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Whaler1

Our Coaching.....

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I have the usual complaints about the defense and the powerplay, but this is an average team playing average. When Lavi had an average team, he got average results too.

We are well under the salary cap, JR did not make a major deadline mover for the playoffs (he did make some nice little moves) and partially rebuilding: McBain, Skinner, Tlusty, Samson, and really Harrison, are all nearly rookies at the NHL level, and Boychuk, Daple and now Bowman have all seen time up this year.

LaRose is utterly a wasted space this year. I know a fan favorite, but if he's back on any line higher than #4 JR has some explaining to do.

Not sure that another coach would have this team any higher in the standings. There are 10 teams with worse records than ours.

Yes, I know, Mo has a mediocre record, but he has had largely mediocre teams. There were plenty of people screaming for Lavi's head also and there will be for the next guy too.

One thing on the powerplay. We are essentially dead last in the league on face-offs (.1 point better than Edmonton). That shows itself most on special teams, where gaining possession makes an actual difference. It is even more of an issue for a team that is not great at gaining the zone on the rush during a power play. I bet we would skip ahead of several teams in the PP ranking if we even had an average # face off wins on the PP, same with PK. Still needs improvement beyond that, but would probably be close to average just on that one thing.

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I think a big part of the failures at the faceoff circle are due to how small our team is, especially at center. By small I mean skinny and weak. We've got a couple of tall centers, but they are built like telephone poles. JR still needs to add some beef to this team. And supposedly they have tried everything short of holding him down and shoving pies in his mouth to put weight on Sutter, and it won't happen.

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I have the usual complaints about the defense and the powerplay, but this is an average team playing average. When Lavi had an average team, he got average results too.

We are well under the salary cap, JR did not make a major deadline mover for the playoffs (he did make some nice little moves) and partially rebuilding: McBain, Skinner, Tlusty, Samson, and really Harrison, are all nearly rookies at the NHL level, and Boychuk, Daple and now Bowman have all seen time up this year.

LaRose is utterly a wasted space this year. I know a fan favorite, but if he's back on any line higher than #4 JR has some explaining to do.

Not sure that another coach would have this team any higher in the standings. There are 10 teams with worse records than ours.

Yes, I know, Mo has a mediocre record, but he has had largely mediocre teams. There were plenty of people screaming for Lavi's head also and there will be for the next guy too.

One thing on the powerplay. We are essentially dead last in the league on face-offs (.1 point better than Edmonton). That shows itself most on special teams, where gaining possession makes an actual difference. It is even more of an issue for a team that is not great at gaining the zone on the rush during a power play. I bet we would skip ahead of several teams in the PP ranking if we even had an average # face off wins on the PP, same with PK. Still needs improvement beyond that, but would probably be close to average just on that one thing.

Nerd let's agree this is a mediocre coach coaching a mediocre team. However a quality coach (note I am not saying an outstanding coach) has the ability, like any good manager in business, to get the very best and maybe even improve the productivity of a mediocre employee or team. This is not the case when MO can not even teach the basic simple skills of consistently going to the net or the ability for this team to consistently find ways to control the puck in the offensive zone during the PP. Last night's game vs the Caps was a prime example when in the 3rd period we had a PP (with the "chips" on the line) and we had difficulty getting the puck into the zone. In that specific PP we had NO shots on goal. This happens all the time.

My point is that these should be "teachable" skills that when executed should show improvment over time. Mo has not done that well in a number of areas where the coach can and does have the juice to make it happen. If the players can't learn and execute then they are not living up to what we continually hear from JR is a talented young team. Everyone has potential but when the coach can't bring the potential to life the coach and/or the player should be suspect.

Edited by canefan248

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IMO this team is better than it has shown and the gap between performance and potential is more coach related than player related. However, both are responsible for the outcome.

For the coaching, I don't believe for one moment that if this team executed as expected by the entire coaching staff that they would be far better. I think they'd only be slightly better. I base that on the special teams being poorly aligned (e,g. no net presence) and without sufficient practice. Even a novice fan can see repeated attempts to work the same formation/play that only works sparingly. IMO the forward lines have been poorly aligned and juggled frequently when desperate. Lastly, I don't think there is a defensive emphasis to protect Ward and the goal mouth.

For the players, IMO there are players that haven't been given the opportunity to deliver even more. Sutter is too valuable to play 3rd line center, where the front office or coaches could have found alternatives. LaRose is simply not a top 6 forward, yet game-after-game he's been rolled out there. The 4th line has seen too little ice time to truly contribute and the top line has had shifts that are too long. Lastly, nobody has stepped up to tell the league to lay off Skinner.

Maybe I'm seeing what could be (at least to me), and frustrated by what I see repeated again-and-again. However, I think many fans (here, The Aftermath, gameday friends at RBC, co-workers) have similar views.

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There are many, many, many reasons for why the Devils underperformed in the beginning of the season; it wasn't just the coach. Kovalchuk looked like an absolute scrub for the beginning of the season. It's not just the coach that changes a team so don't use New Jersey as an example.

Considering what he's got to work with, I'd say Mo's done a decent job.

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^ Hardly.

He's NEVER done a decent job. The Canes won in spite of his terrible coaching in the two successful seasons he's had as a head coach. I watched his team turn on him in his last season here before being fired. It's very obvious when a team tunes out a coach, or simply stops doing as he tells them. And this team is there now. Maurice has lost this team.

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... It's very obvious when a team tunes out a coach, or simply stops doing as he tells them. And this team is there now. Maurice has lost this team.

Based on their play I'd say they're doing what he's telling them, and that my friend is the problem IMO. No adjustment to the offensive zone approach (two down the left, one cuts to middle, pass to either). Uh, it worked once (CBJ are West Coast, so expected it to work), and that was it.

Mo says dump/chase, they do it. Mo throws Staal over the boards too many times, he stays out longer. Mo tells 4th line sit, they sit.

No, I think they listen too much.

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Last night it seemed the Jackets were running set plays and the Canes were just playing pond hockey with the dump and chase routine. Right now it seems Stormy would be a better coach than the MoRon combination.

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^ Hardly.

He's NEVER done a decent job. The Canes won in spite of his terrible coaching in the two successful seasons he's had as a head coach. I watched his team turn on him in his last season here before being fired. It's very obvious when a team tunes out a coach, or simply stops doing as he tells them. And this team is there now. Maurice has lost this team.

As with many of your posts, I totally agree. Maurice is a CAREER underachieving coach. Francis' work with the powerplay has yielded squat.

According to a question to Chuck K during a recent intermission regarding who decides which players are on the ice, Chuck replied that Maurice and Francis make decisions on forwards, and Rowe makes decisions on defensemen. The Time on Ice averages for our defensemen makes me scratch my head. First, Joni Pitkanen is 7th in the entire league in average time on ice. I personally believe that this is too much for him to be as effective as we'd all like him to be. Next, average ice time from Babchuck (19:06) to his replacement Ian White (19:18) remained unchanged. Yet, Bryan Allen, who is White's replacement only sees 16:02 in ice time, and Harrison, one of our only plus defenseman sees just 15:06 in average ice time. Joslin, when he plays averages just 14:28 in ice time.

This indicates to me that the team is relying even more heavily on it's top three defensemen than it did earlier in the season.

The line shuffling never ends. How the hell can these players "gel" or create chemistry with one another if the lines are NEVER the same? It's infuriating to me. IMO, Paul Maurice should not be the coach of this team. I think the whole Lavi situation blew up because I think he wanted more "control" of the team than JR wanted him to have. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the feeling I got. Now JR's "buddy" is back at the helm. I think this team is skilled enough offensively to have made the playoffs (I no longer believe they will), but if management/coaching lacks the confidence in our bottom 3 defensemen, they should have signed or acquired better ones. Instead, they play the hell out of our top 3 and expect them to never run out of gas? I don't get it.

This team is not playing with any kind of desire to win or heart as far as I can see. As stated before, the team certainly doesn't appear to be responding to their coach(es), and not only is that a problem, it signifies that the coach has lost his team. What pisses me off the most, it took a "horrible" start to the season to get rid of Maurice the first time, and it will take at least that to get rid of him again. As for 10 years, Rutherford has seemed comfortable with Maurice's mediocre coaching.

Edited by ThaRaven

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Yep...one more year of mediocrity. And more more year to delay the rebuild we were promised.

Playing a couple of rookies 5 minutes a night isn't a rebuild.

No way does Maurice get fired before his contract is up. And I seriously doubt Jim Rutherford is the GM to fire Maurice. No idea who will be GM after Jimmy retires or croaks....but it may well be Maurice of Karmanos JR doesn't want it.

We're stuck in this hole of mediocrity for a while, I'm afraid.

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Coaching should be responsible for the preparation, strategy, and overall mindset/attitude of their team. A few observations:

- This team appears to lack the focus and knowledge of what they are individually supposed to be doing, especially in the defensive zone; sometimes evident in outright confusion, but very often demonstrating the old "zigging when they should be zagging" syndrome. Call it confidence if you wish but this team is (too often) lacking the clear headedness which is established with sound preparation.

- There's too many references by Maurice that acknowledge "squeezing their sticks" and "the difficulty of their schedule" which is ok once but when oftentimes repeated actually ends up being self fulfilling.

- The only creativity in changing or adjusting the game plan/"system" when it seems to be failing is the constant change-up of lines. We get some really good play from the third and fourth line at times, but when they're only putting in 4-6 mins a game, it's hard to both develop and or take advantage of what that provides to the guys logging > 20.

- Ward has been consistently giving up soft goals (by consistently I mean about 1 per game) that I personally think are due to fatigue. God forbid his back starts blowing up again, which for anyone who has had back problems knows can be a symptom of over-work/tenseness. Peters gets so little work that when he does, expect there to 2 soft goals per game simply due to confidence.

- If this team was actually having some fun out there, wouldn't a couple of blowouts where we fill the nets in a game be just a bit more frequent?

- There's far too much dump and chase and if you watch the triangular area demarcated by the top of the crease outwards to the center top of each face-off circle, we seldom have anyone positioned in it. More often than not we have all three of the forward line positioned in the corners, and or on or past the goal line.

- I'm tired of hearing the phrases, "moving our feet", "speed thru the neutral zone" and "getting our shots off quicker". How bout initiating some direction that actually initiates those things? For example, from what I've seen, I would "outlaw" taking a slap shot unless it's a simple one timer at the instant the puck is received. None of this stopping the puck, taking a big windup, and basically allowing both the defenseman and opposing keepers plenty of times to position themselves for the block. There's far too few wristers and snapshots taken by our guys.

I'm afraid I could go on for some time with these, but to me, they are all evidence of coaching deficiencies. Any thoughts?

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I won't make a lot of comments at this point on coaching, because it's hard for me to be objective at this point in the season, with the way things are going and all. I'll wait to the season is said and done and give my opinion at that point. As in most seasons, the reactionary posters go away and we are left with more thoughtful comments and discussion, on one side or the other. I really hope JR uses somewhat of the same process, and can make an informed decision about the future of this team's leadership. As others have eluded to, this franchise's ability to "rebuild" into a team that can consistently produce a product is in question, and I'm one of those who questions who will lead that effort going forward.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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On another topic, seems to me we have been so abysmal stocking our own system with prospects through the draft, any kind of "rebuild" almost certainly has to start in Charlotte. So, from that perspective I'm not so sure this team isn't actually rebuilding, only from the bottom up. Unfortunately, the transition from the bottom up to the big club might not be quick enough for some, but I wouldn't go so far as to say the fleece has been pulled over our eyes with respect to restocking the big club. Another good topic for off season discussion, because now's just not the time.

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A good coach is someone such as John Wooden of ULCA (12 national champs )who was said of "could take his'ens and beat your'ens then take your'ens and beat his'ens." Don't think Mo is such coach. Lines are shifted so much their is constant uncertainty as to the positioning of the line mates. The PP seems to be the equivalent of "y'all go downfield and I will heave it to anyone that is open. The problems seem to exist season after season, The issue comes down to that of coaching. Should Mo be shown the door, the question would be who would replace him?

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The power play is horrendous because we never skate it into the zone. We depend on the dump and chase to get puck possession and it seems like 90% of the time we do not get possession and it is just shot right back down the ice. I just hate the dump and chase mentality and it just is not working with this team. You need speed to get the puck and some bangers to do this but all of our speed is in Charlotte. If we are going to rebuild then rebuild and to me that would include a new coach. Any new coach. Anyone!!!!

I drive from New Bern to the games. 2.5 hours one way and I am having serious doubts about driving up there anymore to watch this. I can stay at home and watch on TV and not be so frustrated. Last night was almost more than I could take!!!!

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I hated the Maurice hiring as soon as it happened. What has the guy done over his career? He was a below .500 coach at the start of this year....1000 games and he had lost more than he has won. That is awful. Currently he has 2 more wins than losses...spectacular. I compared Maurice to every other coach in the league. He ranks 29th out of 30 in point percentage, which basically divides points earned by points possible. 29th. Only Craig Ramsey was lower and I think its pretty safe to say we are more talented than that team and this is Ramsey's first season.

We fired a stanley cup winning coach after 2 seasons of not making the playoffs and 25 games of .500 play. Maurice has gotten more games to turn around the team than that....and he gets a free pass because he is best buds with the GM. Fire Maurice if we don't make the playoffs this year and fire them both if JR decides to keep him next year.

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Another thing from an earlier rant. Ever since Tlusty has been back we have gone 6-8-4. What does the coach see in him? Put Patrick Dwyer back up with Sutter and put Tlusty on the 4th line. So what if the 4th line does not have a true center anymore. Mo only plays them 4 minutes a night anyway.

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I hated the Maurice hiring as soon as it happened. What has the guy done over his career? He was a below .500 coach at the start of this year....1000 games and he had lost more than he has won. That is awful. Currently he has 2 more wins than losses...spectacular. I compared Maurice to every other coach in the league. He ranks 29th out of 30 in point percentage, which basically divides points earned by points possible. 29th. Only Craig Ramsey was lower and I think its pretty safe to say we are more talented than that team and this is Ramsey's first season.

We fired a stanley cup winning coach after 2 seasons of not making the playoffs and 25 games of .500 play. Maurice has gotten more games to turn around the team than that....and he gets a free pass because he is best buds with the GM. Fire Maurice if we don't make the playoffs this year and fire them both if JR decides to keep him next year.

Mo IS a below .500 coach. They generously count overtime losses as .500 towards the record. If you take them as losses (which they are) he is a below .500 coach lifetime (as well as this season). Just one of my peeves. (Not with you, with the statisticians)

I've made the same point about the much shorter leash Lav had. He should have had a longer leash since the had done what many would have said was unthinkable, brought the Holy Grail to Raleigh... And whatever the reason was that we had to part ways, it was bitter as you can tell from reactions on both sides to this day.

So it was touched on already... I have been one of JR's biggest supporters, but by far his biggest weakness is this attachment to Maurice. If he thinks this guy is putting butts in the seats he is wrong. People are coming in spite of this boring style/results. I think it is simply this. He's cheap, and he doesn't make waves with ownership/front office. And that is a crappy reason to keep a guy. We deserve better.

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They rehired maurice for two very distinct and obvious reasons:

1) Pity- They fired the guy, brought in a new coach who took the same players and won a Stanley Cup. All done while Maurice was floundering in Toronto. As soon as Toronto had a good look at Maurice, and saw what he wasn't capable of doing, they canned him. Karmanos, Rutherford, all got their name on the cup without their long time buddy, and the guilt was pretty high.

2) Cost- No self respecting NHL coach with a good record would work for the salary Paul Maurice works for...without asking or more control over the business end of players and bringing in his own assistants. Paul Maurice is more than content to be a puppet, doing simply what is asked and nothing more. He doesn't rock the "Karmanos" boat.

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The stats do suggest that we have been a poor powerplay team for years including Lavi years. One way to look at it is to compare the team's ranking in 5/5 goals vs. the PP goals. One would assume that if we do well in 5/5 goal scoring we should have the guns to have a decent powerplay.

Every year since (and including) the Stanley Cup team, we have ranked much lower in the powerplay than 5/5 (excepting 07-08 when it was a little worse, but still top 10). In fairness some of that could be a more offensive style on 5/5 than most teams, but there are weaknesses to every stat.

Most years the spread is big. Even in the Cup year, the team was #3 in the league in 5/5, but only #17 on the PP. This year it's #10 5/5 and #20 PP.

The only year in the past 6 seasons that we had a better than average PP was 07-08 when we ended the season #8 on the PP, though we were #5 in 5/5 offense.

So it clearly is an area that we could improve. Is it the coaches, the players? It would seem that we could do a bit better and while the problem predates Francis, our Hall of Famer has not had much of a positive statistical impact on it.

On the other hand, I'm no math major, but as disjointed as our PP looks, we convert 17% and the top 10 teams convert around 20%. If I am reading the numbers right, that would be 3% more often? 3 goals more per 100 powerplays? Or around 1 goal more per 33 powerplays? Hey, that could still end up being a few extra wins, which in our situation would be great.

Further, we do play a frenetic style of game that emphasizes offense on 5/5. This may lead to a bit of an inflated goal production vs. our actual talent level. Still, no doubt this is an area that we have and continue to struggle with.

You are correct and those 6 or so points would be HUGE right now!!! that is the difference in a 3% better PP!

Mo, Ronny and Tom ALL must go!

Mo out!!!! Ronnie and Brindy behind the bench!!!!!

I have the usual complaints about the defense and the powerplay, but this is an average team playing average. When Lavi had an average team, he got average results too.

We are well under the salary cap, JR did not make a major deadline mover for the playoffs (he did make some nice little moves) and partially rebuilding: McBain, Skinner, Tlusty, Samson, and really Harrison, are all nearly rookies at the NHL level, and Boychuk, Daple and now Bowman have all seen time up this year.

LaRose is utterly a wasted space this year. I know a fan favorite, but if he's back on any line higher than #4 JR has some explaining to do.

Not sure that another coach would have this team any higher in the standings. There are 10 teams with worse records than ours.

Yes, I know, Mo has a mediocre record, but he has had largely mediocre teams. There were plenty of people screaming for Lavi's head also and there will be for the next guy too.

One thing on the powerplay. We are essentially dead last in the league on face-offs (.1 point better than Edmonton). That shows itself most on special teams, where gaining possession makes an actual difference. It is even more of an issue for a team that is not great at gaining the zone on the rush during a power play. I bet we would skip ahead of several teams in the PP ranking if we even had an average # face off wins on the PP, same with PK. Still needs improvement beyond that, but would probably be close to average just on that one thing.

I disagree, there a many others out there that do the minimum, put out the minimum on this team. Rosey is the little engine that could and sparks this team up way more than he brings them down!! He does make mistakes, he does get caught out of position and when he does he makes up for it in effort, heart and pure emotion! he is a keeper however at a much better price!

^ Hardly.

He's NEVER done a decent job. The Canes won in spite of his terrible coaching in the two successful seasons he's had as a head coach. I watched his team turn on him in his last season here before being fired. It's very obvious when a team tunes out a coach, or simply stops doing as he tells them. And this team is there now. Maurice has lost this team.

LOL, Just LOL is all I can say to this one!

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The Canes are at the level they were projected to finish the season in terms of contending for an 8th seed in the playoffs, My concern is they have no more identity at the close of the season than they did at its begining. The problem areas of a poor defense and a poor offense have not been corrected. It will probably take a poor start next season for Mo to be shown the door. By then the Canes stand a very good chance of having yet another season without making the playoffs.

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Coaching should be responsible for the preparation, strategy, and overall mindset/attitude of their team. A few observations:

- This team appears to lack the focus and knowledge of what they are individually supposed to be doing, especially in the defensive zone; sometimes evident in outright confusion, but very often demonstrating the old "zigging when they should be zagging" syndrome. Call it confidence if you wish but this team is (too often) lacking the clear headedness which is established with sound preparation.

- There's too many references by Maurice that acknowledge "squeezing their sticks" and "the difficulty of their schedule" which is ok once but when oftentimes repeated actually ends up being self fulfilling.

- The only creativity in changing or adjusting the game plan/"system" when it seems to be failing is the constant change-up of lines. We get some really good play from the third and fourth line at times, but when they're only putting in 4-6 mins a game, it's hard to both develop and or take advantage of what that provides to the guys logging > 20.

- Ward has been consistently giving up soft goals (by consistently I mean about 1 per game) that I personally think are due to fatigue. God forbid his back starts blowing up again, which for anyone who has had back problems knows can be a symptom of over-work/tenseness. Peters gets so little work that when he does, expect there to 2 soft goals per game simply due to confidence.

- If this team was actually having some fun out there, wouldn't a couple of blowouts where we fill the nets in a game be just a bit more frequent?

- There's far too much dump and chase and if you watch the triangular area demarcated by the top of the crease outwards to the center top of each face-off circle, we seldom have anyone positioned in it. More often than not we have all three of the forward line positioned in the corners, and or on or past the goal line.

- I'm tired of hearing the phrases, "moving our feet", "speed thru the neutral zone" and "getting our shots off quicker". How bout initiating some direction that actually initiates those things? For example, from what I've seen, I would "outlaw" taking a slap shot unless it's a simple one timer at the instant the puck is received. None of this stopping the puck, taking a big windup, and basically allowing both the defenseman and opposing keepers plenty of times to position themselves for the block. There's far too few wristers and snapshots taken by our guys.

I'm afraid I could go on for some time with these, but to me, they are all evidence of coaching deficiencies. Any thoughts?

You nailed it, I have been saying for months that alot of our problems are system driven. the system in place is forcing these guys to these areas of the ice. Example, the D-men are always out of position to seal the points, the puck goes to the half boards, is slap shotted into the creas area wide or short where it slides out of the zone cuz there are no D-men there to make that play to keep it onsides. why is that?? the System has everyone collapsing to the side of the ice the puck is on in an attempt to out man the other team in our zone, GREAT IDEA until the shooter takes that shot without looking to see what is going on at the points, this system has to utilize the points and the point man where they are or feed pucks to the center slot for a quick wrister trough traffic on goal.

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