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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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I wear contacts, but I didn't quote your post it was in reference to the poster after you who said he was a bust. I did see that you were making a prediction that he might be. But it is possible that everyone of our prospects is a bust. I don't think it is fair to single him out or expect anything less because we drafted a player higher and traded for other prospects who are also expected to become major parts of the team. I guess we are saying the same thing but from different sides of the possible outcome.

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I just don't see Babs paired with Pits. Pits game is to pinch and join the rush when he can. With Babs I think he would spend more time covering for Babs weakness then be able to play his game. I think it will be Pitkanen /McBain Corvo /Gleason and Babs with either Harrison or Carson. Joni is going to be playing with more than one partner just by virtue of the amount of time he spends on the ice. I expect we will see some shuffling going on too.

I don't think we should give up on Boychuk just yet. I can see where both Boychuk and Cole move up a line with Sutter. But I do think this will be a make or break year for Boychuk.

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On another note, didn't the same thing that alot of people are saying about Boychuk happen to Tlusty in Toronto, too much expected of him at a young age, given up on prematurely? so why should we make the same mistake with boychuk if he doesn't have a break out year, A prospect can't be expected to reach their potential in their first 2 years as a pro, you have to give them time to develop. From that standpoint I can't see how this has to be a breakout season for him, sure it would be great if it was, but I'm not ready to throw him away if it's not.

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I wear contacts, but I didn't quote your post it was in reference to the poster after you who said he was a bust. I did see that you were making a prediction that he might be. But it is possible that everyone of our prospects is a bust. I don't think it is fair to single him out or expect anything less because we drafted a player higher and traded for other prospects who are also expected to become major parts of the team. I guess we are saying the same thing but from different sides of the possible outcome.
That's fine, but since you didn't quote him, or anybody for that matter, one is only left to respond.  I will point out that many of our prospects haven't played 31 NHL games.  Last I checked, Boychuk did, so there's more to judge. I knew making that statement would get some hair standing up but that's fine, cause everyone has their own opinions.  No need for your "mattress" talk. 

.

  

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I haven't seen anything from Boychuck that would lead me to think he will be a good NHL player. He looks like a boy among men. That being said, I hope he proves me wrong.

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When I watch Boychuck play I do see the skill, but it usually only lasts for about half of the play. I see him flying down the wing, but he usually cannot make the move to drive the net, get a really good shot off, or make the pass. I know he is not a power forward, so know that when I say drive the net. I do hope this is the year his scoring improves, be that in Charlotte or here with the big club. I have not given up on him, but my expectations are slightly lowered at this point. I think he can make the jump and be a scorer, but at the AHL or NHL???

My hopeful prediction is that he starts in Charlotte and tears it up and then gets called up and stays and contributes 20 or so goals. I give that about a 65% chance of happening, but I am hopeful.

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


10DollarTH']I had this great idea once. It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.

Boychuk is 20 years old, at least give him a chance to party with the boys after a win before you call him a bust. I think that with this years draft he has been kinda left to the side on our prospect boards, but hopefully he will have a big year year playing more consistent minutes.

There's also this thing called EYEGLASSES.  You might need some.  I said it's possible he MAY be a bust.  I certainly didn't say he WAS a bust.  Clarifying that point was also the statement that my definition of "bust" is not reaching his potential.  That's not jumping to a conclusion.  Looks like you have all ready tried out your own "Jump to Conclusions" mat.

Like I also said, its probably not a popular statement, but I stand by it.    Ouch.  Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays.laugh.gif

Sorry.....couldn't help but keep the references going.

I think just about everyone can probably agree that this is probably a make it or break it year for Boychuk.  I think a good part of the problem he had last year was mental.  In a lot of games he seemed to be really pressing too much.  Other times he seemed to be over-thinking with his decision making.  He really needs a good start to the year to get his confidence going I think.

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On another note, didn't the same thing that alot of people are saying about Boychuk happen to Tlusty in Toronto, too much expected of him at a young age, given up on prematurely? so why should we make the same mistake with boychuk if he doesn't have a break out year, A prospect can't be expected to reach their potential in their first 2 years as a pro, you have to give them time to develop. From that standpoint I can't see how this has to be a breakout season for him, sure it would be great if it was, but I'm not ready to throw him away if it's not.
When I said a make or break year I didn't necessarily mean he needed to have a break out year. What I mean is that with all the prospects we have he will need to have a year that proves he is indeed the type of player that is NHL ready. I also think sometimes last year he appeared to play in spurts and not with consistency. He needs to live up to his expectations or he won't have a place in our lineup. Having said that I think he has the skill and look forward to him having a good year. At least we are talking Canes hockey again.

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If you're judging Boychuck based on last year IMO that is a waste of time.  He played limited minutes with slower line mates.  I'd like to see him with a more up-tempo set of mates where he can let his nose for scoring take over.  Way too early to judge IMO, and I like the fact he's always looking to shoot.

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Its never a waste of time to evaluate a player based upon his ability to handle NHL caliber players.  That includes the ability to not get pushed around. He needs work in that department.  Until he overcomes that, his scoring ability likely won't come through.  He is on the smurfish side.

 

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To keep this going I'll post up my top-5 prospects:

1. McBain - limited season, huge upside.  Actually proved he belonged in the league last year, if you compare the guy to our other prospects, even though his stint with the big club was short.  Looks and plays like the real deal.  Yeah, he's a defenseman but give me a real argument why he isn't our top prospect. 

2.  I give Nash the nod here.  I'm with Rem, he intrigues me. The guy is Ronnie's man.  That's good enough for me.  It's likely that spot will be the hardest to replace in the top-9.  Says alot that the kid got signed.  Really hopeful here!

3. Skinner.  The kid is doing all the right things.  Period.  I would predict he is going to make it real hard for JR to not open a spot for him. 

4. Tlusty.  He fought through an injury last year.  But, we need somebody who can score  15 or so goals and not get pushed around.  I give him the nod over the other prospects. Someone agrees, he is on a one-way.

5.  Tough spot to pick here.  I guess you could throw Boychuk here.  But, take your pick. 

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My top 10 Prospects:

1. McBain - Will not be a prospect after a solid NHL season.

2. Nash - Always trust Ron Francis' opinion.

3. Skinner - Going to be hard to send him back to Jrs.

4. Dumoulin - This kid will be a very solid D for the Canes once he turns pro.

5. Dalpe - I can't ignore his tryout at the AHL level at the end of last season. Very solid prospect.

6. Sanguinetti - Soon to be a good offensive Dman for the Canes.

7. Boychuk - Needs to gain weight / strength, and has a lot to prove to coastal. smile.gif

8. Tlusty - Make or break year for him with a 1 year 1 way contract.

9. Bowman - Needs to find a more consistent game at both the AHL level, & then the NHL level.

10. Shugg - I think this kid was a steal in the 4th round, but has a long way to go to prove that he should have been drafted higher. Biggest question is can he score this year without Hall. He also needs to gain weight / strength.

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Fore the sake of some, I'll put this Boychuk debate in perspective from my eyes.  From my seat last year, the kid looked like a deer in the headlights with the big club. Let's not forget he played around 30 games.  He really didn't do anything well.  He was always out of position, had no hint of a two-way game, couldn't cycle the puck, didn't win scrums along the boards, and basically got pushed around.  If you take that at face value then yeah, he's 20-years old and a prospect.  But, he didn't fare that well in Albany last year either.  I think he had around 36 points in 52 games.

But, when he was drafted HE WAS THE FUTURE.  Those are high expectations.  Maybe some of you weren't around then, but there was alot of talk. 

Fast forward to today.  Are those same expectations there?  In my opinion, and based soley on what I witnessed, he's not even in my top-5 of the prospects in our system.  So, I think this is HIS year to prove something.  At least to me.  So, its up to him.  I agree he has the skills.  But, I think its possible that he just might not live up to the hype he got in his draft year, and never live up to his potential.  For early first rounders (Boychuk went 14th), that's often called a bust.

I certainly hope I'm wrong and I'll be pulling for him with a litte extra effort.

I've thought this for some time now.. I just didn't want to be the one who brought it up..lol. I like his speed, but thats about it. I hate to use the word 'lucky,' but everyone of his goals thus far (in the NHL) have been weird/lucky goals.. So.. I don't know.. I think it would benefit him more to be playing along Sutter, but that would be putting him on the 2nd line, and I don't think he is ready for that.

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I like your list and I have high hopes for Tlustvy(sp?)  I also would like to see Osala do well and Samson those 2 get the 5th spot.  Jerome put up alot of points last year for albany.  Osala is big and seems to control the puck well.  But usually euro's play soft with the exception of the fins for some odd reason.  Just look at Ruutu, and then Pitkanen come playoff time he was really mean.  I was surprised.

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I feel like a zach boychuk apologist, but anyway his first goal was definitely one of the luckiest i've ever seen but this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXCUOJB8EJc was a great backhander against the grain. and yes it was against a backup goalie but nonetheless, very nice to watch. He needs to do this more often.

So how do you have the prospects rated?  

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A little fuel to the Boychuk fire.

A lot of NHL players need to play a season or two of uninspired hockey at the NHL level to find their game. One example is a decent comparison, previously our own Ray Whitney. First time up 4 goals in 26 games and -14. He was 20. Boychuk is 20 now.

The next 3 seasons he averaged 15G in 53 games, then struggled and was sent down for nearly the entire next year in the minors. The next season he was traded (to the Oilers) and then traded again (to the Panthers) where he immediately proceeded to put up 61 points in 68 games (32 goals).

The first couple of games Boychuk came up he was around the puck in the right spot about 10 times. Couldn't buy a goal, but had more good chances than anyone. He's got a nose for it. He's a smaller guy, and a guy who was used to easily blowing past junior players. I still think he will find his NHL game and when he does we will be smiling. 

For an optimistic view on Boychuk here is an article written back in April.

Of course I could be wrong.

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1. McBain- His spot to lose. IMO he is the real deal

2. Skinner - I know at his age he shouldn't be this high on the list but I think he can stick

3. Nash- I don't know enough about him but if Francis likes him..so be it

4. Boychuk - Has the skill. I still like his play.

5. Tlusty/Samson -  edge to Samson. Both need to show more this year. I'm not sold on either yet

There are a lot of good prospects below the top five. Let them fight it out.

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while its hard to rate the prospects because of the different stages they are in I will give it a shot,

1.Skinner (I'm hoping for him to be a perennial all star, he has the skills and the attitude, hopefully it translates well to the NHL)

2. McBain (should be a high scoring defenseman with excellent puck moving skills and great vision on the ice)

3. Boychuk (Very creative with the puck, and great speed, needs to translate it to this level quickly or fans will throw him away =)

4. Nash (very optimistic about his skills and with time could push Sutter for that second line spot, it would be nice to have a little competition at center for once.)

5. Split between Dalpe and Osala- Dalpe has shown a knack for scoring in his limited time in the AHL. 6 goals in 9 games in the regular season and 3 g and 3 a in 8 playoff games isn't too bad a start. Osala - great size and he's finnish, thats got to count for something.

honorable mention goes to Justin Shugg - got a good feeling that he could be the steal of this year's draft but it's too early to tell, hopefully he has a great year in Juniors this year and makes a quick jump to the NHL.

With the depth of our prospect pool and the cap space we will have available the next few years look bright if we are in contention around the trade deadline, we can send a prospect or a pick and pick up some pretty good players if they're available, this rebuild looks to be headed in the right direction a lot quicker than I had thought it would.

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1. Skinner - hasn't played a game in the NHL yet and is already being compared to Parise and Crybaby-Crosby.

2. McBain - Look awesome last year - the slap pass to Eric last year versus Montreal was sick.

3. Nash - haven't SEEN much from him, but the fact Francis wanted him here is enough for me. Plus, his numbers look awesome

4.Tlusty - Rutherford seems to like this guy - wants him in the top six. Looked good with Sutter last year. Needs to become more of a two-way player.

5. Boychuk - the potential is there.. He is going to HAVE to step it up big time this year.

6. Sanguinetti - won both the faster skater and hardest shot in the AHL. He does however struggle in his own zone some.. He sounds like a faster and more athletic Babchuk. Heres to hoping he learns more defensively in Charlotte.

7. Osala - 15 goals playing for hershey on the third line WITHOUT any power-play time is great. Good speed too.

8. Samson - I hate putting him at the 8th spot. This guy has a lot of potential. Lets see if he can keep is scoring up.

9. Dalpe - Showed some great potential in Albany, but I think Nash takes the third line center spot from him.

10. Dumoulin - Big body. Just read an article on him. Sounds like he has the potential to become a really good all around defensiveman.

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I'll go out on a limb (to what seems to be most of you) and say Bowman will be the surprise of the season and the most successful prospect this year.  Don't be fooled by that baby face.  He's a big boy, gets involved and wins the battles for the puck.  I liked what I saw from him last year and he improved almost every game.

Of course I hope I'm wrong a Skinner scores 30+ (if not more) smile.gif

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I'll go out on a limb (to what seems to be most of you) and say Bowman will be the surprise of the season and the most successful prospect this year.  Don't be fooled by that baby face.  He's a big boy, gets involved and wins the battles for the puck.  I liked what I saw from him last year and he improved almost every game.

Of course I hope I'm wrong a Skinner scores 30+ (if not more) smile.gif

You beat me to it. I went and wrote up my rankings a put Bowman up there. Then I hadn't signed in and "poof" all gone. I think Bowman is the first phone call if any of our wingers falter or sustain injury.

My rankings are based on upside for how good that they might end up being.

1. Skinner. #7 pick. 70 freaking goals in one season including 20 playoff goals in 20 games. Knows how to find the net.
2. McBain. If I wasn't so biased towards offense, would be #1. A future All-Star sooner than later. Only one to already look very good in NHL.
3. Boychuk. Am I kidding? No. This is based on total upside and I still think he has it. Future Whitney. NOTE: 2 YEARS younger than Tlusty.
4. Nash. The man with the second most assists in the history of hockey thinks he sees the ice and passes well. 
5. Tlusty. #1 draft pick. Has skills. Projected on to the second line and given a one way. Clearly management likes. 2 yrs ahead of Boychuk.
6. Bowman. Could move up to #3 quickly. First call up on the wing. Knows how to score.
7. Dalpe. Lots of buzz around him last year. May be victim of numbers game if Nash is the real deal. Very interested to see how he looks this yr.
8. Osala. No idea, but other seem to think his Hershey showing was good stuff.
9. Samson. I could really see him following the LaRose career path. 
10. Sanguinetti. Would have put him higher, but just like offense better.
11. Matsumoto. Definitely might be a victim of the numbers game. Best shot would be to beat out Nash/Dalpe out of camp and show something.
12. Our many other defensive picks this year. 

We still have several other prospects lower in the pool who could show something. We are pretty darned deep on prospects. Maybe we trade a few of them for......oh I don't know......maybe.....a first line winger!  Just kidding.

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I'll go out on a limb (to what seems to be most of you) and say Bowman will be the surprise of the season and the most successful prospect this year.  Don't be fooled by that baby face.  He's a big boy, gets involved and wins the battles for the puck.  I liked what I saw from him last year and he improved almost every game.

Of course I hope I'm wrong a Skinner scores 30+ (if not more) smile.gif

You beat me to it. I went and wrote up my rankings a put Bowman up there. Then I hadn't signed in and "poof" all gone. I think Bowman is the first phone call if any of our wingers falter or sustain injury.

My rankings are based on upside for how good that they might end up being.

1. Skinner. #7 pick. 70 freaking goals in one season including 20 playoff goals in 20 games. Knows how to find the net.
2. McBain. If I wasn't so biased towards offense, would be #1. A future All-Star sooner than later. Only one to already look very good in NHL.
3. Boychuk. Am I kidding? No. This is based on total upside and I still think he has it. Future Whitney. NOTE: 2 YEARS younger than Tlusty.
4. Nash. The man with the second most assists in the history of hockey thinks he sees the ice and passes well. 
5. Tlusty. 1st rounder.  Has skills. Projected on to the second line and given a one way. Clearly management likes. 2 yrs ahead of Boychuk.
6. Bowman. Could move up to #3 quickly. First call up on the wing. Knows how to score.
7. Dalpe. Lots of buzz around him last year. May be victim of numbers game if Nash is the real deal. Very interested to see how he looks this yr.
8. Osala. No idea, but others seem to think his Hershey showing was good stuff. Really big. We don't have a lot of that.
9. Samson. I could really see him following the LaRose career path. 
10. Sanguinetti. Would have put him higher, but just like offense better.
11. Matsumoto. Definitely might be a victim of the numbers game. Best shot would be to beat out Nash/Dalpe out of camp and show something.
12. Our many other defensive picks this year. 

We still have several other prospects lower in the pool who could show something. We are pretty darned deep on prospects. Maybe we trade a few of them for......oh I don't know......maybe.....a first line winger!  Just kidding.

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I didn't post my 6-10 top prospects, but others have offered up theirs. To clarify, my rankings are more geared to who can help us sooner than later, so here goes:

5. Boychuk - see my post above

6. Justin Peters - please play him.

7. Sampson - tenacious on the puck, offensive upside, can play the fourth line now.  He's ready. 

8. Bowman - Could be a sleeper contributer, and don't let his face fool you, he's got a frame and has a nose for the puck.

9. Sanguinetti - Injuries might dictate a need for depth at D.  He's got the offensive tools, needs to improve play in his own end.

10. Dalpe - Needs to grow a little but I liked his AHL play coming from just a couple of years of college. He will certainly get a call-up ths year.

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