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Coach Mo gone, confirmed by Mike Maniscalco and Chip Alexander| Coaching and how to fix it discussion

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Well...... if .500 got you fired, Maurice would have been gone a long time ago, there's way more to this story than we'll ever know. This franchise needs an outside voice.

Canesfan248, I agree that those two things are definite issues but hasn't the defense and PP been addressed by several different coaches over the years?

TSA since we have only had MO and Lavi as the two coaches of this franchise since coming to NC I would say we don't really have a good base of diversity to judge against. That being said, Lavi was and is a completely different coach and one who has achieved much more success that MO -- Stanley Cup at Carolina and recent final and playoff success in Philly.

The thing about Lavi was his lack of "dump and chase" style that I personally believe offers often hinders our ability to use speed and skill to our advantage. However given the mediocre defensive talent that we currently have on the ice, I am not sure that they could play an up-temp style.

I also believe that the 08 season was a combination or post cup let down, but more importantly star player let down. That to me was one of the often seen Cane years in which you never knew who was going to show up on ice from game to game. Staal set the tempo often by seeing if he could be the first guy off ice at the end of his shifts as well as unwilling to "mix it up" on defense or offense.

Finally I have often heard and believe that for some reason there was bad blood between Lavi and Rutherford and/or Karmanos. Lavi was one to give preferential treatment to our "stars" and I think upper management had a different vision. Just my take on it and I could be totally wrong.

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TSA since we have only had MO and Lavi as the two coaches of this franchise since coming to NC I would say we don't really have a good base of diversity to judge against. That being said, Lavi was and is a completely different coach and one who has achieved much more success that MO -- Stanley Cup at Carolina and recent final and playoff success in Philly.

The thing about Lavi was his lack of "dump and chase" style that I personally believe offers often hinders our ability to use speed and skill to our advantage. However given the mediocre defensive talent that we currently have on the ice, I am not sure that they could play an up-temp style.

I also believe that the 08 season was a combination or post cup let down, but more importantly star player let down. That to me was one of the often seen Cane years in which you never knew who was going to show up on ice from game to game. Staal set the tempo often by seeing if he could be the first guy off ice at the end of his shifts as well as unwilling to "mix it up" on defense or offense.

Finally I have often heard and believe that for some reason there was bad blood between Lavi and Rutherford and/or Karmanos. Lavi was one to give preferential treatment to our "stars" and I think upper management had a different vision. Just my take on it and I could be totally wrong.

Are you sure Lavi gave preferential treatment to the star players or could it have been the other way around? You make good points but didn't coaches like McCarthy, Rowe, Francis and Daniels all have their hand in coaching the PP and the defense too? I'm not sure I'd compare Lavi's time in Carolina to his time in Philly. Philly is a completely different market with an owner who allows the GM to spend to the max every season. They go after top tier free agents (Pronger, Briere) to fill holes in the line up and allow the coach to call all his own shots as long as he's producing results. The Canes are not set up like this nor can they compete with this. The good news is that every so often, small market teams like the Canes catch lightning in a bottle and somehow, along with some good old fashioned luck, win championships despite the odds.

I think Lavi used the dump and chase less because 1) he had a speedy team who was known for fast transitions 2) he coached right after the lock out when the clutch and grab style of play was eliminated from the game (temporarily) and 3) he had a good defense by committee that could also transition fast and wasn't afraid to block shots. Remember the season before he got fired? He used the dump and chase a ton because the rules were reverting back and our speedy guys were turning over the puck in the neutral zone and giving the other team odd man breaks one right after another.

BTW, this has actually turned into a good discussion with lots of valid and different opinions. :)

Edited by TSA

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How many more assistant's do we gotta go through and see the same PP and same PK before we start looking at the Head Coach. Head coach dictates style of special teams he wants run and tells the Assistant to make it happen. Assistant coaches don't make up the plays they do the yelling and instruction. If it doesn't work at the top no amount of instruction or yelling will fix it. Perimeter puck movement starting at the blue line with almost no down low behind the net movement hasn't worked in years. Even with some of the biggest names in Offensive D-men it's not working.

We've been through to many assitant coaches in 3 years for me to continue to blame our assistants. McCarthy bailed awfully quick for a guy who was around from the beginning. He wasn't going to deal with Mo again.

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I like Mo's sense of humor, during the good times. When things aren't going well (which is over half the time), he gives the same old lame excuses over and over. Yes, I know it's "coach speak", but I'd much rather have a little honesty. It isn't unheard of in sports for a coach to say that he did something wrong or that he wished he had tried something a little different. Add that in with his maddening (to me at least) habit of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Mo is a lifetime under .500 coach when you talk about actual wins and losses. There is obviously something that PK and JR see in him that I do not. The Hurricanes are never going to be a top payroll team. The only way for a middle to bottom of the pack payroll team to be successful is for young players on entry level deals becoming contributing players on the team. Paul Maurice seems very hesitant to place those players in those positions. My opinion is that Mo is not the right coach under these circumstances.

The Canes had a better record for the season (.520) when Lavi was fired than Mo's first stint with the Canes (.482). Mo's record since returning is .545, but that includes his first partial year back with Lavi's team. Since then, Mo's record is .520, which is exactly what Lavi's was for the season when he had the rug pulled out from under him. In my opinion, Lavi was fired for not showing up for the season ending meetings. My speculation is that he was forced to put the players coming back from injury back into the lineup and he was a bit miffed.

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Look at Ottawa and Edmonton. They are playing all of their prospects and are actually doing well as well as getting their players experience which will help them in the future. This offseason everyone including Mo was saying how Dalpe was going to be a top 6 forward and yet he is on the 4th line. People are saying that they haven't been impressed with his play so far. WEll maybe thats because he hasn't played with good players and not more than 5 minutes a night! He could easily score 20-25 goals if put on line with staal or a line with skinner which I think would be amazing. Same thing with Boychuk. JR continues to say that we are now a playoff team and are done rebuilding, but we have only gotten worse since last year. Acquiring 3rd and 4th line players in the offseason doesn't change your status in the league. We need to make a big trade because we have too many defenseman and we need more room offensively as well. Whether you agree with me or not, I am right and we will not be a playoff team until we start developing prospects and using good lines. Brandon Sutter is so good and we play him 12 minutes a night...Eric staal is nothing people! We pay him 9 million a year to get 60-70 points at best. He should be worth 6 million at best and I have never liked him that much. Yes, with new linemates for him he could be better, but obviously that isn't happening any time soon. If we kept the money spent on Kaberle (3-4mil) and poni (1 million) and larose (1.5million) we would have about 6 million in cap space. That money could easily of gotten us a 1st line superstar but instead, we elect to use it to buy lower line players and an overrated dman....If only we still had Vrbata, Ladd, and Williams...

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Look at Ottawa and Edmonton. They are playing all of their prospects and are actually doing well as well as getting their players experience which will help them in the future. This offseason everyone including Mo was saying how Dalpe was going to be a top 6 forward and yet he is on the 4th line. People are saying that they haven't been impressed with his play so far. WEll maybe thats because he hasn't played with good players and not more than 5 minutes a night! He could easily score 20-25 goals if put on line with staal or a line with skinner which I think would be amazing. Same thing with Boychuk. JR continues to say that we are now a playoff team and are done rebuilding, but we have only gotten worse since last year. Acquiring 3rd and 4th line players in the offseason doesn't change your status in the league. We need to make a big trade because we have too many defenseman and we need more room offensively as well. Whether you agree with me or not, I am right and we will not be a playoff team until we start developing prospects and using good lines. Brandon Sutter is so good and we play him 12 minutes a night...Eric staal is nothing people! We pay him 9 million a year to get 60-70 points at best. He should be worth 6 million at best and I have never liked him that much. Yes, with new linemates for him he could be better, but obviously that isn't happening any time soon. If we kept the money spent on Kaberle (3-4mil) and poni (1 million) and larose (1.5million) we would have about 6 million in cap space. That money could easily of gotten us a 1st line superstar but instead, we elect to use it to buy lower line players and an overrated dman....If only we still had Vrbata, Ladd, and Williams...

well said. so much emphasis on saving money and yet so much money being illogically blown and wasted

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perhaps the "Kids and Community" Foundation by having a silent auction where people can bid to be coach for a game. Higest bids would be expected for the head coach position, Have bids for PP, PK, ...

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We've been through to many assitant coaches in 3 years for me to continue to blame our assistants. McCarthy bailed awfully quick for a guy who was around from the beginning. He wasn't going to deal with Mo again.

I agree Legend, though with McCarthy, his being around since the beginning went back before Mo to Holmgren, both as players and coaches. Plus he had been marginalized here by being put upstairs. But he certainly knew a good opportunity when he saw it.

Edited by JLP

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I like Mo's sense of humor, during the good times. When things aren't going well (which is over half the time), he gives the same old lame excuses over and over. Yes, I know it's "coach speak", but I'd much rather have a little honesty. It isn't unheard of in sports for a coach to say that he did something wrong or that he wished he had tried something a little different.

...

In my opinion, Lavi was fired for not showing up for the season ending meetings. My speculation is that he was forced to put the players coming back from injury back into the lineup and he was a bit miffed.

Wow, two things you hit on.

First, if you ever listen to David Cutcliff, he constantly takes blame. (I'm not a Duke fan, but the guy is really interesting to listen to.) However, it has gotten old. He says "that was my fault" so many times, it is laughable. Be careful what you ask for.

Second, I still am baffled to this day on the decision of putting out all those hobbled players. I don't know who made the decision, but clearly it was part of the Lavi mess.

And it isn't a theory about the exit interviews. JR made it very clear he was royally P.O.d at Lavi for that. And about playing certain players? Didn't PK call Lavi out about Bellanger's playing time? That whole post-Lavi interview with JR and PK was an awesome window into their thoughts. I got a real sense they didn't like Lavi's independence of thought. And that's a concern. I don't sit in an office in Edwards Mill, so I'll never know, but it sure sounds like some micro-managing went on. A new coach should be aware.

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Never should have been given a 3 year contract after the playoff run in '09. 2 should have been the max. Had a bad feeling about it and unfortunately my suspicions were right and it started at the beginning of the 09-10 season when the 14 game losing streak took place. If it was 2 and JR decided to put friendships aside, we could have started over with a clean slate after the disappointing end to last season. Instead, we're on the same track as we were last season.

To end this, it is time to part ways with Maurice. And this time it needs to be for good. I will lose my mind if we miss the playoffs this season and he is given a contract extension. And quite frankly if that happens I will think JR has as well.

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I see this organization as being a very "tight" group--putting a great premium on "loyalty". Lavi had a mind of

his own and bucked being a "yes"man. Mo came back, initially, as a favor to JR, in the middle of the '09

season, to replace Lavi.

I wonder how any "outside" coach would do if he had any kind of independent streak in him ? We

don't know 'cause Lavi is the only outsider we have seen.( Lewis is an outsider--but he's not the head coach)

Just thinking out loud !!

Edited by UNCCaniac8

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While I am pleased that we won last night I also have mixed feelings about it. Every game we win means MO stays another 20 games. I think we should suffer the pain now and get rid of him rather then streach it out like we did last year.

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There is a general team mindset that the coach/leadership need to address that is not being done. I am not in the locker room and meeting so I do not know for certain, but I am not sure people are being held accountable for their actions. It might be time to break out the dreaded "healthy" scratch so the under-performers/error prone players are reminded of what is expected, give them a game to clear their minds, and let any of the "nagging" injuries (brain cramps) heal.

This is a continual issue that needs to be addressed and corrected. Last season if I recall, it was addressed with Rutherford coming into the locker room between periods of one game to share his view on what was expected and right the ship. When the coach is unable to convey that message coaching style or coach needs to change.

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This is a continual issue that needs to be addressed and corrected. Last season if I recall, it was addressed with Rutherford coming into the locker room between periods of one game to share his view on what was expected and right the ship. When the coach is unable to convey that message coaching style or coach needs to change.

Why stop at JR? Go to the top, PK. He's in town (or was).

I'd say that he could even put JR on notice, but with the new contract and the fact that JR once again owns part of the team, that won't happen. JR is here to stay until he's ready to pass the reigns.

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How many times are we willing to hear the same old same old??? After every game, regardless if its the "Aftermath" on radio or the next day in the N&O we keep getting fed the same broken record -- "we played a great 20 or 40 mintues of hockey"; our defensive positioning was poor; we need to keep up the energy level; we need to go to the "dark areas"; we need to support Staal with different wings to get him more involved; and you all know the rest of the BS they feed us. So my question is:

WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH?? HOW MUCH LONGER ARE YOU WILLING TO ATTEND GAMES AND SUPPORT OWNERSHIP AND A COACH THAT JUST SIMPLY WANT YOUR MONEY WITHOU PUTTING A VIABLE PRODCUT ON THE ICE??

For those of you who continue to look at everything through the rose colored glasses keep enjoying being suckered. For those of us who have been with this team for 14 years many of us are more than frustrated. You are going to lose more fans and that maybe ok with you Messrs. Rutherford and Karmanos. So if that happens you simply pull another "Hartford". But there are many fans who hold you accountable for the poor performance and the blind loyalty that you demonstrate at the expense of your team and fans.

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I know it frustrates the heck out of those convinced Mo is completely inept, but there have been suggestions that Staal and Ruutu might be fighting injuries. Then Jokinen goes down...I agree that LaRose on the first line seems nuts, but where are the horses?

The only way to know what Mo can really do, is to give him at least a slightly above average talent pool. Does anyone think we have that?

Mo has a permanent excuse, which while people hate excuses, is real.

I've seen bone-headed moves (LaRose on the first line, not giving the yutes a true shot), and I've seen below average teams play their butts of for an entire season and just miss the playoffs and a very average team go all the way to the Eastern Conference Finals.

The guy has been coaching since he was about 5 years old, you'd think he'd picked up a thing or two.

Anyway, get him a decent team and see once and for all and see if he's as bad as some think. One key move and a little healing and we could be there. This is just one more reason for that move. See what Mo can do with a decent team. If he gets some talent and still can't make it go, then the next move is easy, even for PK/JR.

Edited by remkin

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Well put. I point the finger at ownership. I mean for cripe sakes Cole was a 1st liner for us and a 3rd liner for the habs. That year we won the cup. We made some legit moves to improve the team at the midway mark and the trade deadline. I think JR and PK saw that we had a legit chance to land a top seed in the playoffs and capitalized on the situation. Is this what it is going to take fork out money? Put out a winning product with mediocre talent and then fork out the cash through acquisitions to ensure a deep run.

That year we had forward lines which were:

Cole-Staal-Stillman

Whitney-brindy-Williams

Cullen-Weight-Reechi

Ladd-Adams-Adams

My question to ownership is. If you can put a product on the ice with the talent that we saw in 06. Why can't you fork out some cash for a 1st line forward to help Staal? It's frustrating. And yes, people can argue that Staal did not have a big contract back then allowing for more room. But those first 3 lines were just downright crazy.

Edited by bluedevil58

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That year we had forward lines which were:

Cole-Staal-Stillman

Whitney-brindy-Williams

Cullen-Weight-Reechi

Ladd-Adams-Adams

My question to ownership is. If you can put a product on the ice with the talent that we saw in 06. Why can't you fork out some cash for a 1st line forward to help Staal? It's frustrating. And yes, people can argue that Staal did not have a big contract back then allowing for more room. But those first 3 lines were just downright crazy.

Oh yes! I've been saying it for years, that cup team was loaded with talent. Show me the weak link up front. That was not a fluke.

Slide the pucks out and roll the lines with that talent.

I suspect Mo could have coached that team.

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Jimmy Rutherford for the love of God please realize .500 hockey WILL NOT get us into the playoffs!!! This franchise NEEDS the playoffs to be successful for its fans, and Paul Maurice is NOT working.

I respect JR so much but it's mind-boggling how he sits and watch the team night in, night out, and makes no changes. The pattern is the same from last season and the year before as it is now, and it didn't work then and it isn't going to work now. Recognize the pattern JR and make a change. Or just wait for a "good" win sometime soon and all the fans will be pacified enough until the next game.

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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look what getting the right coaches have done for the Bolts and the Kitty-Kats. is there another GM in the NHL that tolerates continued mediocracy?

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The people being hurt the worst by bad coaching are the checkers players trying to come up. This team has no game plan on offense. If they're lucky enough to get out the neutral zone, they play hot-potato, give it to the point and hope for a deflection. They never get the puck out the neutral zone smoothly, besides staal/skinner/jokinen, no one ever centers the puck on offense. How's a prospect suppose to get a fair shot?

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look what getting the right coaches have done for the Bolts and the Kitty-Kats. is there another GM in the NHL that tolerates continued mediocracy?

This team should have fired Maurice after last season and hired Dineen. I did suggest this at the end of last season.

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At the end of last year I came down lightly, but down, on the side of not bringing Mo back this year.

I do not think he has competitive talent on his team to coach. I realize with Jussi out it is even worse.

But something has to give. There have simply been too many bad games.

Last year at the end of the year, we had one game to win to make the playoffs. The team came out flat and mostly stayed there.

Tonight, after a bad game vs. Washington, we needed to come out and compete. We didn't have to win, just compete. Ended up feeling a lot like that Tampa game at the end of last year.

Whatever Mo did to try to motivate these guys tonight had the opposite effect.

I feel somewhat bad to come down on Mo right now since our top 6 right now includes 3 3rd liners, a subpar Ruutu and a feckless Staal, but this team is about to play NJ, NYR, Pit, and Philly. We need something to change.

If we come out flat vs NJ.....

I still prefer a big trade first, but there isn't much more on my Mo leash if I'm JR.

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St. Louis just Fired Davis Payne and Hired Ken Hitchcock as their new head coach through 2012-2013.

ST. LOUIS (AP)—The St. Louis Blues have changed coaches after a disappointing 6-7 start, firing Davis Payne and hiring Ken Hitchcock to a contract through next season.

The 40-year-old Payne was the second-youngest coach in the NHL but got only one full season with St. Louis after being hired in January 2010.

The 59-year-old Hitchcock is 534-350-88-70, winning a Stanley Cup with Dallas in 1999-2000 and also coaching at Philadelphia and Columbus.

The team called a news conference for Monday morning and Hitchcock will be on the bench for practice that afternoon.

Take Note Mo........there is another head coach ahead of you looking for a job

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