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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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The only potential issue I see with getting Jordan is that he and Skinner will be up for new contracts at the same time. I expect Skinner to fetch a pretty penny. 4-5 mil a season. Jordan will get 5-6 depending on how well he does this season. I just dont see us being able to afford that when we are trying to add atleast one big contract this season.

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Whitney? Hey, I have to admit the guy seems ageless. I was one who, after watching Mr Fitness Brindy tail off, was not up for testing father time with Whitney and I was wr..woo..r...r...o...rrrr..www....rr...on....rrr. not right. But the man will be in his 40's. At the risk of being.....not right again..I still say NO.

Again, I like Jokinen or Tlusty or Ruutu as the third piece on the top line...but lets find a first line winger that can be a true first line threat for a few years.

I loved Whitney here, but can the man really defy time at a first line level over and over? Does reality not have to kick in at some point? Maybe he is a first liner into his 50's, but having that as our plan reminds me of our plan to replace Cole. We need a real first line and we need to stop selling ourselves short there*.

*not a shot at Whitney's height.

I agree with you. The Wizard seems to be ageless but he's at that point where the odds are heavily against him. IMO, the only reason to bring him back is if he wants to "retire" a Hurricane not to be the much needed 1st line winger. As Luke DeCock mentioned in the N&O today, if that young top winger is not available this year, look at a Plan B 1-year deal with Iginla or Marleau to get you into next year.

As for Jordan Staal, he would be a great asset to add at 2nd line center. Heck, IMO he has so much potential (and size) he could be on the 1st line for many teams. He has more size & strength than Sutter with more scoring capability to go with PK skills. Not sure we have the trade assets to compete for him along with a new contract if we go after that top winger for Eric too. It would be nice for JR to figure a way. Heck go for Suter or Carle at the same time. It's only money.

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Don't know how many of you are on the twitter, but Chip Alexander retweeted a Pens radio guy that claims Jordan would prefer to be traded to the Canes if the Pens go that route. Wowza that was a long sentence. If JR could make that trade with equal money going out could that still leave room for the 1st line winger?

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Don't know how many of you are on the twitter, but Chip Alexander retweeted a Pens radio guy that claims Jordan would prefer to be traded to the Canes if the Pens go that route. Wowza that was a long sentence. If JR could make that trade with equal money going out could that still leave room for the 1st line winger?

I'm thinking it would have to be Pits..

Here's the tweet...

Mark Madden‏ - Staal has apparently said that if Pens trade him, he'd prefer to go to Carolina to play with brother Eric.

Edited by jeromeo87

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Just to reiterate, I don't think anyone, myself included, would not want Jordan Staal on our team. It will be fun to watch this play out, or not.

At least we have something to talk about! :banana:

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Unless the Pens organization all of a sudden became classy I have a gut feeling they'll be looking out for themselves before what Jordan wants.

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Not sure how much control Jordan has on his destiny this coming year. The Pens could trade him to the highest bidder for a one-and-done player, unless it is Carolina! I can't imagine Jordan wanting to stay with the Pens unless his role dramatically changes there.

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I'd say he's in the driver's seat, even though he doesn't have a NTC or NMC in his current contract. Who would sign him this summer, and give up the assets it would take to get him, knowing full well he will likely leave after a year as a UFA?

Well, maybe Montreal...

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Well, while I'm a first line winger guy, I will say this. It makes pretty good sense to bring in Staal but clearly only if we can sign him to a longer deal.

There is a lot to be said for being set down the middle. Over the long term we are drafting at #8. Maybe we find our long term first line winger there.

There are two guys with a legit chance at being solid first line wingers that we have: Tlusty and Jussi.

Jussi had an off year potting goals, but his assists were good, and if he can find the net a few more times he can be legit first line material.

Tlusty put up solid second line numbers last year, but they were mostly in the second half. Project his second half out and he is pretty close (seriously do it, I can't find the data). So, assuming he continues and even improves his second half trend and stays healthy, he could do it.

So:

Tlusty/E.Staal/Jussi

Skinner/J.Staal/Ruutu

LaRose/Sutter/Dwyer or Bowman

IF Tlusty and Jussi deliver, that would be a very good top 9, I have to admit. The top line is average if either Tlusty or Jussi came into form, (but the 2nd and 3rd lines would be very very good no matter what). And IF Tlusty AND Jussi delivered, we'd be solid 1-9. If both struggle we'd struggle. But I have MUCH more faith that they will play well than I did in Stewart and Poni.

Hopefully we have a really nice draft pick ready to slide into a slot in a year or two after that.

Hmmmmm. I could live with that. I still prefer the big-time winger like Parise, but J.Staal would work.

Edited by remkin

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Why not trade the 1st round pick for Staal AND sign Parise?

Parise/Staal/Jokinen

Ruutu/Staal/Skinner

Tlusty/Sutter/Bowman or Welsh or LaRose or Dwyer

Remaining winger/Brent/Other remaining winger

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Unless the Pens organization all of a sudden became classy I have a gut feeling they'll be looking out for themselves before what Jordan wants.

I doubt the Pens will not put their team interest first but Jordan Staal will be a UFA at the end of next season. If he wants the Canes then anyone but the Canes who trade for him has to know that they may be trading for a one season rental. That might limit the Pens options.

This is getting interesting...Don't you agree?

x

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If JR/we/I were scared of Whitney's age 3 years ago, why would he/ya'll/you consider him again? Look, I'm tickled poopless that the guy has had the extended career that he has had. Currently there are only 3 players in the league older than Ray. How long do you really think it continues? A deep pockets team can afford to make that gamble where every dollar JR spends needs to produce (and it hasn't of late).

J. Staal would be great here if it could happen, but Uncle PK is going to have to open the checkbook up to bring in him, Winger "X", and Defenseman "Y". To do that, get ready for a couple of guys like Joni and Jussi to depart and also that 1st round draft choice this year. I don't have any issues with trading the draft pick, but it has to happen IF J. Staal is in the works.

Adding, say a J. Staal, Parise, and Suter would add about $21 mil to the payroll and then Skinner is going to get paid. Losing Jussi and Joni would take $7.5 of that. Is PK ready to spend another $15 mil for several years?

Edited by super_dave_1

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I could see a trade J Staal for Joni Pitkanen. Joni and Staal both make 4.5. Staal is a FA after 2012/13 and Pitkanen after 2013/14. The Pens need defense and I think the offensive minded Joni would fit. We need top 6 help and I'm sure J. Staal would fit. Would we have to throw in a late draft pick or a prospect. Maybe or maybe not.

The new CBA probable won't me hammered out until fall (PLEASE, please, please) and by then JR would know what the cap top and bottom will be.

This isn't a prediction but rather idle talk in an off season that really hasn't started yet.

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I could see a trade J Staal for Joni Pitkanen. Joni and Staal both make 4.5. Staal is a FA after 2012/13 and Pitkanen after 2013/14. The Pens need defense and I think the offensive minded Joni would fit. We need top 6 help and I'm sure J. Staal would fit. Would we have to throw in a late draft pick or a prospect. Maybe or maybe not.

Sold! Pits for J Staal? Where do I sign?

I am not a Pits hater at all, but we have a lot of offensive minded dmen, and we did OK when he was out. That does of course bring the defensive end of things up.

Harrison

Gleason

McBain

Pitkanen

Faulk

Joslin

Allen?

Murphy?

Spacek?

If we don't sign Allen we are going to need more shut down help for sure, maybe even if we do.

We have defensive bodies. We have defensive prospects. We need to potentially add a more shut down guy. I can take or leave Joni. I can take J. Staal.

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Rem,

With McBain, Faulk, and The young one in waiting I see Pits being moved. I think Allen will be re-signed. I don't see Spacek coming back. I think Spacek just didn't want to go to a team that was interested and JR respected that. A shut down dude like Carle is the best. I just think the line for Suter will be too long. I think we need to spend the most on a winger like Parise or trade for Brown or Marleau. Then smaller money signing Carle vs a max contract on Suter.

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Reading Michael Smith's Rutherford Round-up this morning I was a little surprised to see JR think Jeremy Welsh could make the team next year.

He’s a player that should be able to play in our top nine,” Rutherford said. “He clearly understood the game. He’s a very smart player. The speed of the game was not a problem for him. He’s a real character guy, and he’s in great shape. I’d be surprised if he was not in our top nine next year.”

x

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I was a bit surprised about his comments on Welsh, I think that could give him some more options in terms of trading for that top 3 forward if it comes to that.

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I honestly don't understand the Welsh talk. But, of course, I haven't really seen him player, either.

Chip was tweeting stuff about how JR is now talking about going after a winger or a center, instead of just talking after a winger. This probably is in light of all of the Jordan Staal talk. JR mentioned how E.Staal has played wing.

I know a lot here are in favor of E.Staal playing wing. I am not. E.Staal IS a center; regardless of who you bring in, E.Staal IS and SHOULD stay a center. Besides, Parise/E.Staal/Tlusty > E.Staal/J.Staal/Tlusty.

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Reading Michael Smith's Rutherford Round-up this morning I was a little surprised to see JR think Jeremy Welsh could make the team next year.

He’s a player that should be able to play in our top nine,” Rutherford said..... I’d be surprised if he was not in our top nine next year.”

x

OK, I know JR is just talking, and I'm pretty sure he said similar stuff about Dalpe, but if we take the man at his word, then JR might be thinking someone else gets moved or at least not signed. It is hard to see any role for Stewart other than 4th line also.

Assuming no big names get traded from the current top 9:

Staal, Skinner, Ruutu, Jussi, Sutter, Tlusty, LaRose are locks for top 9 (seven guys). Some would put Dwyer in there also, though I don't have a problem with Dwyer on the 4th line and killing penalties. If we put Welsh in there and add either a top winger or second line center, that's 9.

Brent is a lock for 4th line center. If Dwyer is one wing, that leaves one spot. Some have hinted we might need a goon or at least a "physical presence" on the team. If so we are done with no room for: Nodle, Bowman, BSutter, Stewart, our first round pick, or any prospects Dalpe, Nash, etc. to even have a shot at cracking the line up.

It is interesting JR chose to make those comments based on one NHL game. Boychuk looked pretty darned good his first game....

Still, I did also like the way Welsh looked in that one game, and I could see a scenario where JR tries to trim a touch of salary by putting him in the 9th position on the third line and trade say LaRose as part of a bigger deal.

In the end we have a lot of options in the bottom half of the forward lines, and it's all good if JR adds that key piece to the top 6.

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I honestly don't understand the Welsh talk. But, of course, I haven't really seen him player, either.

Chip was tweeting stuff about how JR is now talking about going after a winger or a center, instead of just talking after a winger. This probably is in light of all of the Jordan Staal talk. JR mentioned how E.Staal has played wing.

I know a lot here are in favor of E.Staal playing wing. I am not. E.Staal IS a center; regardless of who you bring in, E.Staal IS and SHOULD stay a center. Besides, Parise/E.Staal/Tlusty > E.Staal/J.Staal/Tlusty.

Didn't see this when I posted. Feel compelled to jump in.

I was on the would Staal be better at wing? Bandwagon. But that was during Eric's utterly woeful start to the season, and after about 7 years of terrible faceoff % and the league's worst (out of several hundred players) plus minus. Then the coach was changed and poof a new Eric emerged from the ashes of the old Eric. New Eric is a very effective center. Wins faceoffs, backchecks, etc. etc.

This did get me thinking of one thing though. E.Staal and by extension the Canes have suffered some really bad starts. So, if one were to consider important trends for next year, getting Eric off to a good start might be high on the list. Getting HIM someone to play with should be the priority. (As you mentioned with the preference of Parise). Of course there is the real world and Parise is probably a pipe dream, and if J. Staal becomes available, especially with a new contract, for the right price, I think we change the plan. But all else considered get Staal a winger.

Edited by remkin

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I say this with the utmost respect but the Penguins are not going to trade Jordan Staal for Joni Pitkanen. The Penguins have one or two guys who will be ready to make the defensive roster next year, thus creating a log jam at D. Additonally, the last thing the Pens needs in another "offensive minded" defensemen.

I couldn't believe your media guy insinuated that on a Pittsburgh radio show this am. That would have been like Philly trading Mike Richards for Tomas Kaberle.

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Yeah, MCD10 is right. This is an interesting story. J.Staal has one year remaining on his contract and is going to want a raise on his next one. Penguins probably won't have the money to resign him, so should they trade him now or let him walk next July 1? If they decide to trade him, what kind of value are they going to want? J.Staal IS on his final year of this contract, so a lot of teams might would rather wait for when his a free agent.. I don't know.. tough call for Pittsburgh.

As far as the Canes go, I would LOVE J.Staal, as I think we have a big hole in the 2nd line center position. However, if getting J.Staal means not at least trying to get Parise, I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it. The only way I would be ok with J.Staal coming here is if both Staals were playing center, and JR went after a second tier first liner, like Whitney.

I'm standing by what I said earlier. I line up that consists of:...

Whitney E.Staal Jokinen/Tlusty

Skinner J.Staal Ruutu

sounds like a winning line up.

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I say this with the utmost respect but the Penguins are not going to trade Jordan Staal for Joni Pitkanen. The Penguins have one or two guys who will be ready to make the defensive roster next year, thus creating a log jam at D. Additonally, the last thing the Pens needs in another "offensive minded" defensemen.

I couldn't believe your media guy insinuated that on a Pittsburgh radio show this am. That would have been like Philly trading Mike Richards for Tomas Kaberle.

Everything is really speculation right now...isn't it. I can't imagine the Pens will let J. Staal go. But if its true J. Staal said if he was traded he wanted to be traded to the Canes he has put your Pens on notice and the rest of the league he wants to play in Carolina. That makes him a one season rental to all but the Canes in a trade scenario.

Now I believe money talks and an nice offer by the Pens would keep him in place but if the Pens can't or won't make the "nice" offer then they may be faced with getting the best they can while they can.

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My new slogan: Number 8 overall for Jordan Staal!

Do it JR!

Throw in another pick / player or prospect if you have too, but get r done!

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I really wonder if a team can seriously pay for a third line forward, and I seriously wonder if I were the NUMBER 2 overall pick if I am ok on the THIRD line for years to come. (I don't really wonder, I WOULDN'T BE).

I know, I know it's the team that matters, and what about winning cups, etc. However, he already has one, and there has to be a limit on the good of the team. Why not put him on the 4th line then? This guy might have Eric Staal potential. He has to be wondering what his career looks like pinned on the third line vs. second or first.

Jordan Staal put up 30 goal-paced numbers last year on the third line, imagine what he'd do with scoring wingers on the second line. He also put up 9 points in 6 playoff games this year.

I really think that Staal will have to move to wing or move on from Pittsburgh. Any talk of this kind of thing where there are a thousand options is a bit of a longshot, but this one makes more sense than just idle chatter.

Edited by remkin

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