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Whaler1

Our Coaching.....

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I'll be realistic here and speculate that nothing will change. With one year left on Mo's contract and the team up for sale PK will not likely sign another coach and saddle any potential new owner/partner with 2 payouts and a long term contract.

It'll be Mo, or Ron or someone under contract. The Ron experiment of finding out whether he wants to be behind the bench is now two years old. Time to make a move upstairs, or make him the head coach. Either way, he is not the X/O guy to run the PP.

I agree. Unless they're moving Mo into a different position in the org, he'll play out his contract. Then they'll move him to a different position in the org.

And I agree that PK/JR will not want to go out and get another coach and pay two of them. I think the real question is whether Jeff Daniels is ready to move up from Charlotte. That's the only person I can think of that PK/JR would consider, because he's already in the org. This is a young team and JD has proven that he can coach young talent in this org. I'd love to see him get a shot at the 2011-2012 team. Move Mo up to assistant GM duties or something. Maybe he'll be JR's replacement someday (I hope not, but I think we're saddled with him).

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I re-read Luke's article this morning and I still feel the same way. I have no issue with and agree with much of what he wrote but it seemed a little cold and somewhat calculated to throw that out to the fans within an hour of that loss.

My guess is he wrote the article in advance knowing that, with the team's play this season, there was a high likelyhood they would lay an egg in its final game. When the final horn sounded, all he needed to do was to press the "send" button.

One concern I have regarding a coaching change are the free agents we have. A head coach needs to have considerable say in which players are signed, which are let go, and which ones are brought into the fold. As soon as the SCF are over, decisions need to be made so a fairly stable team can come together before the start of training camp in September.

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My gut feeling also tells me Mo isn't going anywhere. If that's the decision I won't like it, but I'll move forward. But for gosh sakes a blind person could can see there are some X/O issues.

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Being that Tampa Bay had nothing to gain, I cannot for the life of me understand why the Canes didn't come out hitting ferociously. The Bolts might well have tried to protect some of their better players by keeping them on the bench. I've been holding off on bashing the coaching, but I cannot any longer. Was there some kind of game plan? Memories of that season where all they had to do was beat the cellar-dwelling Panthers on the last day (shirt off your back night) and they coughed up a fur ball. Well they did it again.

IMHO, aside from better coaching, they need a backup goalie who can give Cam a night off on back to backs without it being pretty much an automatic loss. Peters is a great minor league goalie but he is not ready for the NHL. And they need to fix the special teams problem. I was impressed with what a bunch of kids shuttling back and forth from Charlotte was able to do this season. A lot of folks picked the Canes to finish 11th or even last. So now they miss the playoffs and the cream of next year's draft. Yeah,it sucks!

And thanks very much to Atlanta for serving up the opportunity for the Canes to make the playoffs on a silver platter. Too bad the Canes didn't show up to play.

Edited by rob123xyz

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I agree. Unless they're moving Mo into a different position in the org, he'll play out his contract. Then they'll move him to a different position in the org.

And I agree that PK/JR will not want to go out and get another coach and pay two of them. I think the real question is whether Jeff Daniels is ready to move up from Charlotte. That's the only person I can think of that PK/JR would consider, because he's already in the org. This is a young team and JD has proven that he can coach young talent in this org. I'd love to see him get a shot at the 2011-2012 team. Move Mo up to assistant GM duties or something. Maybe he'll be JR's replacement someday (I hope not, but I think we're saddled with him).

I believe that's why Daniels was sent to Charlotte - to prep him for a head coaching job. I don't know about Francis, but maybe they should give him a try?

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Yes yesterday was kind of stunning. I have been on the fence on Mo. I was not a Canes fan the first time Mo was here, but it sounds pretty brutal.

On the plus side, the players seem to play for him and like him. The effort was there all year. Further, this team seemed emotionally resiliant to getting down (until yesterday) and bounced back extremely well to the buttons Mo pushed. Then there was the run we went on his first year back, taking a marginal team to the ECF. To me, that bought him time up to now.

But, Lavi got us all the way to the cup, but that was not enough for him to get to work out the remainder of his contract. So the time the ECF appearance bought Mo is over. So how did the team do this year? Based on JR's infamous "competitive non playoff team" it would be hard to fire the guy for getting us one game from the playoffs. However, as Luke aptly points out, the "non playoff" comment was before we knew that Jeff Skinner was a bonefide All Star this year, and before we knew that Eric Cole would find himself and play the last 3/4 of the year like an All Star also. Despite the injury Jussi put up good numbers also, and Cam was an All Star. While Staal was injured at the end, he still put up elite numbers.

Of all the things that had to break in our favor (in terms of players production) most of them did. A team with 3 legit All Stars and one (Cole) who would have been if he had played that way from day one, should make the playoffs, especially if one of those All Star's is the goalie.

People have already tried to illigitamate the schedule and Staal excuses ahead of time, though the truth is that without either of these we are in the playoffs.

So it is a toss up until that last game. I really hate to base it all on one game, but that's life. It's like the shootout to lose a hockey game. Not ideal, but you still lose.

The fact is that this team choked at the worst time, and have to spend the entire off season thinking about it. And when they come back they are going to need some indication that things have changed. Since most of the same team will be back, that leaves the coach.

Unlike some, I will not throw up in my mouth if Mo is back. But if pressed I would replace him. I am surpised to see Luke take that shot. I guess it helps that he is not on that beat anymore. Still the points he makes are valid.

Edited by remkin

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IMO Mo will be given a shot going into next year, but with higher expectations - just like Lavi. If the Canes are not solidly in the top 8 by next Nov/Dec he'll be replaced. I expect the replacement, if there is one, to be from within.

The above is safer than putting someone new in the Head Coach position, and then risking an underperformance leading to second guessing.

IMO, the only scenario that changes the above is a coach known for leading a young, talented team forward. We don't have one of those, but a couple that can possibly become one.

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The fact that Francis couldn't design a working set of power-plays does not give me confidence in him being a good head coach. Tom Barasso seems to be a good fit as a goalie coach. Whoever was the "D" coach should be released in addition to the guy in charge of face-offs.

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The "players like MO" because he's a soft coach who won't single out "IN" guys or veterans. Newer and less popular players shoulder the blame when blame is handed out. Mo won't bag skate the guys anymore either. He's as soft as a coach can be. A "non-players coach" won't win many friends, but will win championships. This isn't a country club, it's a business based on winning!

And as far as saying "the players all love him" as has been tossed out there about Mo, that was anything but the truth during his first stint as Canes coach.

Edited by TheBigKahuna

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The fact that Francis couldn't design a working set of power-plays does not give me confidence in him being a good head coach. Tom Barasso seems to be a good fit as a goalie coach. Whoever was the "D" coach should be released in addition to the guy in charge of face-offs.

Doesn't matter what you design if the players won't shoot the puck. That's the problem...and I'd bet it was Mo's system in general that got them away from the kind of gunning they did under Lavi, you know, when our PP could score.

Frankly, I'd take the exact opposite tactic that they had this year for next season: five forwards on the top PP unit, two bodies in front of the net, and the first decent chance to get it at the net from the D, it goes at the net.

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Its been very interesting reading about the coaches being let go after their team didn't make the playoffs, but its been equally as interesting reading about the teams in the playoffs and what will happen if their expectations don't get met. I doubt we'll see any coaching vacancies filled until after the playoffs unless the successor has already been identified from within.

In regards to the Canes and after taking in all the exit interviews and comments regarding coaching, I bet Maurice will get his last contract year to make this team more consistent but I'd also bet that the leash won't be long. I'm not a Mo apologist nor a supporter but I can understand that decision. When his system was executed well it was an exciting brand of hockey to watch. When it wasn't executed well, it was pretty ugly. Tweaks need to be made but is it in the coaching or the personnel?

The players admittedly (per Gleason) bought in too late for whatever reason but with the financial constraints of this franchise, I wouldn't have any problem giving it another chance and see if the team can buy in right out of the gate? Next season will begin with a full competitive training camp and with none of the distractions this past season started with. There were a lot of lessons to be learned from this season and progress was made. Contrary to what some think, I believe this season was lost in February and not the last week of the season. For some reason the team that was able to hold their ground throughout the first crazy 1/2 of the season couldn't find their way when the schedule settled in after the All Star break.

Sure I could come up with many games where I scratched my head with some of the coaching decisions but its hard to know what decisions were made based on lack of execution or if the lack of execution was a result of the coaching decisions. Whatever was the case, they found their way and played some pretty exciting hockey down the stretch but unfortunately just fell short. I'd be happy having some new and fresh ideas behind the bench, but I also wouldn't mind seeing how next season starts before taking away more money from potential off season signings by firing a coach with 1 year left on his contract. If they pick up where they left off, we'll be ahead of the ball game for once.

Hard to have a coaching discussion without at least considering personnel. Everyone knew the Canes started this season missing some key pieces but no one would have guessed how some players would excel and how some wouldn't. The point being that the coach only has who he's given to work with and its only fair that if he's going to take a hit for players underachieving, he should also get some credit for the ones that exceeded all expectations, we had both. Isn't the GM the architect of the team who makes all the personnel decisions?

All this said, there could be some very good coaching choices new to the market when the playoffs are all finished so for those on the Mo vigilante squad, you may want to just sit tight for now ;)

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So TSA, folks who are ready for a change are now automatically on a "Mo Vigilante Squad"? :) Some are, and have been, more vocal about Mo than others, I'll give you that. But characterizing everyone who isn't pleased and are ready for a change in that manner is a little unfair, IMO. I can't speak for everyone, but I would offer a comment or two on how I formed my current opinion of why it's time for a change.

First, I sat through all those seasons during Mo's first stint as head coach. If I hadn't, maybe I would be more supportive of him remaining behind the bench. But I see some of the same problems now as very similar to those that kept the team at a mediocre level during his first stint behind the bench. Without going into X/0's let's just say those teams often appeared confused on just what system they were playing, he refused to give younger players responsibility when their play seemed to dictate it, preferring veterans to youth, and from my perspective never liked to roll four lines with any regularity, resulting in the better players taking too much TOI. Frankly, I don't think many of his players the first time around ever bought into his system. He certainly wasn't a players coach - far from it.

Fast forward. This year, in his first full season as head coach the second time around, what did I see? I saw a team on the ice that looked confused as to just what system they were supposed to be playing. Heck, we never put a consistent line on the ice until March, when in all reality, the season was lost in February, a month that saw so many line combinations it made my head spin. Most good teams roll four lines to take pressure off of their better players. This coach doesn't, it's not his style. In general, I think he remains committed to vets over youth to an extreme.

I think the overall consensus now is this year's team over achieved. But who would have thought Cole would have the year he did, Skinner would have the season he did, and for the most part the team would remain as healthy as any hockey team can. But yet, we still failed to capitalize on a perfect opportunity to keep the momentum of all that was this year going by making the playoffs. The last game of the season still holds a lot of weight in my mind. How does a team play so miserably in a game of that magnitude and lose the game in the first 14 minutes of regulation?

I understand a coach is at the mercy of the players he is given, and that should factor into a coaches performance. But I'm sorry, this is a small market. We will never consistently spend to the cap. It is what it is. That' why, in my opinion, and in this market, it's even more important to have a coach that can over achieve and get the very best out of what the market can give him relative to players. It's critical, it's one thing small market teams have to depend on. I don't think that coach is Paul Maurice, and I think if you look at his whole body of work, it speaks for itself.

I think that's pretty much what Luke DeCock was expressing in his article, given the history he has with this team.

I'm sitting tight. ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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In regards to the length of Mo's leash, how much of next year's season needs to be lost before the leash is pulled? And, what is the contingency plan should that occur?

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The vigilante comment was my lame attempt at a little humor towards those in the hard lined "mo must go" camp. It wasn't meant as a sweeping generalization of everyone, sorry if it read like that. I guess I didn't do a good job with my post but the gist was that no matter what camp you're in, I think its more likely that Maurice will be given his last contract year to see if he can get more consistent results, the positive being that I also think his leash will be a short one and if things don't go well early, he'll be replaced.

I said that I wasn't a Mo apologist or a Mo supporter and I would be more than happy to see some fresh blood and new ideas behind the bench but because I don't think it'll happen yet, I can live with it (not that I have a choice) and focus on what else can and needs to be changed to make this team better moving forward.

I can't argue with any of your points about the coaching and agree with most of them, they're all well thought out and valid criticisms of Maurice's body of work. I wasn't nearly as articulate as you but to me they fall under the heading of 'head scratching coaching decisions'. The other point of my post is that if for some reason it 's decided to replace Maurice, the few viable options that are currently available might double in quantity and quality as teams get eliminated in the playoffs.

Your point about us being a small market and choosing a coach based on his ability to get the best out the players he's been given is well taken but wouldn't that apply to any market, low spending or big spending? Sure its more important when you have less of a roster to work with and while I'd love them to find that guy who can consistently get his players to overachieve, I don't think its realistic to think its possible to do consistently. In 06, Laviolette was able to get the team to overachieve but so did Maurice in 02. Neither was able to follow it up with consistent results.

Mine might not be a popular opinion but I think we saw the best this team had to give in the final stretch and it just wasn't enough to consistently match up to the teams on the other end of the ice. When you're seeing the best a team can give and they still fall short, the pendulum swings back to personnel for me and this team at no point of the season showed they were able to sustain a consistently high level of play for more than a few games a time. What I do think is that we have many of the pieces in place or coming along soon to be a consistent playoff team. A new coach with new ideas would be nice but a stronger and consistent defense would be better, my opinion only.

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The vigilante comment was my lame attempt at a little humor towards those in the hard lined "mo must go" camp. It wasn't meant as a sweeping generalization of everyone, sorry if it read like that. I guess I didn't do a good job with my post but the gist was that no matter what camp you're in, I think its more likely that Maurice will be given his last contract year to see if he can get more consistent results, the positive being that I also think his leash will be a short one and if things don't go well early, he'll be replaced.

I said that I wasn't a Mo apologist or a Mo supporter and I would be more than happy to see some fresh blood and new ideas behind the bench but because I don't think it'll happen yet, I can live with it (not that I have a choice) and focus on what else can and needs to be changed to make this team better moving forward.

I can't argue with any of your points about the coaching and agree with most of them, they're all well thought out and valid criticisms of Maurice's body of work. I wasn't nearly as articulate as you but to me they fall under the heading of 'head scratching coaching decisions'. The other point of my post is that if for some reason it 's decided to replace Maurice, the few viable options that are currently available might double in quantity and quality as teams get eliminated in the playoffs.

Your point about us being a small market and choosing a coach based on his ability to get the best out the players he's been given is well taken but wouldn't that apply to any market, low spending or big spending? Sure its more important when you have less of a roster to work with and while I'd love them to find that guy who can consistently get his players to overachieve, I don't think its realistic to think its possible to do consistently. In 06, Laviolette was able to get the team to overachieve but so did Maurice in 02. Neither was able to follow it up with consistent results.

Mine might not be a popular opinion but I think we saw the best this team had to give in the final stretch and it just wasn't enough to consistently match up to the teams on the other end of the ice. When you're seeing the best a team can give and they still fall short, the pendulum swings back to personnel for me and this team at no point of the season showed they were able to sustain a consistently high level of play for more than a few games a time. What I do think is that we have many of the pieces in place or coming along soon to be a consistent playoff team. A new coach with new ideas would be nice but a stronger and consistent defense would be better, my opinion only.

Okay gotcha, I misunderstood is all, sorry. It was funny though. :) With that said, I agree that Mo will likely be back. If so, like you, I'll move past it and focus on the personnel, while hoping his leash will be a short one. And you are are right, any team, regardless of market, wants a coach who can get the best out of his players. I can't or wouldn't argue with that. It will be interesting to see what happens after the playoffs in the coaching ranks. No doubt there could be more options if the axe were to fall.

And you won't have to convince me on the defensive issues. That's one thing I've never thought JR did a good job of, and if you remember, I was pretty vocal on that subject before the season started. I've never thought JR put as much emphasis on defense as he should, but that's just me. But, for the first time I can remember, we've got a good crop of defensive talent in our own system a couple of years away from being ready. That's exciting. And yes, to be fair, it would be nice to see what Mo could do with a real first pairing.

You a Julien fan? I've been reading some of the stuff in the Boston papers about him needing to deliver after that debacle in last year's playoffs. I've always thought he would be a good fit here. But, who's throwing around names.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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coastal good post and agree with it, but just a correction, this was mo's 2nd year full year,not first( he came in 2008/09)behind the bench in his 2nd go around, and that is what makes it worse, same tired sameness, same confusion, same disjointed play and eractic results always ahve with mo.

Fast forward. This year, in his first full season as head coach the second time around, what did I see? I saw a team on the ice that looked confused as to just what system they were supposed to be playing

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coastal good post and agree with it, but just a correction, this was mo's 2nd year full year,not first( he came in 2008/09)behind the bench in his 2nd go around, and that is what makes it worse, same tired sameness, same confusion, same disjointed play and eractic results always ahve with mo.

Yep, thanks!

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I consider good coaching the ability to get a team to usually meet their expectations while occasionallyexceeding expectations and winning some games they probably had no business winning.

If I give us the win over the Flyers and the win over the Wings, thats about all I can say we beat of teams that were clearly better and even then the Wings had injuries. I think when people look back at this season they will see just how mediocre it was (in the way of results) and how it took an upredictable 30 goal year from Jeff Skinner and a superhuman Cam Ward season to even produce what we got. Give Skinner 13 goals, and Cam Ward 60 starts and this team finishes in a dog fight for 13-15 in the East.

Our shift from Lav's offensive push with little defensive responibility has netted us last this year in shots allowed.

We easily lost more games against teams we could have beaten than we won against teams we should have lost to.

I think it reasonable to see the writing on the wall, and foolhardy of the ownership to devote more time to what has been proven out. If you had an investment that was losing money, how long would you lose money before you made a change? Paying out Maurice's contract would be one of the "cheapest" moves the franchise could make. Oleg Tverdosky, Kab, Brindy etc... This franchise can easily afford to make a coaching change if it has the will.

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