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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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It would have to be one heck of a deal to trade Pits IMO. The "D" doesn't look half bad now. I think with this top 4 pairing Pits will actually get a little less ice time (not much less) and be all the better for it.  As the season wears on we may reevaluate a trade because of his UFA status after the upcoming season. But not now.

JR also has been true to his plan so far. He said he would shop for a top 4 D-man and did. He now says he will wait until training camp before deciding if he needs to make further moves.  Of course if that deal you can't refuse comes along I expect he will make it. But I don't think that will happen. We probable will try and sign Carson.

Every move made now (unless the mandate changes) means we must shed salary.  I wouldn't rule out a Samsonov trade before the season starts but if he stays I think he jumps back up to the third line and Cole skates or second line. But it appears almost every wing position is up for grabs.

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Ruutu on the third line makes no sense if he is healthy. We have one, maybe two legitimate first liners: Staal and Jokinen. The next name that can be put ont the first line with a straight face is Ruutu. I can see Ruutu on the second line, but thats as low as makes sense.

That third line center looks more and more to be one of the kids getting a huge opportunity, or a late value pick up. But not Ruutu.

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Ruutu on the third line makes no sense if he is healthy. We have one, maybe two legitimate first liners: Staal and Jokinen. The next name that can be put ont the first line with a straight face is Ruutu. I can see Ruutu on the second line, but thats as low as makes sense.

That third line center looks more and more to be one of the kids getting a huge opportunity, or a late value pick up. But not Ruutu.

I agree. If Ruutu isn't moved to center he stays on the first line. If Cole is moved back to first to help his buddy Staal I could see Ruu going to the second line.  I actually think before the season is to old that La Rose  will be on the third line and shifted up and down during games for energy.  In fact we could see a lot of line juggling once again this season.

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are there any tough guys that can score?? :)i agree, we are young but will surprise.. looking forward to the year.. go yanks smile.gif, thats for tsa smile.gif hope everyones  summers been good. dinz

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If Cole and Sergei are on the squad to start the year, which is very likely, then I'd like to see them on the top two lines.  Why? Take pressure off the newbies to produce from day one, such as Tlusty on the 2nd line.

It will be a season of development and exploration, where mature players will have to carry the load early.  If they fail to produce, then the youngsters get the added ice time.

As for Pitkanen, my recollection is that McBain benefited from pointers byJoni when he joined the squad late last year.  Unless he is traded for significant value, there is still much that he adds.  The development of younger defenders will likely sway JR in handling Joni's contract negotiation (better feel for value to club).

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I agree, having Samsonov on your line is like having a turbo - it works in a Porsche but in a Gremlin (the 3rd line), who'd notice?  When Sammy was playing with Tom and Rod, there was no chance of him lubricating the gears of an offensive machine... Tom and Rod are defensive forwards.  But, you put Sammy with someone more offense-minded, and you get the best results.  Even when Sammy went through the goal drought, he was still creating opportunities and assists with his linemates.  We need that, especially now that Whitney is gone.

Cole I don't know about...

Putting Samsonov on the 3rd line is like installing a jet engine into a brick wall... what's the point?  Is Sammy going to go up against the other team's top line and shut them down?!  No!

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That's a good point about Samsonov. I still think third line is alright for him but fourth line is just a waste. It would be interesting to see how he would do back on the second line. He sure can open up ice for his line mates even when he isn't scoring. Toward the end of last season I thought he was getting his scoring touch back.

I don't think any of us know how Cole will do. He looked a little lost at the end of last season. I guess I hope that Cole will stay healthy and be able to use his speed and strength to give us a net presence down low. I don't think we will ever see the Cole who was able to bang in the corners again but he should still be able to create chances and net 20-25 goals.  Maybe that is just wishful thinking but that's  my hope.

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What I don't want to see again this year is Sammy crossing the blueline with nothing to do but dust off the puck while waiting for somebody to get down and help him out.  That's a waste...

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Don't forget about Samson. All this kid did last year was put up 37 goals and let the rats in points. There has to be a spot on the 3rd / 4th line for this kid. He has too much talent. He needs to get consistent NHL playing time. I could definitely see him beating out boychuck and if samsonov is dealt that would open it up even more.

IMO cole is an injury skating on the ice. He will start off fairly decent but he will taper off as the season goes on. I'm still not sure that anyone would want him by the trading deadline....we'll see...too hard to tell right now.

I wonder if Osala or somebody else can be converted to center the fourth line? When you put out 4 lines...that fourth line doesn't need to be a checking line. I think with a couple of young players with K-Stop doing the dirty work in the corners this could be a fairly productive 4th line. Lots of options here but let's get Samson into the roster.....he's too valuable to be in Charlotte.

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When Sammy first came here when we got him of waivers he was a beast.  He was amazing to watch and there was not a single player that could contain the guy.  He was the best offensive player on our team.I think he knows what is being asked of him this season.  I see the guy on the 2nd line.  I also see him putting up some serious points this season.  He knows that he is needed.  It will be a psychological battle for him.  He can put up 60 points though.

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I am skeptical about Cole. There have been hints here and their about injuries, and maybe that's part of it. It's just that he has gone through such long stretches of not producing, especially in the playoffs. Still, at times he looks great, which really makes me wonder. He does still hit people, and we don't have a lot of that in our current line up.

Sammy, Sammy, where for art thou Sammy. So much flash and sizzle. So little of the goal horn going off. I also recall how much fun he was to watch when he first got here, and was making the horn go off then, and that after being in much the funk he seems to be in now.

I am on record saying I would move one or both of these guys if possible. Mainly because they are as of last viewing 3rd liners, which I agree is the best place for our young wingers. However, if they're going to be on the team, which seems likely, then I also agree with putting them on the second line thus having the youngsters ready to take their spots, and their contracts on the line, and see for one last time if either of these guys can find their game.

If Cole and Sammy become even second line productive, this team will be better than I am thinking, and that would be great. If they get this kind of opportunity and fail again...waiver wire.

I have pointed out in the past and agree with Stanley-C, Samson should be watched. The perfect place for him to make the team is on the 4th line. Yes, the kid has shown the skill to score, but he is a beast along the boards and can cycle with the best of them. That ought to create a spot on the 4th line. Then, a la Chad LaRose (who also scored a bunch in the minors), he can step up during injury opportunities and work his way onto a scoring line (particularly if others cough Cole cough fail).

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I'll say this, the little I've seen of the NHL Samson, you just can't take the puck away from the guy.  I also hope he gets a long look and is given more of an opportunity with the big club this season. 

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I had another thought... if Skinner starts the season as the third line center, I wouldn't mind seeing Samsonov on his wing.  I think those two would compliment eachother very well.  We'd just have to play that line more than 10 minutes a night.  They could be lethal together, especially with a wrecking ball wing on the other side.

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There has been zero talk of Skinner taking that third line center position; I think management only plans to use him as a winger.

Some people here don't like the idea of Ruutu on the third line, but I woulnd't be surprised to see that happen. If Nash decides to stay in college then that position will need to be filled - why signed another center when you can move one of your wingers there? This team has SO MANY wingers, so I like the idea of opening up a winger position to allow someone else to move in.

However, I do understand why people don't like the idea of him there.. Third line=less minutes... So, I don't know.. tough situation.

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I had another thought... if Skinner starts the season as the third line center, I wouldn't mind seeing Samsonov on his wing.  I think those two would compliment eachother very well.  We'd just have to play that line more than 10 minutes a night.  They could be lethal together, especially with a wrecking ball wing on the other side.
I like that idea, alot. I also like the idea of Ruutu being placed on third line as well, I could see either working very well. Decisions decisions. :l

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I think some are forgetting the Ruutu had major shoulder surgery and some players are never the same again after that.  Starting Ruutu on the third line could be a good move untill he builds up strength and confidence cuz he wont have to play against the other teams top defenders.  Once he shows he's good to go (fingers crossed), there will other options in Charlotte ready to make their mark like Matsimoto (spelling?).

I wouldnt have a problem seeing Sammy and Ruutu on the same line, the problem I would have is if Ruutu doesnt prove he's ready to move back up to the top lines after a month.  But lets not go there yet. Aarrg.gif

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Put Ruutu on the third line? Thats one expensive third liner at $4 million plus

Id rather see the $4 million dollar man on the third line until they're sure he's healthy than on the IR for the season with chronic shoulder issues wink.gif

  

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[quote name='fkelly wrote:


cane-addict-1']

Put Ruutu on the third line? Thats one expensive third liner at $4 million plus

Id rather see the $4 million dollar man on the third line until they're sure he's healthy than on the IR for the season with chronic shoulder issues wink.gif

  I think your taking a middle of the season approach to clearing him, he's got an entire preseason/camp to see where he's at. If he was returning 20 games into the season then yes you start him on the 3rd or even 4th line. 

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[quote name='OBXer wrote:


remkin']Ruutu on the third line makes no sense if he is healthy. We have one, maybe two legitimate first liners: Staal and Jokinen. The next name that can be put ont the first line with a straight face is Ruutu. I can see Ruutu on the second line, but thats as low as makes sense.

That third line center looks more and more to be one of the kids getting a huge opportunity, or a late value pick up. But not Ruutu.

I agree. If Ruutu isn't moved to center he stays on the first line. If Cole is moved back to first to help his buddy Staal I could see Ruu going to the second line.  I actually think before the season is to old that La Rose  will be on the third line and shifted up and down during games for energy.  In fact we could see a lot of line juggling once again this season.

I see a lot of line juggling happening, too. That's the problem with our roster right now. Lots of 2nd and 3rd line guys and not too many 1st line or realy 4th line guys... which means depending on who's hot/cold at a particular time they will move around. I can LaRose on the 1st line all the way down to the 4th, for instance.

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One thing to remember, putting guys like Samsonov and even Cole on the third line puts them against the lower D pairings on the other team, which tends to give them more quality chances. With a solid center like Cull... er, never mind... sad.gif

Well, at least we aren't likely to have the most expensive 4th line in hockey this year...

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[quote name='witchking-ch1 wrote:


OBXer wrote:

remkin']Ruutu on the third line makes no sense if he is healthy. We have one, maybe two legitimate first liners: Staal and Jokinen. The next name that can be put ont the first line with a straight face is Ruutu. I can see Ruutu on the second line, but thats as low as makes sense.

That third line center looks more and more to be one of the kids getting a huge opportunity, or a late value pick up. But not Ruutu.

I agree. If Ruutu isn't moved to center he stays on the first line. If Cole is moved back to first to help his buddy Staal I could see Ruu going to the second line.  I actually think before the season is to old that La Rose  will be on the third line and shifted up and down during games for energy. 
In fact we could see a lot of line juggling once again this season.

I see a lot of line juggling happening, too. That's the problem with our roster right now. Lots of 2nd and 3rd line guys and not too many 1st line or realy 4th line guys... which means depending on who's hot/cold at a particular time they will move around. I can LaRose on the 1st line all the way down to the 4th, for instance.

We have a metric ton of guys who can play on the 4th line. I wouldn't put to much worry in that.

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[quote name='legend-1 wrote:


witchking-ch1 wrote:

OBXer']I agree. If Ruutu isn't moved to center he stays on the first line. If Cole is moved back to first to help his buddy Staal I could see Ruu going to the second line.  I actually think before the season is to old that La Rose  will be on the third line and shifted up and down during games for energy. 
In fact we could see a lot of line juggling once again this season.

I see a lot of line juggling happening, too. That's the problem with our roster right now. Lots of 2nd and 3rd line guys and not too many 1st line or realy 4th line guys... which means depending on who's hot/cold at a particular time they will move around. I can LaRose on the 1st line all the way down to the 4th, for instance.

We have a metric ton of guys who can play on the 4th line. I wouldn't put to much worry in that.

Agreed. We've 2 or 3 entire lines worth of 4th line players and a decent second line. Unfortunately, most NHL teams have first lines. And legitimate NHL quality coaches. Cam is going to have to win game single handedly. 

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[quote name='legend-1 wrote:


fkelly wrote:

cane-addict-1']

Put Ruutu on the third line? Thats one expensive third liner at $4 million plus

Id rather see the $4 million dollar man on the third line until they're sure he's healthy than on the IR for the season with chronic shoulder issues
wink.gif

  
I think your taking a middle of the season approach to clearing him, he's got an entire preseason/camp to see where he's at. If he was returning 20 games into the season then yes you start him on the 3rd or even 4th line. 

Thats a fair point but only the last couple of pre season games are where a team will ice their starters.  More than likely, he'll only have drills and a partial AHL line up to play against untill those last 1-2 games.  If it were up to me, Id rather see Ruutu prove he can stay healthy AND play at an elite level (with all his physicality) while not getting hammered by top defenders for a few weeks before moving him up to where he should be. 

At that point, someone in Charlotte may be ready to make their case for the 3rd line center position.  If not, Dwyer is a decent bandaid imo untill someone is ready. 

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I fret a lot about our third line center and the loss of Cullen. Many fret about our defense. But check this out.

If our top 4 defenseman live up to their potential (not career years, just high average), we will have the highest scoring defense in the league.

What? Well Corvo and Pitkanen's potential is well established. Babchuk's is a decent guess. McBain is the wild card and projecting last year out is probably unrealistic, but fun anyway.

If we project Corvo and Pitkanen to high average years and 82 games we get a fairly reasonable prediction of:

Corvo: 10G/25A: This would have been #18 in the league G/#59 Asst : out of 180 top 6 defense spots.

Pits: 7G/40A This would have been #36 in the leauge G/#8 Asst : out of 180

These are very reasonable projections. They could both do better.

Babchuk is more difficult. He had the one insane stretch where he was scoring at will and a year where he didn't score much. But if we apply his Russian numbers and scale back the 15 Goal year (he did not play a full season though), we get a guess for Babs of:

Babs: 13G/20A #8 (#4 if he hit 15) goals/ #59 assist. 

(BTW if we project his 15G year over a full season Babs would have 18 G also #2 last year)

Now it gets kind of crazy. McBain is the great unknown. This kid has the potential to be off the hook.

If we project his numbers from his few games last year over a full season, it gets giddy.

McBain: 18 goals/41 assists. HUH? Probably not, but the math is correct.

If he had done that last year he would have been #2 in the league in goals and #3 in points. Woa.

So, if Babs and McBain reach their full projections we would have the #2 and #3 offensive defenseman before counting Pits and Corvo.

If we project our top 4 out with McBain as Mr Universe we get a top 4 with 48 goals. No team was even close to that last year. Best I can tell the next closest was the LA Kings with 32 Goals, and Nashville with 31 (again, this is from their top 4 guys, not the whole defense).

But here's the thing. Even if we dial McBain back to half of that production we have 39G vs 32G for the Kings.

In terms of assists our guys would rank as follows.

Babs: #59/180:

Corvo: #44/180

Pits: #8

McBain #7

In terms of points, our guys would average out as 4 #17's out of 180. Averaging 43 points each.

OK, first, I realize that we also have to play defense. But Corvo and Pitkanen and McBain can play defense, and then there's Gleason (who, by the way has shown spots of increasing offense himself, just imagine if he scored a few more points).

Second, McBain may not end up being the #3 most productive defenseman in the league and 14 games is not much of an "n". Then again, he will be more NHL ready this year.

All I'm saying is that amidst the uncertainty, it is not crazy to say that we could have the best offense from the blue line in the entire league.

If Cam is on, and our kid forwards develop, and our d plays at least average in our own end, that could allow us to sneak up on a few people.

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