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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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I think the Canes biggest problem is that the season starts too early. They seem to play their best after Christmas, so mabye the regular season should run from December-June. :thumbsup2:

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Faulk and Skinner are both special talents that I am looking forward to watching for years to come. Which is better is a bit like trying to decide if Ward or Staal is better. Varies from time to time, but both are great.

The idea that Skinner peaked at 18.....A_laughing_matter.gif.

He will get his head together. His talent is already there. He will put up 40 goals in a season, sooner than later.

Edited by remkin

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I really hope everybody is right about Skinner development. Nothing would make me happier, except maybe getting Parise and Suter. That was an interesting point about post-concussion behavioral issues, so maybe he will work through those issues by training camp.

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I don't see Skinner reaching 40 goals unless he starts becoming more of a teamplayer then a himself player. He tries to force everything and I felt at different times during the season the lack of excitement over some of his goals were showing players getting tired of it. I mean the kids ruined scoring chances more then he scored last year. He's had wide open guys screaming down with him he neglected to pass to.

You can score 20 goals doing it all yourself, you can score 40 if you start setting yourself up in smart positions on the ice and trust your teammates.

I don't really buy the concussion excuse some folks are trying to offer him but really I won't be able to argue that point without another season under his belt to really analyze it.

Edited by legend-1

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I don't really buy the concussion excuse some folks are trying to offer him but really I won't be able to argue that point without another season under his belt to really analyze it.

The only reason I offered that up is because I noticed during these playoffs both Crosby and Alfredsson had meltdowns and out of character actions that could be attributed to concussions. I actually read a separate article somewhere that talked about football players and the problems they have. It could be a stretch but it's just a theory I offered up. I don't want to make excuses for him because I totally agree he needs to grow up. It really bugged me the past season to see his displays of "childness" in a men's league. I wonder if Cole was the settling type mentor that Skinner needs. He really didn't have that this year.

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OK, I agree that last year's Skinner was not as big of a gust of fresh air and anticipation as the year before. I will also agree that he is a guy who makes his move to the net before passing. BUT, he put up 31 goals in the NHL at age 18 with that same style of play......31 goals. 18. Only 20 players had more goals than him that year. I'd say he should probably be a shoot first guy.

That said, I am projecting a growth for him as a player and a person. I just have a feeling that we will see a different Skinner this year. Yes, he's probably going to still be a little miffed at the refs (I'd point out that while we don't like some of that, the guy draws more penalties than anyone) when the opposition takes his head off, but on balance I think he'll look at last year and decide not to be that guy.

Same thing as a player. He has a special gift and talent for making plays for himself mainly. He's 19, most guys are just figuring their Junior game out and he already has 50 goals in the NHL. Why? Because he's been told to play his game. Asking him to dish out assists, be a veteran leader, play great defense, oh and don't do that razzle-dazzle thing, it kind of annoys us, but please score 30 goals each year, as a teenager.

He will increasingly develop those other aspects of the game if he is well coached. He is a smart kid. He'll figure it out. Maybe by the time he's 20 he'll also be an assist king while most guys are figuring out their AHL game.

Edited by remkin

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We drafted Skinner because of his ability to go to the net and his ability to score goals. I only see him getting better.

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We drafted Skinner because of his ability to go to the net and his ability to score goals. I only see him getting better.

Hope you're right about Skinner. Maybe if we get Parise here, he can take Jeff under his wing. Would rather see him turn into a Parise than a rookie Samsanov or a Semin.

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The only reason I offered that up is because I noticed during these playoffs both Crosby and Alfredsson had meltdowns and out of character actions that could be attributed to concussions. I actually read a separate article somewhere that talked about football players and the problems they have. It could be a stretch but it's just a theory I offered up. I don't want to make excuses for him because I totally agree he needs to grow up. It really bugged me the past season to see his displays of "childness" in a men's league. I wonder if Cole was the settling type mentor that Skinner needs. He really didn't have that this year.

I agree, I think we all agree that a pinch of growing up needs to occur in his game. My concerns kind of rest that after he does something stupid he doesn't seem to think he did something stupid. The smile never goes away and the only team it went away was after we lost that game not long ago (or was it?) because of his antics.

If this kid wants to keep his head though the real secret will be him not starting scrums everytime he doesnt like how he was touched. He is to small to be shoving around other teams defensemen after the whistle and THEN trying to skate away like their not going to do something . Every other player can just skate away from the net after being pushed around. Skinner just has to start something every time and towards the end of the season it became very obvious his linemates were tired of sticking up for him. There were times he was a one man versus three scrum.

I look at how Jussi handles it often times I've seen him take a crosscheck to his back he looks up to the rafters composes himself and skates away. If it's late in the game and he's had to many liberties taken against him he fights back. That's alot better then turning around and trying to fight a guy whose twice your size.

He needs to learn self preservation in this league and sticking up for yourself occasionally or letting the guys who can actually do something stick up for you would go a long way.

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He needs to learn self preservation in this league and sticking up for yourself occasionally or letting the guys who can actually do something stick up for you would go a long way.

and that would be... Who?

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Just to add more fuel to the Jordan Staal discussion Chip Alexander @ ice_chip just re-tweeted this link from Josh Yohe at the

Tribune-Review

Raleigh makes sense on many levels. The Hurricanes know it, and so does Staal.

The not so good is he thinks at least 4 other teams will have interest in J. Staal and mentions we might offer Sutter as a possible return in a Staal deal.

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Just to add more fuel to the Jordan Staal discussion Chip Alexander @ ice_chip just re-tweeted this link from Josh Yohe at the

Tribune-Review

The not so good is he thinks at least 4 other teams will have interest in J. Staal and mentions we might offer Sutter as a possible return in a Staal deal.

I guess that is a "not so good" aspect of this; however, I don't think we can expect to get J.Staal without trading a piece we really don't feel 100% comfortable dealing. With that being said, I think it would be silly and almost redundant for Pittsburgh to be interested in Sutter. Perhaps they have been spoiled with three excellent centers, but their REAL needs are a winger to play with Crosby and a defensive dman. They do have players that can effectively play center on the third line..

Also, do we really want to trade Sutter, maybe the best defensive forward in the game, to a team who is about to be in the same division as us? Do we really want to face a team multiple times a year that has Cosby, Malkin, and Sutter down the middle? I don't think JR will do it; I think he would rather wait for Staal to become a UFA. Just my opinion, of course.

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I guess that is a "not so good" aspect of this; however, I don't think we can expect to get J.Staal without trading a piece we really don't feel 100% comfortable dealing. With that being said, I think it would be silly and almost redundant for Pittsburgh to be interested in Sutter. Perhaps they have been spoiled with three excellent centers, but their REAL needs are a winger to play with Crosby and a defensive dman. They do have players that can effectively play center on the third line..

Also, do we really want to trade Sutter, maybe the best defensive forward in the game, to a team who is about to be in the same division as us? Do we really want to face a team multiple times a year that has Cosby, Malkin, and Sutter down the middle? I don't think JR will do it; I think he would rather wait for Staal to become a UFA. Just my opinion, of course.

I think your assessment is spot on.I don't think JR would trade Sutter either.

Most of our defensemen.

Except they don't. On occasion a Harrison, Allen on defense,Brent or Stewart on the forward lines would step up for someone but not that often and less often for Skinner.

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It all comes down to cap room and positioning.

Neal just signed for 5 million a year and scored 40 goals. He is not going anywhere.

Crosby 8.7 mil – UFA 2013-2014 season. Going to work on an early extension for him. Getting a raise and Pitt will never let him go unless he wants to leave.

Malkin 8.7 Mil – UFA 2014-2015 Season. Had a great season as a mild understatement. Pitt will go after his contract extension because having 2 100 point scorers on a team is just, well,,,,,nice.

Someone everyone forgets is Letang. Great defense man. Pitt’s best. He has a 3.5 mil contract and will be a UFA in the 2014-2015 season. He will be getting quite a raise when his contract comes around.

Unfortunately, none of the above personnel are going to go anywhere if Pitt has anything to say about it. Their talent really cannot be replaced.

Leaves Staal out there. He is not a star on the team and is only the 3rd line center. He plays tough minutes, but I am afraid the Pens will trade him and replace his skill set with 2 or 3 cheaper players.

3rd line checking centers can be found easily. Not with the point potential Jordan has, but with decent defensive skills. PKers can be found as well, again not with the same threat of a shorty though.

Staal will never be the 2nd line center in Pitt because of Crosby and Malkin(Unless one gets injured).

My only hope is that the Pens keep him around and put him on Crosby’s or Malkin’s

wing.

Big problem here is that the Pens don’t really need any more scoring. Crosby was out most of the year and the Pens still finished number 1 in goals scored.

A full year of Crosby and you can rationalize that you don’t need Staal’s points.

After all that babble my answer would be no, they can’t resign him.

They might keep him for his last year, make a playoff run with him, and then let him go where he wants in free agency.

The Pens have done that before, but………not really with anyone who can bring them a big return.

This is a business and as cool as I think Shero is, if someone makes him a good offer, Staal will be shipped out. If Staal likes the place he is being sent, he would have no problem with signing an extension before he moves.

Staal is a character guy. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, they all have a tendency to lose their cool. Staal takes it and keeps going. He would be a great asset to any team including the Pens, but money is money and there is not enough to go around.

I am not putting Staal down by any means. He is a player that can do it all without having a chip on his shoulder, a great leader and locker room guy(he is the vocal guy in the locker room when Crosby is out), only going to be 24, keeps his cool, has over 70 playoff games under his belt, and he works hard. Mentioned for the Selke, Plays PK(Scores shorties) and PP(Scores there too on the second unit), good on faceoffs, and really doesn't take dumb *edit* penalties.

He can't carry a team, but he sure as hell can lend a helping hand to a cup.

He had a 50 point(25 goals, 25 assists) year(his highest) this year in 62 games. He did get some 2nd line minutes and it showed. When Crosby played? Back to 3rd line where his wingers are Cooke and Kennedy. Sheesh! Full season, better wingers, first power play unit, and full 2nd line duty? 60 points easy. 70 points not far fetched. 80....well maybe not.

If he can't be signed by the July 1st, he will be available. Someone will pay for him this year. Waiting until next year for him to become a UFA will not be an option. A player with his skill set is hardly ever available on the market and someone will snatch him up. To think the Pens will not get a high price for him because he only has one year left on his contract is silly. Someone will pay through the nose for him and hope to sign him to an extension.

I am not saying he is a Crosby, Malkin, Nash, or Parise on the market, but on certain teams with certain systems, he would be worth his weight in gold.

To think he isn't worth a first round pick? Silly. There is NO guarantee that a draft pick will ever work out in the NHL. With Staal, you know what you have and he is only going to be 24.

A few knocks on him are he doesn't really play against top flight defensive units on the third line. They are usually right, but he plays against the top flight offensive units. If he still puts up scoring while shutting down the top line of other teams, how can you really argue this position?

He has been injured as of late. Nothing chronic though like a groin or hip or etc.

Subban cut his foot with his skate(damn him)

Deep infection from the cut on his foot(Damn PK again)

Puck hit his wrist during practice. Broken. (Damn the fates)

Knee injury. Knee on knee with Mike Rupp. (Damn Rupp's clumsy knee)

Injured yes, but really fluky.

The draft is in Pitt this year, so draft picks might be nice.

The Pens need a big, stay at home defensman to clear pucks and excess bodies from the crease.

Also, looking for a scoring winger to match with Crosby.

Prospect? Maybe. The Pens are in a win now mode and can't really wait for development of talent.

All of these pieces have to come cheaper than Staal of course.

Of course, Paul Martin would probably be up for movement, but he has a No Trade Clause in his contract. All bets are off for Staal being moved if they can get Martin's number(5 mil) off the books.

Just thought I would give you a little perspective from A Pen's fan. Sorry for too much babble and I hope I gave you a little more information than you had.

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It all comes down to cap room and positioning.

Neal just signed for 5 million a year and scored 40 goals. He is not going anywhere.

Crosby 8.7 mil – UFA 2013-2014 season. Going to work on an early extension for him. Getting a raise and Pitt will never let him go unless he wants to leave.

Malkin 8.7 Mil – UFA 2014-2015 Season. Had a great season as a mild understatement. Pitt will go after his contract extension because having 2 100 point scorers on a team is just, well,,,,,nice.

Someone everyone forgets is Letang. Great defense man. Pitt’s best. He has a 3.5 mil contract and will be a UFA in the 2014-2015 season. He will be getting quite a raise when his contract comes around.

Unfortunately, none of the above personnel are going to go anywhere if Pitt has anything to say about it. Their talent really cannot be replaced.

Leaves Staal out there. He is not a star on the team and is only the 3rd line center. He plays tough minutes, but I am afraid the Pens will trade him and replace his skill set with 2 or 3 cheaper players.

3rd line checking centers can be found easily. Not with the point potential Jordan has, but with decent defensive skills. PKers can be found as well, again not with the same threat of a shorty though.

Staal will never be the 2nd line center in Pitt because of Crosby and Malkin(Unless one gets injured).

My only hope is that the Pens keep him around and put him on Crosby’s or Malkin’s

wing.

Big problem here is that the Pens don’t really need any more scoring. Crosby was out most of the year and the Pens still finished number 1 in goals scored.

A full year of Crosby and you can rationalize that you don’t need Staal’s points.

After all that babble my answer would be no, they can’t resign him.

They might keep him for his last year, make a playoff run with him, and then let him go where he wants in free agency.

The Pens have done that before, but………not really with anyone who can bring them a big return.

This is a business and as cool as I think Shero is, if someone makes him a good offer, Staal will be shipped out. If Staal likes the place he is being sent, he would have no problem with signing an extension before he moves.

Staal is a character guy. Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, they all have a tendency to lose their cool. Staal takes it and keeps going. He would be a great asset to any team including the Pens, but money is money and there is not enough to go around.

I am not putting Staal down by any means. He is a player that can do it all without having a chip on his shoulder, a great leader and locker room guy(he is the vocal guy in the locker room when Crosby is out), only going to be 24, keeps his cool, has over 70 playoff games under his belt, and he works hard. Mentioned for the Selke, Plays PK(Scores shorties) and PP(Scores there too on the second unit), good on faceoffs, and really doesn't take dumb *edit* penalties.

He can't carry a team, but he sure as hell can lend a helping hand to a cup.

He had a 50 point(25 goals, 25 assists) year(his highest) this year in 62 games. He did get some 2nd line minutes and it showed. When Crosby played? Back to 3rd line where his wingers are Cooke and Kennedy. Sheesh! Full season, better wingers, first power play unit, and full 2nd line duty? 60 points easy. 70 points not far fetched. 80....well maybe not.

If he can't be signed by the July 1st, he will be available. Someone will pay for him this year. Waiting until next year for him to become a UFA will not be an option. A player with his skill set is hardly ever available on the market and someone will snatch him up. To think the Pens will not get a high price for him because he only has one year left on his contract is silly. Someone will pay through the nose for him and hope to sign him to an extension.

I am not saying he is a Crosby, Malkin, Nash, or Parise on the market, but on certain teams with certain systems, he would be worth his weight in gold.

To think he isn't worth a first round pick? Silly. There is NO guarantee that a draft pick will ever work out in the NHL. With Staal, you know what you have and he is only going to be 24.

A few knocks on him are he doesn't really play against top flight defensive units on the third line. They are usually right, but he plays against the top flight offensive units. If he still puts up scoring while shutting down the top line of other teams, how can you really argue this position?

He has been injured as of late. Nothing chronic though like a groin or hip or etc.

Subban cut his foot with his skate(damn him)

Deep infection from the cut on his foot(Damn PK again)

Puck hit his wrist during practice. Broken. (Damn the fates)

Knee injury. Knee on knee with Mike Rupp. (Damn Rupp's clumsy knee)

Injured yes, but really fluky.

The draft is in Pitt this year, so draft picks might be nice.

The Pens need a big, stay at home defensman to clear pucks and excess bodies from the crease.

Also, looking for a scoring winger to match with Crosby.

Prospect? Maybe. The Pens are in a win now mode and can't really wait for development of talent.

All of these pieces have to come cheaper than Staal of course.

Of course, Paul Martin would probably be up for movement, but he has a No Trade Clause in his contract. All bets are off for Staal being moved if they can get Martin's number(5 mil) off the books.

Just thought I would give you a little perspective from A Pen's fan. Sorry for too much babble and I hope I gave you a little more information than you had.

It was a nice perspective from a Pens point of view. Not sure we have a defensive Dman without a NTC. Plenty of prospects though. It must be nice to have a player with J.Staal's talent that is expendable. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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It all comes down to cap room and positioning.

.......................

Neal just signed for 5 million a year and scored 40 goals. He is not going anywhere.

Crosby 8.7 mil – UFA 2013-2014 season. Going to work on an early extension for him. Getting a raise and Pitt will you a little more information than you had.

Remkin you've got work to do to catch up on this guy....

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I think your assessment is spot on.I don't think JR would trade Sutter either.

Except they don't. On occasion a Harrison, Allen on defense,Brent or Stewart on the forward lines would step up for someone but not that often and less often for Skinner.

...and that might say something about what they think of Skinner's persistent skirmishes.

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...and that might say something about what they think of Skinner's persistent skirmishes.

Of course that is a possibility. I think we will see a better version of Skinner this upcoming season. That is my hope anyway. I think a summer off will do him wonders. I hope so because he has so much talent and is fun to watch when he isn't distracted by trying to get even.

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Of course that is a possibility. I think we will see a better version of Skinner this upcoming season. That is my hope anyway. I think a summer off will do him wonders. I hope so because he has so much talent and is fun to watch when he isn't distracted by trying to get even.

I really hope he comes back next season with a different perspective on the ice. I agree, when he's good, he's really, really good offensively...needs work of dishing the puck and on defense consistency.

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It was a nice perspective from a Pens point of view. Not sure we have a defensive Dman without a NTC. Plenty of prospects though. It must be nice to have a player with J.Staal's talent that is expendable. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Sigh.

Not expendable, just a cap room casualty. The Pens would love to have him back. Shero loves him. No money. If Martin gets moved, they will find a way to keep him.

I can't say it will be interesting from my point of view.

I very rarely get attached to a player on any of my sports teams. Everything is a business though and money makes things change. Problem is, when I really like a player, I usually follow them wherever they go. I am broken that way. Have liked the Pens since I was a kid and am not liking this situation at all. :(

I am excited for Staal though. I really think he is overlooked and his skills are an aside on a team like the Pens. It would be nice to see him get more of the spotlight to see what he can really do. He would get that with Carolina.

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