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Joni Pitkanen

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Otherwise, there are a number of other factors which come into play - including the value of his return at the trade deadline, the risk of no return if he isn't resigned, and how the team sees it's most promising defensive prospects are developing.

I'd comment on how those prospects are developing but its painfully obvious I don't follow them too closely :lol:

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I'd comment on how those prospects are developing but its painfully obvious I don't follow them too closely :lol:

Hey, it's not my fault you don't know who plays where. :P

Edited by coastal_caniac

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....Renting Joni for a draft pick only makes sense if we are cleary out of the playoffs by the deadline.

This is not the Whitney scenario. Whitney was a seriously aging vet looking for a long term deal, and this team was out of the playoffs. Further we really needed to restock our farm system. Joni is still in his prime and I think we're in contention for the playoffs at the deadline. Plus, resigning Whitney wasn't going to happen on a tema looking to get young. Resigning Joni is not out of the question.

Renting? That word is not in my vocabulary after Whitney and Cullen last year. Sorry, but I had to mention the latter knowing how you feel about that 3rd line center.

We'll see how this turns out as we get closer, and the season unfolds. I agree it doesn't seem like an easy call, but thank goodness we don't have to decide for 2+ months (unless JR gets a killer offer before then).

Not sure what the chances or interest in re-signing him are but since he's bounced around a bit in the past with a not so stellar reputation at times, being comfortable in this market and having a couple of fellow Fins around might play into Joni's decision of wanting to stay here....

A perfect scenario for one of JR's boomarang players.

...

One thing I would lay money on, JR will get offers for Pitkanen which may be too good to pass up, regardless of what you, me or JR think of the player.

.... But, I can't ignore those "other" factors.

I agree, and that interest will be an indication of potential cost for re-signing him vs other offers. All the info will be available when the time comes.

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My understanding (and I could be wrong) about a rental is basically that the team getting the player is essentially renting them for the sliver of their remaining contract in an attempt to make and play well in the playoffs.

Whitney and Cullen and Corvo are perfect examples of variations on the theme.

Corvo was the rental in I guess the most true sense of the word as Coastal has pointed out, where the player is rented out and then returns to owner.

While I may be wrong, Cullen was also a rental in that the other guys essentially rented him from us for the remainder of the season, but obviously he did not return to us th_sad.gif.

Whitney was the guy who had essentially zero value to us for the remainder of the year and we had no real intention of signing that we just plain messed up and got nothing, which was an even worse failure since he was our most coveted asset.

Anyway, if we should fall hard and drop out of the race, we should definitely rent out Pitkanen and a host of others (Cole, Sammy, LaRose and anyone else that anyone will give up anything for). But if we have any kind of realistic chance to make the playoffs trading Pitkanen would be a extension of the middle finger to the fan base.

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Yeah, like Manwolf pointed out, I'm glad the Pitkanen decision is six weeks or so off. But, I think we will know where this team is going much sooner than that. The current 10 game stretch should answer alot of those questions.

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Pitkanen was really missed last night. The Canes could not move the puck through the neutral zone....something Joni usually does well.

The Canes have "rented" several players over the years....meaning they traded them at the deadline then brough them back for one rason or another. Francis, Wesley, Corvo, etc.

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While I may be wrong, Cullen was also a rental in that the other guys essentially rented him from us for the remainder of the season, but obviously he did not return to us th_sad.gif. [/Quote]

I believe at the time Cully was traded it was Jr's intent for him to be a rental. But then PK established his rigid financial

restrictions, so that went by the wayside. :(

As to Pits-----I continue to feel our team operates more smoothly when he is in the game----we have

terrible difficulty getting the puck out of our end without him. With expiring contracts (Including Brindy's

and Kabs $3.73 mil) and with our present low cap, I don't see why it would be so hard to re-sign him.

Since D's take time to develop---he hasn't peaked yet. Why would we want to trade him away just

as he is reaching peak years ?

Edited by UNCCaniac8

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Hm, I don't know about the peaked part. He seems pretty set and stubborn in his ways, good and bad.

You are right-he is one of a kind. I doubt he will improve on his puck moving skills, which are all ready

excellent. And he has a mind of his own and is a little " high maintenance"---

but I suspect he has more of an offensive upside than he has been willing to show (shots on goal, etc.)

and I think defensive responsibility may develop more. He shows some meanness and snarl from time

to time. I guess it comes down to how "teachable" he has shown himself to be to the coaching staff and

the GM. That is something we will not know about.

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I'll say this: I think the PP looks horrible without him out there. There just doesn't appear to be the same movement up the ice when Joni's not manning it.

On the flip side, he doesn't shoot as much as he should and frankly, he's not as physical as you'd like a #1 to be. Look at how Marc Staal ran Cole off the puck on that drive to the net last night. That was what you want your #1 D-man doing.

I haven't read this whole post, just the last page or so... I'm wondering if JR is looking at Joni and Ian White and thinking "I can only keep one of them after this season. Which will step up and be our #1?"

White is obviously less expensive but I'd argue he's also less skilled than Joni. Pits is very good IMO but he's got flaws... are those flaws worth $5m+ per season?

While the Canes are obviously trying to keep expenses lower, even JR admitted that the team turns a profit when it makes the postseason. You have to put a competitive product on the ice to make the playoffs. We are far enough under the cap that we could keep both Pits and White if we wanted to, depending on what we do with some other high-priced forwards who are also FAs this year (Cole, Sammy).

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If you check out this video, you will see why I'm not a huge Pitkanen fan. Ok..

1 - At the .04 mark, all Pitkanen has to do is stop the pass. He's actually in good position to do so, but he doesn't get the job done - goal against.

2 - Around the .32 mark, Pitkanen just looks silly here. Two passes get right by him. - goal against.

3 - Around the 2:14, I'm pretty sure this goal against is more LaRose's fault; however, if Pitkanen would have played the body instead of trying the poke at 2:14, we probably would have seen a better outcome.

I KNOW Pitkanen has a brilliant offensive upside, but I don't think his offensive play outweighs his defensive mistakes. And this is just one video, one game of examples. I've seen this kind of play from Pitkanen all year; I would be glad to show you more examples.

Even if this team makes it to the playoffs, I still say we take w/e we can get for Pits at the trade deadline and bring in a more defensive D-man, which is what this team really needs.

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:applause::applause:

If you check out this video, you will see why I'm not a huge Pitkanen fan. Ok..

1 - At the .04 mark, all Pitkanen has to do is stop the pass. He's actually in good position to do so, but he doesn't get the job done - goal against.

2 - Around the .32 mark, Pitkanen just looks silly here. Two passes get right by him. - goal against.

3 - Around the 2:14, I'm pretty sure this goal against is more LaRose's fault; however, if Pitkanen would have played the body instead of trying the poke at 2:14, we probably would have seen a better outcome.

I KNOW Pitkanen has a brilliant offensive upside, but I don't think his offensive play outweighs his defensive mistakes. And this is just one video, one game of examples. I've seen this kind of play from Pitkanen all year; I would be glad to show you more examples.

Even if this team makes it to the playoffs, I still say we take w/e we can get for Pits at the trade deadline and bring in a more defensive D-man, which is what this team really needs.

COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!!!

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If you check out this video, you will see why I'm not a huge Pitkanen fan. Ok..

1 - At the .04 mark, all Pitkanen has to do is stop the pass. He's actually in good position to do so, but he doesn't get the job done - goal against.

2 - Around the .32 mark, Pitkanen just looks silly here. Two passes get right by him. - goal against.

3 - Around the 2:14, I'm pretty sure this goal against is more LaRose's fault; however, if Pitkanen would have played the body instead of trying the poke at 2:14, we probably would have seen a better outcome.

I KNOW Pitkanen has a brilliant offensive upside, but I don't think his offensive play outweighs his defensive mistakes. And this is just one video, one game of examples. I've seen this kind of play from Pitkanen all year; I would be glad to show you more examples.

Even if this team makes it to the playoffs, I still say we take w/e we can get for Pits at the trade deadline and bring in a more defensive D-man, which is what this team really needs.

It's obvious you don't care for Pitkanen but why be so trivial and biased?

See if I got this right:

Boumeester goal - Ollie intercepts a weak pass from Boychuk to Staal in the Flames' corner; Cole leisurely coasts across the ice for a line change; McBain misses a cross-ice pass in the neutral zone; Boychuk has a 30' cushion on Ollie but yet he manages to get around Boychuk to lead a 3 on 2 into our zone; Pitkanen got Ollie and Iginla coming at him and can't prevent a centering pass; Boychuck finally gets back but stops skating, stretches but can't stop the pass either; Ruutu comes off the bench but is late getting to Boumeester thanks to Cole taking his sweet time; McBain backs up into Cam's face; Cam doesn't stand on his head -- goal against. Pitkanen's fault. Got it.

Iginla goal - Flames got possession in our zone; McBain can't strip the puck from Iginla or prevent his centering pass to Tanguay; Staal and Boychuck leave Tanguay wide open in front of Cam; puck bounces behind the net; Staal follows Tanguay around the corner, can't prevent the pass to Iginla then lets off and just decides to veer off to the blue line to cheat; Boychuk can't stop Iginla's pass back to Tanguay; it also goes past Pitkanen, twice, because of a quick touch and go pass right back to Iginla who then heads towards Cam; Cam makes the first stop with McBain by his side watching the shot on goal and the rebound; Cole comes back but doesn't play Iginla, the puck or his stick; Iginla gets his own rebound and scores on Cam who is on his knees instead of his head -- goal against. Pitkanen's fault. Got it.

Glencross goal - McBain coundn't control an errant Regehr pass at the blue line but backs up way too far; Hagman brings the puck into our zone with Ruutu on his back but stays high, avoiding poke checks from Pitkanen and McBain; Hagman passes behind him to Glencross coming down the middle trailed by LaRose who can't do anything; McBain backed up and blocks Cam's view; Cam is on his feet again and not his head -- goal against. Pitkanen's fault. Got it.

:rolleyes:

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Whaler...blaming the entire team on the ice huh? I agree....but it's still Mo's fault :) jk

1st goal, it's Joni's job to stop the cross ice pass which his stick is in perfect position for and which is why the puck got dished to the trailer. The trailer needs to be picked up by backchecking and it wasn't. It also doesn't help Cam's got a faceful of his own defensemen.

2nd goal, The entire team is on the same side of the ice, for whatever reason Mcbain is on the short side covering the man that was actually Cam's job until that man moved to the front of the net. 2 defensemen on the same side of the ice is going to leave a gaping hole and Cole didn't recognize it. Quite frankily Cole shouldn't have to recognize it.

3rd goal. I dont even know what the heck Mcbain is doing in this play? He backs off way to much and when Ruutu offers back support to let Mcbain steal the puck if he had been in position this goal never happens. You get Pitkanen realizing his defensive partner is in la la land but it was to late.

Seems like Mo agrees with Whaler's assessment.

Mcbain shifts in that game

1st Period: 8

2nd Period: 6

3rd Period: 3 Didn't play in the final 10 minutes of the period.

OT: 1 and it was the final 33 seconds of the OT.

You dont get benched in the 3rd because your having a good game.

Edited by legend-1

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Whaler...blaming the entire team on the ice huh? I agree....but it's still Mo's fault :) jk

hey, I was just trying to point out that a lot of others had a hand in "allowing" all those goals too. I'm not saying Pits was without fault but singling him out over and over again because you don't care for him just seems wrong. :cheers:

Imo, McBain really looked lost out there. He was the last line of defense on everyone of those goals before the puck got to Cam and he couldn't make a difference at all.

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I do believe both of us did argue your interpretation of the video. You just didn't care to address any of it.

Edited by legend-1

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When the Canes forwards learn to play defensively responsible hockey, this team will be a contender. Until then, gaffs like this will continue to kill them night after night. Too often our d-men are tasked with stopping odd man rushes by themselves. And when that happens, a lot of people like to point fingers at the d-man or Cam. Truth of the matter is, all 6 guys on the ice are to be held accountable.

You can pick-nits on any one player. I can find fault with Staal on just about every goal scored while he is on the ice. But surely an All Star like him has no faults?

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Let's not leave the trainers and nutritionists out of the blame game. It takes a village ;)

I think I'll blame the guys that clean the locker room too, why not? And who cooks the team meals, they shouldn't be exempt either. ;)

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I do believe both of us did argue your interpretation of the video. You just didn't care to address any of it.

I'm not really going to disagree with how you interpreted the video; however, I think it's really clear that Pitkanen could have easily done more to stop these goals against. That is all.

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I'm not really going to disagree with how you interpreted the video; however, I think it's really clear that Pitkanen could have easily done more to stop these goals against. That is all.

So too could McBain, but you didn't bother mentioning that; where's the vitrol in his direction? I think you just don't like Pitkanen, and that your hate isn't based on ability.

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What I don't get on here is that there are just a few of us that single people out and there are alot of people that like to make excuses for these guys!! This same conversation went on for a few seasons about Kabs and look where he is now (if you can find him). Pits playes the same style as Kabs did, his offensive game doesn't outweigh his defensive blunders. Yes I know if you don't like someone its easy to find mistakes,but its also the same that if you like someone you will find excuses for them. Sometimes its hard to do but really try and concentrate on a certain player thru-out a entire game and watch the goods and the bads and see if that really changes your opinion. Its always easier to remember a big goal,or 1 great pass/play but when you weigh in the entire game, just see if that brings more thoughts into your head about a player.(good or bad). I have been a hockey fan for over 40 yrs and I love the game and maybe sometimes I over watch a player once I think he isn't on his game but every now and then I just might be right.(maybe,,,lol) It has nothing to do persoanally against the person, just their game!

Its only my/our opinions but it seems like there are alot more excuses made,than good/correct plays made when it come to Pits. When is the last big offensive play by Pits,,the pass to Jussi-last yr, a big goal--don't remember one, big hit---um can;t remember one either,, Pits is a veteran player and he should be helping/ backing up our young guys not using them as excuses!! Just my opinion!

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Whats there to get? Some guys like to blame one player and other guys take in account all the breakdowns that led to a bad play or bad game. I dont read that anyone is giving Pits a free pass or saying he's not at fault for some bad plays, all I read them saying is that other players are on the ice too and usually theres more than one breakdown that leads to bad goal. He's been called out in the game threads plenty when he's brain cramped.

Some people just like to be right? Last I checked hockey was team sport and unless your the goalie, one guy cant win or lose it all by himself. If they could, why haven the Pens won the Cup every year since Sid was drafted? Or bettter yet, why havent the Caps won anything? <----ok that just felt good to write

Edited by fkelly

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