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Canes 2010 general off season talk

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5. Pitkanen could be traded. He's making $4.5m per year, is in the last year of his contract, and if this team is really rebuilding in 2010-2011 season, then moving him makes sense. If we re-sign Babchuk and don't trade him, then I think the writing is on the wall. JR could move Joni for a top 4 guy making $3m ($1.5m less than Joni) plus a prospect or 2011 draft pick. If that top 4 guy is signed for 2 or 3 more years at $3m, then even better. This could happen as early as the draft, in my opinion. This would move Gleason - Babchuk into 1st pairing, Carson - Trade 2nd and Harrison - McBain (Rodney/Picard/Borer/etc) into 3rd. Not a great D, but likely considered serviceable... and cheap. If it doesn't happen at the draft, then he'll definitely be moved by the trade deadline unless we're really in the hunt.

Unless you're assuming Babchuk made a huge improvement in his defensive abilities over in Russia, this pairing has disaster written all over it. Babchuk has consistently shown he is shaky at best defensively. Even Gleason can't cover for all the mistakes we'd see from him. 2nd pairing is about as far as I'd go with him, and even that would be a stretch IMO. Harrison as a 2nd pairing guy at this point would also be a reach, leading to further headaches. In no way would I consider that defensive setup "serviceable".

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Sorry, post wasn't clear. Harrison would be 3rd pairing.

1st would be Gleason - Babchuk, or maybe Gleason - Carson, though that's more shutdown... there's not a lot of offense there.

I just think that if we bring back Babs then Joni's days are numbered. He's making $4.5m, he's in the last year of his contract. JR even indicated he got a lot of interest at the trade deadline for Joni. I just don't see us re-signing him given the dollars that will be required, so I expect him to be dealt, possibly as early as the draft. I also mentioned that if we can get a top 4 d-man in return who has 2 or more years on his deal at less cost than Joni's $4.5m that JR would consider pulling the trigger.

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That sounds better. I'd be happy with the shutdown top pairing since it would put Babs in a more reasonable slot. Possibly picking up a top-4 dman as you suggest would relieve some nerves when it comes to the experience of the group. I agree with your point that Pitkanen could go for the right deal. I'd try keeping him myself, but I wouldn't be upset with JR if he found a good return out there for him. It would help with the salary cuts we're trying to make and might make acquiring offensive help at least a tiny bit more possible.

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I just think that if we bring back Babs then Joni's days are numbered. He's making $4.5m, he's in the last year of his contract. JR even indicated he got a lot of interest at the trade deadline for Joni. I just don't see us re-signing him given the dollars that will be required, so I expect him to be dealt, possibly as early as the draft. I also mentioned that if we can get a top 4 d-man in return who has 2 or more years on his deal at less cost than Joni's $4.5m that JR would consider pulling the trigger.

I don't think that happens.....especially not before the draft deadline frenzy. Pitkanen isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The Canes ahve glaring weaknesses at the blueline. Trading away your best defenseman on draft day...is silly.

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[quote name='TheBigKahuna wrote:


witchking-ch1']

I just think that if we bring back Babs then Joni's days are numbered. He's making $4.5m, he's in the last year of his contract. JR even indicated he got a lot of interest at the trade deadline for Joni. I just don't see us re-signing him given the dollars that will be required, so I expect him to be dealt, possibly as early as the draft. I also mentioned that if we can get a top 4 d-man in return who has 2 or more years on his deal at less cost than Joni's $4.5m that JR would consider pulling the trigger.

I don't think that happens.....especially not before the draft deadline frenzy. Pitkanen isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The Canes ahve glaring weaknesses at the blueline. Trading away your best defenseman on draft day...is silly.

Trading Joni. Now if you were trying to get one of the first 2 draft choices maybe. But I don't see Edmonton or Boston biting on Joni and. Joni is nearly 50% of our defense in ice time. Then again stranger things have happened.

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Trade our #1 defenseman?!?!?  In terms of his contract it makes sense, but our defense is already a disaster.  It was a disaster last year, and it looks even worse on paper for next year.  Babchuk is a borderline second pairing guy at best.  Carson doesn't need to be counted on to be more than a third pairing guy.  Harrison is a borderline 7th man bench sitter.  The Hurricanes desperately need another legitimate top four defense-man without trading Pitkanan.

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Chicago is in salary cap HE double hockey sticks. Ladd , and Hjalmarrson are RFA that they might not be able to match a 2M a year offer. Under the compensation rules that would cost the Canes a 2nd round pick for each player.

Would you make that offer for either player?

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Chicago is in salary cap HE double hockey sticks. Ladd , and Hjalmarrson are RFA that they might not be able to match a 2M a year offer. Under the compensation rules that would cost the Canes a 2nd round pick for each player.

Would you make that offer for either player?

If JR could find a way to ditch Cole and or Samsonov....then I think there'd be room for Ladd. Otherwise, no way he takes on another 2 million dollar salary. We're already overpaying for at least 4 players.

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Your assuming he'd want to sign with the team that for all intensive purposes gave up on him. Sure the phrase "change of scenery" was used however it's just the nice way to say it.

However just like he needed a change of scenery from Carolina, he may need another one from Chicago if he's ever going to bloom. He seems to be the odd kid out in that team he may very well never get a chance at the top 2 lines with their depth. If he ever wants to prove himself he'll need to look to a team with no depth. Which could very well be us, but again if it was me I wouldn't return to the team that got rid of me 2-3 years after drafting me. But I hold grudges, not everyone does.

Right now Andrew Ladd is a steal as much as Justin Williams was from Philly for us. There was no room for him there and he came here and thrived ....for a bit.

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Signing Ladd would certainly fit our MO. He probable would accept an offer under 2 mil and that would fit our MO. His age is right. We have the draft choices for compensation. Not sure Ladd would want back in Carolina.

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I wouldnt offer a sheet to either one.  I trade the 7th pick to phx for their 13th and 22nd pick.  I then go to Chicago with the thought of getting Kane.  We pick up Kane for Cole, the 13th pick, and a prospect.  They could buy out huet and they would save a total of 4.8 million out of the deal.  That would allow them to re-sign atleast two of their players.  If Chicago thinks that they are in this offseason, they should just wait to next offseason.  They have Byfuglien, seabrook, and possibly neimi if he goes through arbitration.  Sharp and Veersteeg is the next one after that.  No way they will be able to afford all those over 6 mil players in the next two seasons.  Of course I only do this if we can get rid of Samsonov and then move Larose.   If Brindy retires we make out on the deal and we will have 34.8 million tied up in staal, kane, jokinen, ruutu, sutter, kstop, pitkanen, gleason, harrison, osala, mcbain, tlusty, dwyer and ward.  That is 9.2 million (the 44 mil that JK wants to be) for 8 people to fill the roster.  Might even have room for Whitney in their.  The D wouldnt be very good but we could have some serious first 2 O lines with Whitney-Staal-Kane, Ruutu-Sutter-Jokinen.  D will obviously be the focus in the draft. 

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I wouldnt offer a sheet to either one.  I trade the 7th pick to phx for their 13th and 22nd pick.  I then go to Chicago with the thought of getting Kane.  We pick up Kane for Cole, the 13th pick, and a prospect.  They could buy out huet and they would save a total of 4.8 million out of the deal.  That would allow them to re-sign atleast two of their players.

I'm baffled by your thought process on this. If I were Chicago's GM I'd hang up on you immediately.

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[quote name='legend-1 wrote:


gocanes0506']I wouldnt offer a sheet to either one.  I trade the 7th pick to phx for their 13th and 22nd pick.  I then go to Chicago with the thought of getting Kane.  We pick up Kane for Cole, the 13th pick, and a prospect.  They could buy out huet and they would save a total of 4.8 million out of the deal.  That would allow them to re-sign atleast two of their players.

I'm baffled by your thought process on this. If I were Chicago's GM I'd hang up on you immediately.C'mon man, isnt it obvious this guy is just trying to mock us here and stir up trouble?  Have you read his other stuff?

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[quote name='legend-1 wrote:


gocanes0506']I wouldnt offer a sheet to either one.  I trade the 7th pick to phx for their 13th and 22nd pick.  I then go to Chicago with the thought of getting Kane.  We pick up Kane for Cole, the 13th pick, and a prospect.  They could buy out huet and they would save a total of 4.8 million out of the deal.  That would allow them to re-sign atleast two of their players.

I'm baffled by your thought process on this. If I were Chicago's GM I'd hang up on you immediately.

well good thing your not.  They dont have very many options.

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I trade the 7th pick to phx for their 13th and 22nd pick.  I then go to Chicago with the thought of getting Kane.  We pick up Kane for Cole, the 13th pick, and a prospect.    
A_laughing_matter.gif

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With all this talk about dumping salary and not being very active in the FA market, I can't figure if JR just has a lot of confidence in the young guys,or he thinks the All Star Game will carry attendence all year. We have some potential All Stars, and it would be a real shame to waste a year of their careers by going cheap.

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With all this talk about dumping salary and not being very active in the FA market, I can't figure if JR just has a lot of confidence in the young guys,or he thinks the All Star Game will carry attendence all year. We have some potential All Stars, and it would be a real shame to waste a year of their careers by going cheap.
I actually think you hit the nail on the head. I think they'll go "bargain" (a friendlier word than cheap? ha ha) and assume that the All Star game will help season tickets. JR even warned at his post-season press conference that the turn-around would not be swift. I know some of the folks on this board believe it can be, with the right triggers, but I don't see those triggers falling into place.

This team will be built around the players that we have signed (and whom we cannot move -- i.e., Cole, Rod) and youth. Where possible, JR will pick up someone for under $2m per season to fill a hole here or there. He *might* (as I mentioned above) consider moving Pitkanen if we can get a top 4 d-man in return who makes less than Joni. That's my opinion. I know others don't share it.

Frankly, I see 2010-2011 as a "tweener" season. We're going to see the last of the "old" era (Cole, Rod playing their last) and the beginning of the "new" era (Boychuk, Bowman, Tlusty, etc).

If the old guys continue to struggle and if the young guys aren't quite ready for 82 games, then this team will languish near the bottom of the standings again.

If the old guys can find one more good year in them, if the guys in a contract year (LaRose, Juice) can put up big numbers, and if there are more Sutters among the Rats, then this team could surprise.

What I don't see is JR spending big bucks on tipping the balance. There aren't big bucks to be found in the budget.

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Here's something that could be interesting...TSN reporting that Patrick O'Sullivan may be bought out by the Oilers...http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=324612

Same size as Whitney, he can play both wings (and I think Center). His plus/minus was terrible last year, but look who he played for...only 25 and has all the makings of a 50+ point guy.

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I meant to say his was terrible. 34 pts on the year in 72 games, which is not great but the Oil was so incredibly bad, you really cannot judge the kid on those stats.

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Here's something that could be interesting...TSN reporting that Patrick O'Sullivan may be bought out by the Oilers...http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=324612

Same size as Whitney, he can play both wings (and I think Center). His plus/minus was terrible last year, but look who he played for...only 25 and has all the makings of a 50+ point guy.

O'Sullivan would appear to be relatively affordable if he is bought out. That would work well with JR's annual "under the radar" pickup.

Also, Lebrun's article on ESPN about free agency brought up another interesting name. Tomas Kaberle. Toronto's asking for a top 6 forward in return. Cole's technically a top-6 guy right (even if he may not fit that role on this team)? Kaberle could be a really good choice for top-4 dman acquired via a trade (as was mentioned at some point by JR). Anyone think something like that might have a chance of happening? My guess is that it might take a pick or prospect on our end to satisfy the Leafs.

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JT was a -35 and is being bought out by the Oilers. If he's not good enough for the Oilers of all teams.....then...

That and he's got family issues in NC and didn't want to play for us because he want's to be as far away from his family as possible. Well...Dad specifically.

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[quote name='witchking-ch1 wrote:


caniac6']With all this talk about dumping salary and not being very active in the FA market, I can't figure if JR just has a lot of confidence in the young guys,or he thinks the All Star Game will carry attendence all year. We have some potential All Stars, and it would be a real shame to waste a year of their careers by going cheap.

Frankly, I see 2010-2011 as a "tweener" season. We're going to see the last of the "old" era (Cole, Rod playing their last) and the beginning of the "new" era (Boychuk, Bowman, Tlusty, etc).

If the old guys continue to struggle and if the young guys aren't quite ready for 82 games, then this team will languish near the bottom of the standings again.

You may be right, but you better not be. If there is any sanity in JR's bones (and I think there is a lot of it) then last year was clearly the last gasp of the "old" era. If we go with the old guys again, we WILL languish near the bottom. In fact, it would probably play out exactly like last year. Slow start, struggle, then finally make the move to youth, resurge, miss the playoffs but only get a mid round pick. 

Just say NO!!! The cup team is gone. Brindy has no value left on the ice. Move on. I wouldn't sign Whitney unless he is on one year at low second line money. Sammy must go to make room. Cole...if possible, but probably stays.

We can have a tweener year, but not with the old guard. The tweener  year would be to make room for 2-3 top 9 forwards as kids, and carefully selected mid range vets to balance them out, in my world Cullen and a value playmaking winger here to fore unnamed. Then, the likes of Boychuk, Tlusty, Dalphe, Connolly (see what I did there?) would be ready to take the mantle the following year.

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[quote name='remkin wrote:


witchking-ch1 wrote:

caniac6']With all this talk about dumping salary and not being very active in the FA market, I can't figure if JR just has a lot of confidence in the young guys,or he thinks the All Star Game will carry attendence all year. We have some potential All Stars, and it would be a real shame to waste a year of their careers by going cheap.

Frankly, I see 2010-2011 as a "tweener" season.
We're going to see the last of the "old" era
(Cole, Rod playing their last) and the beginning of the "new" era (Boychuk, Bowman, Tlusty, etc).

If the old guys continue to struggle and if the young guys aren't quite ready for 82 games, then this team will languish near the bottom of the standings again.

You may be right, but you better not be. If there is any sanity in JR's bones (and I think there is a lot of it) then last year was clearly the last gasp of the "old" era. If we go with the old guys again, we WILL languish near the bottom. In fact, it would probably play out exactly like last year. Slow start, struggle, then finally make the move to youth, resurge, miss the playoffs but only get a mid round pick. 

Just say NO!!! The cup team is gone. Brindy has no value left on the ice. Move on. I wouldn't sign Whitney unless he is on one year at low second line money. Sammy must go to make room. Cole...if possible, but probably stays.

We can have a tweener year, but not with the old guard. The tweener  year would be to make room for 2-3 top 9 forwards as kids, and carefully selected mid range vets to balance them out, in my world Cullen and a value playmaking winger here to fore unnamed. Then, the likes of Boychuk, Tlusty, Dalphe, Connolly (see what I did there?) would be ready to take the mantle the following year.
All that "firepower" with no defense?  Pucks in net ....our own.  

  

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