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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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I just returned from out of town and finally was able to listen to the interview.  I didn't read anything into JR's comments that I didn' all ready know or hasn't been stated publicly before. 

I find it very entertaining that folks can take a few comments from an interview and twist it around in their mind that the team has suddenly decided to tank.

Good gawd, the draft hasn't even occurred, the buyout period is still a week away from closing, and we haven't even entered into free agency.  At least give the man some time to put the team together. 

I think some need to step back from the ledge. 

Welcome home coastal. Your voice of reason is welcome.

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UNC, this site is not the only place where Canes hockey is discussed. I stand by my comments.
Yes, I have also seen this issue discussed at other sites. I think the comments on this board have been less

harsh , and less negative than some. 

  

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[quote name='Sutter16 wrote:


remkin']Ok a couple of notes from a guy in denial.

First, JR made a mistake by saying we would be a non-playoff team and we would compete in a few years. 

This isn't what he said.  He said we would be competitive now.  In this league if you are competitive you are not a non-playoff team, they are mutually exclusive terms. The only teams that are clearly not playoff teams are not competitive. You can go too low on payroll and talent. You can put a non-competitive team on the ice. Can't you? How did 2002-2003 turn out?

But hey, maybe I'm misreading the man. The draft is tomorrow. We'll get some good players. Then maybe JR starts to make some moves and maybe it doesn't look so glum. For now it's wait and see. If JR does make some moves I'll be right back on his bandwagon.

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While it is eklund, I saw this on his site early this morning.

"The Hurricanes and Predators are talking a deal that could potentially "reshape each team for the next few years."

Take away who the source was and the fact that it may not be credible, who do you think he could be talking about?

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While it is eklund, I saw this on his site early this morning.

"The Hurricanes and Predators are talking a deal that could potentially "reshape each team for the next few years."

Take away who the source was and the fact that it may not be credible, who do you think he could be talking about?
Nashville is loaded with D prospects, and we are loaded with F prospects. That type of trade would help out both teams. Each team could even throw in a couple of veterans for a canes salary dump. Nashville needs to add salary just to get to the salary cap floor.

But it is EK so I'll take it with a huge grain of salt.alien.gif

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Its going to be nice in the next couple of years to have some flexibility with the cap, this way when our young players are coming into their own we can add a few free agents. Seems like we're rebuilding....who knew. Anyway, glad the draft is tonight.

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For gosh sakes REM, Philly made it in on a shootout. Using your logic suggests the Rangers are non-competitive.
That's exactly what I'm getting at. There were probably only 5-6 teams out of 30 that had no realistic chance at the playoffs last year, and all but two had a chance for most of the year. Those were the only "non-playoff" teams. Thus to say that we will be a non-playoff team puts us at the very bottom of the league. Is that really what JR meant to say? 

"Competitive" is a slippery word. JR and coaches always talk about "compete" like it means "effort". "I liked our compete level tonight" usually means the guys fought hard. Thus, one could interpret a "competitive, non-playoff team" to mean a bunch of young guys and subprime veterans who are playing very hard, but lack the ability to win. 

Now my guess is that JR is trying to lower expectations. And that what he is really saying is that we aren't going to be Pittsburgh or Chicago any time soon. I'd have preferred if he'd have said "it is unlikely that our young somewhat rebuilding team will be an elite team for a while, but they will play hard and fight hard to make the playoffs". That's the kind of thing JR usually says.

Yes, the team needs to make a profit, but putting out a bad product and then advertising that it's being done cheaply is not necessarily a great business model in a business that needs fans and STH who have already put money down for revenue.

But hey, with the draft tonight, and rumors of a trade out there, moves may start to happen, and if they do, I'll put these comments away. All I'm saying is that now, if the team doesn't make any moves and puts a substandard product out there and loses, it will be much worse from a fan's perspective than last year, when there was never a doubt that JR and PK were doing what they thought would lead to wins. 

Even Ek's rumors that we might be making a big trade makes me forget the "non-playoff" comment. Making a substantial move would erase it.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


coastal_caniac']For gosh sakes REM, Philly made it in on a shootout. Using your logic suggests the Rangers are non-competitive.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. There were probably only 5-6 teams out of 30 that had no realistic chance at the playoffs last year, and all but two had a chance for most of the year. Those were the only "non-playoff" teams. Thus to say that we will be a non-playoff team puts us at the very bottom of the league. Is that really what JR meant to say? 

"Competitive" is a slippery word. JR and coaches always talk about "compete" like it means "effort". "I liked our compete level tonight" usually means the guys fought hard. Thus, one could interpret a "competitive, non-playoff team" to mean a bunch of young guys and subprime veterans who are playing very hard, but lack the ability to win. 

Now my guess is that JR is trying to lower expectations. And that what he is really saying is that we aren't going to be Pittsburgh or Chicago any time soon. I'd have preferred if he'd have said "it is unlikely that our young somewhat rebuilding team will be an elite team for a while, but they will play hard and fight hard to make the playoffs". That's the kind of thing JR usually says.

Yes, the team needs to make a profit, but putting out a bad product and then advertising that it's being done cheaply is not necessarily a great business model in a business that needs fans and STH who have already put money down for revenue.

But hey, with the draft tonight, and rumors of a trade out there, moves may start to happen, and if they do, I'll put these comments away. All I'm saying is that now, if the team doesn't make any moves and puts a substandard product out there and loses, it will be much worse from a fan's perspective than last year, when there was never a doubt that JR and PK were doing what they thought would lead to wins. 

Even Ek's rumors that we might be making a big trade makes me forget the "non-playoff" comment. Making a substantial move would erase it.

I'm glad to see you've stepped back off the ledge, if not for just a little while.  

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Well any more non playoff talk would put me back on the ledge. No significant moves would have me peering down. If we then start losing like last year....look out below!

On an aside here, our first 9 games back in the US are absolutely BRUTAL. This team could be stocked and go 2-7 over that stretch. So, if the team goes cheap, then had a bad opening...

But that's the glass half empty side.

JR has the pitcher and can fill the glass with a single pour.

Can't think of any more bad analogies. For now, I can't wait for tonight!

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Even 2-7 is an improvement over our road losing streak and 13 game losing streak in the beginning of the year.

No kidding!

I'm hoping that all this talk from JR, fans and NHL watchers puts a fire in the belly of the team assembled mid September.  They have two choices: believe it and fold, or prove everyone wrong.

Contrast that with last year where everyone was high on expectations, even the experts.  The guys may have believed the hype too much, and by the time they turned it around to prove it, it was too late.

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Even 2-7 is an improvement over our road losing streak and 13 game losing streak in the beginning of the year.

True, but that's with a stocked team. A bad team could go 0-9... is my point...sort of.

Anyway, on to the draft!

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My point is and always has been you never know it's useless being so caught up and shedding tears this early in the offseason. We could have an all-star team and suck or a 20 year old team and win some games like Phoenix. Getting so caught up with quotes and trades and this that and the other is just so pointless. Ride the storm because it is and always will be what it is. My fear is Mo isn't that good of a coach to make a team of 20 year olds play like a team of vets. I just don't believe in the man like others do but that's ok because I can't change that.

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Well I will agree that at this point it is just talk. My reaction was to the words, but also to the scenario that I envision if the words are enacted. Of course it's all speculation and opinion. But then what would these boards be without that?

Right now though, I am excited about this draft and hope is recharging that JR may surprise with a trade or pick up we didn't see coming and it will all look ok again.

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I hope there are some trades today, for the fact that it could land us some better picks and/or some players and the fact that trades are exciting but chip just tweeted this:

"Jim Rutherford said it's unlikely Canes will acquire another first-round pick or make any other draft-day move:"

Hopefully its just positioning or something comes through.

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I hope there are some trades today, for the fact that it could land us some better picks and/or some players and the fact that trades are exciting but chip just tweeted this:

"Jim Rutherford said it's unlikely Canes will acquire another first-round pick or make any other draft-day move:"

Hopefully its just positioning or something comes through.

Ugh. That sounds horribly boring.

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[quote name='witchking-ch1 wrote:


KrazyCane']I hope there are some trades today, for the fact that it could land us some better picks and/or some players and the fact that trades are exciting but chip just tweeted this:

"Jim Rutherford said it's unlikely Canes will acquire another first-round pick or make any other draft-day move:"

Hopefully its just positioning or something comes through.

Ugh. That sounds horribly boring.

It does, but boring is sometimes best.  If JR does it right, the overall draft portfolio from this year could be substantial -- just not in 2010 or 2011.

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So unless something changes in free agency, our team is looking like there will be open competition for at least 3 forward spots and 1 or 2 D spots.

I see the lines as follows:

LaRose - Staal - Jokinen (also known as The Budget Man's special). Does any other team in the league have 2 1st line wingers making less than $2M?

? - Sutter - Cole

? - Ruutu - ?

KStop - Dwyer - Rod

The ?'s are the spots open for competition/rotation. Boychuk, Skinner, Osala, Bowman, Tlusty, Goertzen, Terry. The assumption is that Sammy gets bought out. Now, if someone like Dalpe really shines and can win the 3rd line center, then Ruutu moves up to winger on Sutter's line and Cole moves down to 3rd. But basically you're looking at 7 or 8 guys competing for about 3 spots on the lines. When 2011 rolls around we'll have to see if we're keeping LaRose, Juice and/or Cole, as all three are playing in the final year of their contracts.

D is a mess.

Pitkanen/Gleason/McBain/Babchuk/Picard/Harrison/Borer/Carson/Rodney

While Pitkanen/Gleason would make a great 1st pairing, the problem is I'm not sure what you do behind them. I think you have to split Pitkanen (1st pairing) and Gleason (2nd pairing) because of the weakness of the other guys. Does Babchuk go with Pitkanen and McBain with Gleason? Then the 3rd pairing is open for competition in training camp? I can't help but think Carson has earned at least a roster spot. Just not sure how these all pair up.

Overall, I think we have enough offensive potential to be competitive, but I'm definitely concerned that Staal is really the only consistent scorer of our top 9. The rest of those guys just haven't proven that they can score consistently. The Juice had 30, but was that a fluke? LaRose scored 19 two years ago, but was that a fluke? Hopefully Sutter's campaign was just the beginning of a great career, but will he have a sophomore slump? Lots of questions on where we get the scoring out of this roster.

On D I think we're in trouble. I think we have a lot of guys but I'm not sure they pair up well. I would think we'd love to sign and trade Babchuk, but like Sammy/Cole, who would want him?

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I see the lines as follows:

LaRose - Staal - Jokinen (also known as The Budget Man's special). Does any other team in the league have 2 1st line wingers making less than $2M?

? - Sutter - Cole

? - Ruutu - ?

KStop - Dwyer - Rod

The ?'s are the spots open for competition/rotation. Boychuk, Skinner, Osala, Bowman, Tlusty, Goertzen, Terry. The assumption is that Sammy gets bought out. Now, if someone like Dalpe really shines and can win the 3rd line center, then Ruutu moves up to winger on Sutter's line and Cole moves down to 3rd. But basically you're looking at 7 or 8 guys competing for about 3 spots on the lines. When 2011 rolls around we'll have to see if we're keeping LaRose, Juice and/or Cole, as all three are playing in the final year of their contracts.

D is a mess.

Pitkanen/Gleason/McBain/Babchuk/Picard/Harrison/Borer/Carson/Rodney

While Pitkanen/Gleason would make a great 1st pairing, the problem is I'm not sure what you do behind them. I think you have to split Pitkanen (1st pairing) and Gleason (2nd pairing) because of the weakness of the other guys. Does Babchuk go with Pitkanen and McBain with Gleason? Then the 3rd pairing is open for competition in training camp? I can't help but think Carson has earned at least a roster spot. Just not sure how these all pair up.

 

Your top 9 points out the problem. That is horrid. That team will not win many games. Just add Cullen, that slides Ruutu up to the top line and everybody shifts up and it isn't quite as ugly. You also have Sammy gone which is fine, but all the more reason we ought to be able to legitimately fill the 3rd line center role rather than have everyone compete for it, or slide Ruutu down.

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Cullen is not coming. Stop bringing it up.

Sorry, didn't realize you were in charge. I will, of course, obey you at once.

By the way, doesn't have to be Cullen. But if you're good with Ryan or Ruutu there I'd like to know why, but then again, not enough to want to hear from you again.

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