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Joni Pitkanen

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If Canes wanna keep him, could they pay him 'much' less than what he got right now? From the way he plays, he doesn't deserve $4.5m.

Maybe JR should try it. Considering how much weight a player's salary carries in discussions, making 'much' less money should make him an instant success with the fans and a lot less of a liability defensively.

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This may end up being the longest running post/thread ever!!!lol

lol I think it might have a long way to go yet considering the Babchuck debate(s). :popcorn:

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DJ, how do you know whats going on in JR's office right now before the trade deadline?

Tsa ,,are you serious with asking a question like that..Its just my opinion like everything else on here is. But with that said,I do watch the NHL network,I do read TSA online stuff and I listen to the radio & Watch TV and not ever once have I heard anywhere that someone was interested in Pits.

Just because you are an "Admin" person on these boards doesn't mean I can't have my opinion whether you like it or not! Didn't know I had to be a lawyer or a Canes employee to be able to post.

Lighten up a bit and enjoy all the banter!!! :thumbsup:

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Sure I'm serious and admin or not, I contribute to the board discussions just as any member and fan would. Let me re-ask my question in a way that isn't so offensive to you.

How are you so sure other teams haven't shown any interest or that Pitkanen isn't desirable to teams in contention?

Since you gather your facts from TV, radio and I'll assume internet sources, maybe you've read some of these:

http://spectorshocke...cember-17-2010/

http://spectorshocke...lackhawks-news/

http://bleedingallbl...ed-in-joni.html

http://www.yardbarke..._brewer/4152911

http://hockeyindepen...chardson/30591/

From Darren Dredger:

Eric Brewer, Chris Phillips, Joe Corvo and Joni Pitkanen (if Carolina drops out of playoff race) are more likely targets for Chiarelli to focus on.

From Pierre LeBrun:

The Hurricanes aren’t shopping Joni Pitkanen, but teams are calling about him.

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Sure I'm serious and admin or not, I contribute to the board discussions just as any member and fan would. Let me re-ask my question in a way that isn't so offensive to you.

How are you so sure other teams haven't shown any interest or that Pitkanen isn't desirable to teams in contention?

Since you gather your facts from TV, radio and I'll assume internet sources, maybe you've read some of these:

http://spectorshockey.net/2010/12/nhl-rumors-friday-december-17-2010/

http://spectorshockey.net/2011/01/latest-blackhawks-news/

http://bleedingallblue.blogspot.com/2011/02/trade-rumors-rangers-interested-in-joni.html

http://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/trade_rumors_rangers_interested_in_joni_pitkanen_eric_brewer/4152911

http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/lylerichardson/30591/

From Darren Dredger:

From Pierre LeBrun:

Being mentioned here and there isn't the same as alot of these other guys that you hear about all the time.

Plus, I mentioned where I was getting my info,(not rumors),I don't go looking thru every team cites. I wasn't offended just defending my opinion,thats all..You have yours and I have mine,,no big deal

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There you go fighting blind hatred with facts....that doesn't work around here TSA. :thumbsup:

I guess if you consider rumor as facts then enjoy Big K because you know it all :blahblah: !!If you think about it there are no facts until something is actually done..Guess before I post my opinion I will have to have a lawyer look at it!! :bangHead:

Guess I'm back to dealing with know it all's :hairpull:

Hard to believe I can't have my opinion,starting to remember why so many other original members have left this board!!

Edited by djharley

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wow, talk about blowing stuff out of proportion. All because of a question you can't or won't answer? Whatever happend to...

Lighten up a bit and enjoy all the banter!!! :thumbsup:

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Same crap different day. You and a few others absolutely HATE Pitkanen. And nothing he does on the ice will ever change that. I don't fully understand it. I guess you thought he was something he isn't when he was brought here. You're hatred for the guy has blinded you from seeing what is really going on. If someone never watched a Canes game, but listened to you guys, you'd think the guy scored "own goals" every night, was -47 on his +/- stat, and coward away from contact like Ray Whitney! (see, I can do it too). But the truth of the matter is, the guy is the Canes #1 d-man, like it or leave it. He leads all Canes d-men in points. I bet you think Gleason is better 5 0n 5? His +/- is -9, Joni's is -4. Let me guess, you don't believe in the +/- stat. You're the type who sees one mistake during a game, and comes up with a dozen ways to blame the loss on that one mistake. Staal can take 3 dumb penalties in a game, and you'd still complain if Joni took one, and that ONE prevented a breakaway! If you Pitkanen haters have ANY solid concrete evidence to back up your utter hatred, I'd see your point. But you don't. You want him shipped to Siberia, and Brett Carson to play 25 minutes a night, because he's obviously a better d-man....just ask the coaches. Right?

I'd love it if you took 5 minutes to explain your utter hatred for the guy. Some of you say he makes too much. Too much for what, a #1 d-man? Corvo came back at a discount. It happens. But if you go down a list of d-men and their salaries, I think Pitkanen is getting a darned fair salary right now. Please, explain it.

Edited by TSA

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I think there is PLENTY of interest in Pits. I also think he has been pretty darn bad for this year. I think he needs a change of scenery - he needs to be teamed up with a really steady dman. He hasn't done anything this year. He hasn't. I can't think of one play he made this year. There is the Cole tip in against ATL, but that was more of a play from Cole. Two years ago, maybe even last year, Pitkanen deserved the money he was making - not this year. I even posted a video on here showing all of the mistakes Pits made in one game.. but, of course, people were blaming the other players..the coachers.. blah blah. Never Pitkanen.

And I still do not understand being called a "Pitkanen hater." What does that even mean? By "hate" do you mean I think he has underachieved this year, is overpaid, and should be moved? If that's it, then... duh. I hope you don't mean..like.. I don't know - personally.. I don't personally hate Pits.. never met him.. I'm sure he's a nice fella..lol.

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From Sportsnet.ca:

JONI PITKANEN, D, CAROLINA HURRICANES

As of 2/23/11: 52 GP, 2 G, 24 A

It's not that GM Jim Rutherford wants to move Pitkanen, but with so many teams in need of a puck-moving defenceman, the price appears to be going up and will be very high come deadline day. The Hurricanes have been decidedly inconsistent this year and if Rutherford is not convinced his team has a chance to go deep into the playoffs, he may be inclined to stock up for next year.

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I'd love it if you took 5 minutes to explain your utter hatred for the guy.

Have you read this thread? It has been spelled out by several people, not just DJ, the minuses and pluses of Joni. Your "love" is at the same level as DJ's so-called "hate", which may not be overly eloquent, but he's saying the same things many others have.

And in case I haven't made it abundantly clear...I could go either way. My biggest issue is his apparent lack of chemistry with linemates. I could spend the next 15 minutes listing pluses and minuses, but it's been done. In short, if they move him I hope they get a great return, if we keep him I hope we find a big stay-at-home type who can play next to him. If neither of these scenarios play out, expect this thread to keep on going for a long time.

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The real question is whether this thread will exceed the Great Babchuk Debate threads? Might end up adding it to the milestones thread :lol:

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Hmmm change the word HATE ---> LOVE and hatred ----> love and we get a much clearer picture in my book:

"Same crap different day. You and a few others absolutely HATE Pitkanen. And nothing he does on the ice will ever change that. I don't fully understand it. I guess you thought he was something he isn't when he was brought here. You're hatred for the guy has blinded you from seeing what is really going on."

Alas, love IS blind!

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I even posted a video on here showing all of the mistakes Pits made in one game.. but, of course, people were blaming the other players..the coachers.. blah blah. Never Pitkanen.

C'mon, just because you post one highlight vid and start claiming that, what was it? a 3-on-1 goal, a missed pass that 3 tacs later leads to a goal and a missed backcheck by Ruutu with 3 other guys screening Cam were all Pitkanen's fault, doesn't mean others see it the same way. Of course *ahem*, we are all entitled to your own opinions, however objective or subjective they may be.

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wow, talk about blowing stuff out of proportion. All because of a question you can't or won't answer? Whatever happend to...

Which question is that?(maybe the one about being in JR's Office or what?) And the more stuff that gets going, the MORE FUN I have!

Some people are in LOVE with Joni (must be his Big Kahuanna's :razz: ) and some of us dislike his style of play!! Just because we dislike a Hurricane (oh heaven forbid) doesn't make us wrong or you guys right..Just all different opinions. :lalalai:

Not sure if its easier to be blinded by hate,,, or some people just can't see thru all the Loving puppy's,cotton candy and all the fu-fu that the rose colored glasses show! :grouphug:

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I don't love the guy, never claimed to. I just want to hear a GOOD reason why several of you hate him so badly that you'll go so far as to make up stuff to complain about. He gets blamed for EVERY canes loss....even for goals that were scored while he wasn't on the ice. People are so hung up on hating the guy, that they see things they WANT to see, even when they never happened. I lose count of the times people have blamed a goal on Pitkanen, when he wasn't even on the ice. He plays 27 minutes a game, not 60.

Don't cop out and say "read the thread". Tell me quickly why you so badly hate the guy. There has to be a reason. Did he refuse to sign an autograph?

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I like Joni, I really do. When he's on top of his game, he's deadly with the puck and has a natural ability to get under players' skins with a mere glance. He's got the legs to recover when he gets caught and no one deflects more shots out of play. I've defended him on multiple occasions in the past, but over the last few months, his play has worsened. At times, he is dreadful even.

His offensive zone passing has been too transparent and too slow and he's been getting out of position much more often when he's around Cam. He's a step behind on both ends of the ice too frequently. He's been taking quite a lot of bad penalties. In fact, his penalties have strongly reminded me of Commodore's smorgasbord of penalties before HE was dealt.

I have to believe that he's had multiple injuries nagging him for a long while because I don't buy the "lazy"/"disinterested" arguments. I used to question those things when we first had him, but he was an animal in the 09 playoffs. Despite personal opinions of the guy's character, you can't deny that he is, at the least, a really good hockey player when he's at his best, maybe even great.

I haven't read the thread so I don't know what the consensus is, but if the right deal is out there, I wouldn't be upset if Joni was traded away, *for the right guy*. I don't want to see him go, especially if he IS injured, because he has a high ceiling, but we're legitimately in the playoff hunt, and we need all hands on deck.

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Easy question: If Rutherford finds a buyer who is generous, who does Rutherford obtain to replace Pitkanen. Will it be a pending free agent signing this summer? Will it be a blockbuster trade, or will it be Sanguinetti? Trading Pitkanen leaves a huge hole to fill. Corvo can't fill it. So, who does. Be realistic. What does Rutherford do? You know he won't spend $6 million on one guy. What's the answer. I've yet to hear a good one for this question.

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I don't love the guy, never claimed to. I just want to hear a GOOD reason why several of you hate him so badly that you'll go so far as to make up stuff to complain about. He gets blamed for EVERY canes loss....even for goals that were scored while he wasn't on the ice. People are so hung up on hating the guy, that they see things they WANT to see, even when they never happened. I lose count of the times people have blamed a goal on Pitkanen, when he wasn't even on the ice. He plays 27 minutes a game, not 60.

Don't cop out and say "read the thread". Tell me quickly why you so badly hate the guy. There has to be a reason. Did he refuse to sign an autograph?

IMO, he is lazy, is out of position a lot, doesn't have a physical style of play, can't hold the puck in the zone on a PP, take stupid penalties,(especially at the wrong times). dumps the puck to and empty space way to much(creates a turnover), most of his shots are telegraphed and blocked, good stick handler--yes, good skater--yes can he play defense--not very well. Again,,these are just my opinions/observations. I don't like his style of play, it has nothing to do with him personally.

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IMO, (1)he is lazy, (2)is out of position a lot, (3)doesn't have a physical style of play, (4)can't hold the puck in the zone on a PP, (5)take stupid penalties,(especially at the wrong times). (6)dumps the puck to and empty space way to much(creates a turnover), (7)most of his shots are telegraphed and blocked, (8)good stick handler--yes, good skater--yes can he play defense--not very well. Again,,these are just my opinions/observations. I don't like his style of play, it has nothing to do with him personally.

Here's my take on your assesments-

1- I disagree. He's tall and has a long slow stride, just like Staal. He also plays too many minutes most nights, just like Staal. But I see why people might say this, although I think it's unwarranted.

2- Not sure what you mean....but he does leave the point in the O-zone, circling behind the net even, but when a d-man pinches, it's a forwards responsibility to cover. They all know this. In the D-zone, I don't see him out of position often enough to make the same general statement. I think he is guilty of trying to be too many places at the same time though. But my saying he's trying to do too much goes completely against your #1 and #2 statements.

3- Agree. He's capable of playing physical. He's done it in the past, and occasionally will do it now. But it's not his overall style of play, no. Getting caught up in trying to make a hit often means getting beat by a crafty or speedy forward. That isn't good either. Not every d-man has to be physical. But when you're over 6' tall, fans always expect it. I was always disapointed that 6-6" 235 pound Marek Mailk would't hit ANYONE! It just wasn't his game. But he wasn't nearly as gifted as Joni in other areas either though. What I never like to see from any player on my team, is stick checks when the body would be 10x more effective. Getting blown by, by a forward after you lean in and stick out your stick, is inexcusable in my opinion.

4- I disagree. I think Joni keeps the zone quite well. I think we can blame some really bad, hurried passing on this one. No one on this team really connects tape to tape often enough. The book on beating the Canes powerplay has been to pressure the puck carrier for two+ seasons now. It happens quite often. An aggressive penalty kill will cause powerplay turnovers by the Canes night after night.

5- I can give you this one. But I won't single out Pitkanen only. Staal and LaRose have been guilty of the same thing numerous times. I'll cut Skinner some slack, he's 18. And I categorize "stupid" penalties as the ones that were lazy or in anger/retaliation. Not the ones that prevented a breakaway, sometimes you have to take those.

6- I prefer dumping to an empty corner and hoping one of the forwards hustles after it to putting it on the blade of an opponent in the neutral zone. I'll take this all day.

7- Statement rings true for the entire team. Forslund sounds like a broken record each night, "blocked on the way through", "pass detected", etc. Not the fault of one guy. Team/system problem.

8- I think his defense is pretty good. I think it might would improve if his minutes were cut back a few per game, and he wasn't expected to pinch as often. I also think his lack of confidence in his partners, is very obvious. There's been no consistency on this blueline since he's been here. It's been a revolving door. I'd like to see him and Gleason paired up again, for more than a game or two. But what does that leave your for your other pairings...because Corvo and Gleason work well together. It's obvious the Canes need a top 4 stay-at-homer. That wasn't White.

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If Rutherford actually goes after and gets Liles, you guys are going to HATE him even worse. makes half a million more, is smaller, plays worse defense, and has a career +/- of -14.

Prepare yourself! :hotflash:

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I don't love the guy, never claimed to. I just want to hear a GOOD reason why several of you hate him so badly that you'll go so far as to make up stuff to complain about. He gets blamed for EVERY canes loss....even for goals that were scored while he wasn't on the ice. People are so hung up on hating the guy, that they see things they WANT to see, even when they never happened. I lose count of the times people have blamed a goal on Pitkanen, when he wasn't even on the ice. He plays 27 minutes a game, not 60.

Don't cop out and say "read the thread". Tell me quickly why you so badly hate the guy. There has to be a reason. Did he refuse to sign an autograph?

and i said u were always negative kahuna... shame on me.. my bad :twilight-zone:

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I think that it is worth it to look at McCabe or Phillips. Maybe keep Joni, but you would have to give something there. Joni paired with either of the above, and Gleason and Corvo is a pretty sharp top 4. McBain can play with Harrison, or Carson, young pairing but serviceable. Or mix them up a bit with the younger guys. Going into the playoffs with these 7 D would make me feel pretty good(McCabe or Phillips, not getting both).

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