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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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Ok...dumb question:

What constitutes a face off win in that %

That your team retained the puck or that you initiated the control from the puck drop?

Yes Brindy won lots of faceoffs...but lots of those may have ended in the other team's control...

Thats a great question and I was thinking the exact same thing. What good is winning the draw if your team can't keep possession although I guess if you win the draw, you've given your team the chance to get possession.

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Thats a great question and I was thinking the exact same thing. What good is winning the draw if your team can't keep possession although I guess if you win the draw, you've given your team the chance to get possession.

and it's great to be back, TSA ;)

Thought it was just me...but I've never seen a lot of value to it...to me the "face off" win happens after somebody knocks it out of the drop area/circle...

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Ok...dumb question:

What constitutes a face off win in that %

That your team retained the puck or that you initiated the control from the puck drop?

Yes Brindy won lots of faceoffs...but lots of those may have ended in the other team's control...

Winning a faceoff constitutes gaining control of the puck for your team, so it's the former of your questions. The faceoff win % reflects this.

As far as Brindy goes, he was a master at it. We will miss that, and the point is somebody has to pick up the slack.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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That should be one of Brindy's new assignments-----

gathering all the centers (and people who can

play center) and coaching them on faceoffs on an on-going basis !

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Looking into the effect of winning more faceoffs a couple of points.

Team face-off percentages probably only matter at the extremes since things tend to average out so much in the middle. Thus the top team in the league is estimated to gain about 3 extra wins compared with the bottom team. So, maybe not that massive of an effect.

Clearly though there are games won and lost on gaining possession in key times. The most being faceoffs on the powerplay.

Something obvious that never occurred to me is that it is easier to win draws on the powerplay with the extra player out there, and harder short handed. Thus, a player who takes more draws on the powerplay should have better stats, and one who is more often on the PK should have worse stats. Also, a team that draws more penalties should have a better percentage. I don't know the stats, but this would seem to suggest Staal's percentage is even worse than it appears, which is last, so pretty bad.

I would really argue for someone else at least taking those attacking powerplay faceoffs, even if Staal is out there. And likewise on the PK if Staal is involved. Let him work on his percentage on the other faceoffs.

Even one win can make a difference in this parity driven league.

Edited by remkin

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I guess one could argue that their is no value in the stat. But,I agree with Remkin, only 3 or 4 wins may separate those teams that have the better FO% than those that don't during the regular season. But those are crucial wins, as Remkin stated, in a parity driven league. However, come playoff time, it's a huge part of the game, particularly in a tight series, and in my opinion the importance of the stat is exponentially magnified at that time.

Maybe you just have to be a hockey nerd to get it.......

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I guess one could argue that their is no value in the stat. But,I agree with Remkin, only 3 or 4 wins may separate those teams that have the better FO% than those that don't during the regular season. But those are crucial wins, as Remkin stated, in a parity driven league. However, come playoff time, it's a huge part of the game, particularly in a tight series, and in my opinion the importance of the stat is exponentially magnified at that time.

Maybe you just have to be a hockey nerd to get it.......

I agree there's good value in the faceoff % stat but I'd put way more value on which team maintains the possession after the faceoff is won.

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Good points about the potential faceoff issue. Normally I don't look at the FO % as that important because the diffential is normally not that huge, but with our top two guys gone it has the potential to spell trouble for us this year especially on our already anemic PP and PK.

To lose offensive zone FOs on the PP usually translates to a lot more cleared pucks, wasted effort and time, and on the PK could mean that we get hemmed in way more than needed every time our goalie freezes the puck. I hope Cam and Co. don't let the additional pressure get into their head when things go south.

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With JR saying one or two more NHL experienced players could join training camp and now indicating Skinner has the strength to stick at the NHL level and with Mo saying Sammy is best as a top 6 forward...Yikes...It is going to be a very interesting training camp. It sure has my interest. Almost time to lace em up.

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With JR saying one or two more NHL experienced players could join training camp and now indicating Skinner has the strength to stick at the NHL level and with Mo saying Sammy is best as a top 6 forward...Yikes...It is going to be a very interesting training camp. It sure has my interest. Almost time to lace em up.

Obx'r or anybody got a link to this, I'm out of town and haven't heard this. Thx.

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Obx'r or anybody got a link to this, I'm out of town and haven't heard this. Thx.

Coastal I sent you a PM. I'll pull some of the quotes out and post them.

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Here is the link on Skinner JR reportedly said :“He’s got a very powerful lower body. He has a high skill level. On top of that, he’s so determined. I would suspect, with his determination and the way he plays the game, he’s going to figure out how to make it right in his first year.”

from Bob Wage...Here is Mo talking about Sammy ... Maurice: "I would prefer Sammy play on our first two lines because he has that kind of offensive talent. One advantage he has is that he can play with anybody, at anytime and that's why he gets moved as much as he does. As far as the fourth line, I really don't know"

JR on bringing in NHL experience players to training camp, Rutherford says he anticipates one or two NHL veterans attending training camp, either on a tryout basis or on a two-way contract that he will finalize in the next week or so.

Edited by OBXer

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Obx'r or anybody got a link to this, I'm out of town and haven't heard this. Thx.

its getting late in the game for sammy, hes more like a glorified figure skater,, maybe he will prove me wrong, not physical enough

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and some of you wonder why I hate Mo. If Mo really believes he's a top 2 liner we are screwed or Mo knows we can't spend money while trying to sell the team and he's just trying to make the barebones lineup sound better. Which just makes our management sound like a good old boys club.

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In the contest thread I don't even have Sammy in our starting lineup. But at the end of last year he did start to look like the old Samsonov and he says he is reporting in shape and will be ready to go. Still, Sammy like most our team is a big question mark. It should be an exciting training camp. I just hope it is an exciting season.

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and some of you wonder why I hate Mo. If Mo really believes he's a top 2 liner we are screwed or Mo knows we can't spend money while trying to sell the team and he's just trying to make the barebones lineup sound better. Which just makes our management sound like a good old boys club.

Perhaps Sammy is trading bait, and they are saying "good stuff" about him.

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Back to the faceoff converstion. See the quote from Mo below after being asked this question from Canes Country reporter Bob Wage with Maurice.

Wage: "You're losing one of the top face off guys in the league. Who do you see being the go-to guy in the face off circle this year?"

Maurice: "That's an excellent question. When I look at things that we've lost, I'm not worried about a lot of things, but I am worried about that. Eric Staal has not broken that 50% mark yet and he has to. Clearly that is something that Sutter will have to do, and do well. With our three returning centers in Staal, Sutter, and Dwyer, two of them are not over the 50% mark. It affects your penalty kill, it really affects all aspects of your game. It's one of the things we have to work on in training camp. We'll be dropping a lot of pucks because we have to get them better."

Edited by coastal_caniac

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We all know faceoffs are a concern. I think Sutter will be alright. I'm not sure Staal is ever going to be that good on the faceoff. But any improvement will help. I guess that is the aspect of our potential centermen to watch in training camp.

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Well at least Maurice is admitting the problem, though he certainly understated it.

It was nice to have a Brind'Amour for sure, but all of our other centers are around 50% which is at least average, all of our centers except.....

Again, not to belabor the point, since Eric Staal is by far our best skater, but the man is going into his 7th NHL season. He has had quite a bit of practice with Brind'Amour to study and taken 6 years worth of face-offs and still he ranked dead last in the league. He is the problem on faceoffs. He is not likely to suddenly figure it out. So, while it's nice to admit the problem, I really think that the solution is not "he needs to be better". That's been the solution for 6 years. But up to now Brindy has essentially covered for Staal by winning huge, leaving us about average as a team.

I wonder if this face off thing had anything to do with Staal moving to the wing last year.

Anyway, while it might be a touch embarrassing, I would suggest that Jokinnen take all powerplay and shorthanded draws with Staal starting out on the wing for those plays, maybe even staying there for those plays. Staal takes all draws between the bluelines, and 5 on 5 draws in the attacking zone. This continues until Staal puts up at least 50 faceoffs in a row with at least a 49% win rate. That's a solution.

Now, I've never played organized hockey. If this is a dumb idea I'm ok with it, but I'd like to know why. This year there will be no Brind'Amour to mask the Staal effect on faceoffs. We could move to around last in the league in face offs. This will cost us 1-3 wins. If this team is in contention, it will likely be very close and 1-3 wins could make a big difference.

Edited by remkin

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