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2011-12 Team News, Practice Updates & In-between Game Talk

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Edmonton is playing the young guys, and yes, playing well, love to see this trade go, will have to look around to see what i can come up with..

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McBain & Stewart for Hemsky & Horcoff would result in 10m additional salary. I don't see the organization going for that. Even McBain for Hemsky would add over 4m, which I think would be more than they would really like. Perhaps that is why Allen's name has cropped up in trade rumors - the will want some salary going out to take on salary. The difference between Hemsky and Allen would be under 2m, which I would think would be more palatable.

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McBain & Stewart for Hemsky & Horcoff would result in 10m additional salary. I don't see the organization going for that. Even McBain for Hemsky would add over 4m, which I think would be more than they would really like. Perhaps that is why Allen's name has cropped up in trade rumors - the will want some salary going out to take on salary. The difference between Hemsky and Allen would be under 2m, which I would think would be more palatable.

Two quotes from JR make me believe whatever deal is found will 1) be fair value both ways and 2) won't include Allen.

"There are good players on other teams that have gotten off to slow starts that may come available," he said. "But we've got to figure out how to trade an apple for an apple. We're not in a position to take on an extra contract. It becomes a little trickier than going out and picking a guy up."

and

He pointed to Bryan Allen as a player whose leadership is an asset on the bench and behind the scenes, "but we don't have many guys like that," he added.

But I agree, Edmonton would be a good trade partner.

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These trade rumors are a nice distraction so keep it up!

In general i agree JR is looking to trade before moving Mo.

It is a tough time of year to trade but getting better all the time.

I want a move as much (or more) than anyone, and I want that first line player just as much. Further, I want JR to move his "make the deal needle" over to the trade side. Still, lets not make a stupid panic move. I know I said even a bad move would be worth doing, but not a REALLY bad move.

OK, that said. I am loving Hemsky's name, but not loving giving up McBain. Hemsky, if healthy and signed for 3 or 4 years is absolutely worth McBain, but Hemsky, while a point a game guy, has never been consistently healthy, and is not signed for next year.

I am all for getting Hemsky for the rest of the year, but not so fast for McBain. I know he has not developed as fast as wanted, but he is going to be a top offensive dman in this league for a long time and those are coveted.

If we trade McBain, it would have to be for a blue chip offensive "prospect" who has shown some really serious talent at the NHL level, or the deal would have to include someone like Kaberle moving the other way, and at least a decent offensive prospect coming our way.

Also, the conditional part should include provisions for how many games Hemsky plays in this year.

But make no mistake about it. A healthy Hemsky would instantly reignite our offense, our powerplay, Staal and the fan base. So overpay for him if you need to, but if McBain is in that deal there needs to be some balancing with other players in there.

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These trade rumors are a nice distraction so keep it up!

In general i agree JR is looking to trade before moving Mo.

It is a tough time of year to trade but getting better all the time.

I want a move as much (or more) than anyone, and I want that first line player just as much. Further, I want JR to move his "make the deal needle" over to the trade side. Still, lets not make a stupid panic move. I know I said even a bad move would be worth doing, but not a REALLY bad move.

OK, that said. I am loving Hemsky's name, but not loving giving up McBain. Hemsky, if healthy and signed for 3 or 4 years is absolutely worth McBain, but Hemsky, while a point a game guy, has never been consistently healthy, and is not signed for next year.

I am all for getting Hemsky for the rest of the year, but not so fast for McBain. I know he has not developed as fast as wanted, but he is going to be a top offensive dman in this league for a long time and those are coveted.

If we trade McBain, it would have to be for a blue chip offensive "prospect" who has shown some really serious talent at the NHL level, or the deal would have to include someone like Kaberle moving the other way, and at least a decent offensive prospect coming our way.

Also, the conditional part should include provisions for how many games Hemsky plays in this year.

But make no mistake about it. A healthy Hemsky would instantly reignite our offense, our powerplay, Staal and the fan base. So overpay for him if you need to, but if McBain is in that deal there needs to be some balancing with other players in there.

Hey Rem, I know you are worried about losing McBain, but to get quality, you sometimes have to give up quality. We have a better if not the best replacement for Mcbain already in the pipeline in Ryan Murphy. I know it stinks to lose a guy like Jamie, but if the outcome is a player of Hemsky's magnitude, then I'm all in! That's basically trading an All-Star for another All-Star. Also on the plus side as well, Murphy is gonna come cheaper than McBain will because he (Mcbain) is an RFA and looking for more dollars. Therefor saving more money for that contract extension for Hemmer! We need that playmaker up front for Staal, so if it has to come at the expense of losing McBain, then I say go for it! With all the O-Dmen we currently have, it will bye the team a bit more time to develop Murphy into the All-Star that McBain was! He will be rock solid! Just believe!

Edited by shauniac79

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Hey Rem, I know you are worried about losing McBain, but to get quality, you sometimes have to give up quality. We have a better if not the best replacement for Mcbain already in the pipeline in Ryan Murphy. I know it stinks to lose a guy like Jamie, but if the outcome is a player of Hemsky's magnitude, then I'm all in! That's basically trading an All-Star for another All-Star. Also on the plus side as well, Murphy is gonna come cheaper than McBain will because he (Mcbain) is an RFA and looking for more dollars. Therefor saving more money for that contract extension for Hemmer! We need that playmaker up front for Staal, so if it has to come at the expense of losing McBain, then I say go for it! With all the O-Dmen we currently have, it will bye the team a bit more time to develop Murphy into the All-Star that McBain was! He will be rock solid! Just believe!

I'm all for the bold and risky move right now, and I really like Hemsky, but the guy hasn't played even a near full season since the Nixon Administration and he's only signed for one year. Plus there's the salary imbalance issue. I suppose we could just trade TKabs to someone else for a second round pick or something. I guess we'll learn to forget about McBain as he puts up points year after year somewhere else, the way we've pretty much forgotten about Jack Johnson, and maybe we find a way to sign the Hemsker, and yes Murphy and Faulk will ease the pain.

But I guess my thought is that McBain is actually worth more than 3/4 (at best) of a year of Hemsky, and that we can get even more for McBain later. Now a sign and trade for 2-3 years of Hemsky....where do we sign?

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I'm all for the bold and risky move right now, and I really like Hemsky, but the guy hasn't played even a near full season since the Nixon Administration and he's only signed for one year. Plus there's the salary imbalance issue. I suppose we could just trade TKabs to someone else for a second round pick or something. I guess we'll learn to forget about McBain as he puts up points year after year somewhere else, the way we've pretty much forgotten about Jack Johnson, and maybe we find a way to sign the Hemsker, and yes Murphy and Faulk will ease the pain.

But I guess my thought is that McBain is actually worth more than 3/4 (at best) of a year of Hemsky, and that we can get even more for McBain later. Now a sign and trade for 2-3 years of Hemsky....where do we sign?

Maybe, just maybe PK is willing to open those purse strings a bit to get this team playoff bound?! One can hope, right? One thing I've noticed about the western conference is that the players tend to be bigger for durability and travel purposes whereas the eastern conference is made up of quite a bit more smallish players with tons of skill. Hemsky is all of the above... a semi-big guy with tons of skill. I'm thinking that will work better in the more offensive eastern conference. If we get lucky, then maybe the health of Hemmer will not be a great issue! Again... one can hope! But it's my opinion that 3/4 of a year of Hemsky is alot better than watching this team sink faster than the Titanic! Sorry for the long drawn out post!

Edited by shauniac79

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Maybe, just maybe PK is willing to open those purse strings a bit to get this team playoff bound?! One can hope, right?

Yes, one can hope. And I think making the playoffs is that important this year. With the new investors, maybe it is possible, although I wouldn't expect anything too extreme.

Two quotes from JR make me believe whatever deal is found will 1) be fair value both ways and 2) won't include Allen.

I recall the quote about Allen, and I agree JR isn't likely to want to trade him. But to trade "an apple for an apple" contract wise, and get a legitimate winger for Staal, that only leaves:

Pitkanen (4.5 for 3 years)

Kaberle (4.0, 4.25, 4.5)

Allen (3.15)

Gleason (3.5)

JR probably feels that signing Pitkanen was a bit of a coup in the off-season, and he has done everything right so far this season. I don't see him being moved, although I guess it is possible.

While I am sure JR would be happy to move Kaberle, he is apparently having difficulty doing so.

That leaves Allen and Gleason. And JR has also praised Gleason's leadership in the past, and the organization thinks enough of him to give him the "A". Although at this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gleason moved, for the right deal. I don't see him re-signing if they miss the play-offs, so if they don't see making the play-offs without a trade that involves him, then it doesn't really make sense to keep him.

If it is not one of those four being traded, then JR is taking on more salary, and in most cases (perhaps excluding Harrison) trading away some of the future. While there are good looking prospects in the pipe-line, there is always more risk counting on a prospect than a player with a known NHL track record.

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As usual you make perfect sense but the only way I can see JR moving Allen is if 1) he can't find anyone wiling to take on Kaberle's contract or 2) he gets back a veteran leadership type player to fill the void. Allen will be tough to replace because tough stay at home dmen that block tons of shots and aren't afraid to mix things up physically are hard to find and quite frankly, the Canes could use more of... not less.

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The playoffs are rapidly becoming unattainable. In which case you question trading for Hemsky. If the guy isn't staying, then he's not worth McBain.

Really, if the season is in the crapper, and I'd say it's very close to being there, then I'd hang onto McBain and trade Kabs for a pick... even 4th or 5th round. JR should have been more aggressive in the offseason, but that's hindsight now.

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How about this:

(Gagner/Jones/Eager) from EDM in exchange for (Mcbain/Larose/Poni)

Skinner-Jokinen-Ruutu

(Boychuk/Bowman)-Staal-Sutter

(Jones/Tlusty)-Gagner-(Dwyer/Dalpe)

Eager-Brent-Stewart

Pitkanen-Gleason

Allen-Faulk

Harrison-Kaberle

Ward

Boucher

I still really like this lineup. That third line could flat out fly and the fourth line could really hit. I think Staal's line would work well with the speedy Sutter on his wing like Cole. Salary is fairly even and Mcbain is a good player however we are stacked on defense and could use the help up front. Edited by RonnieFranchise

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Eager is a punk, no thanks. There's a reason he's on his 3rd or 4th team in 2 years.

I am still getting caught up from 2 weeks in Europe. Watched the games via Sling...well, most of them. I gave up on a couple. Dish issues prevented me recording the Montreal game, thankfully.

Here is my summary of Remkin-length take on things to this point.

* Local media, plus Puck Daddy, have all seen that Mo Must Go. DeCock in particular has been 100% correct on this, as he was last spring when he called Mo out after the playoff fail.

* This team is listless, no fight, no heart, no grit. Skinner is constantly being run and he is the only one pushing back.

* The young players are clueless and plentiful, the veteran players/leadership are missing or playing elsewhere.

* Mo is clueless, but in his defense, he doesn't have a lot to work with.

* JR royally screwed up this summer. Letting Cole go and not replacing him. Letting Corvo go for nothing, then signing Kabs. Signing Stewart/Poni to take spots from the kids, once again, as he does every summer - just can't stay out of that bargain bin, while our kids are left to wonder how the hell they are going to ever get in the lineup without injuries. JR is good at deadline deals with UFAs for draft picks, but as far as picking up talent he hasn't made a really good deal since TB gifted us Jussi. He relies too heavily on his "pimp hand" (per Puck Daddy) to sign guys to home town discounts once they get here. Players are starting to figure out that isn't enough.

* The defense actually played decent for about 10 games or so, then Joni returned to Joniland, McBain started coughing up the puck left and right, Gleason faded, Kabs has been terrible from the start, and Harrison and Allen are left wondering what the hell happened to these clowns.

* We never replaced Whitney, let alone Cole. No playmakers for Staal, who is in way over his head as Captain.

* Karmanos is happy spending to the floor and hoping we squeeze into the playoffs. Apparently, he didn't notice every other team below us last year actually went out and improved themselves. He also seems to have fooled himself into thinking Mo is a decent NHL coach. Twice.

In short, limited talent, limited funding, poor management, clueless coach, no leadership. Sounds like...the Whalers, circa mid-90's.

Sound about right?

On the trading block...Kabs, obviously, though who would want him and give us a decent return? McBain maybe, but who would suck up to Joni then? Probably poor Harrison. Up front I'd move almost any of our prospects except maybe Dalpe. One obvious move would be to trade LaRose. He's actually been decent and other teams would love to have a guy like that. It would be a massive blow to the locker room, but maybe that's what they need.

While I agree we need more power and playmaking up front, we still need help on defense. I don't think Faulk is the answer next to Joni, nor is Joslin. Maybe if Harrison could play there Joslin-Faulk would be an OK 3rd pairing, but that is an awful lot of inexperience, leading to much TOI for the top 4. We need a new Wallin/Wesley/Hedican type. Giving up on Seids and bringing in Ward was a massive failure and really screwed up the defense, to this day it has not recovered.

I think JR will make a move this week, but I doubt it will be enough.

Edited by JLP

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Eager is a punk, no thanks. There's a reason he's on his 3rd or 4th team in 2 years.

So you wouldn't want a Stanly Cup Champion willing to stand up for his teammates. I guarantee you Skinner, Staal, and Sutter would have more room to maneuver if this guy was in our lineup. Maybe you just don't want to lose the bonehead Poni who almost lost us the game tonight.

I am still getting caught up from 2 weeks in Europe. Watched the games via Sling...well, most of them. I gave up on a couple. Dish issues prevented me recording the Montreal game, thankfully.

*** EDIT ***

Here is my summary of Remkin-length take on things to this point.

* Local media, plus Puck Daddy, have all seen that Mo Must Go. DeCock in particular has been 100% correct on this, as he was last spring when he called Mo out after the playoff fail.

* This team is listless, no fight, no heart, no grit. Skinner is constantly being run and he is the only one pushing back.

* The young players are clueless and plentiful, the veteran players/leadership are missing or playing elsewhere.

* Mo is clueless, but in his defense, he doesn't have a lot to work with.

* JR royally screwed up this summer. Letting Cole go and not replacing him. Letting Corvo go for nothing, then signing Kabs. Signing Stewart/Poni to take spots from the kids, once again, as he does every summer - just can't stay out of that bargain bin, while our kids are left to wonder how the hell they are going to ever get in the lineup without injuries. JR is good at deadline deals with UFAs for draft picks, but as far as picking up talent he hasn't made a really good deal since TB gifted us Jussi. He relies too heavily on his "pimp hand" (per Puck Daddy) to sign guys to home town discounts once they get here. Players are starting to figure out that isn't enough.

* The defense actually played decent for about 10 games or so, then Joni returned to Joniland, McBain started coughing up the puck left and right, Gleason faded, Kabs has been terrible from the start, and Harrison and Allen are left wondering what the hell happened to these clowns.

* We never replaced Whitney, let alone Cole. No playmakers for Staal, who is in way over his head as Captain.

* Karmanos is happy spending to the floor and hoping we squeeze into the playoffs. Apparently, he didn't notice every other team below us last year actually went out and improved themselves. He also seems to have fooled himself into thinking Mo is a decent NHL coach. Twice.

In short, limited talent, limited funding, poor management, clueless coach, no leadership. Sounds like...the Whalers, circa mid-90's.

Sound about right?

On the trading block...Kabs, obviously, though who would want him and give us a decent return? McBain maybe, but who would suck up to Joni then? Probably poor Harrison. Up front I'd move almost any of our prospects except maybe Dalpe. One obvious move would be to trade LaRose. He's actually been decent and other teams would love to have a guy like that. It would be a massive blow to the locker room, but maybe that's what they need.

While I agree we need more power and playmaking up front, we still need help on defense. I don't think Faulk is the answer next to Joni, nor is Joslin. Maybe if Harrison could play there Joslin-Faulk would be an OK 3rd pairing, but that is an awful lot of inexperience, leading to much TOI for the top 4. We need a new Wallin/Wesley/Hedican type. Giving up on Seids and bringing in Ward was a massive failure and really screwed up the defense, to this day it has not recovered.

I think JR will make a move this week, but I doubt it will be enough.

Edited by OBXer
personal attack

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While I agree we need more power and playmaking up front, we still need help on defense. I don't think Faulk is the answer next to Joni, nor is Joslin. Maybe if Harrison could play there Joslin-Faulk would be an OK 3rd pairing, but that is an awful lot of inexperience, leading to much TOI for the top 4. We need a new Wallin/Wesley/Hedican type. Giving up on Seids and bringing in Ward was a massive failure and really screwed up the defense, to this day it has not recovered.

I think JR will make a move this week, but I doubt it will be enough.

Welcome back JLP. It appears you have caught up on the state of the Canes.

I think Faulk will help our defense overall or at least give us room to make a move. Isn't it odd the question becomes not how is Joni playing but who can pair with Joni. Adds a new dimension to the equation when your looking at trades. If your right about the move I guess we will find out this week.

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Just want a throw a random question out there. Both Allen and Gleason have one year left on their contracts; if you could only resign one in the offseason, which would you choose?

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Just want a throw a random question out there. Both Allen and Gleason have one year left on their contracts; if you could only resign one in the offseason, which would you choose?

Gleason

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Just want a throw a random question out there. Both Allen and Gleason have one year left on their contracts; if you could only resign one in the offseason, which would you choose?

That is a tough call. Allen has really been good and adds a veteran presence. Gleason is still tough and when he has his edge is guy you want on your side. Paired together they look solid. Allen is about 3 years older then Gleason and we are still rebuilding. I hope we don't have to make a choice but if we do I would pick Gleason by an eyelash.

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Allen has almost twice the amount of blocked shots as Gleason has, and he has a better +/-...

Under a new coach I want Gleason. We all know what he's capable of and we've had JR specifically tell us Mo has told him to town his game down to stay out of the box. (Last year's end of season interview for those who will inevitably ask) and I'd rather have the ruthless checker whose in the box once in a while then this version of Gleason.

Allen is also great like previous people have said it's a tough question and my answer is keep both and make moves elsewhere. However since your question doesn't allow for that I am forced to say Gleason on reputation.

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This might be a dumb question, but as a novice fan I really don't understand. Other than having to deal with injured players, why does Mo change the lines so much? Granted with the way this season has been going, you have to try ANYTHING and see if it works. But, I would think that you would leave some lines alone to build chemistry and let them gel.

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Sorry dont have the link right now but the latest rumor from Spectors is Bryan Allen for Antoine Vermette (via Columbus)

IDK how that really helps us getting rid of one the few guys that can play defense for what i consider a mediocre winger

. Hope a rumor is all it turns out to be

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