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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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As much as I like Pitkanen, our defense looks more like an offense. McBain, Babchuck, and Pitkanen are lethal at the point...our only developed stay at home dman is gleason...and he can't be on the ice all the time. I think if a trade for Staal's rights or an offer sheet would help shore up our defense.

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If Joni is not traded, The Canes Will be in the same situation as they were with Whitney. He will be able to get more on the open market than JR will offer. It looks like our options are, keep him for what looks like a rebuilding season and let him walk, or trade him while we can still get something for the future.

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Explain how trading him now, is a smarter choice than waiting till the trade deadline? And then I will explain why Rutherford won't even consider your idea....

an injury.

  

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Whitney had a No-Trade-Clause and had JR by the short and curlies in that situation. Pitkanen does not. If Jimmy thinks hthe price for Pitkanen will be way out of his budget, he will trade Pits at the deadline....no doubt about it. There's no similarities in those two scenarios in my opinion. But to trade Pitkanen NOW makes no sense when the Canes defense looks like it couldn't beat it's way out of a wet paper bag as it stands now. I'd like to see them have a fighting chance this season. The SE division is going to be TOUGH this year. Tampa and Atlanta have gotten MUCH better, at least on paper. We'll need Pits...for all 27 minutes a night.

But it's become more than apparent over the past year, that a few people here hate Pitkanen. That's fine, I have players I'm not fond of either. But I try to refrain from suggesting silly trades JUST to get rid of someone I don't like. There are times where no player frustrates me more than Staal...but I wouldn't trade him for Oli Jokinen just to get rid of him! wink.gif

Mein Gott!! Dass ist exactly what the Canes would need right now!! wink.gif  Bring in the Great Pumpkin Head OJ!! That way we can make sure that we draft first next year. Not to mention his negative effect on the team , cancer is his name . Hey this is starting to sound really good laugh.gif Wonder what Calgary would want for him ? I´m not sure Staal alone would be enough.  Maybe if we add Pitkänen and Ward there , we might have a deal !! YES!!! This i like!   

  

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[quote name='Manwolf wrote:


TheBigKahuna']Explain how trading him now, is a smarter choice than waiting till the trade deadline? And then I will explain why Rutherford won't even consider your idea....

an injury.

  Then JR should trade the entire team right now, because I will bet you anything, somebody on this team gets hurt between now and March. So lets avoid the trouble and risk and trade all of them before they have a chance to get hurt! eyes.gif

You don't trade every future UFA you have because they MIGHT get injured. The absurdity around here is crazy deep! You don't trade your best players because a few fans think they stink. Rutherford struck gold when he got Pitkanen for Cole. Pitkanen was THE EXACT type of defensemen Jimmy was looking for, and hoping he'd find. The ONLY way Jimmy would consider trading Pitkanen right now, is if someone offered up a few VERY promising prospects or former 1st rounders. The asking price would be sky high. If Pitkanen has a similar season to last year, Jimmy should have a pretty good idea by March if he can afford to keep him or not. If not, he'll try to trade him. But if you think JR is unhappy with Pitkanen because you think he's a lazy skater, or uninspired player....you're WAY off base. JR is not even remotely close to being on the same page.

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[quote name='TheBigKahuna wrote:


Manwolf wrote:

TheBigKahuna']Explain how trading him now, is a smarter choice than waiting till the trade deadline? And then I will explain why Rutherford won't even consider your idea....

an injury.

  
......But if you think JR is unhappy with Pitkanen because you think he's a lazy skater, or uninspired player....you're WAY off base. JR is not even remotely close to being on the same page.

Whoa boy, you've gone too far.  Don't put words in old Manwolf's mouth.  You can read this forum from inception to today and find no such thing as you imply.  You are entitled to an opinion about my views, but are not entitled to fabricate them.

You'll find in this thread that I believe Joni is a unique talent and has excellent value.  I also believe it was JR who said there was interest in Joni by many clubs prior to last year's deadline (though I can't find the quote, but do believe he said it).  My interpretation of that interest is that Joni has significant value - whether I like his game or not.  I'd trade any player if I can get what I consider better value, including Joni Pitkanen.  Purely business considerations.

IMO a trade for Marc Staal makes sense.  On that we can disagree.  Glad to partake in random "off season talk" as intended here.

  

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[quote name='Manwolf wrote:


TheBigKahuna wrote:

Manwolf']

an injury.

  

......But if
you
think JR is unhappy with Pitkanen because
you
think he's a lazy skater, or uninspired player....
you're
WAY off base. JR is not even remotely close to being on the same page.

Whoa boy, you've gone too far.  Don't put words in old Manwolf's mouth.  You can read this forum from inception to today and find no such thing as you imply.  You are entitled to an opinion about my views, but are not entitled to fabricate them.

You'll find in this thread that I believe Joni is a unique talent and has excellent value.  I also believe it was JR who said there was interest in Joni by many clubs prior to last year's deadline (though I can't find the quote, but do believe he said it).  My interpretation of that interest is that Joni has significant value - whether I like his game or not.  I'd trade any player if I can get what I consider better value, including Joni Pitkanen.  Purely business considerations.

IMO a trade for Marc Staal makes sense.  On that we can disagree.  Glad to partake in random "off season talk" as intended here.

  That wasn't directed just at you. It's for those who hate Pitkanen for one reason or another. There are a few people on this forum who hate the guy, and have begged for him to be traded for a bag of pucks for a year now. Always for reasons that they can't back up with stats or facts. I have no doubt that one more decent season out of Pits, and his FA market value will be sky high. Likely, hihgh enough that Rutherford has to make a tough decision. Keep him as a franchise defense cornerstone, or trade him for young assets. I'm fully aware that he's not Pronger or Phaneuf, but he's as good as the Canes ahve had in years. But those who keep saying he sucks and JR should trade him for a stiff corpse....I can only shake my head in disbelief.

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Well I am for one a Pitkanen fan and am not in favor of Staal for Pits. I would enjoy to see Marc Staal on this team but I dont think it is realistic and I dont believe using Joni as the bait to get him is a step in the right direction. You can call Joni a lazy skater or as I look at it, a very smooth skater. Hes an absolute workhorse and his logging of 30 minutes cannot be replaced, along with his ability to bring the puck end to end.

I agree this team needs that shutdown guy, but I think we all know JR wont be making any big splashes for a while and the most we can hope for is a guy that has potential to be a top 4 shutdown guy but at very least plays solid defence. Similar to a better Jay Harrison, he's gotta be cheap, has to have possibly played in the top 4 before...Hmm Brett Carson anyone?!

I guess JR missed out on him, and I agree that an Andy Sutton type player is what we need, but just not Andy Sutton. Too old. I wish we could have grabbed Meszaros from Tampa, it only cost Philly a second rounder but I guess JR wont be moving draft picks.

I haven't checked but is there any young and relatively cheap defensive minded guys out there? Similar to Carson?

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That wasn't directed just at you. It's for those who hate Pitkanen for one reason or another. There are a few people on this forum who hate the guy, and have begged for him to be traded for a bag of pucks for a year now. Always for reasons that they can't back up with stats or facts. I have no doubt that one more decent season out of Pits, and his FA market value will be sky high. Likely, hihgh enough that Rutherford has to make a tough decision. Keep him as a franchise defense cornerstone, or trade him for young assets. I'm fully aware that he's not Pronger or Phaneuf, but he's as good as the Canes ahve had in years. But those who keep saying he sucks and JR should trade him for a stiff corpse....I can only shake my head in disbelief.

Looks like we mostly agree, but please don't direct anything my way that isn't accurate, even "just" at me. I'm not among any group you've described in this thread.  In fact, I'm a fan of Joni and see him as a unique talent. 

I think Joni is already at the level you describe and, if my memory is correct about what JR said, so do other teams.  I wish I could find the audio or quote from JR, as I think it went on to say he is considered within the top 10 sought after defensemen.

  

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I feel sure we will add a defensemen.  It could very well be Carson.  But, I think we need a guy more like Andy Sutton.  Not an enforcer, but a guy that plays on the nasty edge and is solid in his own end.  Will throw the big hit and block shots. Give a guy like that decent money on a 1-year contract.  El-cheapo will get these young kids hurt.  See the light JR. 

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I would love to have one of these defensemen (Brett Carson or Sami Lepisto) and one of these forwards (Aaron Voros or Cal Clutterbuck) added to the team. I would like to have Sergei Samsonov and Anton Babchuk leave the team. Overall I like the look of the team, we have lost alot of dead weight and there are some very good young players who will be challengeing each other for roster spots. I expect our top three centers to consist of Staal, Jokinen, and Sutter with one of the young guys challengeing for that fourth spot. The D is a little suspect but overall it should be alright, I suspect Borer and one of the guys listed above to make a push for a top four position wth Pitkanen, Gleason, and McBain. Harrison and Sanguinetti should round out the top six.

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I really think the forwards are going to take care of business this year. POSSIBLE Lines......

Line 1 - Jokinnen/ Staal/ Ruutu<---------Staal and Ruutu need to be healthy going into the year

Line 2 - Tlusty/ Sutter/ Larose<----------Larose needs to have the year he had two years ago - For the brief time they were together-Excellent Chemistry

Line 3 - Osala/Mats/Cole<----------Camp will probably decide who fills the center slot here. Dalpe? Probably Matsumoto. Look for Cole to get injured

Line 4 - Samsonov/Dalpe/Samson<---------KStop will probably win out here on right wing but we gotta get Samson in this lineup somewhere?

Boychuk will battle for a position but unless Samsonov is moved I don't see him beating out Tlusty or Osala. But....that's why they have camp....

Bowman comes up when Cole gets injured (Or Larose/Ruutu)

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I know stuff is going to change all the time, so it's kinda hard to look at the roster and depth chart right now, but the current roster on Hurricanes.com lists 5 D men (Babchuk, Gleason, Harrison, McBain, Pitkanen) so we are short one there who will need to come up. They also only list Ward under goaltenders. Has Legace not resigned? I'm sure he will probably stay but is he a UFA? I'm not too concerned if he leaves with Peters waiting in the wings, but just kinda curious where he's going.

The current depth chart listing looks similar to yours Stanley-C and already includes some of our draftees/trades.

Jokinen/Staal/Ruutu

Tlustly/Sutter/LaRose

Boychuk/Dalpe/Cole

Samsonov/Dwyer/Kostopoulous

They have Osala listed as the 5th Left Wing, Matsumoto as the 5th Center they also already have Bobby Sanguinetti in the 3rd D pair with Harrison. I think at this point we have enough depth, that we will have good players on the 3rd and 4th lines and so playing down there is not an insult or a prison sentence. Unless he really impresses, I think Matsumoto will start in Charlotte, but if he's as good as they say he is he will get his chances very soon. Will be interesting to see where it all shakes out after camp.

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I know stuff is going to change all the time, so it's kinda hard to look at the roster and depth chart right now, but the current roster on Hurricanes.com lists 5 D men (Babchuk, Gleason, Harrison, McBain, Pitkanen) so we are short one there who will need to come up. They also only list Ward under goaltenders. Has Legace not resigned? I'm sure he will probably stay but is he a UFA? I'm not too concerned if he leaves with Peters waiting in the wings, but just kinda curious where he's going.

The current depth chart listing looks similar to yours Stanley-C and already includes some of our draftees/trades.

Jokinen/Staal/Ruutu

Tlustly/Sutter/LaRose

Boychuk/Dalpe/Cole

Samsonov/Dwyer/Kostopoulous

They have Osala listed as the 5th Left Wing, Matsumoto as the 5th Center they also already have Bobby Sanguinetti in the 3rd D pair with Harrison. I think at this point we have enough depth, that we will have good players on the 3rd and 4th lines and so playing down there is not an insult or a prison sentence. Unless he really impresses, I think Matsumoto will start in Charlotte, but if he's as good as they say he is he will get his chances very soon. Will be interesting to see where it all shakes out after camp.

If Dalphe is even mostly ready, and if there are no further moves, I think you have our line up as is.

Does that not concern anyone?

So many things will have to happen for that team to be even .500, or they will have to take "chemistry" to it's zenith.

Tlusty, Boychuk, Dalphe have to be ready to not only not look out of place, but actually contribute. Not saying that they can't, but they will have to.

Sutter cannot have a sophmore slump. In some ways he's not a sophmore, so maybe good, but if he is the second line center he must put numbers up again. Similarly Jokinen will have to bring first line productivity again.

LaRose must repeat the only productive year of his career and cannot have a replay of last year.

Ruutu must stay healthy for a prolonged stretch of the year, because barring a major breakthrough we have no depth in the elite scoring department.

Either Cole or Sammy must refind their game and produce actual points.

This doesn't even get into how weak or defense is if no further moves are made.

Once again, there is still time and JR may not be done. But if he is you have laid out probably our best line up. 

If everyone is ready to move their game up that team could suprise, especially if Dalphe is NHL ready. But there's a LOT of ifs up there.

  

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


ericncsu']I know stuff is going to change all the time, so it's kinda hard to look at the roster and depth chart right now, but the current roster on Hurricanes.com lists 5 D men (Babchuk, Gleason, Harrison, McBain, Pitkanen) so we are short one there who will need to come up. They also only list Ward under goaltenders. Has Legace not resigned? I'm sure he will probably stay but is he a UFA? I'm not too concerned if he leaves with Peters waiting in the wings, but just kinda curious where he's going.

The current depth chart listing looks similar to yours Stanley-C and already includes some of our draftees/trades.

Jokinen/Staal/Ruutu

Tlustly/Sutter/LaRose

Boychuk/Dalpe/Cole

Samsonov/Dwyer/Kostopoulous

They have Osala listed as the 5th Left Wing, Matsumoto as the 5th Center they also already have Bobby Sanguinetti in the 3rd D pair with Harrison. I think at this point we have enough depth, that we will have good players on the 3rd and 4th lines and so playing down there is not an insult or a prison sentence. Unless he really impresses, I think Matsumoto will start in Charlotte, but if he's as good as they say he is he will get his chances very soon. Will be interesting to see where it all shakes out after camp.

If Dalphe is even mostly ready, and if there are no further moves, I think you have our line up as is.

Does that not concern anyone?

So many things will have to happen for that team to be even .500, or they will have to take "chemistry" to it's zenith.

Tlusty, Boychuk, Dalphe have to be ready to not only not look out of place, but actually contribute. Not saying that they can't, but they will have to.

Sutter cannot have a sophmore slump. In some ways he's not a sophmore, so maybe good, but if he is the second line center he must put numbers up again. Similarly Jokinen will have to bring first line productivity again.

LaRose must repeat the only productive year of his career and cannot have a replay of last year.

Ruutu must stay healthy for a prolonged stretch of the year, because barring a major breakthrough we have no depth in the elite scoring department.

Either Cole or Sammy must refind their game and produce actual points.

This doesn't even get into how weak or defense is if no further moves are made.

Once again, there is still time and JR may not be done. But if he is you have laid out probably our best line up. 

If everyone is ready to move their game up that team could suprise, especially if Dalphe is NHL ready. But there's a LOT of ifs up there.

  This lineup would concern me. As you point out it is a lineup of if this happens, if that happens, if he plays to his potential and If,If ,If. IMO with this lineup we would need to move Ruutu to center. That would leave a lot of questions on right wing. I think you would then have to move Jokinen to RW or Cole up on the first line.  Unless some of our new additions really step up I'm not sure that would work.  Samsonov is not a 4th line wing. If we expect him to rebound he needs to skate third line. But every time you make a move you reveal another weakness. I think we still make some moves over the summer. They might not be big moves but moves none the less.  I am excited to see how all this plays out.

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Everyone calm down. There is still plenty of summer left. Yes, the team will be young and inexperienced, but that is no reason to throw them under the bus before training camp even starts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last year with our older experience team the Canes were going to compete for the cup....Right?

How did that work out?

The Canes were 10X better after we started playing the young guns!!! It end up costing the Canes a shot at Hall/Seguin. But the kids learned how to win at the NHL level.

Now, I'm not saying that we are going to compete for the cup with this line up, but I don't want to say that we are a lock for the 1st overall pick in the 2011 draft either.

My personal feeling is that we still need a defensive Dman(Andy Sutton Please), and a 3rd line center with NHL experience.

I think the Canes will battle all year for a playoff spot, and if they get in who knows what will happen.

Hang in there Caniacs, and have faith that we are on the right path!

As a Pens fan, who went threw five years of a losing(rebuild) when the Pens went bankrupt...this is no where near as painful. Canes will be competitive faster than the Pens were.

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One thing I haven't seen discussed so far is who is going to play the points on the PP. We weren't all that good last year and with Cullen and Corvo both gone, looks to me like we could be in real trouble this year. Anyone have ideas?

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One thing I haven't seen discussed so far is who is going to play the points on the PP. We weren't all that good last year and with Cullen and Corvo both gone, looks to me like we could be in real trouble this year. Anyone have ideas?
Only a guess but I would suspect Pitkanen/Babchuk or Pitkanen/McBain.  If we put a forward on the point for Pitkanen your guess is as good as mine.

Who is your guess?

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[quote name='OBXer wrote:


Ramp23']One thing I haven't seen discussed so far is who is going to play the points on the PP. We weren't all that good last year and with Cullen and Corvo both gone, looks to me like we could be in real trouble this year. Anyone have ideas?

Only a guess but I would suspect Pitkanen/Babchuk or Pitkanen/McBain.  If we put a forward on the point for Pitkanen your guess is as good as mine.

Who is your guess?

Sutter, maybe?

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Everyone seems to be omitting Skinner from the lineup. I fully expect him to make the team over almost any of the current AHL callups. The biggest weak spot after a top 4 d-man is the 3rd and 4th line centers. Moving Jokinen or Ruutu down really isn't the answer, those two need to be top 6 wingers.

Here's the depth chart as listed by the team:

Jokinen - Staal - Ruutu

Tlusty - Sutter - LaRose

Boychuk - Dalpe - Cole

Samsonov - Dwyer - Kostopoulos

I think the Dalpe 3rd line center position is up for grabs, as is the 2nd line winger spot currently penciled in for Tlusty. I think Tlusty moves down to 3rd or 4th line, Skinner goes in at wing on 2nd line. And I'd be quite shocked if Dwyer isn't on the roster. I see a few people are leaving him out. I think the job of checking line center is his.

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[quote name='Ramp23 wrote:


OBXer wrote:

Ramp23']One thing I haven't seen discussed so far is who is going to play the points on the PP. We weren't all that good last year and with Cullen and Corvo both gone, looks to me like we could be in real trouble this year. Anyone have ideas?

Only a guess but I would suspect Pitkanen/Babchuk or Pitkanen/McBain.  If we put a forward on the point for Pitkanen your guess is as good as mine.

Who is your guess?

Sutter, maybe?

            McBain, no doubt, if we don't acquire anyone else.  smile.gif

  

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As much as I cringe to say it.  Samsonov is the most skilled player on our team.  I see him taking the point maybe Cole if he still has his speed.  I think Samsonov has the skill to play the point and make things happen.

Pitkanen/Mcbain

Babs/Cole or Samsonov

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