National Anthem

[Caniacgirl65]

Super Dave - LOL you definitely have the solution!

[hockeysmitten]

I don't usually post, just come here to read latest news and tidbits going on. I probably would not have posted anything today, either, except I am really moved and a little appalled by the responses to the 'probable college kids' having fun at a hockey game. It appears to me that most of the responses are coming from old people. I am old also, but I have not forgotten that I was once young! I don't yell things myself during the NA , but I see no reason to get all bent out of shape about it. It's suppose to be a free country. If you want to sing along, you can do that. If you just want to listen quietly, you can do that. If you want to yell RED, where the word red is sung, you should be able to do that, too. What you seem to be forgetting here, is that if you all complain and have the Canes management prohibit any NA interaction from the crowd, you will be interfering with their rights of free speech - which is a much more serious and damaging action then them yelling RED where the song says red.

Probably best to do your owen thing, and let others do theirs and just appreciate eachothers approach to life as best as you can. We are all CANIACS, and we all pay for our tickets.

[PamlicoPuck]

and Im sure if after the game someone painted something on your car, or your son or daughter was insulted,

you would react the same? Im sure you would say never mind the paint it was their free speech to paint those things

or say those things? Hmmm probably not. A divide house will never stand!

[hockeysmitten]

Painting someones car, or harming someone physically is going alot further than freedom of speech, but I think you already know that. It is not my intent to make people angry. I also do not appreciate the random yells during the singing of our NA, which I think is one of the most beautiful songs ever written. Not just because it represents our nation, but also for it's historical and poetic value. That being said, there is a distinct difference between someone being rude and shouting out at an inappropriate time (during our NA), and having people lose their rights of verbal expression. The first being in the category of bad taste on their part, while the second is the denial of a constitutional right. That goes against everything that this country stands for. Yes, the same country you love so much. If we allow that we open Pandora's box. Before you know it you will be dragged into court because somebody doesn't like something you said. Don't laugh, they do it in Canada. That's the beginning of the end of true freedom. I can live with someone having no class. I cannot live with someone trampling on the constitution of the US of America. That would be tragic.

[JLP]

Ah, the slippery slope. Not the greatest argument, especially considering "shouting out at an inappropriate time" is one of the classical examples of non-protected speech. You are also ignoring the difference between public and private property. That said, I don't think anyone wants to have that discussion/argument, as it is well beyond the scope of a hockey board.

[hockeysmitten]

Sorry, should have realized it was an innocent/friendly tete-a-tete among friends and not over reacted. Did not mean to intrude. It just made my hair follicles twitch a bit. Meant no harm or disrespect. Actually only came to sniff out news of the team, not to interfere. Peace to all.

[super_dave_1]

The way that Freedom of Speech is "claimed" always gets me riled up. Nobody said anything about somebody being arrested for shouting out anything. My "Freedom of Speech" allows me to say that I don't think that yelling something out during the National Anthem is appropriate, without the fear of repercussions from the government.

A short while ago, Hank Williams Jr. said something that got him in hot water with ESPN and they stopped using his intro to MNF. He said he was just exercising his right to Freedom of Speech. Nobody came to arrest him, so his rights weren't violated. He did not have freedom from repercussions from an employer though and ESPN had the right to terminate his services (even though what he said may or may not have been taken out of context).

Although I don't yell "red", it has become a tradition. The rest of the made up stuff is junk and should stop. I don't think we would be having this discussion if it were just the word "red".

superdave gets down off his soapbox

[OldScholHockey]

The alleged caniacs are a disgrace to the NHL and the Flag. Show some honor and class. This is a joke to all visiting fans. Cheer the team; do not butcher the Anthem. I understand it is a small % of the crowd and understand yelling "red" but otherwise pathetic. Next time the person around you does it make it known they are an embarassment.

[golfpro827]

This is a joke to all visiting fans.

For the record, the visiting fans that you claim we are a joke to shouted "O" for Ovechkin Friday and "Stars" for Dallas today.

It's not Canes fans. It's people.

[hopper915]

For the record, the visiting fans that you claim we are a joke to shouted "O" for Ovechkin Friday and "Stars" for Dallas today.

It's not Canes fans. It's people.

Dallas fans has been doing that for a long time. Personally, I don't have a problem with "Stars" or "Red" because they are actual words in the Anthem. I'm sure everyone thought it was cute in the beginning, but now, all these "Jussi", "Gleasons", and "Skinners" is an embarrassment to the organization and the Caniacs IMO.

Edited November 7, 2011 by hopper915

[laglebergson]

This is the one problem I see if something is done to stop the yelling (like Gleason doing a PSA)...the more you restrict something or tell people no, you can't do that, the more people will want to. When growing up my parents would tell me you can't hang out with so-n-so, or you can't do that. It made me want to do it more. Doesn't make a difference if you are a kid, teen or adult. The more you tell people no, the more you'll have people rebel. Maybe there isn't a solution to it. Maybe it just needs to be left alone and hopefully it will die out like all fads!

[TSA]

This is the one problem I see if something is done to stop the yelling (like Gleason doing a PSA)...the more you restrict something or tell people no, you can't do that, the more people will want to. When growing up my parents would tell me you can't hang out with so-n-so, or you can't do that. It made me want to do it more. Doesn't make a difference if you are a kid, teen or adult. The more you tell people no, the more you'll have people rebel. Maybe there isn't a solution to it. Maybe it just needs to be left alone and hopefully it will die out like all fads!

Good point and welcome

I've noticed that when Katherine isn't the singer, it throws the "screamers" off a little and they get drowned out. Katherine has been fantastic and has been a tradition around here for years but maybe its time for a change. Perhaps a new talented kid (to stay with the tradition) or maybe tap into the local musical talent around the Triangle?

Maybe a change that mixes things up is what's needed to drown out the screamers. I don't think the Canes want to get involved with this because of all the debates about amendment rights discussed in this very thread. They are there to provide sports entertainment and not dictate how and when someone exercises his/her right to participate in the National Anthem. Can't blame them a bit for not wanting to get involved, though I'm sure many of the higher ups cringe every time they hear all the screaming.

[UNCCaniac8]

. What you seem to be forgetting here, is that if you all complain and have the Canes management prohibit any NA interaction from the crowd, you will be interfering with their rights of free speech - which is a much more serious and damaging action then them yelling RED where the song says red.

Welcome to the board, friend. Having never been a PC person, I will say what I think and I hope I do not offend.

If the organization did anything (and I doubt the will) they would be requesting peoples cooperation to offer two

minutes of respectful silence while the colors are presented (that is two minutws out of the 2 1/2 hours of shouting

and fun that their ticket buys them)

It is not and has never been about rights of " free speach." It is about respect, and protocol. The teams all give that

every game---and most are not Americans. It is about acting like adults. If it is about "free speach" rights--then

my kids were deprived of free speach rights the entire time they were growing up. " Cause I never allowed them

to be loud, and shout and act boorish---at church, or in school, or even in the supermarket. I taught them there

is a time to have fun, laugh and be loud and a time to be more quiet and respectful depending on their situational

surroundings. Now they show deference to the NA--and think it is their idea !!

.

But on a lighter note. One of the Canadian teams (Tor or Mtl) has a professional anthem singer. He is stocky, wears

a tux and has curly long dark hair. When he sings the Canadian anthem he starts out the first line then holds out

his mic to the audience and they continue the anthem---then he adds the last line or two with great flurish. That

approach would deflect a lot of unnecessary add ons !!! Just a thought ! Make the crowd participate !

Edited November 8, 2011 by UNCCaniac8

[super_dave_1]

It is not and has never been about rights of " free speach."

Absolutely right.

The shock troops aren't going to come in and arrest someone for yelling "Jussi". Freedom of speech is intended to protect individuals from reprisal from the government for speaking out (especially against the government). It isn't permission to act like a tool in public (although it isn't illegal to be a tool in public). Have a little respect.

UNCCaniac, I love the non-PC people, you know that

[coastal_caniac]

In my opinion, it will take nothing short of getting some media attention to get this addressed. The Canes will then be forced to do "something".

Edited November 7, 2011 by coastal_caniac

[MeleeRayRay]

Conversation with a former service member speaking here (USMC):

The song is a mere symbol, a string of notes. A million people can shout a million things for all I care and it would not bother me in the slightest. I did not join the military to defend a lyric, I joined the military to defend our way of life.

While distasteful to many, shouting during the song is a legal expression of free speech. That is part of the constitution I agreed to protect and defend when I joined. We do not get to pick and choose what rights we wish to defend and what rights we don’t. If you honor the right of free speech, then on principle alone, you must also honor someone shouting during a song for their own personal expression. You don’t have to agree with it, you can resent it to your heart’s content. But I do have to respect it enough to allow it to happen.

Personally, I am actually FAR more offended when the song is used as a cheap marketing tool for things like politics and selling cars. It makes me sick to see the song that represents in part the million lives the ‘great generation’ gave up to protect our way of life being used in such a crass and classless manner. To me, exploiting it that way is far more revolting than adding names to it.

[super_dave_1]

While distasteful to many, shouting during the song is a legal expression of free speech. That is part of the constitution I agreed to protect and defend when I joined. We do not get to pick and choose what rights we wish to defend and what rights we don’t. If you honor the right of free speech, then on principle alone, you must also honor someone shouting during a song for their own personal expression. You don’t have to agree with it, you can resent it to your heart’s content. But I do have to respect it enough to allow it to happen.

What is it about you "Freedom of Speech" guys that makes you always go to that argument? Did anybody say anything about having the "offenders" arrested or punished? Yes, it is legal for them to yell out. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it proper conduct. There would be nothing wrong with the organization having Tim Gleason do a PSA with Sutter and Staal standing at his side. You'd have the leadership of the team asking the fans to refrain from the yelling out of names during the anthem. Freedom of Speech would allow them to do that.

Freedom of Speech is not freedom from the consequences of your speech. The next time I call a big burly fellow a name he doesn't like, I'll just tell him I'm exercising my Freedom of Speech and see if that helps any. I don't think the Bill of Rights would help me much when I'm getting my skull bounced off the asphalt.

Edited November 8, 2011 by super_dave_1

[MeleeRayRay]

Yeah I knew they wouldn't arrest or punish the people doing it lol, and sure the members of the hurricanes could do that no problem. Just posting a perssonal anecdote about why one might not have a problem with the people shouting.

[UNCCaniac8]

UNCCaniac, I love the non-PC people, you know that

Yes, I do know that ! Glad you are back !

[hag65]

Why don't we just get rid of every person that gets shouted out during the anthem? Then there is no reason anymore to shout out their name.

Then, I can start my movement to get the national anthem changed to "The Joker" by Steve Miller.

(the preceding was a long-form joke that requires thought and/or research)

[TSA]

Why don't we just get rid of every person that gets shouted out during the anthem? Then there is no reason anymore to shout out their name.

Then, I can start my movement to get the national anthem changed to "The Joker" by Steve Miller.

(the preceding was a long-form joke that requires thought and/or research)

Haha,I thought you wrote:

Why don't we just get rid of every person that shouts out during the anthem?

I couldn't stop laughing.... can you imagine how bad attendance would be if we got rid of all of the screamers?

This is the most bipolar thread we've ever had on this forum dating back as far as I can remember.

[UNCCaniac8]

Pen's game: 11/12/11

Someone upstairs reads this board. Maybe it was just tonight, b/c of Veterans Day weekend,

But before the NA, the PA announcer said something like this: " Everyone is welcome to sing along

with the Anthen or are asked to stand in respectful silence while our own KK Fritch sings."

PS I think it took people by surprise but there was more singing and less add-ons tonight.

Edited November 13, 2011 by UNCCaniac8

[ncradford]

I was glad to hear the announcement before the National Anthem as well. Surprised to hear it but glad it was done. It did specifically address Veteran's Day but I hope they continue to make that same announcement before EVERY game.

It definitely did have an effect on the extra-curriculars during the song. There were far fewer people yelling and those that were were net nearly as loud as they have been in the past.

Kudos to the Canes Management for taking some action on this!

[ynotagain]

I was glad to hear the announcement before the National Anthem as well. Surprised to hear it but glad it was done. It did specifically address Veteran's Day but I hope they continue to make that same announcement before EVERY game.

It definitely did have an effect on the extra-curriculars during the song. There were far fewer people yelling and those that were were net nearly as loud as they have been in the past.

Kudos to the Canes Management for taking some action on this!

Yes ... The PA announcer worded his request very well, asking us all to show respect for the NA and sing along with KK. Well done Canes management and the large portion of the fans attending. Thank you.

[super_dave_1]

We were wandering around the lower concourse a little longer than normal and had not made it to our seats before the anthem. We were just getting to the top of the stairs at the 300 concourse when it started. I was wondering why I didn't hear all the extra stuff yelled.

Canes management, well done.