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colliefan

Training Camp 2010

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This whole Skinner thing...I have two words for you...Brandon Sutter. He spent a year on the 4th line instead of going back to juniors and got half a year of good experience before the concussion issues, then got sent to Albany when eligible (not an option with Skinner). 4th line time isn't garbage time, its valuable experience playing a role and spending time in and around the big show. Would Sutter have had the year he did last year if he went back to juniors the year before? I doubt it. I have to believe JR is thinking the same thing with Skinner, even though Skinner is a year younger at the same point. I don't really see much downside, unless he really isn't ready, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Edited by JLP

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This whole Skinner thing...I have two words for you...Brandon Sutter. He spent a year on the 4th line instead of going back to juniors and got half a year of good experience before the concussion issues, then got sent to Albany when eligible (not an option with Skinner). 4th line time isn't garbage time, its valuable experience playing a role and spending time in and around the big show. Would Sutter have had the year he did last year if he went back to juniors the year before? I doubt it. I have to believe JR is thinking the same thing with Skinner, even though Skinner is a year younger at the same point. I don't really see much downside, unless he really isn't ready, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I believe Sutter went back to Red Deer and played another season there after being drafted, getting in a few games with the Rats at the end. He toiled on the 4th line producing very little the next year. Then started last year in the AHL before getting called up and having a break out year.

Based on that, Skinner would be sent back to juniors this year. But then Sutter never put up 70 goals in juniors either.

Edited by remkin

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Found this article from Brian LeBlanc giving the chances of our current players making the final roster cut. There are some interesting comments in here, but draw your own conclusions.

Who Will Make the Canes Roster

Great find. Despite the implications for my contest picks, I think this guy is dead on.

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Per Chip Alexander, here is the lines they are working with today…

O’Sullivan/Staal /Cole

Bowman/ Sutter/Ruutu

Skinner/ Jokinen/ LaRose

Tlusty/ Dalpe alt with Dwyer/Kostopoulos

Corvo/Gleason

Pitkanen/Babchuk

McBain/Harrison

My guess is that this is what we’ll see on Wednesday night. And, based on performance in the next two preseason games, what we are likely looking at as opening night lineup.

Hope that Dalpe wins that battle at 4th line center. He brings more to the table than Dwyer in my opinion. Dwyer is a quintessential versatile 13th forward who should only be inserted into lineup due to injury.

Not sure what happens when Samsonov comes back. Does Bowman drop down to battle with Tlusty for 4th line left wing slot? In my opinion, you do not need both Tlusty and Samsonov in the lineup as they bring pretty much the same game.

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Per Chip Alexander, here is the lines they are working with today…

O’Sullivan/Staal /Cole

Bowman/ Sutter/Ruutu

Skinner/ Jokinen/ LaRose

Tlusty/ Dalpe alt with Dwyer/Kostopoulos

Corvo/Gleason

Pitkanen/Babchuk

McBain/Harrison

My guess is that this is what we’ll see on Wednesday night. And, based on performance in the next two preseason games, what we are likely looking at as opening night lineup.

Hope that Dalpe wins that battle at 4th line center. He brings more to the table than Dwyer in my opinion. Dwyer is a quintessential versatile 13th forward who should only be inserted into lineup due to injury.

Not sure what happens when Samsonov comes back. Does Bowman drop down to battle with Tlusty for 4th line left wing slot? In my opinion, you do not need both Tlusty and Samsonov in the lineup as they bring pretty much the same game.

O'Sullivan gets his chance to shine! Shine on!

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Found this article from Brian LeBlanc giving the chances of our current players making the final roster cut. There are some interesting comments in here, but draw your own conclusions.

Who Will Make the Canes Roster

Good article! So, would you trade Boychuk for more defensive depth, and who would that defensive depth be?

This article clearly states that we do not have a NHL ready / caliber 6th defenseman.

Edited by rocheccw

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Per Chip Alexander, here is the lines they are working with today…

O’Sullivan/Staal /Cole

Bowman/ Sutter/Ruutu

Skinner/ Jokinen/ LaRose

Tlusty/ Dalpe alt with Dwyer/Kostopoulos

Corvo/Gleason

Pitkanen/Babchuk

McBain/Harrison

My guess is that this is what we’ll see on Wednesday night. And, based on performance in the next two preseason games, what we are likely looking at as opening night lineup.

Hope that Dalpe wins that battle at 4th line center. He brings more to the table than Dwyer in my opinion. Dwyer is a quintessential versatile 13th forward who should only be inserted into lineup due to injury.

Not sure what happens when Samsonov comes back. Does Bowman drop down to battle with Tlusty for 4th line left wing slot? In my opinion, you do not need both Tlusty and Samsonov in the lineup as they bring pretty much the same game.

Just goes to show you how Bowman must have wowed in camp. I think Sammy goes back in the top-6. Mo's all ready stated that's where he wants him. Tlusty was a wild card for me because of his knee. Sounds like he's ready to go.

That battle between Dwyer and Dalpe might be a good one, but my bet is on Dwyer just because of his experience. But hey, I'm wrong all the time.

Wonder what they are doing with Boychuk? I think he may have some confidence issues and needs to go back to Charlotte and take his game up down there.

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Good article! So, would you trade Boychuk for more defensive depth, and who would that defensive depth be?

This article clearly states that we do not have a NHL ready / caliber 6th defenseman.

Just jumping in here, but I would not trade Boychuk for a defenseman unless that defenseman had the perfect blend of shut down and enforcer. I think we do have an NHL ready 6th dman named Carson.

Unless a GM is out there licking their chops due to Boychuk's potential, he will have to show something before he will be worth much. I would give him one more send down. Now if a GM really covets Boychuk, we do have too many wingers and right now Bowman is showing more, so he is expendable. I guess I'm saying only if we get the right deal.

I am starting to doubt myself, but I still think Boychuk has the skills.

Edited by remkin

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Good article! So, would you trade Boychuk for more defensive depth, and who would that defensive depth be?

This article clearly states that we do not have a NHL ready / caliber 6th defenseman.

I agree with about 80% of what the author said in that article.

As for Boychuk....I'd offer him up with Babchuk or Borer for a solid Gleason type defender.

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I've gone on record as not being a huge Boychuk fan, but I think its way too early to give up on him. I'd like to see what he can do in Charlotte before we package him up in a trade. Besides, what will we get coming back? But then again, I believe there are a few teams out there with some cap issues. Regardless of what happens to Boychuk, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see JR add some defensive depth.

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No one will ever confuse me as a Boychuk fan. I thought it was a bad draft pick, and have yet to see anything that warranted using a 1st round pick on the kid. I'd trade him tomorrow for a stay at homer. We've got small/skill player covered to infinty.

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I believe Sutter went back to Red Deer and played another season there after being drafted, getting in a few games with the Rats at the end. He toiled on the 4th line producing very little the next year. Then started last year in the AHL before getting called up and having a break out year.

Based on that, Skinner would be sent back to juniors this year. But then Sutter never put up 70 goals in juniors either.

To clarify, I was referring to the 19 YO Sutter vs. the 18 YO Skinner, assuming Skinner is a year ahead on the development scale. At 18, Sutter had skills but hadn't developed enough yet for the NHL, which is why he went back to RD that first year. In other words, keeping Skinner this year is similar to the decision JR made to keep Sutter 2 years ago. My point is that a year in the NHL on the 4th line (if that's where he ends up) isn't necessarily a waste of Skinner's talents.

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To clarify, I was referring to the 19 YO Sutter vs. the 18 YO Skinner, assuming Skinner is a year ahead on the development scale. At 18, Sutter had skills but hadn't developed enough yet for the NHL, which is why he went back to RD that first year. In other words, keeping Skinner this year is similar to the decision JR made to keep Sutter 2 years ago. My point is that a year in the NHL on the 4th line (if that's where he ends up) isn't necessarily a waste of Skinner's talents.

I have always found that an interesting debate. I think Chad LaRose is a good example of the "get on the 4th line and grind, find your NHL speed and power, then take advantage of injuries and move up" argument. You get exposure the the speed and intensity of the NHL and get looks here and there at higher lines.

On the other hand, it's hard to develope much offensively playing limited minutes with guys who are not really trying to create offense. So while there is a drop in talent, the talent is still pretty good in the AHL and playing first line minutes and with other offensive guys makes more sense for the vast majority of offensively talented kids.

But what of Juniors? There the speed and talent is dropped off even more. A guy like Skinner has already domintated that level utterly. Agree, Sutter did not, but still, Sutter did spend an extra year in Jrs and turned out pretty well. (I also see you point about Sutter basically scrapping for a year in the NHL, then turning it up on the scoring the next year).

It seems pretty definite Skinner is getting his tryout. The other factor is the contract if he plays more than 9 games. While the argument can be made for keeping him even if he doesn't produce (to just grind out a year like Sutter did), it is ultimately not worth giving up a year on his entry contract to do that. Thus, even though it is not crazy to let him grind on the 4th line, I still think he only sticks if he is creating offense.

If I had to guess though, I bet he does create offense, and sticks for the whole year. At that point look for JR to move someone (or two or three).

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Per Chip Alexander, here is the lines they are working with today…

O’Sullivan/Staal /Cole

Bowman/ Sutter/Ruutu

Skinner/ Jokinen/ LaRose

Tlusty/ Dalpe alt with Dwyer/Kostopoulos

Corvo/Gleason

Pitkanen/Babchuk

McBain/Harrison

My guess is that this is what we’ll see on Wednesday night. And, based on performance in the next two preseason games, what we are likely looking at as opening night lineup.

Hope that Dalpe wins that battle at 4th line center. He brings more to the table than Dwyer in my opinion. Dwyer is a quintessential versatile 13th forward who should only be inserted into lineup due to injury.

Not sure what happens when Samsonov comes back. Does Bowman drop down to battle with Tlusty for 4th line left wing slot? In my opinion, you do not need both Tlusty and Samsonov in the lineup as they bring pretty much the same game.

Cole on the #1 Line :facepalm2::bangHead::pullhair:

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I have always found that an interesting debate. I think Chad LaRose is a good example of the "get on the 4th line and grind, find your NHL speed and power, then take advantage of injuries and move up" argument. You get exposure the the speed and intensity of the NHL and get looks here and there at higher lines.

Exactly. Split shifts, chemistry, injuries can all lead to more playing time, if warranted. Plus there's something to be said just for time spent on the road with the team, spending time with the NHL-level coaches and getting used to the atmosphere. A lot to take in for an 18 year old.

On the other hand, it's hard to develope much offensively playing limited minutes with guys who are not really trying to create offense. So while there is a drop in talent, the talent is still pretty good in the AHL and playing first line minutes and with other offensive guys makes more sense for the vast majority of offensively talented kids.

[...] It seems pretty definite Skinner is getting his tryout. The other factor is the contract if he plays more than 9 games. While the argument can be made for keeping him even if he doesn't produce (to just grind out a year like Sutter did), it is ultimately not worth giving up a year on his entry contract to do that. Thus, even though it is not crazy to let him grind on the 4th line, I still think he only sticks if he is creating offense. If I had to guess though, I bet he does create offense, and sticks for the whole year. At that point look for JR to move someone (or two or three).

Yep, if he were eligible for the AHL it would be a different ballgame. And if his offensive skills needed more development, that would be a stronger argument for going back to juniors. But it sounds like he's good there. Playing in the NHL should give him time to develop his all around game, which is what a scorer like Skinner usually needs to work on.

The other thing to consider is the RFA time period clock is ticking regardless of where he goes. So if he's capable, you get an extra low-cost year out of him, even if it does eat one year of the entry level contract.

Also, don't forget, Sutter was what...6-3" or 6-4" and weighed about 170 pounds when he was drafted. Skinner is several inches shorter and already outweighs Sutter. That does account for a lot.

That's my point on Sutter vs. Skinner...even in his first year up, Sutter needed more physical development. He could still probably use an extra 20 pounds or so, although they are listing him 1 or 2 inches taller than he really is. Skinner (as listed) is the same height as LaRose with 10+ pounds, so he should hold up.

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The other thing to consider is the RFA time period clock is ticking regardless of where he goes. So if he's capable, you get an extra low-cost year out of him, even if it does eat one year of the entry level contract.

I don't think that is right about the ELC or getting an extra year out of him. If Skinner gets sent back to Jrs before his 10th game his ELC is deferred until next year. The way I understand it, the contract can be deferred up to two years in his case because of his age. After that he'd be a 20 year old and eligible to play in the AHL.

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According to the Canes, they have assigned Zach Boychuk to the Checkers. See the following press release: Boychuk Assigned to Charlotte

I can't see I find that a big surprise. Bowman's surprising camp, the acquisition of O'Sullivan and Skinner's improving play made him the odd man out. Considering most had all ready penciled him in the lineup coming into camp, it has to be a ding to his confidence. Hopefully he can take it in stride and realize what it takes to be a pro at the NHL level.

Maybe he will grow some too.

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I don't think that is right about the ELC or getting an extra year out of him. If Skinner gets sent back to Jrs before his 10th game his ELC is deferred until next year. The way I understand it, the contract can be deferred up to two years in his case because of his age. After that he'd be a 20 year old and eligible to play in the AHL.

Yeah, had to look it up...I was wrong...it's not just age it's years of pro experience, with the 10 game rule determining that. I thought the free agency clock started ticking based on age alone.

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With Boychuk being sent down today and Sammy not likely ready to play, it looks like the roster is now set for the big trip. I hope Boychuk goes to Charlotte and lights the world on fire because he'll be among the first to be called up when the inevitable injury bug hits. Or maybe JR will stay true to his plan of rotating the young kids in and out.

I feel kind of bad for Sammy and wonder if he's suffering some concussion symptoms to go along with his sprained neck. I really hope we don't need to have a board get well thread BEFORE the season even starts.

I have no problem with Jeff Skinner playing on the third line because he'll have some time to get his feet underneath him before having to match up against the Ovechkins and Crosby's of the league. I would guess that if he stated to look out of place on that third line, he'll be moved up accordingly. Jussi will be a great center for him but I'd much rather see Jussi in the top 6. I bet we'll see lots of Jussi on special teams to make up for his lost minutes.

So which of the young kids will step up and make their mark on the trip? I think Dalpe has looked the strongest and most consistent so far among the forwards.

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So who thinks Skinner is just here for 9 games vs. full season? I'm kinda hoping the latter...

Probably 9 games.

He's a small guy and the taste of these every day phyical NHL D-Men are going to be a rude awakening for him

He hasn't experiened this yet. :whiteflag:

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I would be shocked if Jeff Skinner was sent back to Jr's. He has nothing left to prove at that level and everything to be gained by easing into NHL level play by starting on the third line.

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