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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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if Skinner makes the team he will be exactly like how Eric Staal was his first year.  Prospects need a season to develop at the proffesional level.  An AHL season would be perfect for Skinner to work on his skating and see if he really can keep up.

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Skinner is not old enough to play at the AHL level. He is either comes to the NHL or plays another season in Juniors. He does not turn 20 until May 2012. He doesnt reach his 4 seasons of junior hockey requirement until then as well.

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Here's a thought. The idea of JR trading people in the last year of their deals so he doesn't have trouble signing them got me thinking. We need a 2-3rd line center, but the problem is that we probably only need them for one year.

How about trading with someone who has a good second-third line center in the last year of their contract, that maybe some other rebuilding team might not be sure that they can resign? We take them for the one year. We don't need them after that, so if we can't resign them, no big deal, since Dalpe and Skinner are both probably ready by then?

Don't know if such a player is out there, but it might work.

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Skinner really needs to make the team at camp. I don't see much advantage to him going back to juniors if he's half as good as projected. JR said their draft pick would be NHL ready....I guess he was still referring to Skinner?

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Zac D-a-l-p-e. wink.gif
Let's hope this kid is the real deal. Good college career, then lit up the AHL in a handful of games last year. If he can make the jump to the NHL, he might be a diamond in the rough. And it's very likely that JR wants to see some of these guys in camp before signing a 35 year old vet center. He wouldn't have told Rod that he wasnt going to play this year, if he didn't have high hopes of someone being able to step up.

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In looking at the players we have I am concerned about (in addition to the D) special teams and faceoffs !

And I see us as having little depth in the event of the inevitable injuries we will have. (because I see our

young guys as "setups" to get run over by the more seasoned NHL defensemen, with little protection)

I think their energy and youthful enthusiasm will help and be fun to watch, but I hope I am not being too

pessimistic!

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Zac D-a-l-p-e. wink.gif
If Dalpe is ready to play both ways in the NHL, that will go a long ways. Heck, same with Skinner. 

There's no doubt he has put up the numbers in college and the AHL. It just takes most young scorers a year or two in the NHL to get their game on. If he breaks through this year, that would certainly improve our outlook.

I still think the team could use one more veteran on offense and one on defense. 

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I think Dalpe may surprise.  Actually, I am more concerned with Boychuk.  He looked lost out there last year.  He was weak on the puck and didn't look gifted defensively.  Hopefully he can break out this year and put up the numbers expected of a 14th overall pick.  We need him in Raleigh, not down in Charlotte. 

JR has to add a defensemen to round out our top-4.  I'm not so sure he will be adding another offensive veteran given the logjam we have for the few open spots we have now.  I think what you will see is a parade of players shuffling between Charlotte and Raleigh.

As far as Skinner, let's don't rush the kid.  If he really looks good in camp then let him play the 10 NHL games.  If he blows us away at that point, then fine.  If not, another year in juniors is likely the best move. 

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


ericncsu']I know stuff is going to change all the time, so it's kinda hard to look at the roster and depth chart right now, but the current roster on Hurricanes.com lists 5 D men (Babchuk, Gleason, Harrison, McBain, Pitkanen) so we are short one there who will need to come up. They also only list Ward under goaltenders. Has Legace not resigned? I'm sure he will probably stay but is he a UFA? I'm not too concerned if he leaves with Peters waiting in the wings, but just kinda curious where he's going.

The current depth chart listing looks similar to yours Stanley-C and already includes some of our draftees/trades.

Jokinen/Staal/Ruutu

Tlustly/Sutter/LaRose

Boychuk/Dalpe/Cole

Samsonov/Dwyer/Kostopoulous

They have Osala listed as the 5th Left Wing, Matsumoto as the 5th Center they also already have Bobby Sanguinetti in the 3rd D pair with Harrison. I think at this point we have enough depth, that we will have good players on the 3rd and 4th lines and so playing down there is not an insult or a prison sentence. Unless he really impresses, I think Matsumoto will start in Charlotte, but if he's as good as they say he is he will get his chances very soon. Will be interesting to see where it all shakes out after camp.

If Dalphe is even mostly ready, and if there are no further moves, I think you have our line up as is.

Does that not concern anyone?

So many things will have to happen for that team to be even .500, or they will have to take "chemistry" to it's zenith.

Tlusty, Boychuk, Dalphe have to be ready to not only not look out of place, but actually contribute. Not saying that they can't, but they will have to.

Sutter cannot have a sophmore slump. In some ways he's not a sophmore, so maybe good, but if he is the second line center he must put numbers up again. Similarly Jokinen will have to bring first line productivity again.

LaRose must repeat the only productive year of his career and cannot have a replay of last year.

Ruutu must stay healthy for a prolonged stretch of the year, because barring a major breakthrough we have no depth in the elite scoring department.

Either Cole or Sammy must refind their game and produce actual points.

This doesn't even get into how weak or defense is if no further moves are made.

Once again, there is still time and JR may not be done. But if he is you have laid out probably our best line up. 

If everyone is ready to move their game up that team could suprise, especially if Dalphe is NHL ready. But there's a LOT of ifs up there.

  It concerns me greatly. Between the two extremes - competing for the Cup and competing for the #1 pick in next June's draft - that line up looks markedly more ready to compete for the latter than the former. All of the lines are off by a place, meaning our first line would look nice as a second line, and what's listed as 2nd line would be OK for a third line on a playoff team. Add in a head coach with a proven track record of mediocrity and I think this team's ceiling is .500, likely once again being just good enough to miss out on a franchise player in the draft, but a team nobody in the NHL fears playing and no threat to the playoffs. 

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I think Dalpe may surprise.  Actually, I am more concerned with Boychuk.  He looked lost out there last year.  He was weak on the puck and didn't look gifted defensively.  Hopefully he can break out this year and put up the numbers expected of a 14th overall pick.  We need him in Raleigh, not down in Charlotte. 

JR has to add a defensemen to round out our top-4.  I'm not so sure he will be adding another offensive veteran given the logjam we have for the few open spots we have now.  I think what you will see is a parade of players shuffling between Charlotte and Raleigh.

As far as Skinner, let's don't rush the kid.  If he really looks good in camp then let him play the 10 NHL games.  If he blows us away at that point, then fine.  If not, another year in juniors is likely the best move. 

I think the same think about Dalpe. I think he will be our 3rd line center. Something about that kid tells me he will have a good camp.

I talked to Boychuk at casino night, & he said he learned a lot this year. He said that he was going to try an do what Sutter did last summer. He knows he needs to get bigger & stronger this summer to compete at the NHL level. He seems like a very smart kid.

I think it will be hard for him to put on the weight. It may be another year of him bouncing back & forth between Charlotte & Raleigh. Which would not be the worst thing in the world.

Skinner is an interesting kid. I say give him camp & 9 NHL games. Then send him back to Juniors. I think it would be best to not rush the kid. 10 NHL games & his rookie contract, which he has not signed yet, would kick in. 

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Well, I guess I'm in the significant minority here.  I actually think that if we get more man games out of our core (Staal, Cole, Pitkanen, Ward, Gleason, Ruutu, LaRose and even Samsonov), we will be fielding a pretty competitive bunch....young, but competitive.  By now Staal is enough of a veteran where leadership is expected of him.  Cole has already been referenced by both Boychuk and Bowman as somebody who has been a positive influence on them.  LaRose and Gleason need to step up as well, especially with Gleason mentoring our young d-men. With more actual games played by the "core" (we lost something close to 150 man games just from the group above), we will be competitive.  The gnashing of teeth over our defense is understandable, but, quite frankly, way overdone.  We'll either work together as a unit and be solid, but not spectacular, or we won't in which case Cam will earn his sizeable salary.

A couple of keys will be the ability of Cole, Ruutu, and Samsonov to live up to their capabilities while staying healthy.  Sammy is the lynchpin here....I really hate to see him on the 4th line and hope that he gets some PP time and roles up and down the 2nd and third line too.  But I just don't see it.  More likely, I still think there will be a trade coming of which he will be a part.  The time for the new regime of players is now...that means that there will be a fair share of growing pains (time also for MO and Ronnie to earn their coaching paychecks with the kids!).  It also means that a veteran 3rd line center probably won't happen, nor should it.  These new kids have to get their experience sooner rather than later.

Also, I think that the predictions that have LaRose on the 1st and 2nd line and Tlusty on the 2nd line over sell these guys.  Chad is a great guy, has goal scoring potential, but I want him down on the 3rd line, hustling and making things happen.  I want Tlusty down there as well.  He has always been considered a very good 2-way forward.  He is solid offensively, but is still young, so starting him on the 3rd line makes sense.  Add in Dalpe (who I think will not only win the 3rd line center's job, I feel it's his to lose).  He's fast and is also a very solid defender.  That means that Boychuk and Cole move up to the 2nd line (or even the 1st line w/Staal and the Finns could move down w/Sutter - a line that worked well for a number of games).  But for now, I think we start the season looking something like this:

Jokinen/Staal/Cole

Boychuk/Sutter/Ruutu

Tlusty/Dalpe/LaRose

Dwyer or Samsonov/Matsumoto/K-stop

On defense we are what we are:

Gleason/McBain

Pitkanen/Babchuk

Sanguinetti/? Carson?

Harrison

Yes, I think Carson ends up back in the fold. 

Ultimately, I also expect Boychuk to see some stints down in Charlotte to "work on his game".  Rotating up will be Osala, Bowman, Dodge, and perhaps even Terry.  The wild card is Samson.  If he has a good camp, he will displace either K-stop and/or LaRose which frees them up for a trade (package with Sammy and/or Babchuk perhaps)....or Samson could be made available (his value is at its historic high)....so I know the change is/can be painful, but all is not lost.  We are going to field the most exciting team that we've seen since the Cup run.....it may get ugly, but it will be fun to watch.

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[quote name='TheBigKahuna wrote:


CaniacKidd']

Interesting, has us looking at belanger.

Belanger was a terrible fit the last time he was here. Not going to happen IMO.

As for trading Pitkanen to free up salary to go after Marc Staal? Why? Why do people keeping suggesting getting rid of Pitkanen when our defense is already paper thin? This makes ZERO sense.

The suggestion on Pitkanen came, originally, from me. The reasoning is that Joni is in the final year of his $4.5m contract with us. The obvious question is, "Will we re-sign him or extend him?" If he is looking to go over $5m per season, I'm not sure that we do. So there is a possibility that we trade him for another top 4 d-man. Especially when you consider that we have some depth now with offensive defensemen. Joni is actually a valuable asset, too, as JR mentioned there was a lot of interest in him at the trade deadline.

Will it happen? I agree that trading him hurts our D unless we get someone who is a top pairing in return. I think the idea that we could get M. Staal is an intriguing one, for sure. Certainly the NYR tend to need offense, so having someone like Pits get the puck to Gaborik might light Sather's lamp, so to speak.

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I expect the line up to look something like this. Keep in mind some of the players listed do and have played more than one position. I believe the team has to add a little toughness (Voros) to take some pressure off Gleason. With all these young skill guys there is not any room for Samsonov.

  1. Tlusty - Staal - Cole
  2. Boychuk - Jokinen - Ruutu
  3. Larose - Sutter - Samson
  4. Kostopoulos - Matsumoto - Voros
  5. Bowman - Nash - Dwyer
  6. Osala - Dalpe - Staal
The defense looks a little suspect however I believe these guys compliment each other very well. I remember winning the cup with a defense which did not look much better. We do have too many offensive guys and I think Babchuk has to go. I would love to get Lepisto from Phoenix, he is going to be a good one. J.R. Sign Carson Already.

  1. Pitkanen - Carson
  2. Gleason - McBain
  3. Sanguinetti - Harrison
  4. Lepisto - Borer
The goaltending looks better than it has in years with Peters and Pogge backing up Ward.

  1. Ward
  2. Peters
  3. Pogge
Overall the team looks pretty good considering some of the guys that have moved on. We are well into rebuild mode but I believe we will challange for a playoff birth and we could surprise a few teams. We still have some great players on the team with some young guys ready to shine. We are lacking a little toughness which has to be addressed in order to keep other teams honest.

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[quote name='OBXer wrote:


remkin wrote:

ericncsu']I know stuff is going to change all the time, so it's kinda hard to look at the roster and depth chart right now, but the current roster on Hurricanes.com lists 5 D men (Babchuk, Gleason, Harrison, McBain, Pitkanen) so we are short one there who will need to come up. They also only list Ward under goaltenders. Has Legace not resigned? I'm sure he will probably stay but is he a UFA? I'm not too concerned if he leaves with Peters waiting in the wings, but just kinda curious where he's going.

The current depth chart listing looks similar to yours Stanley-C and already includes some of our draftees/trades.

Jokinen/Staal/Ruutu

Tlustly/Sutter/LaRose

Boychuk/Dalpe/Cole

Samsonov/Dwyer/Kostopoulous

They have Osala listed as the 5th Left Wing, Matsumoto as the 5th Center they also already have Bobby Sanguinetti in the 3rd D pair with Harrison. I think at this point we have enough depth, that we will have good players on the 3rd and 4th lines and so playing down there is not an insult or a prison sentence. Unless he really impresses, I think Matsumoto will start in Charlotte, but if he's as good as they say he is he will get his chances very soon. Will be interesting to see where it all shakes out after camp.

If Dalphe is even mostly ready, and if there are no further moves, I think you have our line up as is.

Does that not concern anyone?

So many things will have to happen for that team to be even .500, or they will have to take "chemistry" to it's zenith.

Tlusty, Boychuk, Dalphe have to be ready to not only not look out of place, but actually contribute. Not saying that they can't, but they will have to.

Sutter cannot have a sophmore slump. In some ways he's not a sophmore, so maybe good, but if he is the second line center he must put numbers up again. Similarly Jokinen will have to bring first line productivity again.

LaRose must repeat the only productive year of his career and cannot have a replay of last year.

Ruutu must stay healthy for a prolonged stretch of the year, because barring a major breakthrough we have no depth in the elite scoring department.

Either Cole or Sammy must refind their game and produce actual points.

This doesn't even get into how weak or defense is if no further moves are made.

Once again, there is still time and JR may not be done. But if he is you have laid out probably our best line up. 

If everyone is ready to move their game up that team could suprise, especially if Dalphe is NHL ready. But there's a LOT of ifs up there.

  
This lineup would concern me. As you point out it is a lineup of if this happens, if that happens, if he plays to his potential and If,If ,If. IMO with this lineup we would need to move Ruutu to center. That would leave a lot of questions on right wing. I think you would then have to move Jokinen to RW or Cole up on the first line.  Unless some of our new additions really step up I'm not sure that would work.  Samsonov is not a 4th line wing. If we expect him to rebound he needs to skate third line. But every time you make a move you reveal another weakness. I think we still make some moves over the summer. They might not be big moves but moves none the less.  I am excited to see how all this plays out.

I believe our 1st line is going to be LaRose - Staal - Jokinen... these guys played together at the end of last season and actually played well together. Don't forget that LaRose finished the season with 11 goals. I'm not saying he's a legit 1st line winger... but he's a "budget" 1st line winger.

Ruutu will either be the muscle on Sutter's line or the 3rd line center, depending on whether Dalpe, Dwyer or Matsumoto is ready to handle 3rd line duties.

As one other put it... "camp will be interesting."

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The gnashing of teeth over our defense is understandable, but, quite frankly, way overdone.  We'll either work together as a unit and be solid, but not spectacular, or we won't in which case Cam will earn his sizeable salary.  

A little suspect?  We need a defense that is above par, not one that just gets by.  I think I'll gnash my teeth some more until we get another top-4 defenseman, thank you please.  It won't break the bank.  If that happens, then we will have something to work with..... and my dental bill will go away.

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


NotOpie'] The gnashing of teeth over our defense is understandable, but, quite frankly, way overdone.  We'll either work together as a unit and be solid, but not spectacular, or we won't in which case Cam will earn his sizeable salary.  

A little suspect?  We need a defense that is above par, not one that just gets by.  I think I'll gnash my teeth some more until we get another top-4 defenseman, thank you please.  It won't break the bank.  If that happens, then we will have something to work with..... and my dental bill will go away.You may get your wish Coastal...Check the link:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=533851

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It will have to be a "Cheap" defenseman....lol......or possibly a trade? (Sammy or Cole) but no one is going to get Cole

I can't believe we would have Cole on the first line....IMO it would be disastrous....maybe....2nd line....maybe

No way does Skinner make the NHL club (except for the 9 games) He is not used to the speed/size/toughness of opposing NHL lineups...at all. This is not Sydney Crosby

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[quote name='rocheccw wrote:


coastal_caniac wrote:

NotOpie']The gnashing of teeth over our defense is understandable, but, quite frankly, way overdone.  We'll either work together as a unit and be solid, but not spectacular, or we won't in which case Cam will earn his sizeable salary.  

A little suspect?  We need a defense that is above par, not one that just gets by.  I think I'll gnash my teeth some more until we get another top-4 defenseman, thank you please.  It won't break the bank.  If that happens, then we will have something to work with..... and my dental bill will go away.
You may get your wish Coastal...Check the link:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=533851

There are two things we’re considering,” said General Manager Jim Rutherford.  “Do we get a top-four defenseman and take some pressure of Jamie McBain in his first full season at the NHL level, or do we leave McBain in the top four and go with someone in our third pairing?  A lot of that decision will depend on who is available.

 Well, if it depends on "who is available" then you better get off your rear end and get someone now.  Quality defensemen (top-4 guys) are getting gobbled up like cheese on crackers.  Anyone who believes it will have to be a cheap signing is nuts.  If that's the case just go get Carson.  I'm not suggesting we should spend 5 million or anything, but somewhere around 2.5-3 million is what it will take.  We all ready have half of that with the non-qualifying situation with Carson and Picard.  Heck, at least give this kind of guy good money for a year if you don't want to be locked into someone.

Go sign another quality top-4 shut down guy who is solid, plays nasty, blocks shots, and can give you some minutes is all I ask.  Then I'll shutup about the defense.

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Here's a thought. The idea of JR trading people in the last year of their deals so he doesn't have trouble signing them got me thinking. We need a 2-3rd line center, but the problem is that we probably only need them for one year.

How about trading with someone who has a good second-third line center in the last year of their contract, that maybe some other rebuilding team might not be sure that they can resign? We take them for the one year. We don't need them after that, so if we can't resign them, no big deal, since Dalpe and Skinner are both probably ready by then?

Don't know if such a player is out there, but it might work.

Not bad...

If you want a 1 year guy, here's a surprise... The Clarkson fan will now suggest Craig Conroy...  I think he is more of a 3rd line/4th  line guy at this point, but a veteran who could fill a role of insurance if none of the propects work out for your 3rd line center this season.

Sign him for 1 year at 1M.  Keep working the propects.  If no injuries force your hand, and a young guy can step in, you don't have to worry about this guy, you just have him ride the pine and let the new blood take over.  You get injuries or you want to ease a guy in, you have this guy for backup.  At the end of the season we part ways.

Fits the cheap model, and what you are really hoping for is for a young guy to crack into the lineup.  But you can't count on it, and you need depth for the inevitable injury issues that crop up.

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I don't have a particular player in mind, but I do think the one-year thing has some merit with any FA acquisition, whether its offense or the d.  Were not trying to make a big splash, we are just trying to get through another year while these kids develop and we shed tons of payroll.  But, to get anybody decent on a one-year deal on a rebuilding team, we gotta offer at least a decent contract. 

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


NotOpie
']The gnashing of teeth over our defense is understandable, but, quite frankly, way overdone.  We'll either work together as a unit and be solid, but not spectacular, or we won't in which case Cam will earn his sizeable salary.  

A little suspect?  We need a defense that is above par, not one that just gets by.  I think I'll gnash my teeth some more until we get another top-4 defenseman, thank you please.  It won't break the bank.  If that happens, then we will have something to work with..... and my dental bill will go away.That's fine, but I find it incredible that there's no expectation that players can and do grow....do you assume that McBain is not going to improve?  Quite frankly, he was pretty solid (sure he made a few mental errors but they were few and far between) in his own end.  Sanguinetti comes with question marks but is a first rounder who was, at one time, one of the best defensive prospects in the Rangers' system....I seem to remember pages and pages of "flaming" about Pitkanen and his "weaknesses".....don't you offer the chance that players may be coming into their own (again, with growing pains, but still Joni is a good example of how different venues, circumstances, coaches, etc. can all lead to positive outcomes....)....we cannot afford a true top 4 guy.  We're going to have to go with youth, a reclamation project, or get talent in a trade (which we may still do).

But I really don't want any "gritty veterans" if its going to end up like the Aaron Ward fiasco....but I'm not getting into that....my point is that at some point in time we have to trust in the young talent and the front office.  We don't have to agree with their strategy, but it does give the guys a chance that many of us have been hoping to see (plus some new faces).  I, for one, think that many of the kids will surprise us, JR still has a move or two up his sleeve, and some of our "younger vets" (Staal, Cole, etc.) will step up their leadership.  This year is going to be exciting....

  

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well just another crazy idea but NJ seems to be the top player for Kovalchuk but need to seriously clear space. (yes I know the source isnt very creditable) Hockeybuzz.com is saying that NJ may have to move some of their better talent to do so. Of course NJ will try to move some of their guys that are just eating space like Zubrus or Clarkson but, I think NJ will just have to eat those. NJ will need to clear almost 6 million in space.

How about trying to get C Parise/Zajak and D Salvador. Parise is a 3.125 salary hit and is a RFA after next season. Zajak is 3.877 salary hit and is signed for 3 more seasons. D Salavador is a more 34 y.o. shutdown guy with a 2.9 mil salary and is signed for 2 seasons.

We could give up a guy like Bowman, Sanguinetti, and something else. I know this is a pipe dream but NJ really wants to get rid of salary and we could add some. And of course we would need to more Cole or Samsonov's salary to be able to add close 6 mil.

Could see

Jokinen-Staal-Larose

Tlusty-Parise-Boychuk

Ruutu-Sutter-Cole/Sammy (will see just as much ice time as the 2nd line)

Checker-Dwyer-Kstop

Pitkanen-Gleason

Salvador-McBain

Babs-Harrison

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well just another crazy idea but NJ seems to be the top player for Kovalchuk but need to seriously clear space. (

How about trying to get C Parise

  

seeing has Parise is one of there few consistent goal scorers,I think they would let Kovalchuck,who didnt do much for them last season,walk,before they would give up Parise,they would probably trade Broduer before they would trade Parise

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