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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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[quote name='NotOpie wrote:


coastal_caniac
wrote:

NotOpie
']The gnashing of teeth over our defense is understandable, but, quite frankly, way overdone.  We'll either work together as a unit and be solid, but not spectacular, or we won't in which case Cam will earn his sizeable salary.  

A little suspect?  We need a defense that is above par, not one that just gets by.  I think I'll gnash my teeth some more until we get another top-4 defenseman, thank you please.  It won't break the bank.  If that happens, then we will have something to work with..... and my dental bill will go away.
That's fine, but I find it incredible that there's no expectation that players can and do grow....do you assume that McBain is not going to improve?  Quite frankly, he was pretty solid (sure he made a few mental errors but they were few and far between) in his own end.  Sanguinetti comes with question marks but is a first rounder who was, at one time, one of the best defensive prospects in the Rangers' system....I seem to remember pages and pages of "flaming" about Pitkanen and his "weaknesses".....don't you offer the chance that players may be coming into their own (again, with growing pains, but still Joni is a good example of how different venues, circumstances, coaches, etc. can all lead to positive outcomes....)....we cannot afford a true top 4 guy.  We're going to have to go with youth, a reclamation project, or get talent in a trade (which we may still do).

But I really don't want any "gritty veterans" if its going to end up like the Aaron Ward fiasco....but I'm not getting into that....my point is that at some point in time we have to trust in the young talent and the front office.  We don't have to agree with their strategy, but it does give the guys a chance that many of us have been hoping to see (plus some new faces).  I, for one, think that many of the kids will surprise us, JR still has a move or two up his sleeve, and some of our "younger vets" (Staal, Cole, etc.) will step up their leadership.  This year is going to be exciting....

  Nopie, sure there is optimism.  But unfortunately, reality kicks in.  If you are happy with our defense as it stands now, great.  I'm not.  Until we shore up our defense I'll continue to comment on it.  We have 2 guys in Gleason and Pitkanen that are truly top-4 guys.  The word is still out on McBain.  Of all the other defenseman, I do think McBain can and will assume a top-4 role at some point in time.  But to ask him to do that now is putting alot of pressure on a guy who only played a limited NHL schedule last year.  I don't want Babchuk in the top-4, Harrison is a bottom pairing guy at best, and Sanguinetti hasn't played one minute for the Canes.  If someone goes down, and they will, our depth includes Rodney and Borer.

I also disagree with your comment that we can't afford a top-4 shut down type defenseman.  It's a real need, and JR said as much in the press release from yesterday that I referenced above (you might want to read it).  It won't break the bank. 

In my opinion, putting 2.5 to 3 mil in a solid, stay-at-home type guy, who hits and blocks shots will give us a defense that can hold its own.  My optimism and hope lies in our offense.  I think we have a good core, and a good group of offensive prospects who can "grow" this season.  All I'm suggesting is we get off the snide and put a solid group of defenders on the ice to mitigate the mistakes that some of these young offenseman will make.  There two-way game is likely a work in progress.

But, like you said, there's always hope in what we have now.  But if we stay with what we have now on defense it could get real ugly real quick.  Might want to take a look at that October schedule again.  Its brutal.

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Coastal, I read JR's comments and have been a "student" of our past history.  I'm not really debating your point and agree that we probably need another real Top 4 defenseman.  My point is that I just don't think its going to happen this year (cause the money isn't really there even if we go to $45 or $46 million in payroll).  I think there's a better chance of Babchuk and Samsonove getting traded for something near a Top 4 guy, but still not a true one.  And yes, then we're stuck with Harrison, a Checker, and probably Carson (who is a very serviceable 5-6 guy).

My point is that we've had no name defenses that have served us well in the past.  Defenses where we really didn't have much beyond a number 4.  But they played well together and our forwards played excellent defense in front of them.  Yes, that's what I'm hoping for. 

I support what PK and JR are doing because the correct and ethical thing to do is for Karmanos to take care of his late partner's estate.  I want him to get a new partner/owner in here who is a hockey person first.  Now perhaps focusing on the "profitability" of the franchise is a mistaken approach...we can debate that ad nauseum too....but I won't.  I just want the "sale" to take place sooner rather than later and let the franchise move forward.  If there's short-term pain, then so be it.  I just don't think the short term pain will be all that bad. 

And yes, I will readily eat crow if we end up a bottom five team....I'm not totally in fantasyland.

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Your free to hope away. smile.gif  Just sayin that a no-name defense is much different than one without a solid top-two pairings.  And lest we not forget, our no-name defenses have also sucked.  That's what got Lavi fired.  Run and gun....blink...in the back of our net.  

I'm sure many are tired of my defensive opinions, so I'll give it a rest ......for now.    

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Your free to hope away. smile.gif  Just sayin that a no-name defense is much different than one without a solid top-two pairings.  And lest we not forget, our no-name defenses have also sucked.  That's what got Lavi fired.  Run and gun....blink...in the back of our net.  

I'm sure many are tired of my defensive opinions, so I'll give it a rest ......for now.    

You are not crazy.  We have the 2nd lowest paid defense in the entire league (Dallas is lower)

Reference:  http://www.nhlnumbers.com...team=CAR&season=1011

Some teams are over 20 million.

What is our style?  Defensive...   Hmmm...

I'm not equating $ spent with guaranteed success, but denial is not just a river in Egypt.  Maybe we are crazy brilliant and can pay half the $ for the same quality.  Then again, maybe not...

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I would be happy to have Corvo.  I think him and Pitkanen could be our go to guys and log abnuch of minutes.  I know it's not what we need.  But as a fan.  I really liked Corvo and I think it could be great for the fan base.  I think he is a good fit here.

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I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing Corv's back in a Canes jersey at all, plus he already knows the system so it wouldn't be like someone else we get in FA having to learn the system, then again I wouldn't mind seeing Pothier back for some veteran presence on the back end.

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So I guess our defense is going to try playing some offense this season? Might make up some of the lost offense, but no idea how we'll manage to keep anything out of our own net.

$2 million and $2.5 million isn't too bad of a price though for him. May leave some upgrade to upgrade elsewhere if JR finds the right fit.

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I guess I'll go ahead and get this out of the way.  WTH?  Nothing against Corvo or anything but this is not what we needed.  Another puck mover?  Tim Gleason will have to police the ice all by himself, every night?  I wouldn't blame him if he said the heck with this when his deal is up.  That's crap.

On another note, now we are forced to play 2 right-handed shots on one of the power play units.  That's assuming our number one unit is Pitkanen and Babs and the other is Corvo and McBain.  Even if you switch that around, one of those units will have two right-handed shots.  Duh.

But to end on a positive note, I do like Corvo and I have to admire the fact that he wants to stay here.  That's a pretty sweet deal JR and he worked out.  Given he's got a two-year deal, that could seal the deal and send Babs packing at the trade deadline.  I know that will make some here happy.  I also like the fact we take some pressure off McBain in his first full season.  Let him play his way up. 

With my moaning and complaining out of the way, the defense certainly looks better than it did an hour ago, particularly on the PP.   I see the pairings this way:

Pitkanen-Babchuk (they played pretty well together back in 09)
Corvo-Gleason
Harrison-McBain

Sanguinetti, Rodney, Borer

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Coastal,

I still think it is a bad signing, and not what the Canes need from a FA defenseman.

Canes needed a defensive Dman...Not another offensive Dman. Corvo is not a shutdown defenseman.

Gleason is our only Defensive Dman. Pit, Corvo, McBain, Babchuk, & Sanguinetti are all offensive Dmen. Harrison is at best a depth D man in the 6th or 7th spot.

JR you went after the wrong type of defenseman!

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well, that was fast.  I should complain more often if it is that simple...

Hey JR... we are one of the only teams with a 7.5M center and no complementary winger...

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well, that was fast.  I should complain more often if it is that simple...

Hey JR... we are one of the only teams with a 7.5M center and no complementary winger...

And now we wait.... wink.gif

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CC I am with ya.  I feel like this will be a terrible signing at the off season when we have a chance to get another D man but Joe's 2.5 mil salary will hinder that.  Or Joe will keep us from re-signing Pits.  

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Its horrible because the value of the signing is horrible. The money amount is okay but we needed something else. Its like buying another sedan when you needed a truck or suv to haul or tow stuff. What does the sedan give you that you didnt already have?

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[quote name=gocanes0506]Its horrible because the value of the signing is horrible. The money amount is okay but we needed something else. Its like buying another sedan when you needed a truck or suv to haul or tow stuff. What does the sedan give you that you didnt already have?

A chance to make one of the already existing sedans you have expendable wink.gif

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So I guess our defense is going to try playing some offense this season? Might make up some of the lost offense, but no idea how we'll manage to keep anything out of our own net.

$2 million and $2.5 million isn't too bad of a price though for him. May leave some upgrade to upgrade elsewhere if JR finds the right fit.

To paraphrase our former goalie who used to wear #1...

The solution is: "Cam Ward and Justin Peters like wall."

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Skilled offensively...YES!...Defensively...Not so much!

Never said it was a horrible sign, just not a good signing. Wrong type of defenseman...Unless another move lands the Canes(Babchuk gets traded) a solid defensive Dman.

But as Coastal & others pointed out the overall D is better now that McBain won't have to be top 4 this year, and Harrison get pushed down the depth chart.

Who knows maybe we couldn't get a good shutdown Dman for around 2-2.5M range.

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I think its okay to question the signing, not the deal, while respecting the player.  At least thats my point of view.  As you all know, I would rather have spent the money on a shut down guy that can take care of some "business".   I hate the fact that Timmy has to shoulder the burden all by himself, every night.  Some help in that department would be great, and remains a need. 

But at the same time, I have always liked Joe.  I remember being at his first home game against the Sens when he blasted home that hatty.  He could have definitely got more money to go somewhere else, but he wanted to be here.  How in the Sam Hill can you not like that?  He will be welcomed back to our locker room with open arms.  I welcome him back.

While the move surprised me (yes I tend to be on the naive side at times), it doesn't mean I don't like it.  He will help the team.  Our powerplay suddenly has some bite, and Joe can play the minutes. 

This doesn't have to be a love-hate thing.   

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So, if the team stays the same, and the cap stays the same... come trade deadline time... if if we're in a position to make the playoffs, we might be able to get a player or two.  Thats the upside...  if we're not in a position to make the playoffs.... are we a team to unload higher-paid players?

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So I have been doing some thinking.  With acquiring Corvo that should make our team very interesting.  Not only do teams have to worry about containing our forwards but now our D as well.  The D might just create alot of opportunities for our younger guys to put some serious points on the board.  For once I am actually excited about this team.  I think it will be a very fun team to watch.  Pit, Corvo, Babs, Mcbain all can put some points on the board.  We could be in for a real surprise this year....

Last pre-season I thought the canes were a cup contender with how they were on paper.  Look what happened.  This year we have a younger faster team.  We lack a scoring presence with the forwards.  But our D from an offensive perspective looks really good!  I am not saying we are a cup contender and who knows what Sang is capable of.  I would like to have Carson take the 6th spot.  I think the guy is exactly what we need IMO.  But I feel this will be a very fun team to watch this season and I can't wait!

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