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Ref107

Q & A with 107

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I'm guessing the refs have to stay in good physical condition in order to keep up with the play of the game (accept for Magoo of course). Do you have any special training or workout that you do to help you on the ice? Any idea what the NHL refs do?

At the NHL level and pro levels this is an absolute must and they do go through strict exercise plans. I know the NHL officials work out both before and after the game. They also follow strict meal plans for their days of work.

As for me, I do not follow anything special. I've been known to go to Montana's and eat a steak or ribs and fries before games. Fortunatley I'm a pretty good skater and can keep up with the guys I referee. To give you an idea of my skating ability, the average 16 year old player, if he were to skate his fastest forward, I could probably outskate him going backwords. Practice really does make perfect, and being on the ice 3-5 hours 29 times a month ha really helped me out. To be honest, I firmly believe I should be about 300 pounds, but with the skating I do, I'm no where close to that. I love chicken, and I eat out quite a bit. More than I should and the amount of pop I drink is crazy (I was at 6 litres a day of coca cola in the summer but have cut down to about 2 now). If I sat around doing nothing, I'd be that weight though.

Oh, and at the NHL level, the majority of officials can outskate any player. I know Scapinello was an amazing skater and could beat all those players on icing calls.

Imagine the condition they had to be in before there were two guys in orange on the ice.

Oh, and Marcus... practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. If you practice "it" (whatever it is) wrong, by definition you can only be "perfectly wrong". I digress...

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This is an amazing thread. I have learned a great deal from reading the post and your answers (read all of them actually).

Keep up the good work! :D

This has gone much better than I thought.

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Okay, don't know if there are any official stats on this, or how much info YOU have access to that isn't displayed on the board...

Do you have an idea of the geographical percentages of members here? Like the % that are from North Carolina? Other states in the U.S., Canadian users, etc. Any sort of odd observations of that nature? Also, the male/female ratio? I've noticed we have several ladies on the board here.

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Okay, don't know if there are any official stats on this, or how much info YOU have access to that isn't displayed on the board...

Do you have an idea of the geographical percentages of members here? Like the % that are from North Carolina? Other states in the U.S., Canadian users, etc. Any sort of odd observations of that nature? Also, the male/female ratio? I've noticed we have several ladies on the board here.

All I have is my best guess from stats like IP numbers and random checks. That and emails. I see several University emails from NC and accounts that are clearly from NC, so I'd say the majority of users are from around NC. There is the odd Canadian user, and the very odd over seas one. As for gender, we don't even have the gender icon in profiles here so its hard to give an estimate here. It would be no better than your estimate.

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Ref107, that was an over and above the call of duty answer to my question! Thanks for taking the time to give such an in-depth response. Bravo! :thumbup:

PS: If you (or anyone else from wayyyyy out of town) ever wants to attend a Canes game, I'd be glad to pick up tickets / arrange lodging etc. I'm only 10 minutes from the arena. :D

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This has been the most remarkable thread! I think that even for long time board members, there has been something - at least one something - new to learn. I have found it all interesting and enlightening. I think the most humorous was the section about the refs and the chatter that goes on. I got a big kick out of that. I think it is way too easy for us as observers to heap ten tons of abuse on the game officials and forget that they are acutely aware of the mood on the ice, stuff going on between and among the players, etc that is not evident even in seats 2 rows off the ice.

Aha - that brings me to my next query.... much of the violence in the game brews itself up to the boiling point. Little infractions here and there during a game that ends up going Vesuvius. Could you speak to this? what refs see unfolding as the soap opera or "drama" within each game that often leads to retaliations that make the video highlights?

Thanks! :-=

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This has been the most remarkable thread! I think that even for long time board members, there has been something - at least one something - new to learn. I have found it all interesting and enlightening. I think the most humorous was the section about the refs and the chatter that goes on. I got a big kick out of that. I think it is way too easy for us as observers to heap ten tons of abuse on the game officials and forget that they are acutely aware of the mood on the ice, stuff going on between and among the players, etc that is not evident even in seats 2 rows off the ice.

Aha - that brings me to my next query.... much of the violence in the game brews itself up to the boiling point. Little infractions here and there during a game that ends up going Vesuvius. Could you speak to this? what refs see unfolding as the soap opera or "drama" within each game that often leads to retaliations that make the video highlights?

Thanks! :-=

Oh, this is such a common problem, and sometimes the official loses control of a game, and sometimes there is nothing they can do to stop it going out of control.

I'll use my famous game from last year that I tell stories on to other officials. I was refereeing a Midge Junior game, which is roughly 17 year olds. We play 10-10-12 stop time so games take generally about an hour to play. Well, mine took 40 minutes. The reaction I always get is how the hell did you do a Miget Junior game in 40 minutes and to that I respond with, the 40 minutes was actually just the first period. Yes, it took me 40 minutes to referee 1 ten minute period. The second wasn't much better, about 35 minutes. It all started off as I dropped the puck at centre ice. The defence man comes in full speed and cross checks the centre right in the face. A fight started. Broke it all up, ejected 3 players, and matched the idiot for attempted injure. Now that was the begining of hell. By end of first I had 3 players from the same team gone for checking from behind, about 2 misconducts on players for verbally abusing me after getting a penalty and god only knows how many minor penalties, along with another fight. That was only the first period. The thing I remember most about that game is standing at centre ice with my linesmen and asking them to go to the time keeper and have him fix the clock to show the 3rd period, as it only showed 2. I honestly believed we were in the 2nd period already. To that he laughs and says ummm Marcus, we just finished the 1st. The 3rd period went quickly though. I had 3/4 of each team thrown out. No more people left to cause trouble.

So what it all boils down to, is sometimes no matter what, you are going to have horrible games like this. This got out of hand the moment I dropped the puck. I tried talking to the coaches, I tried talking to the captains, and I even went to each bench and yelled at them. None of it worked. I later found out that these two teams had a serious issue last time they played, and no one bothered to inform me.

The worst games that I see are as linesmen. Sometimes, more often than I'd like to admit, serious calls like hits from behind and checks to the head aren't called. This is where that slow motion sickening feeling comes into play. You are just waiting for the gloves to drop or someone to get injured. I've had games where I'll be the back linesmen and play will be in the far endzone with two lone players way back. Suddenly one turns and they skate at each other. You see it happening, and it all looks so slow, but you seem slow and so far away as well. Having to cross the ice isn't the smartest thing in the world, but its needed sometimes. The only thing I've felt worse was the bench brawl. Seeing everyone hop the boards, and move together was not fun. Knowing its going to take 20-30 minutes just to break it up and then another 45 to figure out penalties, doesn' make you happy.

I wasn't 100% sure the exact question you wanted answered, and I tried my best in this answer. If I'm not answering your question, reply back and give me some more direction and I'll get it answered for you definately.

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I think it is way too easy for us as observers to heap ten tons of abuse on the game officials and forget that they are acutely aware of the mood on the ice, stuff going on between and among the players, etc that is not evident even in seats 2 rows off the ice.

As one fellow official correctly stated, "anyone can sit in the stands and call the game. Even a donkey. But it takes some special skills and dedication to be able to do it from ice level, especially with the speed of the game, the pucks flying at you, and the body checks you have to avoid".

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Okay, Marcus: how is it decided where face-offs will be, esp. when they're not at either center ice or in the circles?

I don't have time to answer this now as I have a tournament I need to attend. However, while many of you will feel its an easy answer, I assure you its not. There are many factors that go into answering this and I'll go into detail when I get back.

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Okay, Marcus: how is it decided where face-offs will be, esp. when they're not at either center ice or in the circles?

I'll try to cover everything so that everyone can find out. First I'll do the "unofficial" version, though the one we use most often.

Unofficial Version:

Avoid having the refere near the benches in rough games wheres a lot of emotion is involved. This prevents misconducts being given out for small stuff. If the referee doesn't hear it, unless its really bad it won't be called. For the end zone face offs, we try as much as possible to keep the referee on the side across from the benches. During line changes, its hard to get past everyone safely and quickly, so we try to keep him away from the traffic. Allows for better positioning.

Official Version:

End Zones:

The face off is determined in a few different ways and it depends on what happened. If its a scramble, the side the goalie covers it on is the side we face off on. When the shot comes in and the goalie immediately covers it, its taken from the side the puck is shot on, regardless of where the goalie covers it, however if the goalie drops it and then covers it, ie. possible rebound but covered before the rebound occurs, it goes on the side the goalie covered it on.

Other factors include penalties. If the offending team gets a penalty, the puck comes outside the end to a neutral zone face off spot on the side the penalty occured (though this can be over ridden by the unofficial version). Furthermore, if a gathering occurs without penalties, but a forward comes in, the face off is taken outside in the neutral zone.

Face offs will also occure in the end zone any time the puck is shot out of play by a defending player, however the face off is where the puck was shot from...exactly, but in line with a face off dot. So image a line going from one dot in the end zone to the other ends end zone dot. Face offs take place along that invisible line always.

Neutral zone face offs take place on offsides, based on where the player with the puck was. Not the player who was offside. It will also be moved to those neutral zone dots if an attacking player shoots the puck out of play or freezes it along the boards, or gets a penalty.

If play is stopped in the neutral zone for a penalty, the face off occurs where play was stopped along that magical invisible line.

Also in regards to end zone face offs, on icings, the face off will take place at the end zone circle on the side the puck was shot from, not the side the puck ends up on. Exceptions to this are if the linesmen call an icing by mistake (team is actually shorthanded), the face off comes to centre ice.

Centre ice face offs occur after goals, start of periods, and mistake on icing by linesmen.

Basic rule of thumb to make things simple, is face off goes where play was stopped, unless the offending team gains an advantage.

Hope this helped.

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Marcus, I asked this question to Chuck Kaiton. He'd said he'll answer for me on the 6th against the NYI 2nd intermission..however, I've read the NHL Rulebook and I cannot find it anywhere. Hopefully you can answer this one..its getting on my nerves because I cannot find it. I cant wait that long

"With the new NHL rules if a player shoots the puck out of play (undeflected

of course) in his defensive zone it is a penalty, regardless if it was intentional or not. Now, what if a defensive player attempts to bat down a flying puck and it goes out of play, undeflected, in his defensive zone, is

that a penalty as well?"

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Marcus, I asked this question to Chuck Kaiton. He'd said he'll answer for me on the 6th against the NYI 2nd intermission..however, I've read the NHL Rulebook and I cannot find it anywhere. Hopefully you can answer this one..its getting on my nerves because I cannot find it. I cant wait that long

"With the new NHL rules if a player shoots the puck out of play (undeflected

of course) in his defensive zone it is a penalty, regardless if it was intentional or not. Now, what if a defensive player attempts to bat down a flying puck and it goes out of play, undeflected, in his defensive zone, is

that a penalty as well?"

Will an answer from an NHL Offficial be ok? :-p

I will try to explain this the best I can with out making it confusing. First, the puck has to be shot, and anytime it goes out OVER the glass it is a penalty. If the puck goes into the players box it is not a penalty, with the exception of when it goes over the side glass and then over the side bench glass and ends up in the bench...this would be a penalty. This really only applies when the puck is shot from down deep in the corner on the bench side.

I hope this helps clear it up.

Take care

Tom Kowal

NHL Referee

So no, it wouldn't be a penalty as the defensive team never shot it.

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How is it determined which ref will go to which game? Is there a rotation thing?

In the NHL, referee's move about so that no team faces the same referee too often. Of course in the playoffs, a lot of officials are cut and you therefore may see the same ones often. The linesmen are usually given four or five rinks where they move around to and they are generally in the same area. Eg. Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Buffalo. They usually work with the same few officials. Of course if someone gets injured things can change.

In my leauges, we have an assigner who assigns us games. We have a set amount of rinks that need games filled. We are graded based on our skill level and availability. Its just more of a location thing. They try to keep you close to home as much as possible and the more availability you give, the closer to home you usually stay. There isn't really a set rotation though. More of the assigner puts you where he wants.

Another great question!

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Ok, what is in it for Marcus? (other than free skating of course 8) )

And what would be your next progression/promotion to ref "higher" or different Leagues, like after a number of total years or taking more tests, etc? Assuming that you would want to or could of course.

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Ok, what is in it for Marcus? (other than free skating of course 8) )

And what would be your next progression/promotion to ref "higher" or different Leagues, like after a number of total years or taking more tests, etc? Assuming that you would want to or could of course.

Well I could get my level four. I'm currently a three and there are six levels. But with testing for policing coming up, and interviews and school work and stuff, I don't think I'll be doing it...atleast for a few years.

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Ok, what is in it for Marcus? (other than free skating of course 8) )

And what would be your next progression/promotion to ref "higher" or different Leagues, like after a number of total years or taking more tests, etc? Assuming that you would want to or could of course.

Well I could get my level four. I'm currently a three and there are six levels. But with testing for policing coming up, and interviews and school work and stuff, I don't think I'll be doing it...atleast for a few years.

So we won't be making "Pull McGoo, put in Marcus" signs just yet?

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Ok, what is in it for Marcus? (other than free skating of course 8) )

And what would be your next progression/promotion to ref "higher" or different Leagues, like after a number of total years or taking more tests, etc? Assuming that you would want to or could of course.

Well I could get my level four. I'm currently a three and there are six levels. But with testing for policing coming up, and interviews and school work and stuff, I don't think I'll be doing it...atleast for a few years.

So we won't be making "Pull McGoo, put in Marcus" signs just yet?

HAHA, I'm afraid not. Last nights game vs. Norway was a tough game for me. I got speared in the stomach by a player accidentally when I rushed into the net to prevent a fight. Sent me flying several feet in the air.

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