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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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[quote name='coastal_caniac wrote:


Sutter16 wrote:

coastal_caniac']Feel free to share your knowledge with the rest of us by giving us your rankings.  Based on your comments, I'd like to see just where you have the top-10.  I find it interesting you don't believe Nash was signed to compete for the third-line center position.  I'll admit I haven't watched him play in college, but everything I have read suggests he is likely ready to play some amount of time with the big club, if not make the team out of camp.  Also, I did see him in person at the prospects camp and it was apparent to me in the first few drills he was heads above everyone with the exception of Skinner.  That certainly played into my rankings. 

Also, I find it intersting that no one but myself had Justin Peters ranked in our top-10 prospects.          

I didn't say he wouldn't compete for 3rd line center, obviously he will and he's the front runner right now, but it would better serve him to start in the AHL, similar to how McBain was handled last year.  Not many players can step right from juniors/college into the NHL.  He'll compete primarily with Dalpe, but I guess the organization would rather rush him than Dalpe, which I would agree with.  I don't think Skinner will really compete for 3rd line center duty, he's a winger in the NHL and there's no use starting him at center.  We'll most likely have some winger injured and Skinner will start the year with the Canes on the 9 or 10 game period where the first year of ELC won't kick in, and be sent back down to juniors.  Honestly, I really don't want him playing anymore than that this year, we have too many forwards and Skinner has a chance to build on his crazy goal total in juniors this year and once we can dump Cole and Sammy we'll have more forward openings for Skinner next year.  11-12 will be a great year, if we play it right we'll have no bad contracts and be even younger than this year.

As for my list of prospects, I would go something like this:

1a. McBain
1b. Skinner

For various reasons, overall skill, their ceiling, and what McBain has showed in the NHL to this point.  No doubt they're our top two, but I can't really put one in front of the other at this point, McBain has 4 years on Skinner so they're at different points in their development. 

3. Dalpe
4. Boychuk
5a. Faulk
5b. Doumilin
7a. Bowman
7b. Nash
9. Sanguinetti
10. Osala

There are a couple groups of players that are on the same level/I can't put one in front of the other, so my top 10 is basically this group.
Okay, seems like a well-thought out top-10.  Interesting you have Faulk and Duomolin placed ahead of Peters and Bowman though, but its your list.  Tlusty is getting no love from anyone either.  I do agree outside the top-2 its up for grabs.  Also, everyone can't stay in Charlotte unless we sign more forwards, so some of this group will have to play with the big club.  It could be a revolving door between Charlotte and Raleigh.  

As far as Skinner I agree, logic would dictate he plays the 9 games in Raleigh and heads back to Kitchener.  That will be interesting to see play out.  

      

Didn't add Tlusty because I don't feel he's a prospect anymore, especially since he's on a 1-way deal now. 

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Just saw this on ESPN rumors talking about the Canes. "Team may look to slash more payroll"  I only saw this headline so I don't know how strong the story is or what the speculation. I did read the other day we could be 2 or 3 mil over our self imposed salary cap depending on who makes the Canes roster.. Anyway this is the only rumor I have seen about the Canes in weeks. 

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I'm fairly sure they would take a decent picks and prospects deal to move Samsonov, but that seems unlikely with his lower production last year feeding into his up and down history and his high cap hit. With the right linemates I think he can have another 08-09 type of season. With a bunch of rookies, who knows?

Hard to see much else movable at that cost except Cole. I doubt anyone will offer enough to move Sammy or Cole. But that has been debated almost to death. smile.gif

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I'm sure JR is shopping Sammy and maybe Cole. It is unlikely that anyone wants to take their salary for their level of productivity, even if they gave us little to nothing in return. If the Canes want to dump Sammy's salary, they could trade him for a 5th round pick. I bet that right now JR can't even get that deal. My guess is that we would actually have to sweeten the deal from our end. 

I am not a recent fan of either of these two, but I'd rather give them one more shot than give up any prospects of picks just to dump the salary. We are cheap enough already. Now if someone will take one of these two off our hands without it costing us, then maybe. If they will give us anything, say a second round pick. Fine.

It will be interesting to see. My gut says it doesn't happen, but these lowish level trades are something JR does excel at, so who knows.

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I'm sure JR is shopping Sammy and maybe Cole. It is unlikely that anyone wants to take their salary for their level of productivity, even if they gave us little to nothing in return. If the Canes want to dump Sammy's salary, they could trade him for a 5th round pick. I bet that right now JR can't even get that deal. My guess is that we would actually have to sweeten the deal from our end. 

I am not a recent fan of either of these two, but I'd rather give them one more shot than give up any prospects of picks just to dump the salary. We are cheap enough already. Now if someone will take one of these two off our hands without it costing us, then maybe. If they will give us anything, say a second round pick. Fine.

It will be interesting to see. My gut says it doesn't happen, but these lowish level trades are something JR does excel at, so who knows.

Yeah, that's probably what JR has been working on this past month.  It might take a deal like that, but JR won't give up any of our prospects just to rid us of Samsonov's salary.  I'm hoping for something like Samsonov and a low pick for a low pick, and we get our pick back if he hits a certain number of points or goals.  low risk for a team if money isn't an issue for them, or if they need to take on more salary.  Anything at this point to get Samsonov's salary off the books is fine, especially since it allows room for another prospect.  

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Samsonov or Cole are two moves that could be made. There is always Babchuk or even some of our young guys if the deal is right. We should know more after training camp starts. Of course we could always just stay as we are and make deals after the season starts.

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Samsonov or Cole are two moves that could be made. There is always Babchuk or even some of our young guys if the deal is right. We should know more after training camp starts. Of course we could always just stay as we are and make deals after the season starts.

If we really need to slash payroll, then you have to look at our top salaried guys, not just the ones we wish we could dump. Yes, Cole and Sammy have been debated on this forum for months. I would be surprised if anyone wanted either one of them, but I guess it would be possible for a team that is under payroll to potentially take a chance on Sammy for a low draft pick in return. Given how slow the offseason has been, and given how many UFAs are still out there, I'd say the possibility still exists but the window for it is closing.

The alternative, of course, is to slash payroll with someone who is actually worth what he's being paid. I could certainly see teams showing some interest in either Ruutu or Pitkanen, and while I've been roasted on this board for suggesting it, I still think that Pitkanen could be trade-bait. He's in the final year of his deal, it pays him $4.5m, and if we're going cheap after this season, then the likelihood is that we won't re-sign him. If we're serious about cutting payroll and getting something for Pitkanen before he's priced out of our frugal grasp, then we might see him moved.

Would it make sense from a competitive standpoint? No.

Would it make sense from a "we have to cut payroll" standpoint? Possibly.

Really, if any of these defensive prospects (Dumoulin, Sanguinetti, Borer, Rodney) shows enough ability that they could jump to the big club this year, doesn't that open the discussion about whether we trade Pitkanen to save more money? With Corvo, Gleason, McBain, Babchuk, Carson, Harrison + prospect, I'd have to say the D takes a dive but it probably isn't the end of the world given we're a "non-playoff" competitive team... Just saying. 

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I don't think its so far fetched to think about moving Pitkanen but with all the young kids we'll have to start the season, JR will need someone like Pitkanen to help solidify the top 4.   Now... if the Canes show little to no signs of life heading into the trade deadline, I could easily see him being moved then.

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[quote name='witchking-ch1 wrote:


OBXer']

Samsonov or Cole are two moves that could be made. There is always Babchuk or even some of our young guys if the deal is right. We should know more after training camp starts. Of course we could always just stay as we are and make deals after the season starts.

If we really need to slash payroll, then you have to look at our top salaried guys, not just the ones we wish we could dump. Yes, Cole and Sammy have been debated on this forum for months. I would be surprised if anyone wanted either one of them, but I guess it would be possible for a team that is under payroll to potentially take a chance on Sammy for a low draft pick in return. Given how slow the offseason has been, and given how many UFAs are still out there, I'd say the possibility still exists but the window for it is closing.

The alternative, of course, is to slash payroll with someone who is actually worth what he's being paid. I could certainly see teams showing some interest in either Ruutu or Pitkanen, and while I've been roasted on this board for suggesting it, I still think that Pitkanen could be trade-bait. He's in the final year of his deal, it pays him $4.5m, and if we're going cheap after this season, then the likelihood is that we won't re-sign him. If we're serious about cutting payroll and getting something for Pitkanen before he's priced out of our frugal grasp, then we might see him moved.

Would it make sense from a competitive standpoint? No.

Would it make sense from a "we have to cut payroll" standpoint? Possibly.

Really, if any of these defensive prospects (Dumoulin, Sanguinetti, Borer, Rodney) shows enough ability that they could jump to the big club this year, doesn't that open the discussion about whether we trade Pitkanen to save more money? With Corvo, Gleason, McBain, Babchuk, Carson, Harrison + prospect, I'd have to say the D takes a dive but it probably isn't the end of the world given we're a "non-playoff" competitive team... Just saying. 

Actually I'm one who doesn't believe anyone including the alleged untouchables are out of bounds. I don't think we will trade Ruutu or Pitkanen but you never know. I wouldn't be disappointed if we start the season the way we are now. I think Cole stays. I'm not so sure about Samsonov but only because he looks so far out of place penciled in on the fourth line.  Sammy showed a little of the old magic late last season so I'm willing as a fan to give him a chance. This rumor is also just that and in a time when Hurricane rumors are few and far between it may be the only speculation that can be written about the Canes.  I do think JR has one move left but I just don't have a clue what or who that might involve.

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I really can't see Pitkanen or Ruutu being traded any time soon, unless they bring back something serious in return. But then probably not much salary dumped. At this point, with so many unknowns, those are two pretty solid pieces to lose.

Now if Babchuk and McBain come out and live up to their full potential, then maybe JR could shop Pitkanen later since we would have a load of offensive dmen. Further, if we slip out of contention certainly Pitkanen would be a rental candidate. 

Plus, gotta let Pitkanen play the Helsinki games. Unless we trade him to Minnesota. Just kidding.

Nothing's impossible, but I just don't see it.

Trading Babchuk would not dump much salary, but I could see it given the baggage. My guess is JR wants Babs to light up the lamp a few times, then trade him.

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The Canes organization is loaded to the gills with offensive minded defensemen....throughout the system. Practically every single d-man they have signed is cut from that pattern. It's kind of silly, and ridiculous. If any of those kids looks decent, JR has to think about moving a few of them for some solid defenders. Pits and Ruutu will be trade deadline bait if the team is struggling. But those two will probably have to play an instrumental role for this team to be in the post-season hunt. The teams ranking will play THE role in who is moved at the deadline. Right now, the Canes are loaded with prospects though, especially centers and defensemen.

If Rutherford was looking to simply rid himself of Samsonov, they most likely would have bought him out. I think Sergei stays. And Cole is part of the "family", he's not going to be traded again. I can't see it happening....and who'd want him? He's done absolutely nothing to warrant more than a league minimum salary in 3 years.

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The Canes organization is loaded to the gills with offensive minded defensemen....throughout the system. Practically every single d-man they have signed is cut from that pattern. It's kind of silly, and ridiculous. If any of those kids looks decent, JR has to think about moving a few of them for some solid defenders. Pits and Ruutu will be trade deadline bait if the team is struggling. But those two will probably have to play an instrumental role for this team to be in the post-season hunt. The teams ranking will play THE role in who is moved at the deadline. Right now, the Canes are loaded with prospects though, especially centers and defensemen.

If Rutherford was looking to simply rid himself of Samsonov, they most likely would have bought him out. I think Sergei stays. And Cole is part of the "family", he's not going to be traded again. I can't see it happening....and who'd want him? He's done absolutely nothing to warrant more than a league minimum salary in 3 years.

a buyout doesn't negate spending real money and right now it appears they don't want to spend real money.  we are at the bottom of the cap so that isn't an issue but paying Sammy a few mil NOT to play for us is still a hit in the wallet.

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[quote name='caniac-97 wrote:


TheBigKahuna']The Canes organization is loaded to the gills with offensive minded defensemen....throughout the system. Practically every single d-man they have signed is cut from that pattern. It's kind of silly, and ridiculous. If any of those kids looks decent, JR has to think about moving a few of them for some solid defenders. Pits and Ruutu will be trade deadline bait if the team is struggling. But those two will probably have to play an instrumental role for this team to be in the post-season hunt. The teams ranking will play THE role in who is moved at the deadline. Right now, the Canes are loaded with prospects though, especially centers and defensemen.

If Rutherford was looking to simply rid himself of Samsonov, they most likely would have bought him out. I think Sergei stays. And Cole is part of the "family", he's not going to be traded again. I can't see it happening....and who'd want him? He's done absolutely nothing to warrant more than a league minimum salary in 3 years.

a buyout doesn't negate spending real money and right now it appears they don't want to spend real money.  we are at the bottom of the cap so that isn't an issue but paying Sammy a few mil NOT to play for us is still a hit in the wallet.

Exactly, we would still have to pay 2/3 of his salary and have him on the books for an additional year.  A Samsonov buyout would not have helped us.  

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A buyout could still be in our plans because it could be spread out over two years but like you point out in previous comments at this point it makes more sense to move a higher salary for a lower salary or a young one way contract guy for  prospects and /or future consideration. I think everything will depend on who we decide to add to the roster.  JR has shown in the past he won't hesitate to move prospects if the deal makes sense.

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I still don't savor the thought of going into the season without another top-4 shut down type defenseman.  If nothing changes, we'll see how the current defensive roster pans out.  Particularly playing behind what could be 4 young forwards with very little (maybe even no) NHL experience.  I hope Cam's back is okay.

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Interesting bit found from cane's country about krajcek via broad street hockey

"I'm not sure yet where I'm going to play. I'm negotiating with several teams. Of course we're mostly talking about money. Phoenix, Anaheim and Carolina in particular."

don't really know much about him, but thought it was a bit odd that another D man could be in the mix. Although not sure if the talks he mentioned was before or after corvo.

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Well, he's certainly not the offensive scoring first kind of defenseman the Canes have coveted for the past few years.

I'm not sure he's hte answer to a shut down guy either. The guys career stats look like a Wes Craven novel....scary bad!

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As Lukas put it he's in discussions about money, if the kid had any sense he'd shut up and take whatever's offered. He's lucky anyone wants him.

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I don't think we have much to worry about Karjicek.

"I'm not sure yet where I'm going to play. I'm negotiating with several teams. Of course we're mostly talking about money. Phoenix, Anaheim and
Carolina
in particular."

If they are mostly talking about money, we ain't got it.

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Well to change the subject, anybody think Staal can get back to the 80-point plateau this year?  Bueller....Bueller?

I think it depends on his wingers and health. I think he can do it if he is healthy the whole year. Would be nice given that he is the top guy on the pay roll too laugh.gif need to fill in some of that whitney gap, while rookies will have to fill most of it, Staal needs to have a great year as well if we want to do that and have a successful season.

A long story short, my answer will be yes, 85 points. 30 G 55 A

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I agree with Ichigo. Health and linemates.

Despite some of the fire Staal sometimes draws, I have zero doubt that he is for real. He has the legitimate chops to chase 100 points again.

If I were Staal I would be very glad that I was given the big contract and the captaincy, but not terribly happy that the team will not find me a legitimate first line playmaker to help me reach my full potential. I guess I would have to look at the youngsters and think, well if not this year, then next.

All paths lead to the first line wing void.

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