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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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JR has 12 forwards signed to one-way deals, Welsh would make it 13. It will be interesting to see what happens in the bottom 6.

I've almost given up hope for a more balanced defense, but not completely.

Like I said, JR is on a roll. :notworthy:

Well he has assets and now for a trade on defense and now that he has just dominated the offensive upgrade game, he can relax and make the right move on defense with almost no pressure on him.

I still think he can move Pits or McBain plus one or two of our bottom 6 forwards for a very solid shut down guy.

I really wonder what Muller thinks of Pitkanen and/or McBain. Just seems with Murphy in the wings one of them could go.

Who would you move? Want?

Edited by remkin

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This points out what a wonderfully unique position we are in. We now have too many top 6 forwards.

I don't disagree with Tlusty in the top 6, but who do you kick out?

Even with a very off year in goals Jussi was our #2 point producer. He's our only pure playmaker.

Ruutu? On paper he'd actually be the more logical choice. Tlusty put up more points than Ruutu last year and Tlusty didn't do much the first 2/3 of the year, so if he kept at the pace of his last 27....

The great thing is that if anyone is out of the top 6 for a while we have a serious replacement ready.

I could see (1) Semin,E.Staal,Tlusty (2) Skinner,J. Staal, Ruutu (3) Jokinen, Welsh, LaRose (4) Dwyer, Brent, Wallace to start the season. I can also see about three different line combos. I really don't think we are done trading/signing yet but its nice to have options open when it comes to our line combos.

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I really don't think we are done trading/signing yet...

Well that is a good point. We could trade Jussi and Joni to the same team for a stud stay at home dman.

The only thing about that is that Semin may only be a one year wonder, so I hate to give up any other top 6 forwards.

Edited by remkin

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I think we are still looking for that 4th line wing and maybe if the opportunity presents itself a 3rd line center. I think Tlusty is going to remain in the top 6. Just a hunch. Do you think we could start the season with the line-up we have now? I think we could and make moves as the season goes on.

I believe you will see Tlusty and Jokinen playing LW on the 1st and 3rd lines. IMO Tlusty will get first crack at playing with Eric Staal and Semin, just because of the chemistry they seemed to have in the last 3rd of the season. If Muller doesn't have the 3rd line as total checking line, I think Jokinen will make it a scoring line that checks.

We really need to trade/shed some bottom 6 forwards. I wonder how tough Welsh is. He's good size that can sill fill-out some. I remember him saying, he would play however Muller wanted: scoring, checking, rugged, wing or center. Francis, Stillman, Brindy, and Muller may want to see what he can do before they look for a 3rd line center. Somebody suggested Peverley; IMO he would be a good trade. I really wish Stewart would be more physical with that big body of his. Arnott and D. Moore are UFA's that will be gone before the season starts.

I'd still like to trade Pitkanen and 1 or 2 bottom 6 forwards for young Adam McQuaid, a true tough, shut-down d-man. Colaiacovo and Rozsival are UFA's out there and they would be good stay at home d-men to have; but I was only looking at trades to move some of our depth forwards.

Anyway, these are my musing after the day's exhilaration with the Semin signing.

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I'd still like to trade Pitkanen and 1 or 2 bottom 6 forwards for young Adam McQuaid, a true tough, shut-down d-man.

Holy overpayment, Batman! ^_^

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Holy overpayment, Batman! ^_^

HAH! You're right. Back to the drawing board.

Maybe for Peverley and McQuaid then. Huh?

Edited by Bill_B

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Well he has assets and now for a trade on defense and now that he has just dominated the offensive upgrade game, he can relax and make the right move on defense with almost no pressure on him.

I still think he can move Pits or McBain plus one or two of our bottom 6 forwards for a very solid shut down guy.

I really wonder what Muller thinks of Pitkanen and/or McBain. Just seems with Murphy in the wings one of them could go.

Who would you move? Want?

I don't know because I think our best shot at upgrading our defensive balance might come later, at a firesale.

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Now that we have Semin to meet our declared off-season goal we still need to add a stay at home D-man and a tough 4th liner with some skill. I would also add we might need to address our 3rd line center and backup goalie.

I think we will let Peters have a shot at backup but if he doesn't show early my guess is we go shopping around late November.

I think we sign Welsh to a 2way contract before we go shopping for the 3rd line center issue. If we can find one we sign one and let Welsh get a year or two in Charlotte. If we can't sign/trade for a proven 3rd line center we ride with Welsh.

I don't think Wallace was what we had in mind to toughen up the 4th line but the guy does have NHL experience and a reputation of hitting everything on the ice.I still think we are looking for a tough 4th liner with some skill.

The defense...we got Corvo back to play with Gleason and Faulk and Harrison aren't going anywhere. That leaves Pitkanen, McBain, Murphy and Sangs as potential trade material. If one of them makes a trade work to get us a tougher defense I pull the trigger.

Up top we have Nodl, Stewart and one of Jokinen, Tlusty or LaRose to make a deal. I think that would give us the assets to make a deal.

x

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We seem intent in filling 3rd line center from within and we have candidates. I don't think we are trading Jokinen or Pitkanen at this point unless we get a steal of a return. If I were a betting man, I think we go into the season with what we have and go from there. We can win with the lineup we have, now that Semin is in the fold.

Edited by ironman87

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A bit early perhaps, but I'm really looking forward to getting a look at Victor Rask.

He's a prospect that could push anybody for that 3rd line center position, at least based on what he did with Calgary last season. His game has translated very well to NA.

I'll be following him closely in Charlotte. Quitely, IMO, he's likely our most promising forward prospect in the system, that fills an urgent need.

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You all talk of getting a decent shutdown D-man...and I have your solution. Marc Staal!! Trade Joni and someone else and maybe a 2nd rounder for him.

Get it done JR...the fans demand it!

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You all talk of getting a decent shutdown D-man...and I have your solution. Marc Staal!! Trade Joni and someone else and maybe a 2nd rounder for him.

Get it done JR...the fans demand it!

NYR wouldn't even listen to any offers for Marc, their defense is too sound to mess with it.

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You all talk of getting a decent shutdown D-man...and I have your solution. Marc Staal!! Trade Joni and someone else and maybe a 2nd rounder for him.

Get it done JR...the fans demand it!

The only way we get Marc is by prying him from the NYR GMs cold dead hands

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You all talk of getting a decent shutdown D-man...and I have your solution. Marc Staal!! Trade Joni and someone else and maybe a 2nd rounder for him.

Get it done JR...the fans demand it!

I agree with your idea. Does anybody know when his contract is up? Maybe we can toss in the proverbial bag of pucks.

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Im not sure a big name D-man is needed or worth what it would take in trade.. The difference now for teams facing the Canes is there are two lines of serious legit scorers. No more sand bagging, which means less break away shots for Wardo... If these guys can play together, this season is going to be fun.

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Im not sure a big name D-man is needed or worth what it would take in trade.. The difference now for teams facing the Canes is there are two lines of serious legit scorers. No more sand bagging, which means less break away shots for Wardo... If these guys can play together, this season is going to be fun.

I agree Pamlico. And unless it is a huge upgrade, I'd be cool to any trade of Pitkanen as I'm interested to see how Muller utilizes a healthy Pitkanen (Pits was injured for much of Muller's stint last season) and want to see Pitkanen feed pucks to a Top 6 that now should have some idea of what to do with the puck.

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I agree Pamlico. And unless it is a huge upgrade, I'd be cool to any trade of Pitkanen as I'm interested to see how Muller utilizes a healthy Pitkanen (Pits was injured for much of Muller's stint last season) and want to see Pitkanen feed pucks to a Top 6 that now should have some idea of what to do with the puck.

Agreed. I would much rather trade McBain over Pitkanen. M.Staal would just be too hard to pry away from NYR.

I wonder if we can put something together for Bogosian. He's what we need in a dman.

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I agree Pamlico. And unless it is a huge upgrade, I'd be cool to any trade of Pitkanen as I'm interested to see how Muller utilizes a healthy Pitkanen (Pits was injured for much of Muller's stint last season) and want to see Pitkanen feed pucks to a Top 6 that now should have some idea of what to do with the puck.

Count me in this camp. I'd really like to see what a healthy Pitkanen can do before deciding to give up on him. He was having a great season before the first injury hit and that was under a defensive system that wasn't as suited to his style of play.

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It would be interesting to see if Muller could get the good Joni out more often. There is no doubt that when he is on his game he is very good. He's led a few teams in ice time so multiple coaches want him out there.

I guess the question is the overall effectiveness of having him skate deep into the offensive zone. I really don't know the answer. My simple math suggests that for a dman to routinely do that he has to be at least as effective as a forward in keeping the puck in the zone and then eventually getting back to the blueline, and the team has to be able to adjust as a forward has to hold down Joni's blueline position until he is done wheeling around the goal line. It would seem that the advantage is that it is somewhat disruptive to the other team that doesn't know who to cover, but the disadvantage seems to be a disruption to our team also, as well as the occasional need for a forward to skate backwards when the puck goes the other way.

Then again, one has to think that Murphy is going to be doing a bit of that also, and McBain likes to pinch a bit, (and Corvo too for that matter) so maybe we just figure it out and use our dmen up in the play and concede a few shots against forwards trying to play defense or no defense if the forward doesn't cover.

I would add that the idea of trading Joni does not assume we are just dumping him. I would only favor it if Joni plus a couple of lower level forwards/prospects brought back a more traditional shut down guy who is established as good in that role. I wonder though if not signing Allen pretty much sets the defense as is.

I do like Pamlico's idea that maybe a chunk of our shots against are not from "bad" defensemen but from a relative lack of sustained 5 on 5 offense leading to rushes and sustained zone time in our end. In that case, the best defense is a good offense. We definitely have that, not only up front, but from our d also.

Edited by remkin

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All this talk of defensive defenseman and Joni got me thinking.

No doubt we are suddenly stocked up front. I firmly believe that E Staal, J Staal, Semin and Skinner can all be top 20 forwards in points. And if Jussi is feeding these guys and pots a few, he could slip in the top 30. That would be 5 guys in the top 30. There are 30 teams. Then add 20 goal potential for Ruutu, LaRose, Tlusty. Yikes...

But while we may not be bruising on defense, we surely will score a ton from back there.

Harrison's 9 goals was #20 in the league last year for dmen.

McBain's 8 and Faulk's 8 were tied for #29

Pitkanen's 40 assist year would have put him #4 in the league last year.

Corvo's last year with the Canes he was #29 in the league in points.

And Murhy is supposed to have sick skills on offense.

Sure traditionally strong defenses are a key piece to winning, but some of the winningest teams put up a lot of goals. As mentioned, it is hard for the other guy to score when you have the puck in their end. (Even harder when they are fishing it out of their own net).

Here are the top teams in goals per game in order last year:

Pittsburgh

Philly

Boston

Ottawa

Vancouver

Chicago

Detroit

How about that offensive powerhouse Washington? #21. Hmmm. Wonder if the new style is working out? Wonder how that might have held back Semin.

Anyway, another interesting point is that Semin kills penalties as do both Staals. It may mess the lines up, but wouldn't it be fun to see both Staals on the same PK unit?

Anyway, look out Pittsburgh, try to keep up with our scoring...from the blueline.

Edited by remkin

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Luke DeCock ‏@LukeDeCock - Per @ice_chip, Columbus wanted Skinner, Dalpe, a prospect, two firsts AND another top-nine forward for Nash

Howson... :screwy:

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