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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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Try this one Coastal Caniac =  spin.gif(yeah, I'm having some fun getting ready for the new software)

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


TSA']Try this one Coastal Caniac =  
spin.gif
(yeah, I'm having some fun getting ready for the new software)

I like that.  If Rem's okay with it I say we change screwy.gif to spin.gif.

  

Or how about this guy?  dizzy.gif  Or this guy?   twilight-zone.gif

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Have you got one for hoping the puck drops soon?  I think we all need to see some guys chasing vulcanized rubber.

This is all I could come up with, not exactly the puck chasing you had in mind?

pucks.jpg

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


coastal_caniac wrote:

TSA']Try this one Coastal Caniac =  
spin.gif
(yeah, I'm having some fun getting ready for the new software)

I like that.  If Rem's okay with it I say we change 
screwy.gif
 to
spin.gif
.

  

  twilight-zone.gif

That guy gave me an instant headache or my mental powers aren't allowing me to be hypnotized by it. I will....not.....support ....bringing...back...Cullen.

  

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


remkin wrote:

coastal_caniac']Ha, talk about spin.....last time I checked "adjusted goals" isn't a statistic.  But I guess if it helps make your point, imaginary goals count? 
screwy.gif
.  If you "adjust" for everyones imaginary goals then what's the big concern over scoring?

Seriously, I do understand the concern, but let's don't bury the team alive.  We've suddenly ground hogged back to some of the stuff going around 3 months ago when some were lamenting about not getting one of the top-2 draft picks. 

We are rebuilding, right?

Hey, there's no need to resort to this thing
screwy.gif
.

Matt Cullen had 16 goals last year and 22 the year before no adjusting. (And you didn't mention the Whitney loss).

How do
you
handle the stats for the year before that when Cullen suffered a massive concussion, missed 23 games and played as many with post concussion syndrome? If you're trying to assess the current value of Matt Cullen, do you say, "but hey he didn't score a single goal while at home recovering from that concussion". Now thats
screwy.gif
.

To others, yes, I did see that we are not getting Cullen. This was a specific point that we are debating because we have nothing better to do in this awful dead zone of hockey nothingness that is late July.

We are rebuilding. I get that. We need to do that. If we added one more veteran forward, we would not be suddenly looking to the old guys. We're talking one guy. Plus ideally we'd move Cole and or Sammy in that move a net zero on the rebuilding thing.

Not adding one more veteran forward is not about rebuilding, it's about cheap. Fine, but lets not confuse the issues.

It probably won't happen, and I've come to peace with that. I am looking forward to seeing what our young talent will do this year. But the plan is part rebuild, part cheap, all throw a bunch of potential on the wall and hope some of it sticks. There is enough potential that it just might work, but that clearly is the plan (at this point anyway). That plan carries a fair amount of risk. Pointing that out is as legitimate talk as say what the All Star banner looks like. 

On another note, this (screwy.gif) was referring to the idea of spin, not the poster.     Oh, never mind. (Not that I may not be crazy).

On the injury thing it does get very subjective. One could say he's injury prone, but getting laid out with a massive head strike isn't really "injury prone". One has to consider it when trying to calculate a guy's value.

The main idea, the consecutive 20 goal thing aside, is that a healthy Matt Cullen is one of the most productive third line center options in the league, on top of all of the other great things he brings. Subbing an unknown for him is very unlikely to make us better. I actually sense that everyone knows this, and you agree also, so we may be getting a little prickly with nothing new to bring up.

I suspect that we can all agree that we are going "rebuild", but also "cheap" and that combination leads to a lot of "ifs". Not that it might not turn out great. Things seemed pretty lined up after the cup and last year, and that plan didn't work out.

I am thinking that JR's knows that we ought to have a better option at third center, but I bet the problem is the length of the deal. We need someone on a one year deal and most of the best guys are looking for at least 3 years if not more. Cullen is a perfect example. There is little doubt that Cullen is a better option than we currently have, but JR and Cullen both know that the following year, we are going to want to slot Skinner, Nash, Dalpe in there. Any other decent center is going to see that too and will look for greener pastures.

Thus, JR figures out a way to snipe a guy on a one year deal, or we go with the young'uns fighting it our for the chance of a lifetime. I'm hoping for the former, but betting on the latter.

Anyway, despite my concerns, I am swinging to the light side. If 2 of our forward prospects shine, and one more acquits himself well, we are part way there. If LaRose and Jussi are strong and at least one of Cole or Sammy produces some points we will be pretty good. Add a rip roaring offensive defense and an All Star goalie and the clouds will part and we might surprise a few teams.

If Boychuk and Tlusty or Bowman suddenly start scoring and say Cole finds his game, with all the points we might put up from the blue line, we could have some high scoring games. I like those. Not a purist. Like low scoring games? Watch soccer.

But I digress....

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


coastal_caniac wrote:

remkin']Hey, there's no need to resort to this thing
screwy.gif
.

Matt Cullen had 16 goals last year and 22 the year before no adjusting. (And you didn't mention the Whitney loss).

How do
you
handle the stats for the year before that when Cullen suffered a massive concussion, missed 23 games and played as many with post concussion syndrome? If you're trying to assess the current value of Matt Cullen, do you say, "but hey he didn't score a single goal while at home recovering from that concussion". Now thats
screwy.gif
.

To others, yes, I did see that we are not getting Cullen. This was a specific point that we are debating because we have nothing better to do in this awful dead zone of hockey nothingness that is late July.

We are rebuilding. I get that. We need to do that. If we added one more veteran forward, we would not be suddenly looking to the old guys. We're talking one guy. Plus ideally we'd move Cole and or Sammy in that move a net zero on the rebuilding thing.

Not adding one more veteran forward is not about rebuilding, it's about cheap. Fine, but lets not confuse the issues.

It probably won't happen, and I've come to peace with that. I am looking forward to seeing what our young talent will do this year. But the plan is part rebuild, part cheap, all throw a bunch of potential on the wall and hope some of it sticks. There is enough potential that it just might work, but that clearly is the plan (at this point anyway). That plan carries a fair amount of risk. Pointing that out is as legitimate talk as say what the All Star banner looks like. 

On another note, this (
screwy.gif
) was referring to the idea of spin, not the poster.     
Oh, never mind. (Not that I may not be crazy).

On the injury thing it does get very subjective. One could say he's injury prone, but getting laid out with a massive head strike isn't really "injury prone". One has to consider it when trying to calculate a guy's value.

The main idea, the consecutive 20 goal thing aside, is that a healthy Matt Cullen is one of the most productive third line center options in the league, on top of all of the other great things he brings. Subbing an unknown for him is very unlikely to make us better. I actually sense that everyone knows this, and you agree also, so we may be getting a little prickly with nothing new to bring up.

I suspect that we can all agree that we are going "rebuild", but also "cheap" and that combination leads to a lot of "ifs". Not that it might not turn out great. Things seemed pretty lined up after the cup and last year, and that plan didn't work out.

I am thinking that JR's knows that we ought to have a better option at third center, but I bet the problem is the length of the deal. We need someone on a one year deal and most of the best guys are looking for at least 3 years if not more. Cullen is a perfect example. There is little doubt that Cullen is a better option than we currently have, but JR and Cullen both know that the following year, we are going to want to slot Skinner, Nash, Dalpe in there. Any other decent center is going to see that too and will look for greener pastures.

Thus, JR figures out a way to snipe a guy on a one year deal, or we go with the young'uns fighting it our for the chance of a lifetime. I'm hoping for the former, but betting on the latter.

Anyway, despite my concerns, I am swinging to the light side. If 2 of our forward prospects shine, and one more acquits himself well, we are part way there. If LaRose and Jussi are strong and at least one of Cole or Sammy produces some points we will be pretty good. Add a rip roaring offensive defense and an All Star goalie and the clouds will part and we might surprise a few teams.

If Boychuk and Tlusty or Bowman suddenly start scoring and say Cole finds his game, with all the points we might put up from the blue line, we could have some high scoring games. I like those. Not a purist. Like low scoring games? Watch soccer.

But I digress....

I still think you have to look beyond the upcoming season to really evaluate the moves this offseason.  I'm one who believes the team is committed to the future and is willing to accept the fact that the "ifs" this season could result in missing the playoffs again.  But, its not like we are looking at 3-4 years before we are competitive again.  We just drafted a helluva potential scorer, added two former first rounders in Nash and Sanguinetti, bolstered our weak defensive production with Babs and the resigning of Corvo, and have some damn good prospects in the system that look ready to make the jump.

In the short term, it will be difficult to replace Whitney's goals and playmaking ability, and the contributions of Cullen on both ends of the ice.  But, I think we have the talent in the system now to do it in the long term.  If we can get our prospects and recent acquisitions in the mix, the long-term may only be a season.  You can't do that by adding vets to one-year deals to make the short-term more palatable to the fans.

I think everyone agrees and realizes this season we will be operating on the "cheap".  Its a small market franchise, we need to make some money.  But, with this year's draft and our recent acquisitions, the "cheap" doesn't look to be as bleak as it did a couple of months ago. 

It seems fruitless to me to continue to lament the fact we lost scoring.  I realize its hard to for some folks to look beyond this season, but I think JR will come out the other end smelling like a rose, if just 3 or 4 of these young guys can reach their potential.  You just never know until the puck drops.

It will likely be an up and down year.  The "downs" are fresh in our memory.  The "ups" are also, but the "ups" this season could be a heckuva lotta fun to watch.  I have no expectations other than seeing some of these prospects make the jump and contribute.  As long as the core plays to their potential we could be around .500 going down the stretch.  That's what I'm hoping for.

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


remkin wrote:

coastal_caniac']

On another note, this (
screwy.gif
) was referring to the idea of spin, not the poster.     

Oh, never mind. (Not that I may not be crazy).

On the injury thing it does get very subjective. One could say he's injury prone, but getting laid out with a massive head strike isn't really "injury prone". One has to consider it when trying to calculate a guy's value.

The main idea, the consecutive 20 goal thing aside, is that a healthy Matt Cullen is one of the most productive third line center options in the league, on top of all of the other great things he brings. Subbing an unknown for him is very unlikely to make us better. I actually sense that everyone knows this, and you agree also, so we may be getting a little prickly with nothing new to bring up.

I suspect that we can all agree that we are going "rebuild", but also "cheap" and that combination leads to a lot of "ifs". Not that it might not turn out great. Things seemed pretty lined up after the cup and last year, and that plan didn't work out.

I am thinking that JR's knows that we ought to have a better option at third center, but I bet the problem is the
length
of the deal. We need someone on a one year deal and most of the best guys are looking for at least 3 years if not more. Cullen is a perfect example. There is little doubt that Cullen is a better option than we currently have, but JR and Cullen both know that the following year, we are going to want to slot Skinner, Nash, Dalpe in there. Any other decent center is going to see that too and will look for greener pastures.

Thus, JR figures out a way to snipe a guy on a one year deal, or we go with the young'uns fighting it our for the chance of a lifetime. I'm hoping for the former, but betting on the latter.

Anyway, despite my concerns, I am swinging to the light side. If 2 of our forward prospects shine, and one more acquits himself well, we are part way there. If LaRose and Jussi are strong and at least one of Cole or Sammy produces some points we will be pretty good. Add a rip roaring offensive defense and an All Star goalie and the clouds will part and we might surprise a few teams.

If Boychuk and Tlusty or Bowman suddenly start scoring and say Cole finds his game, with all the points we might put up from the blue line, we could have some high scoring games. I like those. Not a purist. Like low scoring games? Watch soccer.

But I digress....

I still think you have to look beyond the upcoming season to really evaluate the moves this offseason.  I'm one who believes the team is committed to the future and is willing to accept the fact that the "ifs" this season could result in missing the playoffs again.  But, its not like we are looking at 3-4 years before we are competitive again.  We just drafted a helluva potential scorer, added two former first rounders in Nash and Sanguinetti, bolstered our weak defensive production with Babs and the resigning of Corvo, and have some damn good prospects in the system that look ready to make the jump.

In the short term, it will be difficult to replace Whitney's goals and playmaking ability, and the contributions of Cullen on both ends of the ice.  But, I think we have the talent in the system now to do it in the long term.  If we can get our prospects and recent acquisitions in the mix, the long-term may only be a season.  You can't do that by adding vets to one-year deals to make the short-term more palatable to the fans.

I think everyone agrees and realizes this season we will be operating on the "cheap".  Its a small market franchise, we need to make some money.  But, with this year's draft and our recent acquisitions, the "cheap" doesn't look to be as bleak as it did a couple of months ago. 

It seems fruitless to me to continue to lament the fact we lost scoring.  I realize its hard to for some folks to look beyond this season, but I think JR will come out the other end smelling like a rose, if just 3 or 4 of these young guys can reach their potential.  You just never know until the puck drops.

It will likely be an up and down year.  The "downs" are fresh in our memory.  The "ups" are also, but the "ups" this season could be a heckuva lotta fun to watch.  I have no expectations other than seeing some of these prospects make the jump and contribute.  As long as the core plays to their potential we could be around .500 going down the stretch.  That's what I'm hoping for.Believe it or not, for the most part I agree. I think our intermediate-term future is very bright and we suddenly have tons of prospects with lots of upside. JR kicked corn in the draft with several beautiful moves.

The problem with tossing this year out is that last year was so disheartening. So after last year, to have management come out and say, we're going super cheap to attract a buyer, and thus risk another bad year just to save a few bucks, makes one who has bought tickets to 40+ games this year less thrilled than he might otherwise be.

Based just on the rebuild game plan, we could absolutely bring another vet. forward in. Buy out Sammy and do it if we need space in the line up. But what we have a mix of rebuild and cheap. It's the cheap part that is more annoying to me. If I'm just watching this team on TV and going to a few games, maybe it's no big deal, but as as STH I am pretty invested (literally) in this year. Despite that, I can get behind the rebuild. I just can't capitulate so easily to the cheap thing. Just about every other team in the league would look at our line up and add at least one veteran forward. And maybe JR still will, who knows?

These sentiments are legit. If the team comes out and stinks others will be more annoyed by the cheap also, BUT...

... as a die hard fan with the season approaching, it is time to turn optimistic and look at the upside of all this potential we have. So, yes we have a TON of potential talent. In 2-3 years we should be very competitive. If a few guys find their game this year it could be very nice. I going try to focus on that for a while.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


coastal_caniac wrote:

remkin']Oh, never mind. (Not that I may not be crazy).

On the injury thing it does get very subjective. One could say he's injury prone, but getting laid out with a massive head strike isn't really "injury prone". One has to consider it when trying to calculate a guy's value.

The main idea, the consecutive 20 goal thing aside, is that a healthy Matt Cullen is one of the most productive third line center options in the league, on top of all of the other great things he brings. Subbing an unknown for him is very unlikely to make us better. I actually sense that everyone knows this, and you agree also, so we may be getting a little prickly with nothing new to bring up.

I suspect that we can all agree that we are going "rebuild", but also "cheap" and that combination leads to a lot of "ifs". Not that it might not turn out great. Things seemed pretty lined up after the cup and last year, and that plan didn't work out.

I am thinking that JR's knows that we ought to have a better option at third center, but I bet the problem is the
length
of the deal. We need someone on a one year deal and most of the best guys are looking for at least 3 years if not more. Cullen is a perfect example. There is little doubt that Cullen is a better option than we currently have, but JR and Cullen both know that the following year, we are going to want to slot Skinner, Nash, Dalpe in there. Any other decent center is going to see that too and will look for greener pastures.

Thus, JR figures out a way to snipe a guy on a one year deal, or we go with the young'uns fighting it our for the chance of a lifetime. I'm hoping for the former, but betting on the latter.

Anyway, despite my concerns, I am swinging to the light side. If 2 of our forward prospects shine, and one more acquits himself well, we are part way there. If LaRose and Jussi are strong and at least one of Cole or Sammy produces some points we will be pretty good. Add a rip roaring offensive defense and an All Star goalie and the clouds will part and we might surprise a few teams.

If Boychuk and Tlusty or Bowman suddenly start scoring and say Cole finds his game, with all the points we might put up from the blue line, we could have some high scoring games. I like those. Not a purist. Like low scoring games? Watch soccer.

But I digress....

I still think you have to look beyond the upcoming season to really evaluate the moves this offseason.  I'm one who believes the team is committed to the future and is willing to accept the fact that the "ifs" this season could result in missing the playoffs again.  But, its not like we are looking at 3-4 years before we are competitive again.  We just drafted a helluva potential scorer, added two former first rounders in Nash and Sanguinetti, bolstered our weak defensive production with Babs and the resigning of Corvo, and have some damn good prospects in the system that look ready to make the jump.

In the short term, it will be difficult to replace Whitney's goals and playmaking ability, and the contributions of Cullen on both ends of the ice.  But, I think we have the talent in the system now to do it in the long term.  If we can get our prospects and recent acquisitions in the mix, the long-term may only be a season.  You can't do that by adding vets to one-year deals to make the short-term more palatable to the fans.

I think everyone agrees and realizes this season we will be operating on the "cheap".  Its a small market franchise, we need to make some money.  But, with this year's draft and our recent acquisitions, the "cheap" doesn't look to be as bleak as it did a couple of months ago. 

It seems fruitless to me to continue to lament the fact we lost scoring.  I realize its hard to for some folks to look beyond this season, but I think JR will come out the other end smelling like a rose, if just 3 or 4 of these young guys can reach their potential.  You just never know until the puck drops.

It will likely be an up and down year.  The "downs" are fresh in our memory.  The "ups" are also, but the "ups" this season could be a heckuva lotta fun to watch.  I have no expectations other than seeing some of these prospects make the jump and contribute.  As long as the core plays to their potential we could be around .500 going down the stretch.  That's what I'm hoping for.
Believe it or not, for the most part I agree. I think our intermediate-term future is very bright and we suddenly have tons of prospects with lots of upside. JR kicked corn in the draft with several beautiful moves.

The problem with tossing this year out is that last year was so disheartening. So after last year, to have management come out and say, we're going super cheap to attract a buyer, and thus risk another bad year just to save a few bucks, makes one who has bought tickets to 40+ games this year less thrilled than he might otherwise be.

Based just on the rebuild game plan, we could absolutely bring another vet. forward in. Buy out Sammy and do it if we need space in the line up. But what we have a mix of rebuild and cheap. It's the cheap part that is more annoying to me. If I'm just watching this team on TV and going to a few games, maybe it's no big deal, but as as STH I am pretty invested (literally) in this year. Despite that, I can get behind the rebuild. I just can't capitulate so easily to the cheap thing. Just about every other team in the league would look at our line up and add at least one veteran forward. And maybe JR still will, who knows?

These sentiments are legit. If the team comes out and stinks others will be more annoyed by the cheap also, BUT...

... as a die hard fan with the season approaching, it is time to turn optimistic and look at the upside of all this potential we have. So, yes we have a TON of potential talent. In 2-3 years we should be very competitive. If a few guys find their game this year it could be very nice. I going try to focus on that for a while.

I've been invested for the long haul for a long time.  So, I can understand your annoyance with the cheap.  I still believe things will go okay and somehow we will salvage what looks to be a potentially long season.   Feel free to call me screwy.gif but I'm an eternal optomist.

It makes things tougher when there is not too much going on to talk about...

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I am curious, everyone keeps making reference to the team reducing the player salaries in order to make the team more attractive so that PK can sell somewhere between 10 and 49 percent of the team.   It seems to me that anyone that is going to buy into the Canes will do their research before spend many (many) millions of dollars and will be well aware of what the operating costs have been,will be now and in the future.  I can't see where a one year reduction will make the team more attractive to a buyer.  You don't buy a hockey club to make money from year to year.  You buy to make money on the appreciation of the club value.  All teams (except Detroit) have to have some rebuilding years, I think that PK has decided that with the nice core and the young talent we have that this year is to be a rebuilding year and good business dictates that he keep his payroll as reasonable as is possible.

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Why in the name of the Hockey Gods, did JR not go after Andy Sutton?? This self imposed salary cap is killing me!!!!

Gleason, Pitkanen, Corvo, McBain, Babchuk, Harrison, and Carson that's why. 

You could make a case and say drop Harrison or Carson, but Sutton did make $3.5M, do I don't see him dropping $3M to sign. Or you could say not sign Corvo. I do like Sutton and he brings that big physical presence, but I wouldn't want to count on him playing 23-25mins a night like Corvo can.

  

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[quote name= OBXer]Check out

at Team Canada's practice. It was posted on another site and on youtube

href="http:///" target=_blank>Was that a forehand go to the knees and then up on the skates back-hand move over the goalies right shoulder?  The Juice could offically have some serious competition in the shootout skills contest.

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


 
OBXer']Check out
at Team Canada's practice. It was posted on another site and on youtube

href="
http:///
" target=_blank>

Was that a forehand go to the knees and then up on the skates back-hand move over the goalies right shoulder?  The Juice could offically have some serious competition in the shootout skills contest.

Skinner seemed to be having fun. Wouldn't mind seeing him and the Juice back to back in a shootout.

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Anybody try one of these globtrotter moves in an actual NHL shootout? Love to see a video of that.

What I noticed is a guy who can hit the top shelf after all kinds of moves. That can lead to a lot of scoring at any level.

Very exciting prospect indeed.

Aside from that, holy cow is this part of the hockey year dull.

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Anybody try one of these globtrotter moves in an actual NHL shootout? Love to see a video of that.

What I noticed is a guy who can hit the top shelf after all kinds of moves. That can lead to a lot of scoring at any level.

Very exciting prospect indeed.

Aside from that, holy cow is this part of the hockey year dull.

I was thinking the same. It's not that I'm not doing other things. I'm enjoying summer but a little Hurricane hockey news would be nice. I still think we will make one more move but not until right before or during training camp.

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[quote name='roll.gifeyes.gifOBXer wrote:


remkin']Anybody try one of these globtrotter moves in an actual NHL shootout? Love to see a video of that.

What I noticed is a guy who can hit the top shelf after all kinds of moves. That can lead to a lot of scoring at any level.

Very exciting prospect indeed.

Aside from that,
holy cow is this part of the hockey year dull.

I was thinking the same. It's not that I'm not doing other things. I'm enjoying summer but a little Hurricane hockey news would be nice. I still think we will make one more move but not until right before or during training camp.

That would be most good, most good. See? That's all I got right now. sleep.gif

  

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