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2011-12 Salary Cap set at $64 mil with the floor being $48 mil

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Ugh, not sure why the lock out ever happened. At least JR has some spending to do.

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Im more concerned with whether or not we can keep affording the salary min cap and missing the playoffs without a real second investor.....a real one not a group of companies doing a one time buy in

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Good article today from Luke at the N&0:

Rutherford Discusses Salary-Cap Pinch

Submitted by ldecock on 06/25/2011 - 14:45

"As you know, the floor’s gone to $48.3 (million)," Rutherford said. "That raises our payroll just with that alone. I would suspect we'll be a little bit higher than that. It's certainly getting that payroll to a point where it makes it harder to make our business work the way it should. (Karmanos) has been good about it, if there’s a shortfall, to be there to make it up.

"As for where that number would fall, Rutherford wasn't sure, although he was optimistic enough to believe he would have the funds to re-sign Jussi Jokinen and Joni Pitkanen, a 180-degree turn from his previous position.

Full Article Here

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With the larger market teams in the East able to spend more to bet better, and the smaller market teams struggling to make ends meet near the cap floor, even coming in 9th, as we did last year is going to be tougher going forward. I'm nervous about this trend, which makes finding a true investor, as Legend pointed out, and drafting well even more important.

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I agree with both coastal and legend. We need to find an investor and it is going to get harder for small market teams building a winner. I'm a little nervous but hopeful it might all get worked out in the near future.

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This is definitely concerning, small market teams are getting a bit of a shafting with this ballooning salary cap. I guess the league is a lot happier now with larger market teams like boston winning cups and they want to keep it that way.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong... but wasn't our payroll when we won the cup about half of the cap FLOOR now? (Before the weight and recchi deals)

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I agree wih all about the investor situation. Has anyone heard any tidbits about the status of that recently ???

In this case, I am not sure "no news is good news".

But sounds like PK has given Jr the go ahead to go a few million above the floor. (from his latest

comments to N&O)

I wonder how the season ticket sales are going? Many are on the last year of the 3 year price freeze.

Anyone heard anything about that?

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I agree wih all about the investor situation. Has anyone heard any tidbits about the status of that recently ???

In this case, I am not sure "no news is good news".

It was back in mid February when PK jr. was quoted as saying there was a group of investors interested in buying into the Canes. He said at the time it could take 2 or 3 months to finalize a deal. Those deals are complicated so maybe it is just taking more time or maybe the deal fell through. I haven't seen anything recently.

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Agree on the ownership issue, but the higher mid-point likely means a greater amount of League Revenue Sharing to the Canes. I don't think it covers the whole upward shift, but takes part of the sting out of the amount.

The gap remains $16MM from min-to-max for every team (same as last year). For every owner it's part of doing business. The only way out of this is to win and make the playoffs. Easy, right? :)

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Jr said in his postseason presser that karmanos was trying to buy the remaining shares for himself. I love karmanos, but as an owner it's your responsibility to put your team in the best position to succeed.

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All right, fine. I can't take all this gnashing of teeth. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this as I have enough trouble affording tickets, but then I got to thinking, if I buy half the team, I should get in for free, right? So fine, I'll buy it. Where do I sign?

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All right, fine. I can't take all this gnashing of teeth. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this as I have enough trouble affording tickets, but then I got to thinking, if I buy half the team, I should get in for free, right? So fine, I'll buy it. Where do I sign?

Just sign on the dotted line, I'd be happy to pass it along :grin:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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All right, fine. I can't take all this gnashing of teeth. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this as I have enough trouble affording tickets, but then I got to thinking, if I buy half the team, I should get in for free, right? So fine, I'll buy it. Where do I sign?

Only if you buy 51% of the team.:mellow:

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I wonder how the season ticket sales are going? Many are on the last year of the 3 year price freeze.

Anyone heard anything about that?

don't know about other STH, but I had to downgrade from a 26 game plan to a 12 game plan.

The two guys who sit next to me go to my church shared a 26 gameand they are not renewing at all.

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So how much of this cap and floor increase do we suspect has to do with current strength of the Canadian dollar?

That's a great question and one I also asked a while back when the cap discussions were going on. Here is a quote from Gary Bettman:

"Whether or not the Canadian dollar goes up or down will impact what the cap will be next year," said Bettman, who reminded owners the Canadian dollar was at about 84-85 cents at this time a year ago.

"Now we're talking 94-95," Bettman said. "That impacts it. If it's at 95 cents and stays there for the rest of the year, the cap will go up a million or so. If the Canadian drops under 90, it may be down a half a million or so. All of these prognostications of 10 and 20 percent declines, that's not going to happen."

And to really see how things are affected by the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Canadian and US dollar, then read through this article published in 2008, when the US dollar was strong compared to the Canadian dollar. See:

Will the US dollar sink the salary cap

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Agree on the ownership issue, but the higher mid-point likely means a greater amount of League Revenue Sharing to the Canes. I don't think it covers the whole upward shift, but takes part of the sting out of the amount.

The gap remains $16MM from min-to-max for every team (same as last year). For every owner it's part of doing business. The only way out of this is to win and make the playoffs. Easy, right? :)

The CBA requires the Cane's average paid attendance to be above 14,000 to receive full revenue sharing. Missing that target however, only drops their share 25%. In 2010-11 the Canes were just above 16,000. So that's good.

But the bad news is there is another criteria that a team also has to meet to receive their full share. As I understand the CBA, a club has to generate a year-to-year revenue growth rate in excess of the league revenue growth rate in a given year. I think that's where small market teams run into trouble, and rely on other revenue streams like corporate sponsorships, stronger ticket sales, and making the playoffs to make up the shortfall.

Right now, with the way the economy is, and since revenue growth is measured in US dollars, the growth rate is relatively flat. But, the rise in value of the Canadian dollar inflates the revenue of Canadian teams, and thus, the whole league.

Bottom line, I don't think the sky is falling with respect to the financial aspects of what the team gets from the league, but it's important the Canes continue to push attendance figures and attract corporate sponsers, etc.

Plus, making the playoffs more than once every 4 years doesn't hurt either. It seems a single playoff round can make up the revenue shortfall of a team that doesn't meet attendance figures and falls short of meeting the league revenue growth, to the point of possibly putting a team in the black.

Note: This is just my interpretation of the stuff I've looked into, so if anyone can do a better job explaining this please do so.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Agree on the ownership issue, but the higher mid-point likely means a greater amount of League Revenue Sharing to the Canes. I don't think it covers the whole upward shift, but takes part of the sting out of the amount.

The gap remains $16MM from min-to-max for every team (same as last year). For every owner it's part of doing business. The only way out of this is to win and make the playoffs. Easy, right? :)

$16M is two superstars. In fact it's hard to find two guys who come up to this, except at the very top of the salary mountain.

For all those "it's not just about how much you spend" arguers, $16 million instantly allows room for Chara and Crosby on your team on top of whatever you already have. What do you think: Chara for Harrison, Crosby (obviously assuming no concussion) for LaRose.

Tell me that wouldn't fix a few problems and make us just a tad better.

Want Richards? No problem, how about the best free agent defenseman also, and sign Cole and Jussi also.

No, that wouldn't make us any better than if we didn't spend it. shakeshead.gif

Maybe el cheapo isn't fair, but this team is not continuously just missing the playoffs because of "rebuilding". It is missing due to unequal constraints on bringing in top flight free agents, not as the core, but as key pieces.

The relative value of this is even greater because teams that can go out and pick up a guy can get a very good player to fill a weakness, not just a random player.

Add a faceoff winning stud second line center and TWO solid shut down defenders and a vet back up goalie to last year's team and tell me they couldn't find one more win.

$16 million could have done all of that.

I know it's just the way it is. But it also is what it is.

Edited by remkin

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The CBA requires the Cane's average paid attendance to be above 14,000 to receive full revenue sharing. Missing that target however, only drops their share 25%. In 2010-11 the Canes were just above 16,000. So that's good.

But the bad news is there is another criteria that a team also has to meet to receive their full share. As I understand the CBA, a club has to generate a year-to-year revenue growth rate in excess of the league revenue growth rate in a given year. I think that's where small market teams run into trouble, and rely on other revenue streams like corporate sponsorships, stronger ticket sales, and making the playoffs to make up the shortfall.

Right now, with the way the economy is, and since revenue growth is measured in US dollars, the growth rate is relatively flat. But, the rise in value of the Canadian dollar inflates the revenue of Canadian teams, and thus, the whole league.

Bottom line, I don't think the sky is falling with respect to the financial aspects of what the team gets from the league, but it's important the Canes continue to push attendance figures and attract corporate sponsers, etc.

Plus, making the playoffs more than once every 4 years doesn't hurt either. It seems a single playoff round can make up the revenue shortfall of a team that doesn't meet attendance figures and falls short of meeting the league revenue growth, to the point of possibly putting a team in the black.

Note: This is just my interpretation of the stuff I've looked into, so if anyone can do a better job explaining this please do so.

Interesting stuff. Sounds like the league wants to help those who help themselves. Not a bad policy.

So the trick is to find a way to get into the playoffs with one superstar and one star less than the top teams, while increasing attendance. But attendance for a market like ours is closely linked with winning, especially at home. So the team needs to spend that much less but still win. Tricky business. Glad we have JR.

Given that the cap has gone up as has the floor, we might as well sign our FA's (I'd let LaRose walk unless he'll take a big pay cut, but sign everyone else).

Now this does make us the same team as last year. BUT, then I would trade Joni for a stay at home type big name dman.

While the team would be "the same" up front, if even one of Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, or Tlusty breakout, we are one (cheap) 20 goal scorer better than Dwyer or LaRose. Plus, while I completely appreciate Sutter's shut down season, I fully expect more offense from him this year also. And more than one of the prospects could break out.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still like to switch out Joni for a top shutdown guy, sign Cole and Jussi and add at least a playmaking second line center, if not a top line winger, and a cap team could do that and a lot more, but we are not a cap team.th_sad.gif

Edited by remkin

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Good discussion and nice breakdown Coastal.

I don't get to tune into XM all that much anymore but I did flip it on this morning just in time to catch this comment:

"Jimmy Rutherford is one of the GM's that's gone on record saying the new cap sucks."

It made me chuckle, carry on......

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I do get concerned about hockey in the south with the way the cap is going. Obviously exhibit A is Atlanta, and exhibit B is Phoenix. How long the NHL can keep hockey in Arizona is an open question, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yotes move north after this next season.

Rumors out of TB are that despite their deep run they lost upwards of $20M last season. Florida hasn't made the playoffs in 10 seasons and apparently struggles to fill their arena. Nashville at least made the post-season and, like us, don't have a lot of other professional teams in the area pulling attention away from them. Dallas missed the post-season and with football and basketball being big draws in Texas, you have to wonder how they're doing as well.

In short, the push into the south appears to have drawn to a close and could see some retraction, moreso than just Atlanta, over the next 5-10 years. Gretzky going to LA really made "warm weather hockey" a reality and opened the gates for a lot of this southern movement. And now we see hockey having outstanding revenue growth league-wide... but I think that masks concerns for the small market teams... and I think a lot of those small market teams tend to be here in the south.

It's definitely concerning. I love the Canes... but PK has moved them once already.

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Yes, this is unsettling.. I think the only thing that would make us all feel better about the rising cap is if the Canes could CONSISTANTLY make the playoffs.. The funny thing is we actually have the team makeup to do so. We have our first line Center in Staal we have our franchise all-star goalie in Ward, we have our sniper in Skinner, our top Defensive forward in Sutter. Really, all that needs to be revamped is the D; and I think if we can do that we will see this team make the playoffs for years to come. But we have to do it now - Staal and Ward are in their prime - the time to win is now.

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Raleigh/Triangle is barely a $50M payroll market. Need about $85-$90 millon revenue package to make that salary work. That is why when I hear suppoive Canes fans complain about not spending and then complaining about ticket/parking/beer prices, I cringe.

Canes will get more in TV rev with new deal and with Charlotte coming on board, need to pull in some of those charlotte corps to become sponsors.

This is where the fan base needs to step up, go to games, support the team. Raleigh is at that critical point of which way do the fans go.

I aslo agree on a good minority owner but not sure who signs up to pay $$ loses especially with no control. I followed the ATL purchase and at the last moment, a family from NC was looking at buying the Thrashers. Wonder who they were and have talked to PK.

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I think the reality is this:

Low attendance doesn't punish the smaller market teams to the point where their league revenue sharing is out the window, but they do take the 25% penalty for falling below 14,000 in average paid attendance.

But in these times, where the Canadian dollar is on par with the US dollar, the Canadian teams inflate the value of the league, and thus the cap is inflated and goes up. So, with the US economy struggling, a smaller market team may have problems keeping up with the rate of growth in league revenues. Particularly with attendance and\or corporate sponsers staying away, and our case, an owner who's looking to sell some part of the team.

So, for teams like the Canes, who have decent attendance, but struggle or fall short of keeping pace with the league's growth in revenue, that could amount to a loss of 3-5 million dollars in revenue sharing.

While making the playoffs regularly can put us in the black, spending too much over the cap floor is a risk. If you aren't growing your fan base and sponsorships (corporate partners, corporate suites, etc.), and have ownership shortfalls, how much is PK willing to risk losing his own money?

While it's easy to say we have all this cap room then why not spend some more on players, you have to consider the risks. I keep that in mind when considering the budget the team has to work with. It's not my money. What's frustrating is making the playoffs could remedy or mitigate a lot of those shortfalls, but with the larger market teams spending closer to the cap, it's almost impossible to keep pace without spending a ton more money on players, and therefore, increasing your risks. Talk about a vicious circle.

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