2011-12 Team News, Practice Updates & In-between Game Talk

[jeromeo87]

I'm pretty sure that Rutuu was drafted as a center. So center is his natural position. Putting him on the wing is playing him out of position..

Ruutu is just AWFUL at faceoffs..

[remkin]

Uh, no, in six years with the Canes he's averaged 11 goals and 24 points a season. He scored 16 last year, and along with it came that ugly -21, which dilutes that goal total just a litte. Dwyer had 18 points last year playing largely on the fourth line. I'd bet money he can put up 25 playing with Sutter, which by all accounts, is right there at what you get with LaRose, on average. Plus, he's a better all around hockey player.

I also don't think LaRose is fast enough to play with Sutter and Tlusty, Dwyer is. Love Chad and his work ethic, but he's an albatross out there, he just doesn't plug in anywhere in the top-9, unless we haven't learned anything from last year.

Uh, yes.

LaRose has averaged 15 goals per year the last 3 seasons, and one of those seasons he only played 56 games. He almost hit 20 goals one year.

Show me where Dwyer has done that.

[jfive]

Uh, yes.

LaRose has averaged 15 goals per year the last 3 seasons, and one of those seasons he only played 56 games. He almost hit 20 goals one year.

Show me where Dwyer has done that.

I've found that most of the time "almost" just doesn't cut it.

[witchking-ch1]

I've found that most of the time "almost" just doesn't cut it.

Right. Dwyer is almost like LaRose, for instance. :-)

Edited October 21, 2011 by witchking-ch1

[jeromeo87]

Right. Dwyer is almost like LaRose, for instance. :-)

Witchking has a point.. 15 goals a year is a nice chunk of goals. Dwyer has never produced that..

[jeromeo87]

Could be one reason why JR has put a big Band-Aid on it for now. No sense locking down another long-term contract for a center if you believe that in 1-2 years you'll have 5 of them fighting for 4 spots (Staal, Sutter, Brent, Nash and Rask).

And that doesn't even take into account a guy like Matsumoto...

Yeah, I think all 5 guys will be competing for 4 center positions; but, I think the real compeition is between Nash and Rask. Who makes the team?

As for this year, I still think we need a 2nd line center to honestly consider this team a competitor. We need to find a center with one year remaining on his contract.

Jarret Stoll?

Olli Jokinen?

Jason Arnott?

Chris Kelly?

Kyle Wellwood?

And as for Matsumoto, I think he deserves to be in the NHL. He's putting up big numbers in Charlotte. We just don't have the room for him in Raleigh.

Edited October 21, 2011 by jeromeo87

[coastal_caniac]

Uh, yes.

LaRose has averaged 15 goals per year the last 3 seasons, and one of those seasons he only played 56 games. He almost hit 20 goals one year.

Show me where Dwyer has done that.

You said: ".....For me I'd put LaRose there because he has put up 20 goals or near that pretty consistently...."

So, when you originally said pretty consistently I took that to mean the time frame in which he suited up for the team. He's also never scored 20 goals, he scored 19 in 08-09 and 16 last year. Aside from those 2 years, where he put up 31 points, he's never scored more than 11 goals. With that said, you may be right using only the last 3 years as a better barometer. Time will tell.

Obviously, Dwyer hasn't done that. But regardless, right now, I still think Dwyer is the better all-around hockey player. And to be clear again, I don't hate LaRose.

Edit: I also regret getting this whole thing going by starting with "I don't get all the LaRose love". Dadgum.

Edited October 21, 2011 by coastal_caniac

[remkin]

Well I guess if we go back to his first full season, he only had 6 goals, though he was exclusively 4th line then.

Since then he has effectively been at a about 17 goals per year when injuries are accounted for. I know, I know, people hate that, but you can't really fault a guy for not scoring if he's not in the line up. The two 11 goal campaigns were 56 and 58 game seasons.

So a healthy Chad LaRose is good for around 17 goals per year.

Also, Chad's plus minus last year was an abberation from his career and likey from trying to check the first line and play with Eric "I'm going in, cover me" Staal.

Dwyer does a lot of good things, but the guy seems to be unable to finish at the NHL level consistently. He brings so much else that he is a great role player, but..

You asked why anyone would want LaRose over Dwyer.

I'm saying that the only reason would be to get about 10 more goals per year from the 3rd line. On the 4th line, Dwyer in a heartbeat. On the third....kind of a wash in my opinion.

Edited October 21, 2011 by remkin

[coastal_caniac]

Well I guess if we go back to his first full season, he only had 6 goals, though he was exclusively 4th line then.

Since then he has effectively been at a about 17 goals per year when injuries are accounted for. I know, I know, people hate that, but you can't really fault a guy for not scoring if he's not in the line up. The two 11 goal campaigns were 56 and 58 game seasons.

So a healthy Chad LaRose is good for around 17 goals per year.

Also, Chad's plus minus last year was an abberation from his career and likey from trying to check the first line and play with Eric "I'm going in, cover me" Staal.

Dwyer does a lot of good things, but the guy seems to be unable to finish at the NHL level consistently. He brings so much else that he is a great role player, but..

You asked why anyone would want LaRose over Dwyer.

I'm saying that the only reason would be to get about 10 more goals per year from the 3rd line. On the 4th line, Dwyer in a heartbeat. On the third....kind of a wash in my opinion.

Oh no, the phantom goals again? Say it aint so. Your reason is good enough for me, and I would suspect more often than not that would be the reply. But, it is a checking line. I think I would be willing to give up a little production if it saved me some goals in my own net. And that's what Dwyer gives you over LaRose, at least in my mind. And I still think Dwyer can put up 25 points on a speedy line with Sutter and Tlusty.

[remkin]

I will say this, I don't think LaRose is the problem, but he is the most achingly obvious symptom. The third line is no problem at all. In fact we have really strong 3rd and 4th lines whether LaRose is there or Tlusty/Dwyer or Dalpe or Stewart, Brent. We are really good down there.

And if we shift things around just right we have a pretty good second line also.

But if we shift things around to make lines 2-4 look really good, we are left with Staal, one guy and Blank.

Of course this is just another way of saying that what we need is..........OK I won't say it again.

I really don't see a trade coming for a while anyway.

So at this point, when it comes to Mr. LaRose, my only request is: not on the top line, not ever. Try Poni, Try Stewart. Try Boychuk again for crying out loud, but not LaRose.

[remkin]

The only thing I would add is that given that our first line is not as much of a scoring line as we'd like, we might need more scoring from the third line over time than we would if the first line were pumping in tons of goals. Still, Tlusty/Sutter/Dwyer is a very good checking line. I think Tlusty and Sutter can both put up close to 20 though, so Dwyer doesn't really have to in the end.

[jeromeo87]

During this five-game point streak, nine of the team's 13 goals have come from the 3rd and 4th line and the defense. This means the top two lines have only made up for 30.7% of the team's goals during this stretch.

[dinz]

u will wina few, , ,lose a few, if first line doesnt produce more.. im with u rem, tied of mentioning the T word, if they want to be a playoff team.. well.. im wasting my breath

[TSA]

10/24 Practice Update

• Faulk recalled from Charlotte
• 1st line is Ruutu-Staal-Ponikarovski
• 2nd line LaRose -Jokinen-Skinner
• Joslin skating on 4th line, Stewart not skating today

[MILO81]

Per Chip Alexander's Twitter:

ice_chip Chip Alexander

Faulk's recall could just be step one. We'll see.

Not sure what to make of this but it's something.

[witchking-ch1]

10/24 Practice Update

• Faulk recalled from Charlotte
• 1st line is Ruutu-Staal-Ponikarovski
• 2nd line LaRose -Jokinen-Skinner
• Joslin skating on 4th line, Stewart not skating today

Ugh. I really wish Mo would do something to help that top line. I guess we have to leave it to JR to do something.

We *should* be able to handle Ottawa at home even with this setup.

[TSA]

The more I think about it the more LaRose is starting to feel like the new Sammy. Sammy jumped between the 1st and 4th lines all last season because they didn't have any definite place where he fit in, until he was ultimately traded to Florida as a salary dump. There are definitely some differences in skill level between LaRose and Sammy and the fact that Sammy was in the last year of his contract helped to make the decision easier for JR, but the question is still the same...where does LaRose play that gives this team the best chance to win without disrupting the 3rd and 4th lines?

[jeromeo87]

Faulk recalled.. Joslin practicing on 4th line. No sign of Stewart..

Mo told media Stewart has a lower body injury. Also, Faulk will not play against Ottawa.

Edited October 24, 2011 by jeromeo87

[remkin]

where does LaRose play that gives this team the best chance to win without disrupting the 3rd and 4th lines?

Edmonton. Oh that was too easy!

[TSA]

Edmonton. Oh that was too easy!

Ok, this made me laugh

Thanks, I needed that this morning.

[coastal_caniac]

The more I think about it the more LaRose is starting to feel like the new Sammy. Sammy jumped between the 1st and 4th lines all last season because they didn't have any definite place where he fit in, until he was ultimately traded to Florida as a salary dump. There are definitely some differences in skill level between LaRose and Sammy and the fact that Sammy was in the last year of his contract helped to make the decision easier for JR, but the question is still the same...where does LaRose play that gives this team the best chance to win without disrupting the 3rd and 4th lines?

That's the question I was asking everyone. And as I said, right now, he's an albatross out there, he fits nowhere without disrupting the chemistry on that third line. No way Mo puts him on the fourth line.

[witchking-ch1]

That's the question I was asking everyone. And as I said, right now, he's an albatross out there, he fits nowhere without disrupting the chemistry on that third line. No way Mo puts him on the fourth line.

Wow. We continue the LaRose bashing.

LaRose's +/- sucks! Through 8 games he's only -2 (not bad).

LaRose never gets any assists! Through 8 games, 1g, 3a (not bad).

I get that LaRose doesn't belong in the top 6. I've said that myself a number of times. But I'd take the production he is providing and switch out Dwyer (who's scored bupkus so far) on that 3rd line. I still think a Tlusty/Sutter/LaRose line is stronger than one with Dwyer.

But of course we lack a top-6 forward (or 2) to move up. Stewart? Not that guy. Poni doesn't appear to belong up there either.

Sigh... I see a long season of Mo switching things around to try and get Staal going while keeping Skinner going. With little talent to help. I'd be willing to call up Boychuk and stick him on the 1st line for a while just to see what would happen. I still think the best 1st line would be Jokinen/Staal/Poni, but it's clear that we don't want to disrupt the chemistry and Jokinen and Skinner have, and I wouldn't want to get one line going if it meant crushing another.

For now, LaRose is actually working with Jokinen and Skinner. The three of them are scoring for us. It's not ideal, but what about this team is (besides Cam)?

[coastal_caniac]

Wow. We continue the LaRose bashing.

LaRose's +/- sucks! Through 8 games he's only -2 (not bad).

LaRose never gets any assists! Through 8 games, 1g, 3a (not bad).

I get that LaRose doesn't belong in the top 6. I've said that myself a number of times. But I'd take the production he is providing and switch out Dwyer (who's scored bupkus so far) on that 3rd line. I still think a Tlusty/Sutter/LaRose line is stronger than one with Dwyer.

But of course we lack a top-6 forward (or 2) to move up. Stewart? Not that guy. Poni doesn't appear to belong up there either.

Sigh... I see a long season of Mo switching things around to try and get Staal going while keeping Skinner going. With little talent to help. I'd be willing to call up Boychuk and stick him on the 1st line for a while just to see what would happen. I still think the best 1st line would be Jokinen/Staal/Poni, but it's clear that we don't want to disrupt the chemistry and Jokinen and Skinner have, and I wouldn't want to get one line going if it meant crushing another.

For now, LaRose is actually working with Jokinen and Skinner. The three of them are scoring for us. It's not ideal, but what about this team is (besides Cam)?

Dang withchking, how is that comment LaRose bashing? I think the point being made was he does seem to be in no-man's land in that he doesn't belong on the top two lines, and moving him back to the third COULD disrupt the chemistry on that line. TSA was making the point it's similar to the Catch-22 Sammy found himself in. I kind of agree with that. I'm happy with Dwyer on the third line, but that points been made.

[witchking-ch1]

Dang withchking, how is that comment LaRose bashing? I think the point being made was he does seem to be in no-man's land in that he doesn't belong on the top two lines, and moving him back to the third COULD disrupt the chemistry on that line. TSA was making the point it's similar to the Catch-22 Sammy found himself in. I kind of agree with that. I'm happy with Dwyer on the third line, but that points been made.

Sorry, saw the "albatross" comment and assumed bashing. I agree he's a bit of a fish out of water, like Sammy was, at this point. But I think you'd also have to agree that the Skinner/Jokinen/LaRose line is actually producing right now and that LaRose at 4 pts in 8 games isn't to blame for the team's lack of said production. :-)

[coastal_caniac]

Sorry, saw the "albatross" comment and assumed bashing. I agree he's a bit of a fish out of water, like Sammy was, at this point. But I think you'd also have to agree that the Skinner/Jokinen/LaRose line is actually producing right now and that LaRose at 4 pts in 8 games isn't to blame for the team's lack of said production. :-)

I would agree with that completely. Just as I'm sure you would agree that 9 points in 8 games, including a game winner, from the checking line of Tlusty-Sutter-Dwyer isn't too shabby either.