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Ray Whitney - LET"S KEEP HIM!!!!

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I think keeping him for the last 7 weeks is a mistake. But in the end it was Ray's decision. I also think JR was holding out for a bit much in return.

There is ZERO reason to have not traded him unless he refused to waive the NTC. The Canes really could have used a high draft pick. As of now, they get ZERO for a UFA.

I'll reserve judgement to see if he signs a year or two renewal at a "home town discount" and retires a Cane. If he does that and is part of the veteran leadership that ushers in and mentors the kids next year and does so at a good price, then I'm OK. If, however, he ends up walking this summer and we get nothing in return, it will significantly color my perception of him, and he's currently among my favorite players. 

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Ultimately I feel the same way. If Jr can re-sign him at a lowered salary for no more than 1 or 2 years....I won't feel so strongly about the "no trade".

If Rutherford gives out any more NTCs after this though....somebody needs to slap him!

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If Rutherford gives out any more NTCs after this though....somebody needs to slap him!

While I agree with this somewhat, sometimes, players earn ntc's in their contracts - like Ray Whitney.  Or if the team really wants a certain player, it's a bargaining chip.  After yesterday, only two Canes have NTC's now I believe - Whitney and Staal (Staal's will kick in July of this year).  Would you be upset if Gleason or Cam Ward has NTC's in their contracts?  I wouldn't.  That being said, not sure why players like Scott Walker and Nik Wallin had them.  I think JR needs to simply be more prudent when granting them.

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The NTC is a part of the negotiating process, same as $ and years. JR has been around long enough to know the ramifications. You can't blame a player for asking for one or for wanting to stick to it. You don't know what they gave up to get it. It can work the other way too. Maybe if Brindy had an NTC he'd have only had a 4 year contract. That would look pretty good right now, wouldn't it?

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The NTC is a part of the negotiating process, same as $ and years. JR has been around long enough to know the ramifications. You can't blame a player for asking for one or for wanting to stick to it. You don't know what they gave up to get it. It can work the other way too. Maybe if Brindy had an NTC he'd have only had a 4 year contract. That would look pretty good right now, wouldn't it?
I've been trying to make that point here for a few years now (at least since the first report of Wallin not wanting to waive his NTC).  It's in lieu of money or years or something.  What does bother me is when it becomes public knowledge that a team has an offer and the player refuses to waive the NTC.  It makes the player look like the bad guy to many when he's just doing what he has every right to do. 

  

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The Canes did not 'fail to resign Whitney'.  This is usually what happens in the trade or get nothing situations we see in florida and atlanta every year.  They try to sign the player, and the player isn't interested.  So they have to trade them or get nothing.  This is not the same situation with a guy who appears to want to play in Carolina.

Also, Ray is not Nic Wallin or Joe Corvo.  If we lose Ray, that's a gaping hole in the lineup.  He's in his late 30's, but he was 23rd in the league in scoring last year, and he's 48th this year.   He's a top line winger you can count on for 70 points.   So jeopardizing keeping him for a 2nd round pick and a prospect doesn't seem as sweet a deal.

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[quote name='super-dave-1 wrote:


JLP']The NTC is a part of the negotiating process, same as $ and years. JR has been around long enough to know the ramifications. You can't blame a player for asking for one or for wanting to stick to it. You don't know what they gave up to get it. It can work the other way too. Maybe if Brindy had an NTC he'd have only had a 4 year contract. That would look pretty good right now, wouldn't it?

I've been trying to make that point here for a few years now (at least since the first report of Wallin not wanting to waive his NTC).  It's in lieu of money or years or something.  What does bother me is when it becomes public knowledge that a team has an offer and the player refuses to waive the NTC.  It makes the player look like the bad guy to many when he's just doing what he has every right to do. 

  This is just in general but this is how I look at things.

If it makes a player look like a bad guy, the person is the one at fault. If you can't look past the sticks and pucks on the ice your not a big fan of the game. Some people dont even try to understand their's a business behind the ice. It's alot of wasted breath to try to change the ideas of people (fans) who only like us when were winning. The real fans on this board have shown through this dismal year for sure. 

When we suck so bad Icefrog can't even find a way to be negative anymore....theres your sign.

  

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I can't wait for a year or 2 from now when Ray is still averaging 20 goals a season and 70+ points for us and all the haters will be eating crow. Some people will be saying then, well we should trade him because he's old and his nickname is the wizard and frankly I hate wizards. Ray will be back next season, bet on it. So for us to get a no name and a 2nd rd pick who will just be sent to the AHL for the next 2 seasons is not a big deal.

We've got younger and have plenty of draft picks to continue that. It would be stupid to trade away our best player from this year because of age or because he's a UFA especially since it's pretty obvious now that Ray wants to stay right here in NC. JR could have got a million 1st rd. picks for him but if Ray didn't want to waive his NTC than that's his right and I can respect that because he has earned that right and some people just look at it as a fan's point of view, well we could have got this and that for him and he could have resigned in the offseason. He's won a cup so it might not always be just about hockey. 

Ray has never beat anyone with his speed or physical play but with his hockey smarts, always has and always will. Take Ray off that 1st line and see if Staalsy and Jussi keep producing like they do, not saying they wouldn't but he's a HUGE part of it, but I forgot he's a UFA so we shoulda traded him.

Plus JR is a business man and know's what he's doing, that's why he's a GM in the NHL and we're on a message board! In my opinion Ray was worth a 1st rd pick if they're really trying to win the cup, look how veterans like Recchi and Weight help us but he also would be in a new system and would have had to get use to the players and coach which could hender his point production. Plus I could see Staalsy telling JR at the end of the season "I want Ray here, make it happen." I would feel different about the situation if Ray was injured all the time (knock on wood) or didn't produce but it's the total opposite. How many other 37 year old's in the NHL average 20+goals a season and a point a game? Bottom line is he's still a Cane and wants to be here, and we should support him.

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Maybe it's just family members.  There really are some people that can't see that Ray's age is going to come into play at some point.  Haters?  Not really; just people who understand how quickly a players skill set can deteriorate with age.  I may be wrong and Ray does have 2 or 3 good years left, but I'd put money on "no".  I love what he brings to the table, but he will be 38 years old by the end of the season.  How many guys are big contributors when they are approaching 40? 

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Maybe it's just family members.  There really are some people that can't see that Ray's age is going to come into play at some point.  Haters?  Not really; just people who understand how quickly a players skill set can deteriorate with age.  I may be wrong and Ray does have 2 or 3 good years left, but I'd put money on "no".  I love what he brings to the table, but he will be 38 years old by the end of the season.  How many guys are big contributors when they are approaching 40? 

I would be Ray's agent in a second! Im sure he makes alot better $ than I do. Of course his age is going to come into play, I don't expect the man to play till he's 100 but it hasn't yet. He could go pointless for the rest of the year or be what he is now for the next 2-3 years, nobody knows! But I do know Im not going to base his production for the next year or so because of the "age group" that he's in. Every man is different and untill he has totally slacked off I still believe he is, and will be a big contributor to our team. Speaking of family members though, I know his wife Brijet is smokin pimp.gif

  

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Someones gotta steer the ship from a veteran standpoint once Brindy is done, Staal may be captain but sometimes you need someone to talk to on the team whose got a few more years under his belt..seen a few more situations. That kind of stuff is invaluable even if Ray fell to 50 points next year.

I think were all shell shocked Brindy went from amazing to not so hot anymore so quick, but Ronnie retired and was still putting up points for us. It really is 50-50.

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The only way you can compare Brindy to Ray is if Whitney was to suffer a serious injuryshock.gif That is what has affected Brindys performance more than his age. We will never know how Brindy would have played had that SERIOUS injury not happened to him...You have to look at performance then injuries past and present then age. All these things add up.Ray is healthy and conditioned barring injury we have no reason to believe that his level of play will drop off drastically just because of his age....The other BIG reason to keep a guy like Raymond is "experience" and "character". JR just traded 1/3 of the team (all for good reasons) to get younger and quicker in order to compete...but you have to have guys in the locker room and on the ice to bridge the gap... who do we want to mentor all the young guns coming up/in to the NHL level that job/role has to be given to the guys in your locker room that have "been there done that" someone has to keep their "big heads" and emotions in check.I for 1 think Brindy and Whitney are the best guys in the league for the job!!! "Everybody LOVES Raymond" he brings character to the team/ice and locker room... Glad and grateful he is still a HURRICANE... I say we wait and give a standing "O" when we watch 17 and 13 take their rightful place in the rafters...Just saying...

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Okay guys, I like Ray as much as the next Caniac but how many more years do you think he has left in the tank?  He's playing at a very high level now and yes, Brindy's drop-off had a lot to do with injury.  The thing is, if Brindy had been 30 when he was injured he may have been able to bounce back. 

Is Ray going to be able to beat Father Time?  What I think makes a ton of sense is to do one year deals.  What I'd fear is the multi year deal with a player approaching 40. If I were in J.R.'s shoes, I'd do one year deals with a NTC in a minute.  If I went beyond a year, the money would go down and the NTC would be off the table.

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Okay guys, I like Ray as much as the next Caniac but how many more years do you think he has left in the tank?  He's playing at a very high level now and yes, Brindy's drop-off had a lot to do with injury.  The thing is, if Brindy had been 30 when he was injured he may have been able to bounce back. 

Is Ray going to be able to beat Father Time?  What I think makes a ton of sense is to do one year deals.  What I'd fear is the multi year deal with a player approaching 40. If I were in J.R.'s shoes, I'd do one year deals with a NTC in a minute.  If I went beyond a year, the money would go down and the NTC would be off the table.

I'm thinking he has two more years, assuming he wants to keep going and can produce at least 50 points. Brindy was slowing down even before the injury, but he still was close to PPG level at the time (51 pts in 59 games), and he had 51 points last year with a strong finish (though with a -23). Not really fair to compare one to the other though. Considering Ray's game - small forward, not physical, playmaker - he has a good chance of being productive for a few more years. And assuming Brindy doesn't return next year, he will be the veteran voice on the team, and one that can still produce on a top line. Not bad when you think about it, even if there is some risk there.

I like your contract suggestions. I am guessing it will end up being a 2 year deal at a bit of a discount with an NTC. But I would do 1 year at his current rate with an NTC in a heartbeat.

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This is my last shot at this since it is done.

This whole Ray Whitney thing was a huge missed opportunity and benefits the Canes not.

It says a lot about the organization and/or the community that Ray really wants to stay here, if that's what happened.

It is possible (and I would argue probable) however, that Ray overplayed his hand. That he was holding out for a two (or even three) year extension, and once it became clear that this was the deal, his value plummeted as no GM was willing to do that. JR saying that the right deal never really came forward is probably couched in the fact that the "right deal" had to include a 2 or 3 year contract extension.

Our fan's boundless optimism is really quite amazing. It's one thing to think we are going to the playoffs this year. But after watching Brind'Amour deteriorate before our very eyes (the picture of superhuman fitness no less, (and those who watched carefully saw the tail off begin BEFORE the knee injury)), to be ok with getting nothing for a guy who is moving directly into that same age range and is UNRESTRICTED in a few weeks, mainly so that he might play one or even 2 more years for us (if we even sign him)? Boundless optimism.

JR was said to have been offered a second round pick and a very solid prospect in exchange for letting Whitney go several weeks from the end of a defunct season, and before unrestricted free agency. That's a lot for 6 weeks of a guy's career. Yet apparently that's what Whitney's refusal cost us. JR knew this was a great deal. The Kings were into it, JR was into it, Ray was not. Sorry if that makes him look bad. He negotiated the right to make that decision and it is fair, but it was Whitney's decision and did not benefit the Canes or the fans.

Whether Ray was holding out for a better contract than anyone was willing to take on, or whether he loves the Canes or the Raleigh area, I don't know. But I am pretty sure we lost a second round pick and a solid prospect for 6 more weeks of Ray Whitney and a chance to battle 29 other teams to resign him. It is hard to see how that benefits the Canes unless we go 14-3 (which including this current streak would be about 23-4) with a team full of minor leaguers and back ups and make the playoffs this year. Even if that happens, we will be a 7 or 8 seed with almost as long odds of getting far into the playoffs with all the trades we've made.

Ray is one of my favorite Canes and so long as we don't sign him to more than one year, I would be happy to see him next year. So far he is beating father time, and as mentioned by others we will need some veteran leadership when Brind'Amour retires at the end of this year (he better). That's what we are left with, and it is not the end of the world. But Ray has one maybe two years left in his career and the odds strongly favor decreasing numbers and defensive liability over that time. This team is in a flat out rebuild. We need young prospects and top round picks to move up the board.

Thus compared to a highly rated prospect and one more second round pick to throw into the mix, keeping a player in the twilight of his career 6 more weeks does not help the Canes. Again, not the end of the world but a big opportunity missed.

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After a day or so to mull it over I still feel the Canes lost an opportunity to get a good prospect and a high draft pick for Ray.  I don't blame Ray.  He negotiated a NTC and he used it to block the deal JR had completed with the Kings.  If you want to blame someone then blame JR for giving the NTC in the first place.

As far as Ray staying, it wouldn't suprise me one bit to see Whitney get a 2-year deal.  I prefer a one-year deal given his age.  But, going forward, we do need some veteran presence in the locker room. It won't hurt my feelings to have Ray around a couple more years.

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Someones gotta steer the ship from a veteran standpoint once Brindy is done, Staal may be captain but sometimes you need someone to talk to on the team whose got a few more years under his belt..seen a few more situations. That kind of stuff is invaluable even if Ray fell to 50 points next year.

I think were all shell shocked Brindy went from amazing to not so hot anymore so quick, but Ronnie retired and was still putting up points for us. It really is 50-50.

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Is it just me or has Whitney been totally useless since the trade deadline. It makes me wonder if some words were exchanged between him and team management after he was unwilling to be moved. I would flip flop him with Boychuk on the fourth line or sit him and bring up Bowman. Two guys who have actual futures with the team as apposed to Whitney.

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Is it just me or has Whitney been totally useless since the trade deadline. It makes me wonder if some words were exchanged between him and team management after he was unwilling to be moved. I would flip flop him with Boychuk on the fourth line or sit him and bring up Bowman. Two guys who have actual futures with the team as apposed to Whitney.

I'm not sure I'd even consider what you're proposing to do. Yes Ray's struggling right now. But guess what? Every player on the team has struggled at one point or another this season. He's not going to be lights-out every game. Let him play where he's at and he'll snap out of it.

Oh and did you see that pass he made in OT against the Pens? Didn't seem so useless then...

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Is it just me or has Whitney been totally useless since the trade deadline. It makes me wonder if some words were exchanged between him and team management after he was unwilling to be moved. I would flip flop him with Boychuk on the fourth line or sit him and bring up Bowman. Two guys who have actual futures with the team as apposed to Whitney.

  

I think there is a difference between "useless" and "struggling". I think we would need to define useless...If useless = not scoring then the only forward that misses that lable lately would be the Jusse... Every member of this team and the whole team at times has been "useless" this season that's why a 1/3 of them have been traded. Let's hope JR has had words  for all of them including the ones who have a future here... GO CANES

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Is it just me or has Whitney been totally useless since the trade deadline.....
I strongly disagree with this.  IMO his game vs the Caps this week was the best effort I've seen from him all season.  He has not plated well in the past 2 Pens and Coyotes), and even struggled to get possession when alone.  Totally useless?  The pass to Cole in the Coyotes game to spring the breakaway was sick!  If you want to find useless, look up Erik Cole.

  

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[quote name='Manwolf wrote:


RonnieFranchise']Is it just me or has Whitney been totally useless since the trade deadline.....

I strongly disagree with this.  IMO his game vs the Caps this week was the best effort I've seen from him all season.  He has not plated well in the past 2 Pens and Coyotes), and even struggled to get possession when alone.  Totally useless?  The pass to Cole in the Coyotes game to spring the breakaway was sick!  If you want to find useless, look up Erik Cole.  Couldn't agree more.  IMO, the worst signing of last year.  And we have him through next season...sigh.  Too many on here go by what Cole did in the past, not the present.  6 goals and only 26 games played.  Not worth the $ we could use elsewhere.  Probably would bring little to nothing back in a trade either.

  

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


Manwolf wrote:

RonnieFranchise']Is it just me or has Whitney been totally useless since the trade deadline.....

I strongly disagree with this.  IMO his game vs the Caps this week was the best effort I've seen from him all season.  He has not plated well in the past 2 Pens and Coyotes), and even struggled to get possession when alone.  Totally useless?  The pass to Cole in the Coyotes game to spring the breakaway was sick! 
If you want to find useless, look up Erik Cole
.  
Couldn't agree more.  IMO, the worst signing of last year.  And we have him through next season...sigh.  Too many on here go by what Cole did in the past, not the present.  6 goals and only 26 games played.  Not worth the $ we could use elsewhere.  Probably would bring little to nothing back in a trade either.

  

I agree with most of what you said.. Except, I bet Cole packaged with a 2nd or 3rd round pick would bring in a pretty darn good solid 2nd pairing shutdown d-man. I know there has to be atleast one GM out there who would be willing to make that trade. Wasn't the Predators shopping Dan Hamhuis this trade deadline...? Just a thought..

But back to Whitney.. I like Whitney.. I do.. and I hope he is here for at least a couple more seasons. However, it kinda sucks to think about what we COULD have had, had he accepted the trade. I believe Tripp mentioned that the Kings offered us a "really good prospect" and a first round pick... Oh well.

  

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