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djharley

WHAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM ??

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1) We have 2 fourth lines.  No team with a third line of Dwyer and Kostoplous is going to be successful in the NHL unless you have some 100 point guys on your top two.

2) We have 2 third pairings.  No team relying on some combination of Carson/Alberts/Ward/Wallin to carry a heavy burden is going to be successful in the NHL.

The team is getting better though as the right players have trickled back in off the IR.  The team should be around .500 the rest of the way out barring things getting worse injury wise.  6-6-2 since december.  40 goals in 14 games, which is around 2.8 a game.   

   What is wrong with Dwyer and TKO?  They've looked better than our inconsistent superstars more often than not.  At least you know what you're getting from those two:  110% every game.

2 3rd pairings?  Alberts is a 3rd pair guy?  Look at Albert's stats man.  Carson was a friggin beast last night, and looked absolutely fantastic for a developing defenseman.  Puck movement, passing, powerplay, lazy penalties,  and faceoffs are at the root of our problems.  You can't win scoring one or two goals a night.

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The young players are showing mixed results. The only remedy is to play them for development.

Sutter is here for good, that's a no brainer. However, Dwyer has several gaps in his game. IMO he doesn't win the half-board battles and has shown poor anticipation regarding where the play is going. Tlusty on the other hand has shown excellence in those two areas in the brief time he's played. Boychuk simply needs more time, and I'd play him before Dwyer right now, where it is clear Dwyer needs development.

Rodney and Carson have shown mixed results, but look good compared to Aaron Ward (who doesn't). I hate when they make errors, but that is how they'll improve. Alternatively we'll find out they aren't the answer - but they have to play. Look at how Alberts has improved from early this season to present.

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   What is wrong with Dwyer and TKO?  They've looked better than our inconsistent superstars more often than not.  At least you know what you're getting from those two:  110% every game.

2 3rd pairings?  Alberts is a 3rd pair guy?  Look at Albert's stats man.  Carson was a friggin beast last night, and looked absolutely fantastic for a developing defenseman.  Puck movement, passing, powerplay, lazy penalties,  and faceoffs are at the root of our problems.  You can't win scoring one or two goals a night.

You know you get 110% every game.  You also know you get AHL level offensive ability.  You want more than two goals a night you can't have 2 guys who aren't on pace to break double digits in goals on your 3rd line.  Effort without talent is great for the 4th line, but is tough to compensate for on the 3rd line.  

Alberts IS on our 3rd pairing.  He logs the least minutes and draws the easiest assisgnments.  Less than 16 minutes a night, and he plays against the 3rd and 4th lines of the other team.   I like Alberts, but when playing Pittsburgh, I don't want him on the Ice against Crosby's line or Malkin's line if it can be avoided.

Carson has been alright.  The beast got manhandled in front of the net by Gaborik for the rangers lone goal.  Which is nothing to be ashamed of.  But that's a problem a team with 4 guys in that talent level range are going to face.   Guys who are going to be put in positions where they are outmatched.  That doesn't make him a bad player.  It just is a matter of having more responsibility than we want him to have at this point.

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Main problem and my biggest complaint this year:

WORK ETHIC

Agree with ya Ivy, but whom does that fall on the players or the Coaching staff? I guess its probably a little of both, but with that said it's the players that aren't earning their paychecks!IMO.

  

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[quote name=wallym]

Outside of our leading scorer and aaron ward, who do you feel is dogging it on the ice?If this was meant for me,  dogging might not be the correct term, just no chemistry and therefore not playing up to their potential. Just to me, it seems like they just don't have that so called drive that they used to. Seem to have the "defeatist" attitude!

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[quote name='djharley wrote:


wallym
']

Outside of our leading scorer and aaron ward, who do you feel is dogging it on the ice?

If this was meant for me,  dogging might not be the correct term, just no chemistry and therefore not playing up to their potential. Just to me, it seems like they just don't have that so called drive that they used to. Seem to have the "defeatist" attitude!I agree.  I think chemistry, and not enough talent are the culprits.  That's just a big difference than work ethic which implies that the team isn't trying hard.  

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[quote name='wallym wrote:


djharley wrote:

wallym
']Outside of our leading scorer and aaron ward, who do you feel is dogging it on the ice?

If this was meant for me,  dogging might not be the correct term, just no chemistry and therefore not playing up to their potential. Just to me, it seems like they just don't have that so called drive that they used to. Seem to have the "defeatist" attitude!
I agree.  I think chemistry, and not enough talent are the culprits.  That's just a big difference than work ethic which implies that the team isn't trying hard.  Still falls back on coaching!  You take the talent you have and work with it, get the most out of what is there.  We HAVE the talent, chemistry won't happen when you have a coach that mixes up line combination's 3,000 times a game.  Chemistry is knowing where your line mates are going to be in a given situation, you can't develop that if you don't know who your line mates are going to be shift to shift.

Some of the best coaches out there didn't always have all the best talent but knew how to get the most out of what they had.  This rule applies no matter the sport.

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I'm surprised GM's don't give the coaches the 7 year 80 million dollar contracts since they are the one's who decide the games and not the level of talent on the ice.

I guess Latvia just didn't pick a good enough coach.   

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I'm surprised GM's don't give the coaches the 7 year 80 million dollar contracts since they are the one's who decide the games and not the level of talent on the ice.

I guess Latvia just didn't pick a good enough coach.   
yep, just look at my beloved Redskins.  They have top dollar talent but have an owner that thinks he's smart enough to coach and a coach that let him.  Take a look at where they finished and then the coach get's fired.  Just look at Joe Gibbs during the pre-snyder years, took three different teams with three different quarterbacks to the super bowl.  enough said.

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I'm surprised GM's don't give the coaches the 7 year 80 million dollar contracts since they are the one's who decide the games and not the level of talent on the ice.

I guess Latvia just didn't pick a good enough coach.   
I see what you're doing here, but it takes a mixture of both coaching and talent.  We know that there is enough talent on this team to make it to the ECF's (that was an overachievement, but you get the point).  At the same time you can say that the coach took this talented bunch to the playoffs.  The same coach took another bunch to the SCF's and then stunk up the joint.  We are pretty stinky right now. 

The group of players on the ice now isn't performing up to what we expect from them.  Some of it is age (Father Time is undefeated).  Some of it is injury.  Some is simply a lack of effort.  Some is chemistry.  Some is that the coach isn't doing the things that give them the best chance to succeed.  Some of this will take care of itself next year as some older players leave.  I would hope that some young blood will kick up the effort some.  The coaching staff is going to have to motivate the team and get the right scheme to develope the chemistry and results.

A good coach can take a group with limited ability and sometimes get extraordinary results.  A bad coach can do the exact opposite too.

  

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If Staal and Ward are out with injury during the playoffs last year, do you think the team beats NJ and Boston?  
Of course not but remember, Cam wasn't hurt through 11 games of the 14 game losing streak.  Wasn't Staal playing then too? 

The bottom line is that there is too much talent on this team to lose 14 games in a row.  I agree that a huge portion of the blame falls on the players but I just can't give the coach a free pass on it either.

  

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If Staal and Ward are out with injury during the playoffs last year, do you think the team beats NJ and Boston?  
Under Mo then no but Lavi yes.  During '05-'06 on numerous occasions we would be down a goal or three in the third period but those guys believed they were NEVER out of a game.  We won most of those.

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[quote name=eek.gifTSA]Wasn't there another thread exactly like this not too long ago?

Right now I'd have to say the Canes main problems are Edmonton and Columbus wink.gif

Edit:  Here's the same thread and it was yours DJ.  You must have forgotten you started that one too.

http://fans.hurricanes.nhl.com/topic/15979ohwell.gif

Guess it hasn't been fixed yet!?eek.giflol

At least i am consistant

  

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[quote name='caniac-97 wrote:


wallym']If Staal and Ward are out with injury during the playoffs last year, do you think the team beats NJ and Boston?  

Under Mo then no but Lavi yes.  During '05-'06 on numerous occasions we would be down a goal or three in the third period but those guys believed they were NEVER out of a game.  We won most of those.

Just to be clear, Lavi couldn't get the Canes into the playoffs from 06-07 to 08-09, but he could have beat NJ and Boston last year without Staal and Ward?

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[quote name='wallym wrote:


caniac-97 wrote:

wallym']If Staal and Ward are out with injury during the playoffs last year, do you think the team beats NJ and Boston?  

Under Mo then no but Lavi yes.  During '05-'06 on numerous occasions we would be down a goal or three in the third period but those guys believed they were NEVER out of a game.  We won most of those.

Just to be clear, Lavi couldn't get the Canes into the playoffs from 06-07 to 08-09, but he could have beat NJ and Boston last year without Staal and Ward?

He is more of a motivator than Mo, Mo tweaked the defense and left the offense alone.  He isn't the genius you seem to think he is!

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I didn't claim he was a genius. I just claimed Mo took a team to the ECF that Lavi wasn't going to get into the playoffs. So I'm surprised someone would think the guy who was going to miss the playoffs for the 3rd straight year would beat Boston and New Jersey in the playoffs without the two best players.

The obvious point that I was making is that there is correlation between skill on the ice and sensible expectation for most people. If you are missing your best players, you will lose more.

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I didn't claim he was a genius. I just claimed Mo took a team to the ECF that Lavi wasn't going to get into the playoffs. So I'm surprised someone would think the guy who was going to miss the playoffs for the 3rd straight year would beat Boston and New Jersey in the playoffs without the two best players.

The obvious point that I was making is that there is correlation between skill on the ice and sensible expectation for most people. If you are missing your best players, you will lose more.

Not necessarily, year before last we were playing a bunch of Rats and almost made the playoffs had someone in the organization decided to put the returning wounded back in.  The returning wounded didn't get it done and we missed the playoffs.

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[quote name='caniac-97 wrote:


wallym wrote:

djharley']If this was meant for me,  dogging might not be the correct term, just no chemistry and therefore not playing up to their potential. Just to me, it seems like they just don't have that so called drive that they used to. Seem to have the "defeatist" attitude!

I agree.  I think chemistry, and not enough talent are the culprits.  That's just a big difference than work ethic which implies that the team isn't trying hard.  
Still falls back on coaching!  You take the talent you have and work with it, get the most out of what is there.  We HAVE the talent, chemistry won't happen when you have a coach that mixes up line combination's 3,000 times a game.  Chemistry is knowing where your line mates are going to be in a given situation, you can't develop that if you don't know who your line mates are going to be shift to shift.

Some of the best coaches out there didn't always have all the best talent but knew how to get the most out of what they had.  This rule applies no matter the sport.

Yep, I agree. As much as I hate to admit it, Linda Ruff up in Buffalo is a prime example. They don't put a lot of pucks in the net, but they can play a lock down defense to make up for it (and it doesn't hurt that they have Miller in net). 

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Not necessarily, year before last we were playing a bunch of Rats and almost made the playoffs had someone in the organization decided to put the returning wounded back in.  The returning wounded didn't get it done and we missed the playoffs.

The "rat pack" was playing far above expectations and the Canes were withing one win of the SE Division crown.  Someone (JR or Lavi) made the decision to return the vets before they were healed and the rest was history.

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Least Lavi had us close to the playoffs both years, close enough a small change got us into the playoffs. However Mo's large change has completely destroyed a team who stayed together for the most part.

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The "rat pack" was playing far above expectations and the Canes were withing one win of the SE Division crown.  Someone (JR or Lavi) made the decision to return the vets before they were healed and the rest was history.

I still feel that one right in the daddy parts.

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