home games because the last few games were flipping fun!  That's why I pay the big bucks.

But I can understand the internal conflict for those who have set their sites on the possibility of having another Eric Staal type on our team via a top pick. 

Come to think of it, since I don't have a dog in the top draft pick fight, I really have no business posting in this thread. happy.gif  I think I'll let you all carry on with your dreams and stop being a party pooper.  Toodles.  (don't cheer too loud ya'll).

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


canes-in-7']Think people are confusing  HEART AND HEAD here.

I guess so because I don't see the difference when you are posting on a message board that you prefer your team to lose it's way into a high draft pick.  Neither my heart or my head can get there.  I understood it several months ago when we had nothing but 14 game losing streaks, 207 days between road wins etc.  But we are not that team anymore and even with a fire sale, I don't think we see that team again this year.  I'm with you, I'm cheering for a win but a loss is not totally disappointing.  But I'd rather win our way into 11th place than lose our way into last.  Yes I know the advantages are greater for the latter when it comes to the draft but not with my spirit when I look at this year's season ticket invoice.  That's my internal conflict.  I want to see wins for the remaining home games because the last few games were flipping fun!  That's why I pay the big bucks.

But I can understand the internal conflict for those who have set their sites on the possibility of having another Eric Staal type on our team via a top pick. 

Come to think of it, since I don't have a dog in the top draft pick fight, I really have no business posting in this thread. happy.gif  I think I'll let you all carry on with your dreams and stop being a party pooper.  Toodles.  (don't cheer too loud ya'll).

Again, you arent reading the posts.. i say " i will scream my head off to win all games'.. and you still insist " guess so because I don't see the difference when you are posting on a message board that you prefer your team to lose it's way into a high draft pick. ".

I don't prefer it by any means- just not upset if happens, and from a pure intellectual excercise it makes more sense obviously to be a higher pick

think we are actually on the same page, just differ on how express it the day after : )

  

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I see everyone's points on where you come down in this discussion but I also agree that a top pick is not neccesarily the be all -end all for this team. The draft is designed so that last place teams can improve quickly and also engender interest with name guys coming out of the draft(part of the business end of sports). But as we all now see in a big way, this is nowhere close to a last place team. So in a larger sense, we will get what we deserve in the draft, as will most other clubs. I agree with those that believe there are good/great players in all places in the draft, but in the end, effort and class is what I want to see for my money, and if 14th,15th, in the draft is what that means then so be it. Our core is strong enough to compete for the cup with a couple shrewd moves by JR, and we all know he is capable of that.

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I find it very amusing that this is still being discussed.  Particularly since Edmonton had the "race for the #1 pick in 2010" wrapped up over two weeks ago. Just watch their games, you will understand.  

Maybe the thread should be renamed "The Race For As Low As We Can Go" or something like that.  But, I don't want to spoil the fun. cool.gif   

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JR clearly agrees with Canes-in-7.  He wants the team to go out there and play their best and hopefully win.  But at the same time, he's shipping out Cullen, Whitney, Wallin, maybe Corvo.  Because he wants to win next year and the years after more than he wants to win for the rest of this season .  And while I'm sure he loves seeing the team pull together and run off a streak, if they were to start losing and get the Canes a better pick to help out in the future, that's okay too.  

Because the goal of moving from 14th to 10th pales in comparison to the goal of running deep in the playoffs. 

And the draft has become particularly exciting with the recent scouting abilities of the Canes.  A lot of the moves involving guys under 25 have paid off extremely well for the team.  

Ruutuu for Ladd, Justin Williams for Danny Markov, Dennis Seidenberg for Kevyn Adams, Samsonav off waivers, Jokinen for a 4th rounder, Gleason for Jack Johnson.  Pitkanen for Cole.  With Sutter, Boychuck, Bowman, Tlusty, and McBain being the products of the last 3 drafts that are all NHL or near NHL ready already.

Good things are happening as of late, and the prospect of giving more chips for JR to play with is an exciting one the way things have been going.

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...and then there is still the NHL Draft Lottery.

Even if the Oilers forfeit the rest of their games they still have to hope for the dice to fall in their favor. Sure, they can't do worse than a second overall pick but the #1 pick could still fall as low as to the 26th ranked team. Should get interesting trying to double guess JR and some other GMs once the picks are set. 

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I never really want the team to actually lose, just like I really don't like to work out. I do like to "have worked out" though. I understand it is contradictory to come onto a fan message board and express the idea that losing may be the best thing long term, but it may well be true.

This season has to be put in context of a few things that make it a very unusual situation. 9/10 years I am all out win every game, but this year:

1. We dropped like a rock. It was so fast, so soon that is was over, that the idea of the first pick was very real very fast.

2. We have had several years of low-mid round picks. Including a couple of years where we have just missed the playoffs.

3. We are in a very unusual position this year. Due to the Brind'Amour fiasco (IMHO), we have had an pathetic record, but with a pretty good core

of players. This allows us to dip down ONE TIME, grab the star draft pick and shoot right back up. This is not the case for most teams with our

record. It is very unlikely that Oilers will have a one year huge turnaround.

Anyway, it's a tough sell, but just offering an opinion.

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I never really want the team to actually lose, just like I really don't like to work out. I do like to "have worked out" though. I understand it is contradictory to come onto a fan message board and express the idea that losing may be the best thing long term, but it may well be true.

This season has to be put in context of a few things that make it a very unusual situation. 9/10 years I am all out win every game, but this year:

1. We dropped like a rock. It was so fast, so soon that is was over, that the idea of the first pick was very real very fast.

2. We have had several years of low-mid round picks. Including a couple of years where we have just missed the playoffs.

3. We are in a very unusual position this year. Due to the Brind'Amour fiasco (IMHO), we have had an pathetic record, but with a pretty good core

of players. This allows us to dip down ONE TIME, grab the star draft pick and shoot right back up. This is not the case for most teams with our

record. It is very unlikely that Oilers will have a one year huge turnaround.

Anyway, it's a tough sell, but just offering an opinion.

I think alot of us understand where you are coming from and don't crucify you for it.  You may be right.  But you may not.  Trading our aging players for draft picks and prospects could have the same result in the end.  Time will tell.  One thing I do agree on, this team has the core to turn things around fairly quickly.  That's a luxury some don't have. 

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Can we change the title of this thread to "The Race for the #3 pick in 2010!"

If we are not going to get one of the top three picks in this draft, then I don't think it's going to matter too much where we end up, as far as adding to the overall talent level of the team.  Most of the guys ranked 4th through about 15th this year seem to move up or down 5 or 6 places each time a new ranking comes out.  With Columbus, Toronto and NYI joining the Edmonton Oil Tankers in their downward spiral, it doesn't look too much like we are going to get any immediate help in the draft next year. 

At this point, I would just as well keep winning and draft 12th  than play mediocre and draft 5th or 6th.  I think that instilling a winning mentality in our young players will do more for us next year than a marginal increase in talent from the draft.

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I never really want the team to actually lose, just like I really don't like to work out. I do like to "have worked out" though. I understand it is contradictory to come onto a fan message board and express the idea that losing may be the best thing long term, but it may well be true.

This season has to be put in context of a few things that make it a very unusual situation. 9/10 years I am all out win every game, but this year:

1. We dropped like a rock. It was so fast, so soon that is was over, that the idea of the first pick was very real very fast.

2. We have had several years of low-mid round picks. Including a couple of years where we have just missed the playoffs.

3. We are in a very unusual position this year. Due to the Brind'Amour fiasco (IMHO), we have had an pathetic record, but with a pretty good core

of players. This allows us to dip down ONE TIME, grab the star draft pick and shoot right back up. This is not the case for most teams with our

record. It is very unlikely that Oilers will have a one year huge turnaround.

Anyway, it's a tough sell, but just offering an opinion.

Ok I lied.  I'm back.  But only because I wanted to say you make some very good points in your analysis, excellent points actually.  I just think that ending up in the bottom five is looking more and more unlikely primarily because of #3 - our good core of players many of whom are red hot right now.  Maybe the big dump in a few weeks will take the air out of their tires, offset the chemistry they finally found, or maybe it will give them more spark as the Cullen trade seemed to do even if it was just one game.  Who knows, we have some very interesting upcoming months ahead of us for a variety of reasons.  

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I actually think that turnaround has already begun. With all the injuries, the influx of young players began a couple months ago, and with continued production of those we expect it from, career type year from JJ, good goal-tending, all the elements are already in place. There are changes to still be made, but i think we are taking on the look of the team we want to be and will be for a few years to come. More baggage to get rid of, and the young players we've already seen will be back after the break and many of them next season, so with one or two good moves on JR's part, this team is ready to win. Just hope they all get the memo that the season starts in Oct.

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I actually think that turnaround has already begun. With all the injuries, the influx of young players began a couple months ago, and with continued production of those we expect it from, career type year from JJ, good goal-tending, all the elements are already in place. There are changes to still be made, but i think we are taking on the look of the team we want to be and will be for a few years to come. More baggage to get rid of, and the young players we've already seen will be back after the break and many of them next season, so with one or two good moves on JR's part, this team is ready to win. Just hope they all get the memo that the season starts in Oct.
Great post, and something that hasn't really been thrown around. 

  

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


caniacbeej']I actually think that turnaround has already begun. With all the injuries, the influx of young players began a couple months ago, and with continued production of those we expect it from, career type year from JJ, good goal-tending, all the elements are already in place. There are changes to still be made, but i think we are taking on the look of the team we want to be and will be for a few years to come. More baggage to get rid of, and the young players we've already seen will be back after the break and many of them next season, so with one or two good moves on JR's part, this team is ready to win. Just hope they all get the memo that the season starts in Oct.

Great post, and something that hasn't really been thrown around. 

  

Ditto what CC said.  A refreshing view that really has been right in front of all of us.

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playoffs... ur talking playoffs???????????????????   well lets see  in about 3 weeks, im not talking draft    at all....    its a mute  point  now, maybe not later, the idea that  top 3  picks  are nhl caliber is NOT  100 percent

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I'd love to see the Oilers win, but unfortunately, them winning right now doesn't help the organization at all. They've been needing an overhaul ever since Pronger took his toys and left. And since the Oilers can't sign/trade for any big-name players they have no choice but to draft one. They need to trade a lot of the bad contracts they have and ditch most of the '06 vets.

This organization needs a major facelift and maybe drafting a potential star can start the tides of change.

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I'd love to see the Oilers win, but unfortunately, them winning right now doesn't help the organization at all. They've been needing an overhaul ever since Pronger took his toys and left. And since the Oilers can't sign/trade for any big-name players they have no choice but to draft one. They need to trade a lot of the bad contracts they have and ditch most of the '06 vets.

This organization needs a major facelift and maybe drafting a potential star can start the tides of change.

I think the Oil will have a really tough time accomplishing anything dramatic or in a hurry this year. Major facelifts are tough if your are only looking at giving up about $ 6 mil. with your UFAs this summer and your long term and high-end contract players are not doing anything to draw any attention from other GMs.        

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Our only hope is a trade to Boston for Toronto's pick...we're playing really well and with Cole, Ruutu and Corvo on the way back, I think we can only get better. That of course, fits right into my plan so we can get Teemu Pulkkinen and/or Mikael Granlund to add to our Finnish Mafia.
Mikael Granlund has been nothing short of spectacular. It´s his first season in Finnish Elite League and he´s putting up some impressive numbers for a 17 year old boy. 9 + 23 in 34 games against men is unheard of in here. Saku Koivus rookie numbers for example were 3+7 in 46 games. Granlund is very good, but his skating raise some questions. He is also quite small.  

  Mikael Granlund, kuva: Jussi Nukari/Lehtikuva

Teemu Pulkkinen was expected to break into Jokerit´s lineup this year, but then came injuries and Battaglia / Nylander duo who took his spot from the scoring line. It´s not wise to play future superstar in third or fourth line , so they send him back to junior-A´s. He´s just too good to play in there:

in 14 games he´s done 15 goals and 19 assists.

1724155-400_teeemu.jpg

It would be really cool if Canes drafted one of them.

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is there a hockey player under those advertisements?
A few weeks ago, Tripp made a comment on how hockey was like NASCAR.  I thought it was stupid at the time, but after seeing those pics, I can see how.

Edit:  Darn you coastal, you beat me to it.   We must have been typing at the same time.  

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is there a hockey player under those advertisements?
edoris.dll?tem=dorispreview&doc_id=1784863

kuva

No.

I´m delighted that they didn´t decide to put those Lubrication center (voitelukeskus) ads down there where Toivonen now advertise.    

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