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Mayo83

Brind'Amour

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I wonder if Brind AMour doesn't it do it on his own as in retire after this season he'll more than most likely be put on waivers. What do you all think?
He will most likely be bought out.  That will be the best case scenario for the club, will most likely happen after this season.

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A waiver claim would be best - we would owe nothing and no cap hit - but is very unlikely to happen. Retirement would be next best, we still get the full cap hit but don't have to pay the salary. Buyout is most likely but worst for the team - costs them 2/3 salary and a full cap hit. I'm hopeful he will retire, but can't say I expect him to.

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A waiver claim would be best - we would owe nothing and no cap hit - but is very unlikely to happen. Retirement would be next best, we still get the full cap hit but don't have to pay the salary. Buyout is most likely but worst for the team - costs them 2/3 salary and a full cap hit. I'm hopeful he will retire, but can't say I expect him to.

Obviously no one will trade for him and no one will take him on waivers, even though that would be great.  Rod won't retire, why walk away from a guaranteed 3 million?  The only situation where Rod won't be on the team next year would be a buyout.  We actually won't have the full cap hit, it would be the same as the salary as what we owe him; 1 million over the next two years.  Buyouts are 2/3 of the remaining salary over twice the remaining years, so 3 million of 1 year turns into 1 million for 2 years.  That's why the Kaberle buyout give us a 766k cap hit.

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Obviously no one will trade for him and no one will take him on waivers, even though that would be great.  Rod won't retire, why walk away from a guaranteed 3 million?  The only situation where Rod won't be on the team next year would be a buyout.  We actually won't have the full cap hit, it would be the same as the salary as what we owe him; 1 million over the next two years.  Buyouts are 2/3 of the remaining salary over twice the remaining years, so 3 million of 1 year turns into 1 million for 2 years.  That's why the Kaberle buyout give us a 766k cap hit.
Why would a player walk away from 3 million dollar?  Because it would be an honorable thing to do.  Especially for a player with Rod's resume who has performed at the bottom of the league for two years in a row.  Rod is absolutely an honorable man and I could easily see him retiring IF he believes he can't do it anymore.

I am pretty sure you are incorrect about the affect of the cap hit if a buyout were to occur for Rod.  Someone please validate this but you are correct in your assessment with how buy-outs work in general but it does not apply to Rod.  You cannot compare his situation to Kaberle's because of their age.  Rod was over 35 when he signed this contract therefore, the cap hit will remain in it's entirety until the end of the contract whether he retires or is bought out.  There is no way to get out of it (other than the trade or waivers which is very doubtful).

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


Ryan_4_Canes']Obviously no one will trade for him and no one will take him on waivers, even though that would be great.  Rod won't retire, why walk away from a guaranteed 3 million?  The only situation where Rod won't be on the team next year would be a buyout.  We actually won't have the full cap hit, it would be the same as the salary as what we owe him; 1 million over the next two years.  Buyouts are 2/3 of the remaining salary over twice the remaining years, so 3 million of 1 year turns into 1 million for 2 years.  That's why the Kaberle buyout give us a 766k cap hit.

Why would a player walk away from 3 million dollar?  Because it would be an honorable thing to do.  Especially for a player with Rod's resume who has performed at the bottom of the league for two years in a row.  Rod is absolutely an honorable man and I could easily see him retiring IF he believes he can't do it anymore.

Rod hasn't been able to do it anymore for at least 2 seasons, and hasn't seemed to believe it yet.

I actually do think that the press box game and the 4th line low minutes is sending him the message, and maybe he's starting to get it, maybe. This year is toast and losing is actually good in a way so, whatever, but there is simply no way that Brind'Amour can be on the ice in any capacity next year. No way. If Rod doesn't realize it himself by the end of the season, JR will need to realize it for him. If this debacle bleeds into next year it will become an unmitigated "empty arena team threatening to move" disaster.

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Rod hasn't been able to do it anymore for at least 2 seasons, and hasn't seemed to believe it yet.

I actually do think that the press box game and the 4th line low minutes is sending him the message, and maybe he's starting to get it, maybe. This year is toast and losing is actually good in a way so, whatever, but there is simply no way that Brind'Amour can be on the ice in any capacity next year. No way. If Rod doesn't realize it himself by the end of the season, JR will need to realize it for him. If this debacle bleeds into next year it will become an unmitigated "empty arena team threatening to move" disaster.

None of us knows what is going on in Rod's head. 

Last year he was coming off a devastating injury.  Most players don't tear it up immediately after returning from that type of injury - it takes a while to get it back.  I would not expect a player with Rod's character and work ethic to give up so easily.   Rod DID pick it up at the end of last season and I'm sure he thought he was on his way.  He certainly is not going to be retiring in the middle of this season, we will find out the end of this season.  I would like him to walk away on his own, I cringe when think of a comparison to Andreychuk but I think our org has more class.  My only concern with him "realizing" it on his own is that he may feel like he is not being given a chance to come out of this with only 5 minutes of ice time.  Not that I think he should get more but I can see a player using it as an excuse.  Either way, I think he will be part of that 50% difference.

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


remkin']
Rod hasn't been able to do it anymore for at least 2 seasons, and hasn't seemed to believe it yet.

I actually do think that the press box game and the 4th line low minutes is sending him the message, and maybe he's starting to get it, maybe. This year is toast and losing is actually good in a way so, whatever, but there is simply no way that Brind'Amour can be on the ice in any capacity next year. No way. If Rod doesn't realize it himself by the end of the season, JR will need to realize it for him. If this debacle bleeds into next year it will become an unmitigated "empty arena team threatening to move" disaster.

None of us knows what is going on in Rod's head. 

Last year he was coming off a devastating injury.  Most players don't tear it up immediately after returning from that type of injury - it takes a while to get it back.  I would not expect a player with Rod's character and work ethic to give up so easily.   Rod DID pick it up at the end of last season and I'm sure he thought he was on his way.  He certainly is not going to be retiring in the middle of this season, we will find out the end of this season.  I would like him to walk away on his own, I cringe when think of a comparison to Andreychuk but I think our org has more class.  My only concern with him "realizing" it on his own is that he may feel like he is not being given a chance to come out of this with only 5 minutes of ice time.  Not that I think he should get more but I can see a player using it as an excuse.  Either way, I think he will be part of that 50% difference.

Brind'Amour has had far more time on the top lines to show what he can do than anyone else would have gotten. It has in my opinion led to the result of this season. He has been given far more time than he should have. He actually started to deteriorate before the injury, so it should have been no surprise that he wasn't better after the injury. The 5 minutes of ice time, 4th line and press box duty are part of helping him "realize" it on his own. At some point it is not going to be about making sure that Rod feels like he is getting a chance. He has had an extraordinarily long career. At some point it has to be about the team. Once it is, we will start winning again.

For now, this season has been sacrificed at the feet of the old timers (throw A. Ward in there too), might as well let them play the string out, again, we need the loses. But there should be an explicit agreement: we will give you more minutes this year, but you retire at the end of the year. Let's plan a big Rod Brind'Amour day April 3rd or 8th. Send him off right.

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Per Pierre LeBrun's Blog

Ray Whitney

The Carolina Hurricanes are getting lots of calls on Ray Whitney (UFA July 1). He has a no-trade clause, so GM Jim Rutherford will approach him when the time is right and see if Whitney is interested. Carolina loves this player, so there's also the chance that even if the team moves him, it would still approach Whitney July 1 to try to bring him back. Whitney is a crafty, savvy veteran who has a Cup ring. He's the kind of pickup who could really help a contender, much like how Bill Guerin helped Pittsburgh last season.

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Brind'Amour has had far more time on the top lines to show what he can do than anyone else would have gotten. It has in my opinion led to the result of this season. He has been given far more time than he should have. He actually started to deteriorate before the injury, so it should have been no surprise that he wasn't better after the injury. The 5 minutes of ice time, 4th line and press box duty are part of helping him "realize" it on his own. At some point it is not going to be about making sure that Rod feels like he is getting a chance. He has had an extraordinarily long career. At some point it has to be about the team. Once it is, we will start winning again.

For now, this season has been sacrificed at the feet of the old timers (throw A. Ward in there too), might as well let them play the string out, again, we need the loses. But there should be an explicit agreement: we will give you more minutes this year, but you retire at the end of the year. Let's plan a big Rod Brind'Amour day April 3rd or 8th. Send him off right.

I think it is much easier for us fans sitting in the seats watching  make these assessments than it is for a veteran of Rod's caliber to do it.  These guys have a lot of pride.  While you think he should be getting the signals, I can easily see him, or any player, having a hard time admitting it to himself.  My point is not about what he should and should not be getting in ice time, my point it is from his perspective.  I guess being stubborn myself I can relate.  John Forslund even mentioned the "not being given a chance to come out of it" on the aftermath Friday night.  If he is thinking it, it is quite possible that Rod is thinking it too.

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When players outperform their contract, they don't get a retroactive raise.  The honor involved from both sides is Honoring the contract.  Don't hold out, don't go to russia, don't demand a trade, don't throw fits about your role in public, stay in shape, try your best.  Trying to tie the players honor to the financial side of things when the primary goal of the owner is to make money is unfair.

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When players outperform their contract, they don't get a retroactive raise.  The honor involved from both sides is Honoring the contract.  Don't hold out, don't go to russia, don't demand a trade, don't throw fits about your role in public, stay in shape, try your best.  Trying to tie the players honor to the financial side of things when the primary goal of the owner is to make money is unfair.
I absolutely think that retiring before a contract expires if it is for the betterment of the team is extremely honorable.  There is nothing unfair about it unless you think compliments are unfair.  That is very different from saying it is dishonorable if the player chooses to play it out - that statement was not made or implied. 

If "honor' in regards to contracts was truly a two way street, there would not be a section in the CBA for buy-outs.

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


remkin']

Brind'Amour has had far more time on the top lines to show what he can do than anyone else would have gotten. It has in my opinion led to the result of this season. He has been given far more time than he should have. He actually started to deteriorate before the injury, so it should have been no surprise that he wasn't better after the injury. The 5 minutes of ice time, 4th line and press box duty are part of helping him "realize" it on his own. At some point it is not going to be about making sure that Rod feels like he is getting a chance. He has had an extraordinarily long career. At some point it has to be about the team. Once it is, we will start winning again.

For now, this season has been sacrificed at the feet of the old timers (throw A. Ward in there too), might as well let them play the string out, again, we need the loses. But there should be an explicit agreement: we will give you more minutes this year, but you retire at the end of the year. Let's plan a big Rod Brind'Amour day April 3rd or 8th. Send him off right.

I think it is much easier for us fans sitting in the seats watching  make these assessments than it is for a veteran of Rod's caliber to do it.  These guys have a lot of pride.  While you think he should be getting the signals, I can easily see him, or any player, having a hard time admitting it to himself.  My point is not about what he should and should not be getting in ice time, my point it is from his perspective.  I guess being stubborn myself I can relate.  John Forslund even mentioned the "not being given a chance to come out of it" on the aftermath Friday night.  If he is thinking it, it is quite possible that Rod is thinking it too.

IMO I think Brindy has been given every opportunity to "come out of it".  I want to remember Brindy as a Cane who was a key part of our success. Part of the BBC line, Our first Cup final, Our Stanley Cup and even part of last years run to the ECF. If the injury hadn't happened, who knows it might of been different. But now he is in danger of becoming a memory tarnished by a man who hung on to long. A player who put self ahead of the team. A player who management, the team and fans might not forgive if it goes on another year.

I hope he can regain a little of his old form and go out on a high note. But this isn't his team anymore and it is time to move on.

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[quote name='OBXer wrote:


Faceoff-ch1 wrote:

remkin']Brind'Amour has had far more time on the top lines to show what he can do than anyone else would have gotten. It has in my opinion led to the result of this season. He has been given far more time than he should have. He actually started to deteriorate before the injury, so it should have been no surprise that he wasn't better after the injury. The 5 minutes of ice time, 4th line and press box duty are part of helping him "realize" it on his own. At some point it is not going to be about making sure that Rod feels like he is getting a chance. He has had an extraordinarily long career. At some point it has to be about the team. Once it is, we will start winning again.

For now, this season has been sacrificed at the feet of the old timers (throw A. Ward in there too), might as well let them play the string out, again, we need the loses. But there should be an explicit agreement: we will give you more minutes this year, but you retire at the end of the year. Let's plan a big Rod Brind'Amour day April 3rd or 8th. Send him off right.

I think it is much easier for us fans sitting in the seats watching  make these assessments than it is for a veteran of Rod's caliber to do it.  These guys have a lot of pride.  While you think he should be getting the signals, I can easily see him, or any player, having a hard time admitting it to himself.  My point is not about what he should and should not be getting in ice time, my point it is from his perspective.  I guess being stubborn myself I can relate.  John Forslund even mentioned the "not being given a chance to come out of it" on the aftermath Friday night.  If he is thinking it, it is quite possible that Rod is thinking it too.

IMO I think Brindy has been given every opportunity to "come out of it".  I want to remember Brindy as a Cane who was a key part of our success. Part of the BBC line, Our first Cup final, Our Stanley Cup and even part of last years run to the ECF. If the injury hadn't happened, who knows it might of been different. But now he is in danger of becoming a memory tarnished by a man who hung on to long. A player who put self ahead of the team. A player who management, the team and fans might not forgive if it goes on another year.

I hope he can regain a little of his old form and go out on a high note. But this isn't his team anymore and it is time to move on.

I agree with this. I think that there is little doubt that the part in bold would indeed happen if this were allowed to go into next year. In fact, the immediate problem would be what if we were a .500 team with an eye on the playoffs this year? In that case a move would have to be made now.

In the end I think Rod will see what everyone else sees and retire before or at the end of this year. There will be a proper farewell at the end of the year.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


OBXer wrote:

Faceoff-ch1']I think it is much easier for us fans sitting in the seats watching  make these assessments than it is for a veteran of Rod's caliber to do it.  These guys have a lot of pride.  While you think he should be getting the signals, I can easily see him, or any player, having a hard time admitting it to himself.  My point is not about what he should and should not be getting in ice time, my point it is from his perspective.  I guess being stubborn myself I can relate.  John Forslund even mentioned the "not being given a chance to come out of it" on the aftermath Friday night.  If he is thinking it, it is quite possible that Rod is thinking it too.

IMO I think Brindy has been given every opportunity to "come out of it".  I want to remember Brindy as a Cane who was a key part of our success. Part of the BBC line, Our first Cup final, Our Stanley Cup and even part of last years run to the ECF. If the injury hadn't happened, who knows it might of been different. But now he is in danger of becoming a memory tarnished by a man who hung on to long. A player who put self ahead of the team.
A player who management, the team and fans might not forgive if it goes on another year.

I hope he can regain a little of his old form and go out on a high note. But this isn't his team anymore and it is time to move on.

I agree with this. I think that there is little doubt that the part in bold would indeed happen if this were allowed to go into next year. In fact, the immediate problem would be what if we were a .500 team with an eye on the playoffs this year? In that case a move would have to be made now.

In the end I think Rod will see what everyone else sees and retire before or at the end of this year. There will be a proper farewell at the end of the year.

I have to agree, I have not worn my Brindy jersey this year - it's retired with the hopes the player will follow.  With the way our season has gone I can live with him playing out the season - especially if we stay in the basement and manage to get a great draft pick.  My memories of his career would definitely be tainted if this went on for another year. 

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


remkin']Brind'Amour has had far more time on the top lines to show what he can do than anyone else would have gotten. It has in my opinion led to the result of this season. He has been given far more time than he should have. He actually started to deteriorate before the injury, so it should have been no surprise that he wasn't better after the injury. The 5 minutes of ice time, 4th line and press box duty are part of helping him "realize" it on his own. At some point it is not going to be about making sure that Rod feels like he is getting a chance. He has had an extraordinarily long career. At some point it has to be about the team. Once it is, we will start winning again.

For now, this season has been sacrificed at the feet of the old timers (throw A. Ward in there too), might as well let them play the string out, again, we need the loses. But there should be an explicit agreement: we will give you more minutes this year, but you retire at the end of the year. Let's plan a big Rod Brind'Amour day April 3rd or 8th. Send him off right.

I think it is much easier for us fans sitting in the seats watching  make these assessments than it is for a veteran of Rod's caliber to do it.  These guys have a lot of pride.  While you think he should be getting the signals, I can easily see him, or any player, having a hard time admitting it to himself.  My point is not about what he should and should not be getting in ice time, my point it is from his perspective.  I guess being stubborn myself I can relate.  John Forslund even mentioned the "not being given a chance to come out of it" on the aftermath Friday night.  If he is thinking it, it is quite possible that Rod is thinking it too.

You use "devastating" injury as his reason for struggling the past 2 seasons. I don't believe you were actually paying attention to his efforts on the ice before his injury occurred. Rod was struggling way before the injury. There are a LOT of players who have had the very same injury as Rod and came back successful. Rod was slow before the injury. If you look at his numbers the year of the injury and compare them with Cullen who was injured as well. You will find that Cullen out performed Brindy with half the time on ice along with a lot of other players being held back.

I admire your loyalty but its time to face reality. Rod has been bringing this team down for 3 seasons. He may have pride but the only thing Brindy must be thinking....is how can he get more opportunity to increase his value as a possible trade.  Forslund was probably thinking the same thing when he made his comment.

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You use "devastating" injury as his reason for struggling the past 2 seasons.I don't believe you were actually paying attention to his efforts onthe ice before his injury occurred. Rod was struggling way before theinjury. There are a LOT of players who have had the very same injury asRod and came back successful. Rod was slow before the injury. If youlook at his numbers the year of the injury and compare them with Cullenwho was injured as well. You will find that Cullen out performed Brindywith half the time on ice along with a lot of other players being heldback.

I admire your loyalty but its time to face reality. Rodhas been bringing this team down for 3 seasons. He may have pride butthe only thing Brindy must be thinking....is how can he get moreopportunity to increase his value as a possible trade.  Forslund wasprobably thinking the same thing when he made his comment.

ActuallyI am not.  I am simply providing justification for why I think Rodhimself might not come to the conclusion that he is done and he hasbeen for two years.  I am in no way defending his play with thesecircumstance.   As I said in  my previous post - I wanted him gone asof last year.  But to continue with that reasoning - he did win theSelke just 9 months before the injury.  Yes, he was starting to slowdown in 07 but he had 51 points in 59 games played that year prior tothe injury (Matt Cullen had 49 in the same number of games played).  How many players would do that and think the end isnear?  All I am saying is athletes of this caliber sometimes have ahard time admitting it's time to walk away because they tend to thinkthey can get it back.  Their pride makes it tough, see Brett Favre. 

By the way - how many players have had that injury at Rod's age and come back to great success?  Just curious. 

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Even if I was Brind AMour and at his age. Only scoring 3 goals this year so far. I wouldn't retire even if my team would wanted me too. I would like to keep that 1 million dollars my self.

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[quote name='Faceoff-ch1 wrote:


RedSox-n-Canes']
You use "devastating" injury as his reason for struggling the past 2 seasons.
I don't believe you were actually paying attention to his efforts onthe ice before his injury occurred. Rod was struggling way before theinjury. There are a LOT of players who have had the very same injury asRod and came back successful. Rod was slow before the injury. If youlook at his numbers the year of the injury and compare them with Cullenwho was injured as well. You will find that Cullen out performed Brindywith half the time on ice along with a lot of other players being heldback.

I admire your loyalty but its time to face reality. Rodhas been bringing this team down for 3 seasons. He may have pride butthe only thing Brindy must be thinking....is how can he get moreopportunity to increase his value as a possible trade.  Forslund wasprobably thinking the same thing when he made his comment.

ActuallyI am not.  I am simply providing justification for why I think Rodhimself might not come to the conclusion that he is done and he hasbeen for two years.  I am in no way defending his play with thesecircumstance.   As I said in  my previous post - I wanted him gone asof last year.  But to continue with that reasoning - he did win theSelke just 9 months before the injury.  Yes, he was starting to slowdown in 07 but he had 51 points in 59 games played that year prior tothe injury (Matt Cullen had 49 in the same number of games played).  How many players would do that and think the end isnear?  All I am saying is athletes of this caliber sometimes have ahard time admitting it's time to walk away because they tend to thinkthey can get it back.  Their pride makes it tough, see Brett Favre. 

By the way - how many players have had that injury at Rod's age and come back to great success?  Just curious. I know that you were taking his stance on the situation The year that Cullen and Rod had similar stats if you noticed Rod had 1,324 minutes and 1,576 shifts to Cullen's 995 minutes and 1,240 shifts. That is a big difference in opportunity yet Cullen still produced just as much. My point was that Rod was being given a lot of opportunity and holding other players back. He didn't deserve to be on the 2nd line that year and we proved that when he went down. Our team drastically changed.

You asked how many guys have had that injury at Rod's age? I remember Karl Malone tearing his ACL and MCL. Several NBA stars have had the surgery and recovered successfully late in their careers. This isn't regarding ACL surgery but as far as complicated rotator cuff and elbow surgery tops the list in sports.  Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez, Glavine and Smoltz all had major arm surgery late in their career and came back successfully.  They didn't throw as hard but came back knowing they had to be more consistent and perform in a different role. 

I don't think you can compare Brindy's situation to Farve.  Not even the same caliber of athletes. I think Rod has gone down hill and was given hope by a big contract of opportunity that has proved to be a mistake. 

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In the midst of a terrible year, the guy had a decent game tonight.  But having one decent game does not atone for a +-bottom of the league position as a + -player.  The guy has to know he doesn't fit into the youth movement.  He has to know the horn is about to sound on his career.  He has to know the murmurings from Caniac nation about his play.  Just wish he could hear the pleas from the fans to do the honorable thing and retire.  I do not want my last image of the guy being given a career ending injurying but him lifting the Cup. 

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Even if I was Brind AMour and at his age. Only scoring 3 goals this year so far. I wouldn't retire even if my team would wanted me too. I would like to keep that 1 million dollars my self.
if he doesn't then he gets bought out for less, I don't think he wants his career to end that way.  Not ALL the choices are Brindy's.

If the team chooses to buy out his contract, he won't have a choice in that matter.  Then again he might think he has enough in the tank to play elsewhere for less.

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How many thread and post do we have to have about Brind'Amour? This is like the 4th this year? Give it up.

me or the original poster?

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How many thread and post do we have to have about Brind'Amour? This is like the 4th this year? Give it up.

Mo's been winning too much lately, there needs to be something to complain about. wink.gif

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


ivyleager']How many thread and post do we have to have about Brind'Amour? This is like the 4th this year? Give it up.

Mo's been winning too much lately, there needs to be something to complain about. wink.gif

More like Cam's been stealing games that shoulda been blow outs actually at the own accord of the players. 

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[quote name='legend-1 wrote:


TSA wrote:


ivyleager']How many thread and post do we have to have about Brind'Amour? This is like the 4th this year? Give it up.

Mo's been winning too much lately, there needs to be something to complain about.
wink.gif

More like Cam's been stealing games that shoulda been blow outs actually at the own accord of the players. Nope, that would be too logical.  Its always Mo's fault.  pimp.gif

  

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