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coastal_caniac

The Official 2011-12 Off-Season Thread

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The sound of skate blades on ice. Hockey can't be that far off.

Camp Rosey (formerly Camp Brind'Amour) started today. CANESNOW

it was Chad LaRose doing most of the organizing and LaRose's voice being heard the most.

LaRose was quoted as saying he knew they were going to have a good year. I don't know about anyone else but I am beginning to detect a determination in this team. I hope it isn't just wishful thinking.

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Speaking of prospects, and just for kicks, I've listed who I think are the Canes top-10 prospects. In order, they are:

1. Zac Dalpe

2. Justin Faulk

3. Ryan Murphy

4. Zach Boychuk

5. Brian Dumoulin

6. Drayson Bowman

7. Victor Rask

8. Mark Alt

9. Riley Nash

10. Mike Murphy

Taking a blend of who's ready and who has the most upside, I'd pretty much agree with your list. If it is on pure upside, I'd slide Rask up to #5 or #6.

When I look at that list, and see Riley Nash I am reminded that prospects are prospects. With the upcoming Traverse City Tournament, consider this quote from the Hurricane's Website after last year's Traverse City Tournament:

Traverse City participants Zac Dalpe,Riley Nash and Jeff Skinner all have excellent chances of starting with the Hurricanes this season. Of the 20 players on the team’s roster, those three have stood out as expected.

”Those three guys have distinguished themselves from the rest of the camp,” said Rutherford.

I remember Riley Nash was trying to decide if he would sign with us, and consideration was being given to him being our third center in Raleigh. Down in Charlotte he ended up with an unimpressive .40 ppg, and .25 ppg in the playoffs. For perspective whipping boy, trade rumor Zac Boychuk put up 1.08 ppg. And Nash was actually drafted in Sutter's year, a year BEFORE Boychuk.

I was one really hoping that he was the real deal (mainly because we reeeeeeeaaaaaally needed a good third line center). I still do, but he is going to have to show something in Charlotte this year, or he will quickly drop off the top 10.

Still not giving up on Boychuk either.

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I think they were all blowing smoke up Nash's butt to try to get him to sign rather then play out his years at I think Cornell? and be even further behind in development. Your not going to get any better at hockey for the pro game at Cornell.

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So where the heck is Boychuk? Didn't JR call him out last year for not showing up until the start of training camp.

Canes Country had a story about him. Says he has been working out since July and is planning to come to Raleigh at the end of next week. I was wondering the same. I was hoping he would show up for Rosey camp. As long as he shows up in shape and ready to challenge for a spot I guess it will be ok.

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Y'all can hold out hope for this guy, but IMO, he just doesn't project to be anything special. I was done with the guy after Gleason wiped him out in the first preseason drill in camp last year. He never recovered, and was promptly dismissed to Charlotte. I see "deer in headlights" anytime Boychuk and the NHL are mentioned in the same sentence. With that said, I won't rag on the guy anymore, and will wait and see how things pan out. I hope I'm wrong though. :lol:

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I'm hoping but not holding out hope. IMO Boychuk either shows something this training camp or he is just one more prospect that needs a change of scenery. At the AHL level he shows well but disappears at the NHL level. I hope he has been working hard this off-season and I hope he does show up and earn a spot or at least show enough that he looks like he has a future in the NHL. He has to know this could be his last chance to make an impression.

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I don't really understand how Boychuk disappears at the NHL level? To me it's hard to disappear when you aren't given the chance to show up. The guy gets a handful of shifts with real talent when he's up. He mostly spent time on the 4th line getting less than 8 minutes a game. I'm wondering if Boychuk needs some regular linemates and a regular shift in order to succeed. Now after saying all this I don't believe Boychuk will make the team out of camp. I wouldn't be surprised if he steals a roster spot during the course of the season though.

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I don't really understand how Boychuk disappears at the NHL level? To me it's hard to disappear when you aren't given the chance to show up. The guy gets a handful of shifts with real talent when he's up. He mostly spent time on the 4th line getting less than 8 minutes a game. I'm wondering if Boychuk needs some regular linemates and a regular shift in order to succeed. Now after saying all this I don't believe Boychuk will make the team out of camp. I wouldn't be surprised if he steals a roster spot during the course of the season though.

He had his chance on the first line for cripes sake and didn't do anything. That's a better chance than almsot any prospect was given. He is just not NHL material. Dalpe is really the only prospect I liked.

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Zach Boychuk: 56 NHL games, 7 goals, 9 assists, 16 points, -1

There could be a reason he is promptly demoted to 3rd or 4th line cleanup roles, beyond just sweeping a broad brush and painting it like he hasn't been given an opportunity. He's certainly shown promise in Charlotte, let's hope he can finally take that to another level. Thus far, he hasn't, and JR called him out on his lack of preparation for training camp last year.

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I don't like giving up on him either but the truth is moving the kid while his value is high would be the smart thing to do. I mean we moved Ladd because we couldn't roll him into our top 2 lines and got Ruutu. I think Ladd had more to offer but trading Boychuk for an improvement or a lateral move to shake up another guy's development that's stalled could be a good move.

Boychuk has shown nothing here to suggest he either wants to be here or wants to give what it takes to be in the NHL. Watch him on the 3rd line, he doesn't keep up with the play and it's the frickin 3rd line. You can't put him on the 2nd line with that kind of effort we'll have a sunburn on Cam's neck.

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I've never liked Boychuck. I didn't like that draft pick, and have yet to be impressed with his game on the ice. His failure to show up when the other guys did, because he's playing golf, is just another nail in his Canes coffin. He was called out for not being in shape last year...so I hope for his sake that he's done HALF the work this summer that guys like Skinner have. Maybe he should look into going to Gary Robert's camp instead of playing in back to back to back golf tournaments....unless he thinks he has a future as a pro golfer?

This is where Skinner has been....

Edited by TheBigKahuna

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All I said was I'm not giving up on him.

This was Sutter's scoring line for his first 50 NHL games:

1 goal, 5 assists, -1. The next year? 21 goals.

Look, I agree with all the negatives on Boychuk so far. If he has work ethic issues that will be fatal. He has only shown little pockets of NHL ability. But I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate here. But I have seen flashes. He has the skills. Also, while I did see a guy who had stretches of looking out of place, I didn't see a guy not working. Further, yes there are definitely guys who can score in the AHL, but not so much in the NHL. He may be that, but I can't just totally ignore the greater than point per game in the AHL. It's not high school. And that's not a guy who is not playing hard.

As to his utter lost in the wilderness look at times. 1. That's just it, if he can get it to click the way Sutter did, that scoring will come. A lot of it is confidence. 2. If he was a complete disaster he would have had a Chad LaRose-like plus minus. There were 9 guys with worse plus minuses on the Canes last year.

As to trading him while his value is high, I guess it depends on how high his value actually is. Not so much if GM's read this board. Tlusty was a change of scenery trade also. (I'm not totally giving up on him either) th_scared.gif.

Some guys arrive later. Andrew Ladd is a pretty good example of that.

I would not break down in tears if JR moved Boychuk, especially if it were part of a big deal rather than just a lateral move, but I would not be upset if he got one more good look either.

Of course the practical reality at least at this point is that we are flush with wingers, and he'd have to get his chance through injury or a breakout camp/preseason.

Edited by remkin

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It looks like our top prospect Zac Dalpe impressed on his first day at Camp Rosey. Over at Canes Country they called him wicked fast, having fun and noted his impressive shot. Sounds like this kid might be the real deal.

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I really think you guys are trashing Boychuk way to hard. I still think he is a really good prospect and can be a future 1st/2nd line winger. Yes, he hasn't done a ton in the NHL given he only scored about 16 points in 56 games career games, but we do not give him the oppurtunity he needs to develop in the NHL. I think if we put him on the second line consistantly throughout a NHL season (not saying we should)-he would put up at least 40 points which is not that bad. He is only 21 years old. He has plenty of time to keep developing and like previous comments have stated, Brandon sutter didn't do well until he had his breakout year. Zac Dalpe is definitely the real deal and could be that missing winger Staal needs although I would love to see him on a line with Skinner. I still think Boychuk will be a good player one day, and we shouldn't give up on him like other prospects who have turned out to be good (Andrew Ladd, Radim Vrbata). One final note-I am really liking what I hear about Justin Shugg and Victor Rask..any thoughts on them?

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It looks like our top prospect Zac Dalpe impressed on his first day at Camp Rosey. Over at Canes Country they called him wicked fast, having fun and noted his impressive shot. Sounds like this kid might be the real deal.

He is definitely the #1 prospect. I think a lot of people, including Dalpe himself and JR will be shocked if he somehow doesn't make the big boys club this season.

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I really think you guys are trashing Boychuk way to hard. I still think he is a really good prospect and can be a future 1st/2nd line winger. Yes, he hasn't done a ton in the NHL given he only scored about 16 points in 56 games career games, but we do not give him the oppurtunity he needs to develop in the NHL. I think if we put him on the second line consistantly throughout a NHL season (not saying we should)-he would put up at least 40 points which is not that bad. He is only 21 years old. He has plenty of time to keep developing and like previous comments have stated, Brandon sutter didn't do well until he had his breakout year. Zac Dalpe is definitely the real deal and could be that missing winger Staal needs although I would love to see him on a line with Skinner. I still think Boychuk will be a good player one day, and we shouldn't give up on him like other prospects who have turned out to be good (Andrew Ladd, Radim Vrbata). One final note-I am really liking what I hear about Justin Shugg and Victor Rask..any thoughts on them?

No one's intending to trash the guy personally, some of us just don't see the upside relative to his draft position, based on how he's performed on the ice over 56 NHL games. Off the ice, the work ethic issue was first raised by JR, not any of us here. I remember that 2008 draft well, and I'll admit, I was incensed we took him. If we took a center, I had Jordan Eberle pegged as my choice. Plus, there were some pretty good defensive prospects still on the board. I think Del Zotto was taken not to far behind Boychuk.

IMO, Rask is solidly in the top-ten Canes prospects, and in an earlier post I had him pretty even with Bowman. I think Shugg has a ways to go, so I would put him at around 14 or so. I think guys like Levi and Terry are ahead of him, even Sanguinetti, of those I don't think are top-10 Canes prospects.

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It looks like our top prospect Zac Dalpe impressed on his first day at Camp Rosey. Over at Canes Country they called him wicked fast, having fun and noted his impressive shot. Sounds like this kid might be the real deal.

Went down to camp with my son today and yeah, Dalpe looks really good. He's filled out physically and he has the look of a real NHLer...showed speed, size, shot looked good, had a few nifty passes from the point. Looks every bit the top 6 forward. Stewart practiced today as well...definatly looked like the new guy out there a little out of place/sorts but you can see he's a very good skater...really makes it look effortless, he has good hands and he is a big dude.

Kudos to all the players as well who came out signed autographs, talked with fans, posed for pictures and made it a great morning for my son and I. The one exception to that was Bryan Allen who put his head down and litteraly shouldered his way past the crowd. Maybe he's having a bad day but I was unimpressed.

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Went down to camp with my son today and yeah, Dalpe looks really good. He's filled out physically and he has the look of a real NHLer...showed speed, size, shot looked good, had a few nifty passes from the point. Looks every bit the top 6 forward. Stewart practiced today as well...definatly looked like the new guy out there a little out of place/sorts but you can see he's a very good skater...really makes it look effortless, he has good hands and he is a big dude.

Kudos to all the players as well who came out signed autographs, talked with fans, posed for pictures and made it a great morning for my son and I. The one exception to that was Bryan Allen who put his head down and litteraly shouldered his way past the crowd. Maybe he's having a bad day but I was unimpressed.

Thanks for posting your impressions. I was hoping someone would go and post something. Sounds like a good time. I'm gonna guess Allen was indeed having a bad day.

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All I said was I'm not giving up on him.

This was Sutter's scoring line for his first 50 NHL games:

1 goal, 5 assists, -1. The next year? 21 goals.

Look, I agree with all the negatives on Boychuk so far. If he has work ethic issues that will be fatal. He has only shown little pockets of NHL ability. But I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate here. But I have seen flashes. He has the skills. Also, while I did see a guy who had stretches of looking out of place, I didn't see a guy not working. Further, yes there are definitely guys who can score in the AHL, but not so much in the NHL. He may be that, but I can't just totally ignore the greater than point per game in the AHL. It's not high school. And that's not a guy who is not playing hard.

As to his utter lost in the wilderness look at times. 1. That's just it, if he can get it to click the way Sutter did, that scoring will come. A lot of it is confidence. 2. If he was a complete disaster he would have had a Chad LaRose-like plus minus. There were 9 guys with worse plus minuses on the Canes last year.

As to trading him while his value is high, I guess it depends on how high his value actually is. Not so much if GM's read this board. Tlusty was a change of scenery trade also. (I'm not totally giving up on him either) th_scared.gif.

Some guys arrive later. Andrew Ladd is a pretty good example of that.

I would not break down in tears if JR moved Boychuk, especially if it were part of a big deal rather than just a lateral move, but I would not be upset if he got one more good look either.

Of course the practical reality at least at this point is that we are flush with wingers, and he'd have to get his chance through injury or a breakout camp/preseason.

Sutter "had the game" the first time he took NHL ice. It was like so apparent as the nose on your face. Yeah, he was slow to put the points together, but come on, comparing him to Boychuk's development is like comparing apples to kiwi fruit or something. And Rem, Sutter only played 39 games in the AHL, with Albany.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Sutter "had the game" the first time he took NHL ice. It was like so apparent as the nose on your face. Yeah, he was slow to put the points together, but come on, comparing him to Boychuk's development is like comparing apples to kiwi fruit or something. And Rem, Sutter only played 39 games in the AHL, with Albany.

I guess it's just a matter of when it is time to pull the plug on a prospect. Since prospects can "arrive" with their NHL game at vastly different times in their development, and since it doesn't cost much to let it play out, I tend to favor giving especially a high draft pick as many chances as possible. It's not just Sutter. Goals per year in NHL: 6, 11, 14,15, 17, 29. Andrew Ladd. He was the 4th overall pick.

There are many examples.

The AHL is clearly not the NHL, but it's not like Boychuk is struggling in the AHL. Greater than a point per game, and on a point per game basis, he was one of the top scorers in the league.

It's funny you mention Sutter's first game, because I remember Boychuk's first game. He was around the net, the puck seemed to find him, he just couldn't buy a goal. I sometimes wonder if things might have been different if one of those had gone in. So much is confidence.

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm sure that Boychuk is going to be the next Whitney, but that it is still too soon to give up in my opinion. This year will be interesting and I'd not be shocked if Zac is still here if he broke out. I'd probably be the only one though.

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I guess it's just a matter of when it is time to pull the plug on a prospect. Since prospects can "arrive" with their NHL game at vastly different times in their development, and since it doesn't cost much to let it play out, I tend to favor giving especially a high draft pick as many chances as possible. It's not just Sutter. Goals per year in NHL: 6, 11, 14,15, 17, 29. Andrew Ladd. He was the 4th overall pick.

There are many examples.

The AHL is clearly not the NHL, but it's not like Boychuk is struggling in the AHL. Greater than a point per game, and on a point per game basis, he was one of the top scorers in the league.

It's funny you mention Sutter's first game, because I remember Boychuk's first game. He was around the net, the puck seemed to find him, he just couldn't buy a goal. I sometimes wonder if things might have been different if one of those had gone in. So much is confidence.

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm sure that Boychuk is going to be the next Whitney, but that it is still too soon to give up in my opinion. This year will be interesting and I'd not be shocked if Zac is still here if he broke out. I'd probably be the only one though.

I think the thing I respond to here is the work ethic. And maybe that's not fair, because we really have no idea what Boychuk's offseason regimen is. But JR called him out on it last year, and you saw that Boychuk had very little time at the NHL level last year because of a lack of injuries.

And then you don't see him showing up at Rosey camp, and you hear about the golf thing, etc. So I think he's got NHL potential, and he's been on that bubble, but he doesn't appear -- at least in the limited that we hear about him -- to have that drive, that push, to make being an NHL'er a priority in his life.

Take LaRose in comparison. Could Boychuk be put on that 3rd line in Chad's place? Sure. Could he manage Chad points? Maybe... could be. But would he WORK AS HARD AS LaROSE? I don't think so. I think you look at someone like Chad and you can tell that he knows he has to put in 110% every day of his life to keep his job. The fact that he showed up to prospect camp, the fact that he's picked up the conditioning role that used to be Brind'amour's. I mean, there's an obvious DRIVE in Chad LaRose to want to be an NHL'er.

I just don't get that from Boychuk. So while the skill is there, I just don't see the drive, the work ethic. If he was as skilled as a Crosby or a Staal, he could probably get away with marginalizing that to some degree, but he doesn't have that level of talent.

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I think the thing I respond to here is the work ethic. And maybe that's not fair, because we really have no idea what Boychuk's offseason regimen is. But JR called him out on it last year, and you saw that Boychuk had very little time at the NHL level last year because of a lack of injuries.

And then you don't see him showing up at Rosey camp, and you hear about the golf thing, etc. So I think he's got NHL potential, and he's been on that bubble, but he doesn't appear -- at least in the limited that we hear about him -- to have that drive, that push, to make being an NHL'er a priority in his life.

Take LaRose in comparison. Could Boychuk be put on that 3rd line in Chad's place? Sure. Could he manage Chad points? Maybe... could be. But would he WORK AS HARD AS LaROSE? I don't think so. I think you look at someone like Chad and you can tell that he knows he has to put in 110% every day of his life to keep his job. The fact that he showed up to prospect camp, the fact that he's picked up the conditioning role that used to be Brind'amour's. I mean, there's an obvious DRIVE in Chad LaRose to want to be an NHL'er.

I just don't get that from Boychuk. So while the skill is there, I just don't see the drive, the work ethic. If he was as skilled as a Crosby or a Staal, he could probably get away with marginalizing that to some degree, but he doesn't have that level of talent.

I just wonder sometimes how much of this "lack of motivation" we project onto these guys, and how much is really there.

I have no idea. If you guys are right and he has a serious motivation issue, then I agree, he will not make it and JR should get what he can for him.

But the guy put up > 1 ppg in Charlotte. It is hard to believe that he has no motivation to be an NHL hockey player. He plays a charity golf tournament and all the sudden he doesn't want to be an NHL hockey player? JR called him out, that is not good. JR called out Hamilton and where is he now? But the Boychuk call out was last year. Maybe Zac's ppg was a response to that. Then again, JR also said Nash had a great shot to make the team this time last year. Yet, I'm also reminded of Patrick O'Sullivan, a guy with serious skills who just didn't have the "it" factor. There were early concerns about his defensive play. So I am ambivalent on Boychuk. Can you tell?

On the other hand, clearly Mo stresses guys like Boychuk getting back and playing defense. It can be hard for a kid who has to score to earn his keep, but also has to focus on getting back. Just ask Sutter, or even minus 10 Staal. He has to find some offense while not looking too out of place and still back checking. So far, not so good at the NHL level. Pretty darned good at the AHL level. But while some guys never find the NHL game, others find it late (Stewart).

Again, I'm not saying he's the next big thing. Just still holding out hope and still think he has upside. This will only happen if the concerns about motivation are more ours than anyone else's. On that, who knows?

Edited by remkin

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