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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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To add an example to remkin, the year we got skinner, Nino N was expected to fall past at least 7th, but wound up going 4th to the islanders. Same draft, cam fowler was expected to go 4th but wound up going 13th to the ducks. The nhl draft is the most unpredictable of the 4 major sports. I say if JR can't get a guy who'll help very nearly immediately, he should trade for a forward.

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Same draft, cam fowler was expected to go 4th but wound up going 13th to the ducks.

I remember that draft year pretty well because I actually watched that one. All the mock drafters had Fowler going 5th at worst, some even had him going 3rd. It was predicted to be Hall, Seguin, then three dmen: Gudbranson, Fowler, Gormley according to just about every prognosticator. The first 3 went according to script, but then at #4 Columbus went for Ryan Johanson and the race to grab forwards was on. Gm's wanted forwards, and the Johanson pick started a run on them. Niederreiter, then Connolly, that's why it was that much more surprising with Fowler and Gormley both there at #7 that we went with Skinner. Bold move really.

Anyway, in a draft with a consensus big three Dmen, 8 of the first 9 picks were forwards. Fowler went 12, but Gormley actually went after him.

Last year 7 of the first 8 were forwards. 2009 6 of the first 8: forwards. 2008 7/11.

It makes sense really, but be it as it may the first 8-9 picks are usually slanted strongly to forwards. So, picking #8 is more likely to yield a top dman than a forward.

Probably the best prediction one could make is this. If the mock draft has us getting a forward rated near the top 5, chances are they'll be gone by #8. So we end up taking a shot at a guy with lots of upside but some weaknesses, or get dman. That's why Fowler and Gormley dropped, and probably why we got Murphy.

If we want a top forward we might want to look at trading up. If a team ahead of us wants a defenseman, they might do it.

Trading the pick entirely better bring back a top guy with years on a decent contract. Not likely, but worth considering if the right deal came along.

Anyway, JR rarely trades his first rounder up, down, or around. Just picks in place. At least since I've been watching. Of course that's what most teams do.

Edited by remkin

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I don't really see a need to trade up, and I don't think the Canes will even consider it. Nobody, other than arguably Yakapov, could be considered a player that has really separated himself from the pack of 2-8 or even 2-10 for that matter.

Realistically, is Edmonton going to trade away a chance at Nail? The costs in assets alone (our 8th pick + roster player + prospect(s))to move up to get an offensive player that likely won't be ready for a couple of years just doesn't make sense. Those assests would be better used in FA or trade to get a proven NHL'r to play with Staal (and an upgrade for Allen, hopefully).

We will get a good player at #8, whomever that is. Best to stay put, IMO.

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Although JR has surprised us recently (signing contracts during the season) and could surprise us again and trade up I agree with coastal that we should stay put. I don't see a need to trade up as we will probable get a decent prospect for the future. IMO (as we know I'm often wrong) I don't think we are building the now through the draft any longer. I think we will draft a center or forward with an eye toward a couple of years down the road. Of course we could go after a prospect we think another team wants that could be used in a later trade.

As for the now I think free agency or trade(s) is how we will fill our perceived needs.

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I agree we are unlikely to trade up, certainly not into the top 3.

However, after Nail three other forwards are consistently put into the top 6.

Galchenek, Grinorenko, and Filip Forsberg. After them it gets really choppy and all over the place on forwards.

Almost everyone puts Ryan Murray, a Dman, in the top 5.

So it might be safe to say that it could go:

Nail

Murray

Grigorkenko

Forsberg

Dumba

Then all the sudden we are one away from Galchenek, who had a knee injury, but is thought to be elite.

Or, if we could trade up to #5 we could almost surely get Forsberg, Grigorenko or Galenchenek.

But after those guys most mock drafters have a ton of dmen next, and the forwards are all over the place in terms of who'll be next.

Staying at #8 would seem to be best if we want a dman because there are going to be some VERY good ones there. Forwards? Well if JR sees a Skinner hiding under the names above, great.

If we dive into the somewhat mixed forwards below that, I hope we get a Skinner and not a Boychuk.

Now hear me now and believe me later, I am not predicting this move, actually doubt it quite a bit, but JR does have an extra second rounder. Would that be enough to move up to say #5 and grab a Galenchenek or Forsberg?

Edited by remkin

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I don't know Remkin, JR has made it pretty clear he's going after the FA market. He's not one to put up smoke screens so unless someone is offering the 1st or 2nd pick overall, I think they stay put at 8th too.

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Well I actually don't think he's moving up either. Just might make some sense given our needs.

Now on the FA thing. Other than Parise, who else would fit the bill? Seems like the market is likely going to favor the FA this year. Parise would be awsome. He is NJ's captain,and he does have some pretty good talent there. Just seems like a long shot.

Who else is out there? Might have to work a trade.

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When reading the Pens board earlier today, they seem to think that Jordan Staal may be available according to this guy.

According to his twitter page, the Pens want to keep JStaal but will need to make some big roster moves to be able to keep him. He also suggested that JStaal might be interested in getting a 1st or 2nd line center job where there may be openings. He's a little stuck behind Sid and Malkin ;)

.....enter JR and the Canes :thumbsup2:

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We need a right-handed winger to play with Staal, and on the PP.

Besides, JR has already penciled in Welsh to fill a center spot. :huh:

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I don't know if Jordan Staal was available via trade and we thought we could sign him after next season ...How do you pass that up?

Staal - Staal- Sutter- Sutter down the middle. :letssee:

x

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Well I actually don't think he's moving up either. Just might make some sense given our needs.

Now on the FA thing. Other than Parise, who else would fit the bill? Seems like the market is likely going to favor the FA this year. Parise would be awsome. He is NJ's captain,and he does have some pretty good talent there. Just seems like a long shot.

Who else is out there? Might have to work a trade.

I think a trade is the way to do it...I've said it before and I'll say it again...send that #8 to Columbus with Pitkanen and a forward (or two or heck, even three) to see if we can get Nash. Nash and Staal played very well together in the Olympics and at 6'4" and about 220, Nash really fits the bill of the power forward we need on that line. Parise is a great talent but he's not a big guy.

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We need a right-handed winger to play with Staal, and on the PP.

Besides, JR has already penciled in Welsh to fill a center spot. :huh:

You really wouldn't be interested if a big-proven-Stanley Cup winning-Versatile-All star center if he was available?

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I think a trade is the way to do it...I've said it before and I'll say it again...send that #8 to Columbus with Pitkanen and a forward (or two or heck, even three) to see if we can get Nash. Nash and Staal played very well together in the Olympics and at 6'4" and about 220, Nash really fits the bill of the power forward we need on that line. Parise is a great talent but he's not a big guy.

I think Nash is more of what we need, than Parise. But hey - beggers can't be choosers. The only reason I would trade for top line forward is because I think that helps open the door to sign Suter if he is available.

Nash has a NTC, correct? He would have to approve coming here. I'm not sure his "list of teams" is what he's sticking with.

It's rumored the Rangers offered Brandon Dubinsky, 21-year-old, first round draft choice, top defense prospect Tim Erixon, 2011 first-round draft choice J.T. Miller and 2010 second-round pick Christian Thomas, along with a 2012 first-round selection.

Could JR match that? I actually think so. Will he? Don't think so. And maybe he shouldn't.

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You really wouldn't be interested if a big-proven-Stanley Cup winning-Versatile-All star center if he was available?

Jordan Staal would be awesome to have. He's exactly what we need, as there is a need for a second line center. However, coastal is right. Priorities first! Get our first line winger, then figure out the Allen thing, whether that's signing Allen or replacing him (I WANT Suter!!).

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In my opinion, JR has to shoot for the moon and take a run the best possible players out there that will fill immediate needs for this team. I realize we have a huge need for a winger and a defenseman but a center like JStaal doesn't come available too often and would cure a lot of woes with the top lines quickly. Not to mention open up some real possibilities for Sutter who is stuck because of lack of personnel. I say take a run at anything even remotely attainable, JR is bound to land at least one of them.

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Some chatter in Detroit about moving Franzen. 4 million per year and a point scorer looks good to me.

JR needs to shoot higher imo, go after a top player just coming into his prime and lock him up for a few years. Franzen is already 32.

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Who is that guy in Phoenix getting game winners and still lighting them up in his 40's????? Oh yeah Whitney, didn't he play here, didn't we let him go 2 years ago. 32 years old and 50 + points per season...... yeah that's good reason to pass.

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Here are the top goal scorers for 2011-2012...questions...who could be available? Who fits our needs?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122ALLSASALL&sort=goals&viewName=summary

Realistically, it's Nash, Perry maybe Moulson via trade and Parise as a UFA...

JVR from Philly could be something interesting as well, I'd think.

Edited by Law-Dawg

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Who is that guy in Phoenix getting game winners and still lighting them up in his 40's????? Oh yeah Whitney, didn't he play here, didn't we let him go 2 years ago. 32 years old and 50 + points per season...... yeah that's good reason to pass.

You never know, we might see him again too ;)

Whitney (and Recchi for that matter) are the exception and not the norm. I wouldn't be willing to take my chances on an older player when I have a good chance of making a huge and much needed splash with a top player just hitting his prime similar to Staal and Ward.

Would you take your chances and your cap money and give it to Whitney to come back for a year or two this summer?

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If a Jordon Staal is available and you can get him you get him. We need a winger but we need a center too. We have for years now. Skinner, Jordon Staal and Ruutu on a second line sounds good to me. We would still need to solve our winger problem but we might have some options. Moving Sutter to top line wing is a possibility and adding a third line center.

The odds J. Staal is really available is low in my opinion.

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If a Jordon Staal is available and you can get him you get him. We need a winger but we need a center too. We have for years now. Skinner, Jordon Staal and Ruutu on a second line sounds good to me. We would still need to solve our winger problem but we might have some options. Moving Sutter to top line wing is a possibility and adding a third line center.

The odds J. Staal is really available is low in my opinion.

Agreed, you don't pass on adding a player like that if you can. That would be like passing on the #1 draft pick just because you don't happen to need a defenseman that year (if he was a dman) as much as you need a forward. You take the best possible player and find a way to make room for him. JStaal is one of the better proven centers in the league, and will be for years to come. The Canes had a great team in 06 but still managed to "find room" to add Recchi and Weight into their line up because they were proven veteran players who could make a difference.

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You really wouldn't be interested if a big-proven-Stanley Cup winning-Versatile-All star center if he was available?

Like I said, IMO, our most immediate needs are a proven, scoring, top-line winger to play with Staal. Preferably a right-handed shot and a guy who can also shore up an improving PP. The other most immediate pressing need is a major upgrade for our defense. I've said it just about every offseason so why not again, it doesn't matter how many goals you score if your own net is full of pucks. It's surprising to me how many just ignore that, particularly JR.

If I thought we could accomplish both these things going into next season, then yes, I'd pass on giving up any assest for J. Staal right now.

And a question: just how do you go about trading for J. Staal and what do you give up? Anyone think Pittsburgh is going to just give him up for Hardees coupons? He's not a UFA until the 2013-14 season. All this J. Staal talk might be a little premature?

Edited by coastal_caniac

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