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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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Optimism is more fun than pessimism. Lately I have been trying to view the glass half full. I do think that our young, hungry team has a lot of potential, and could surprise. Our offense from the blueline might really catch a few people off guard.

That said, there is legitimate cause for concern up front. We have a rather obvious lack of proven point producers in our top 9. I'm setting the bar pretty low here. Anyone who has put just 2 consecutive 20 goal seasons up recently, please stand up. Mr. Staal, very good...anyone else? Anyone? Anyone? Ferris? We have one forward in the top 9 who has recently strung together 2 20+ goal seasons. One out of nine.

But what about the youth injecting all that energy? It could work, but historically that has really worked great for us at the end of the season, when other teams are worn down. Will it work for the whole year? Maybe. Further, while the youngsters provided energy at the end of the year, they did NOT provide goals: Dwyer, Boychuk, Tlusty, Bowman: 13 goals/118 games.

I am choosing to keep an open mind. I do think that there is a decent chance that a couple of those guys that got some decent ice time last year will start finding the back of the net. As I've mentioned I think LaRose really is a 20 goal guy. Nash might surprise. Cole and Sammy might play better on this new, younger team, etc.

But how many other NHL teams are going into this year with less proven point producers up front? With the season approaching and as a STH and fan I am going to look at the bright side, but there is a lot being left to chance this year. And with the team blatantly wearing it's cheap suit, they are even more open to a critical eye.

It's not done yet. JR may still find one more move in him. And if not, I will go in looking forward to seeing our kids develop and hopefully surprise. But I fully understand the concern.

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Just to remind you Remkin, your man Cullen has never put together a back-to-back 20 goal season in the NHL.  Did that make him any less valuable in your eyes?  Bueller.....Bueller? 

I'm not saying we are going to win the Cup, or even make the playoffs, but folks like the above poster who say we will only score 2 goals a night and finish at the bottom of the standings (because Whitney and Cullen are gone) like it's a foregone conclusion need a chill pill. 

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[quote name='Law-Dawg wrote:


fkelly
']Concern is cool but your post screamed of outright panic.  Im gonna wait till these kids duke it out at camp fighting for a roster spot before throwing them under the bus for the season.  There's a few different options for that 3rd line position, why not wait and see who emerges as the one who earned the spot before panicking?   Last year did suck early on and was full of disappointment but the second half was some fun and exciting hockey with all the kids.  Youth had to happen buddy, enjoy the ride and see how the chips fall and which kid develops into our next core player.

My hope is that we look a lot like the 2006-07 Leafs team coached by Mo'  which was a pretty young team (Stajan (22), Steen (22), Antropov (26), Ponikavarsky (26), Kaberle (28)) that was able to put together a 91 point season and just miss the playoffs.  Of course they had Sundin and some other players but in general this was a young team with low expectations and Mo did a pretty darn good job of coaching them up.  91 points was good for the 6 seed last year in the playoffs. 

  

Paul Maurice takes a beating from many of the fans, some of which is justified, but one of his biggest strengths is his ability to work with and get the most from young dveloping players.  I'm with you Lawn-Dog, I'd be happy to see a fresh young team with lots of energy sneak up quietly on the rest of the league.

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And another thing...I'm not worried about goals, I'm more worried that we find somebody, anybody....Buelller?....to go and get their big butt parked in front of the dadgum net.  If that happens, the goals will come.  There, I said it....

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And another thing...I'm not worried about goals, I'm more worried that we find somebody, anybody....Buelller?....to go and get

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And another thing...I'm not worried about goals, I'm more worried that we find somebody, anybody....Buelller?....to go and get their big butt parked in front of the dadgum net.  If that happens, the goals will come.  There, I said it....
Here's the thing. I'm worried about goals, because as remkin noted and I've mentioned in other posts, we just don't have a consistent scorer alongside Staal. Is it possible that one of Cole/Sammy bounce back? Is it possible that Ruutu stays healthy and scores 20+? Is it possible that LaRose plays more like he did at the end of last season? Is it possible that The Juice remains on fire? Is it possible that one of these kids steps up and breaks out? Yes to all of these... but also a possible no to all of these.

Likewise, while we've added offensive muscle to our D, we don't have a shutdown guy outside of Gleason.

What I suspect we'll see is that every time they play a game, they could either look like Stanley Cup champions or like the Bad News Bears on ice... and all possibly within the same period, maybe even the same shift.

I think we should be prepared for growing pains. I think we should celebrate the games we win because the next night might have you chewing your hat. I think on paper we'll be considered 3rd (or possibly 4th) in our division. But I also think that beating the odds is something this team is noted for doing, and I think our Captain and his Caniacs will relish the challenge.

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Just to remind you Remkin, your man Cullen has never put together a back-to-back 20 goal season in the NHL.  Did that make him any less valuable in your eyes?  Bueller.....Bueller? 

I'm not saying we are going to win the Cup, or even make the playoffs, but folks like the above poster who say we will only score 2 goals a night and finish at the bottom of the standings (because Whitney and Cullen are gone) like it's a foregone conclusion need a chill pill. 

No, but Whitney did, 4 seasons actually.

And Cullen was pretty close, adjusted for a full season he was 16 goals last year and 25 the year before. And he put up 32 assists.

Adjusted for a full season, Cullen's last 4 seasons for goals are:

16,25,26,25

Plus he had developed into a serious assist machine with around 35 assists/year adjusted.

Plus, he would have been our third line center. Oh, you make me miss him. How much better we would be.....

This year it's "like a box of chocolates".     We'll have to wait and see what we get.

On another note: dang it was Beuller, not Ferris. And man does Ben Stein look young there. And was that ever a funny clip and movie for that matter.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


coastal_caniac']Just to remind you Remkin, your man
Cullen has never put together a back-to-back 20 goal season in the NHL.  Did that make him any less valuable in your eyes?  
Bueller.....Bueller? 

I'm not saying we are going to win the Cup, or even make the playoffs, but folks like the above poster who say we will only score 2 goals a night and finish at the bottom of the standings (because Whitney and Cullen are gone) like it's a foregone conclusion need a chill pill. 

No, but Whitney did, 4 seasons actually.

And Cullen was pretty close, adjusted for a full season he was 16 goals last year and 25 the year before. And he put up 32 assists.

Adjusted for a full season, Cullen's last 4 seasons for goals are:

16,25,26,25

Plus he had developed into a serious assist machine with around 35 assists/year adjusted.

Plus, he would have been our third line center. Oh, you make me miss him. How much better we would be.....

This year it's "like a box of chocolates".     We'll have to wait and see what we get.

On another note: dang it was Beuller, not Ferris. And man does Ben Stein look young there. And was that ever a funny clip and movie for that matter.

Okay, we seriously need the "general on season" talk to start up. How many more freakin' days until the puck drops? Ouch.

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I hope Osala will be our guy to screen the goalie.  We NEVER seem to be able to have someone infront of the net.  We have the big shots from the point all we need now is a big body to get deflections, rebounds, and is able to screen.  Osala would be perfect!

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I hope Osala will be our guy to screen the goalie.  We NEVER seem to be able to have someone infront of the net.  We have the big shots from the point all we need now is a big body to get deflections, rebounds, and is able to screen.  Osala would be perfect!

I saw Staal try that once last year, his ear almost fell off, or did fall off and was put back on, not sure exactly. 

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


coastal_caniac']Just to remind you Remkin, your man
Cullen has never put together a back-to-back 20 goal season in the NHL.  Did that make him any less valuable in your eyes?  
Bueller.....Bueller? 

I'm not saying we are going to win the Cup, or even make the playoffs, but folks like the above poster who say we will only score 2 goals a night and finish at the bottom of the standings (because Whitney and Cullen are gone) like it's a foregone conclusion need a chill pill. 

No, but Whitney did, 4 seasons actually.

And Cullen was pretty close, adjusted for a full season he was 16 goals last year and 25 the year before. And he put up 32 assists.

Adjusted for a full season, Cullen's last 4 seasons for goals are:

16,25,26,25

Plus he had developed into a serious assist machine with around 35 assists/year adjusted.

Plus, he would have been our third line center. Oh, you make me miss him. How much better we would be.....

This year it's "like a box of chocolates".     We'll have to wait and see what we get.

On another note: dang it was Beuller, not Ferris. And man does Ben Stein look young there. And was that ever a funny clip and movie for that matter.   Ha, talk about spin.....last time I checked "adjusted goals" isn't a statistic.  But I guess if it helps make your point, imaginary goals count? screwy.gif.  If you "adjust" for everyones imaginary goals then what's the big concern over scoring?

Seriously, I do understand the concern, but let's don't bury the team alive.  We've suddenly ground hogged back to some of the stuff going around 3 months ago when some were lamenting about not getting one of the top-2 draft picks. 

We are rebuilding, right?

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Wait, Matt Cullen isn't coming back next season?  What's the number for 911?  The Hurricanes are totally going to be in last place and move to Portland, Oregon in 2 years because Matt Cullen is gone.  I'm sure everyone got the point that Matt Cullen is a "solid" player the first 1053 times.  If I recall correctly the sky did not fall after Cullen was traded last season.  I might have dreamt it last night, or maybe Leo DiCaprio got into my dreams, but I think the 'Canes even won last season after trading Cullen.  That's so strange. 

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Hurricanes scoring GPG was actually higher after Cullen was traded than it was before.

Their scoring will be fine this coming season.  They were 13th in the league last year.  I don't think we will see much drop-off this year.

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I hate to break it to you but we no longer have a marquee caliber player to compliment Staal.  The closest thing we had was Whitney.  We just lost a 60-70 point scorer and a terrific play maker.

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I hate to break it to you but we no longer have a marquee caliber player to compliment Staal.  The closest thing we had was Whitney.  We just lost a 60-70 point scorer and a terrific play maker.
Thank you captain obvious.

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And last year's team was going to win the Cup.....Right? How did that work out?

Yes, there are not as many proven scorers on the roster, but there are not as many old slow guys either.

In today's NHL a lot of youthful mistakes can be made up for with speed. Don't throw the team under the bus, or hand them the Cup before training camp even starts.

Someone's point about how we have gotten younger near the end of the last two season, and team with rats inserted into the line up played better than the older slower vets. Now the challenge will be if the Young Guns can do it for a whole season. I think coach Mo & JR may use a rotation system with the spots for the Young Guns. Giving several of them exposure to the NHL, but rotating them back to the AHL. That way they won't get burned out & fizzle down the stretch.

I still think the Young Canes will battle hard every night. They will be in the playoff race all year, and may fall just short due to the long season, and the number of young guys on the team. BUT if they do make the playoffs then watch out!!!!!!!

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


remkin wrote:

coastal_caniac']Just to remind you Remkin, your man
Cullen has never put together a back-to-back 20 goal season in the NHL.  Did that make him any less valuable in your eyes?  
Bueller.....Bueller? 

I'm not saying we are going to win the Cup, or even make the playoffs, but folks like the above poster who say we will only score 2 goals a night and finish at the bottom of the standings (because Whitney and Cullen are gone) like it's a foregone conclusion need a chill pill. 

No, but Whitney did, 4 seasons actually.

And Cullen was pretty close, adjusted for a full season he was 16 goals last year and 25 the year before. And he put up 32 assists.

Adjusted for a full season, Cullen's last 4 seasons for goals are:

16,25,26,25

Plus he had developed into a serious assist machine with around 35 assists/year adjusted.

Plus, he would have been our
third
line center. Oh, you make me miss him. How much better we would be.....

This year it's "like a box of chocolates".     We'll have to wait and see what we get.

On another note: dang it was Beuller, not Ferris. And man does Ben Stein look young there. And was that ever a funny clip and movie for that matter.  
Ha, talk about spin.....last time I checked "adjusted goals" isn't a statistic.  But I guess if it helps make your point, imaginary goals count? screwy.gif.  If you "adjust" for everyones imaginary goals then what's the big concern over scoring?

Seriously, I do understand the concern, but let's don't bury the team alive.  We've suddenly ground hogged back to some of the stuff going around 3 months ago when some were lamenting about not getting one of the top-2 draft picks. 

We are rebuilding, right?

Hey, there's no need to resort to this thing screwy.gif.

Matt Cullen had 16 goals last year and 22 the year before no adjusting. (And you didn't mention the Whitney loss).

How do you handle the stats for the year before that when Cullen suffered a massive concussion, missed 23 games and played as many with post concussion syndrome? If you're trying to assess the current value of Matt Cullen, do you say, "but hey he didn't score a single goal while at home recovering from that concussion". Now thats screwy.gif.

To others, yes, I did see that we are not getting Cullen. This was a specific point that we are debating because we have nothing better to do in this awful dead zone of hockey nothingness that is late July.

We are rebuilding. I get that. We need to do that. If we added one more veteran forward, we would not be suddenly looking to the old guys. We're talking one guy. Plus ideally we'd move Cole and or Sammy in that move a net zero on the rebuilding thing.

Not adding one more veteran forward is not about rebuilding, it's about cheap. Fine, but lets not confuse the issues.

It probably won't happen, and I've come to peace with that. I am looking forward to seeing what our young talent will do this year. But the plan is part rebuild, part cheap, all throw a bunch of potential on the wall and hope some of it sticks. There is enough potential that it just might work, but that clearly is the plan (at this point anyway). That plan carries a fair amount of risk. Pointing that out is as legitimate talk as say what the All Star banner looks like.

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To change the subject, has anybody else wondered what's taking so long to get Skinner signed?

I think we are just entering the time period that team start to sign 1st round picks that might make the jump to the NHL. As of today, I think only Hall, & Fowler have signed an entry level contract.

Look for him to sign soon, but it would not surprise me if it doesn't get done till after the prospects tournament.

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How do you handle the stats for the year before that when Cullen suffered a massive concussion, missed 23 games and played as many with post concussion syndrome? If you're trying to assess the current value of Matt Cullen, do you say, "but hey he didn't score a single goal while at home recovering from that concussion". Now thats screwy.gif.

Larose woulda had 41 points if I adjust it for the entire year. But you know what that's not even remotely indicative of his value, he was terrible this year. Adjusting points to accommodate a concussion makes no sense. It's like ignoring he's had injury problems in the past.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


coastal_caniac wrote:

remkin']No, but Whitney did, 4 seasons actually.

And Cullen was pretty close, adjusted for a full season he was 16 goals last year and 25 the year before. And he put up 32 assists.

Adjusted for a full season, Cullen's last 4 seasons for goals are:

16,25,26,25

Plus he had developed into a serious assist machine with around 35 assists/year adjusted.

Plus, he would have been our
third
line center. Oh, you make me miss him. How much better we would be.....

This year it's "like a box of chocolates".     We'll have to wait and see what we get.

On another note: dang it was Beuller, not Ferris. And man does Ben Stein look young there. And was that ever a funny clip and movie for that matter.  

Ha, talk about spin.....last time I checked "adjusted goals" isn't a statistic.  But I guess if it helps make your point, imaginary goals count? 
screwy.gif
.  If you "adjust" for everyones imaginary goals then what's the big concern over scoring?

Seriously, I do understand the concern, but let's don't bury the team alive.  We've suddenly ground hogged back to some of the stuff going around 3 months ago when some were lamenting about not getting one of the top-2 draft picks. 

We are rebuilding, right?

Hey, there's no need to resort to this thing screwy.gif.

Matt Cullen had 16 goals last year and 22 the year before no adjusting. (And you didn't mention the Whitney loss).

How do you handle the stats for the year before that when Cullen suffered a massive concussion, missed 23 games and played as many with post concussion syndrome? If you're trying to assess the current value of Matt Cullen, do you say, "but hey he didn't score a single goal while at home recovering from that concussion". Now thats screwy.gif.

To others, yes, I did see that we are not getting Cullen. This was a specific point that we are debating because we have nothing better to do in this awful dead zone of hockey nothingness that is late July.

We are rebuilding. I get that. We need to do that. If we added one more veteran forward, we would not be suddenly looking to the old guys. We're talking one guy. Plus ideally we'd move Cole and or Sammy in that move a net zero on the rebuilding thing.

Not adding one more veteran forward is not about rebuilding, it's about cheap. Fine, but lets not confuse the issues.

It probably won't happen, and I've come to peace with that. I am looking forward to seeing what our young talent will do this year. But the plan is part rebuild, part cheap, all throw a bunch of potential on the wall and hope some of it sticks. There is enough potential that it just might work, but that clearly is the plan (at this point anyway). That plan carries a fair amount of risk. Pointing that out is as legitimate talk as say what the All Star banner looks like.   Cullen has never had back-to-back 20 goal seasons in his entire career in the NHL.  It's a fact, can't argue with it.  All you can do is spin it.  Adjustment is spin, and can also work in the opposite direction, inflating a players worth to the team.  Someone mentioned  Larose last season, for example. 

I never argued that Cullen wasn't or could be extremely valuable to the team.  I just made a point to your post that basically suggested that all offensive players in the top-9's value was measured in back to back 20-goal seasons.  Remeber...Bueller.....Bueller?  And I'm a huge Cullen fan.  Go back and look at the game by game stats and you will find that Cullen has had long expanses of the last two seasons in a scoring drought.  But the guy killed penalties by the droves and was our best defensive forward. So, he doesn't fit your mold, does he?

As far as the team is concerned,  I think its easy to look in the short-term.  Many do.  But explain to me how adding one 3-mil forward for what lilkey would be a a one-year deal is going to be the best choice in the long-run.  And that's over letting our system be our system and giving these guys a chance to play, and not giving spots to some guy who may score 20 goals for us for a year.

On another note, this (screwy.gif) was referring to the idea of spin, not the poster.     

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