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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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Sigh.

Not expendable, just a cap room casualty. The Pens would love to have him back. Shero loves him. No money. If Martin gets moved, they will find a way to keep him.

I can't say it will be interesting from my point of view.

I very rarely get attached to a player on any of my sports teams. Everything is a business though and money makes things change. Problem is, when I really like a player, I usually follow them wherever they go. I am broken that way. Have liked the Pens since I was a kid and am not liking this situation at all. :(

I am excited for Staal though. I really think he is overlooked and his skills are an aside on a team like the Pens. It would be nice to see him get more of the spotlight to see what he can really do. He would get that with Carolina.

Do you think J. Staal can skate first line center? There has been some talk ( heck Rutherford said Eric can skate wing) Eric could move to wing on J. Staal line.

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Remkin you've got work to do to catch up on this guy....

I glanced at that post and omg.gif long even by my standards. But overall well thought out and though long, worth reading.

This quote I'm not sure about:

"To think the Pens will not get a high price for him because he only has one year left on his contract is silly. Someone will pay through the nose for him and hope to sign him to an extension."

A guy for one year is a long term rental. J. Staal is a bit of a hidden gem if one can be hidden on that team. His upside may be close to Eric's. Not going up against top pairings is not as big as having inferior linemates and getting less ice time (and he wouldn't see all top pairings on our second line either). J.Staal was chosen in the #2 slot, that tends to imply elite talent. Last year and the playoffs gave a sense of that, and as such, there have to be several GM's just licking their chops. And this seems to be a thin year for forwards in FA, so maybe the price will be higher than usual. But it is still for one year, so it will be less than it would normally have been. That is JR's kind of deal.

I would NOT give up Sutter and our pick thoug, Sutter plus prospects...maybe. Sutter is too valuable at his salary to any team, but especially a team that lets in goals like we do.

Edited by remkin

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Do you think J. Staal can skate first line center? There has been some talk ( heck Rutherford said Eric can skate wing) Eric could move to wing on J. Staal line.

This is a very good question.

A lot of people who are Pens fans will tell you he had his chance on the first line and he couldn't handle it.

The setting....

Crosby went out with brain pain and Malkin went out with his knee injury.

That left.......Staal.

Where has he been for all his years in the NHL? On the third line playing defensive hockey. To expect him to step up and carry a team at the snap of a finger I think is unfair.

"Well he played with Neal and couldn't get anything done." Neal had just been brought over at the trade deadline and was just learning how to play in the Penguin's system. Not a very accurate assessment.

This year was his real first taste of offensive hockey with a semi-healthy team on the 2nd line with the Pens. He played well and showed some play making ability. And then Crosby came back.....third line again. :(

Problem for me is that I REALLY can only compare him to centers I am really familiar with. When your other centers are Crosby and Malkin? He is not in their league. Crosby and Malkin can shine with skating poop on their wings. Staal needs a supporting cast and will make that cast better.

So my answer...

Not ready for first line duties yet.

Another year of offensive hockey is needed before an accurate statement can be made.

However.....

How well would he play with his brother? Do brothers play better together? They could be a bigger, tougher(way tougher) version of the Sedin twins. I actually would love to see how that worked out.

Throwing him on a first line with someone he grew up skating with might make him a first line center right away.

Jordan is a center though, not really a wing. He can play wing, but is more comfortable on the ice as a center. Would Eric move to the wing for his younger brother?

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I glanced at that post and omg.gif long even by my standards. But overall well thought out and though long, worth reading.

This quote I'm not sure about:

"To think the Pens will not get a high price for him because he only has one year left on his contract is silly. Someone will pay through the nose for him and hope to sign him to an extension."

A guy for one year is a long term rental. J. Staal is a bit of a hidden gem if one can be hidden on that team. His upside may be close to Eric's. Not going up against top pairings is not as big as having inferior linemates and getting less ice time (and he wouldn't see all top pairings on our second line either). J.Staal was chosen in the #2 slot, that tends to imply elite talent. Last year and the playoffs gave a sense of that, and as such, there have to be several GM's just licking their chops. And this seems to be a thin year for forwards in FA, so maybe the price will be higher than usual. But it is still for one year, so it will be less than it would normally have been. That is JR's kind of deal.

I would NOT give up Sutter and our pick thoug, Sutter plus prospects...maybe. Sutter is too valuable at his salary to any team, but especially a team that lets in goals like we do.

Yeah, sorry about the long post.

Verdict is still out on how close his upside is to Eric on the offense. On defense, I would go Jordan. Eric is more of a playmaker than Jordan is though. Eric has more of a scoring touch.

Jordan can get it done though. Pens PK was good(during the regular season) I can't tell you how many times Jordan was able to break away and get shots on goal during a PK. He did have a few shorties.

Watch, someone will pay the price the Pens want. Teams will want him badly enough. I didn't say it would make sense, but some GMs will be willing to gamble on a player like Jordan. If JR holds out for a lower price, he will lose. Of course, this is all speculation, but I have seen some winner deals in the past and those GMs are still around....

Jordan is not about the money. I will have to find it, but he said that he would take less money if he could get greater responsibility.

The team that gives him a shot at 1st or 2nd line duty really would have the inside track on getting a longer contract signed.

I just hope it isn't someplace like Columbus. I would cheer, but die a little inside.....

The problem with a Staal deal is that no one is going to be totally happy with the trade.

Each team is going to have to give up something they don't want to, but have to in order to get done what they need to do.

There are some really center starved teams out there that really would like to have Jordan Staal in their jersey.

The Pens need a cheap compliment for Crosby and toughness on D.

If he were on your team, wouldn't you rather keep Jordan? Unless.......your team had glaring holes that trading Staal would fix.

Frankly, I think the whole situation is....poop.

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I think Eric Staal would move to wing on a line with Jordan. E. Staal can skate wing and play well there. My feeling is he would thrive on the wing but how he would feel about it only Eric knows the answer.

I would rather see Jordan on our second line. Staal, Staal,Sutter down the middle would be strong IMO.

But like you need a winger for Sid we need a winger for E. Staal and we could use another defensive Dman. So what we have is the draft choice and ? to make a deal. I'm not convinced the Pens will trade Jordan Staal this summer.

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I have to think that the only way the Pens keep J.Staal is to move him to wing. Nothing else makes sense. But why haven't they done it yet? Maybe they do it this year to show Staal they're serious about putting him on a higher line. But maybe Staal likes being a center.

If Staal really wants to be a center then it's over between him and the Penguins.

Is a year of Staal worth a #8 pick? No. That's no knock on Staal, because I would be very very happy if we can get him without losing any of EStaal, Jussi, Skinner, Ruutu, Tlusty*, Sutter or the #8 pick. How can that possibly happen? Three way.

We need to move a puck moving Dman with value: Joni/McBain, they need defensive dman or a value winger. Find a team with one of those assets that needs a puck moving dman...

Yes, on average first round picks only make it about 50% of the time. But the #8 pick is a different ballgame.

If we can get JStaal signed for several years, and it costs us a Joni or McBain, but we keep that #8 pick and get a very nice winger, we'll be set for quite a while up front.

#8 Pick Winger, Staal, Tlusty, Staal, Skinner, Jussi, Ruutu, Sutter, LaRose.

With any half way decent defense that is a potentially elite team.

Next year we could pick up a guy with a year or two left on his contract to fill in until #8 pick is ready, or even try a prospect in there.

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Sorry, but I can't buy into this Jordan Staal stuff. Shero should have very little difficulty trading Paul Martin. According to cap geek he has a limited NTC and if you look, for example, at the Minnesota Wild defensive depth chart, he could easily return home and finish his career in their top pairing.

The money from a Martin trade would completely pay for the raises of Crosby, Staal, and Despres' salary (for replacing Martin). Problem solved.

Staal played on Malkin's line as a rookie and scored 29 goals. He can do that again. And he'd be happy. Again, problem solved.

You made it sound so simple. Not the case.

Little difficulty moving Martin? He has a name for being a good defenseman, but his play last year was sub-standard. Believe me, I hope they can dump his salary on someone. $5 mil for an under-performing defenseman is a tough sell. He will have to agree to where he wants to be shipped. Minnesota? Maybe not.

OK, they move him and Crosby and Staal are taken care of for this year. Did you look at when Malkin and Letang need to be signed? One year after Crosby and Staal. The Pens have to be looking ahead at their contracts as well. Letang will get a big raise from 3.5 million and well, Malkin will get one too.

Staal can play on wing. He and Malkin are a trade off on center. Malkin is good at certain things and Staal is good at other. Who plays center? Staal is a team player though and will probably play wing if asked as long as he is on the 1a or 1b line the Penguins have.

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From the TribLIVE article...

It’s pretty simple: The Oilers don’t want to deal any of their young guns, but multiple reports out of Edmonton suggest that the Oilers would consider dealing the top overall pick for Staal.

When I read that, I just don't know how much of this article I would even pay attention to. Looks like another pie in the sky wishlist from a Pittsburgh media outlet. They simply don't have this type of leverage. "Gimme the first pick of the draft for an expensive free agent I can only guarantee to have for 1 year".

Thus, I can't take their claim as Sutter being the price with any credence either.

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From the TribLIVE article...

When I read that, I just don't know how much of this article I would even pay attention to. Looks like another pie in the sky wishlist from a Pittsburgh media outlet. They simply don't have this type of leverage. "Gimme the first pick of the draft for an expensive free agent I can only guarantee to have for 1 year".

Thus, I can't take their claim as Sutter being the price with any credence either.

Ridiculous. Trading that #1 overall pick is potentially the same as trading Stamkos for J.Staal. :screwy:

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MEMORANDUM

TO: JR

FROM: PITTSBURGH FANS & PITTSBURGH MEDIA OUTLETS

RE: Jordan Staal

Be prepared to be hosed in any acquisition of Jordan Staal through trade. Also, be prepared to be happy to be hosed, once you are hosed. That is all.

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I glanced at that post and omg.gif long even by my standards. But overall well thought out and though long, worth reading.

This quote I'm not sure about:

"To think the Pens will not get a high price for him because he only has one year left on his contract is silly. Someone will pay through the nose for him and hope to sign him to an extension."

A guy for one year is a long term rental. J. Staal is a bit of a hidden gem if one can be hidden on that team. His upside may be close to Eric's. Not going up against top pairings is not as big as having inferior linemates and getting less ice time (and he wouldn't see all top pairings on our second line either). J.Staal was chosen in the #2 slot, that tends to imply elite talent. Last year and the playoffs gave a sense of that, and as such, there have to be several GM's just licking their chops. And this seems to be a thin year for forwards in FA, so maybe the price will be higher than usual. But it is still for one year, so it will be less than it would normally have been. That is JR's kind of deal.

I would NOT give up Sutter and our pick thoug, Sutter plus prospects...maybe. Sutter is too valuable at his salary to any team, but especially a team that lets in goals like we do.

Im with u Rem, no way, we let Sutter go.. i saw rumours of sutter, the 8th pick, mcbain or faulk for Paul Martin and Jordan.. no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jr wouldnt be that dumb.. god please.. NO! PLEASE J :screwy: R, THat would be worst than having a weak moment... im sure its just wishful thinking on a pens fans part..

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MEMORANDUM

TO: JR

FROM: PITTSBURGH FANS & PITTSBURGH MEDIA OUTLETS

RE: Jordan Staal

Be prepared to be hosed in any acquisition of Jordan Staal through trade. Also, be prepared to be happy to be hosed, once you are hosed. That is all.

LOL! Some of the trade ideas I have seen are really silly. Staal is worth A first round pick, not THE first round pick. Still not written in concrete that a draft pick pans out, but 1 through 5 should at least be pretty damn solid.

Fans love their players and overvalue them.

I simply stated what the Pens are facing and what they would seem to be looking for.

I never posed any trade ideas.

I am really only familiar with 4 or 5 of your players, so how could I gauge something like that.

Staal is not worth Nash trade value, nor Parise money. More like Carter. He is not a star. He is a great player, a team player, and very solid.

As I stated before, I don't think it would be wise or correct to pay a king's ransom for 1 year of Jordan Staal with only a possibility of more. Someone IS going to do it if he makes it to the trading block.

I came to your boards because Jordan did state he would like playing for Carolina if he was traded. I was curious and more than a little interested in seeing what Eric and Jordan could do together on a team. I wanted to know what Carolina might be able to put together to get Staal here.

3-way trades are rough and you REALLY would want a player to go to those lengths, but some have been done and were quite successful. I can see this option with possibilities.

One of the above trade ideas above scared me though and has some truth to it. It was a bad trade idea, but not something I liked at all and I hope the Pens won't do it.

Say no one wants to pick up Paul Martin's contract or the teams that will, Mr. Martin wants nothing to do with because of his limited NTC. How do you get someone to swallow such a nasty pill as his contract? You sugar coat that pill. You package him and his contract with something another team really wants. Packaging Staal with Martin to get his 5 mil off the books would suck and I don't think the Pens would do it. A person could really begin to dislike an organization that would do that to their favorite player. :( I would not believe those rumors either.

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The 8th pick makes sense to me as does the prospect. I'm not sure McBain thrown in wouldn't be an overpayment. McBain is still improving and is a puck moving Dman with improving defensive skill. Yet he isn't the defensive minded dman the Pens seem to want.

If we trade McBain who would play with Joni? McBain seems to be the only Dman we have that can or is willing to cover for the Joni moments we have all admired so much the last couple of seasons. :sarcasm:

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LOL! Some of the trade ideas I have seen are really silly.

I stopped reading there because I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, and you aren't the only Pens fan in the hockey universe. :) But yes, the majority of what I've read is ridiculous overpayment. In summary, this is what your fans, in general, have come up with as the price Shero should demand for J. Staal. Much of it is based on the return in either the Richards or Burns trade last year.

1. A young winger who has proven himself in the NHL

2. plus, a top prospect or a high 1st round draft pick

3. plus, a late 1st or something close, like an early second.

And on top of that, we should be happy to take back Martin's contract.

Thus, the memo.

Edit: Forgot to add.....welcome ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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The 8th pick makes sense to me as does the prospect. I'm not sure McBain thrown in wouldn't be an overpayment. McBain is still improving and is a puck moving Dman with improving defensive skill. Yet he isn't the defensive minded dman the Pens seem to want.

If we trade McBain who would play with Joni? McBain seems to be the only Dman we have that can or is willing to cover for the Joni moments we have all admired so much the last couple of seasons. :sarcasm:

I think the last thing we need to do is pair McBain with Pitkanen. That was quite obvious when the staff placed McBain with Spacek, and the results were quite good.

McBain needs someone who plays a different style, and a more conservative game. Putting him and Pitkanen together just didn't work at all.

(P.S. OBX'r, I'll post about anything to get away from the J. Staal stuff)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Well ESPN is reporting that Alex Semin does not want to sign an extension with the Caps and will head to free agency (not exactly a surprise). I know a lot of folks would rather we avoid him like the plague, but I think he could be a decent option if other options (Parise, J. Staal, Ryan, etc.) don't pan out. While his work ethic has been questioned in the past, what I saw of him in the playoffs was a very different player. He was diving to block shots, covering well defensively and still showing that offensive aspect. I'll be honest and say I didn't watch every game, so there's plenty I may have missed. I just think that if it's an attitude issue, Muller may be the right coach to correct it.

Again, he wouldn't be my first choice. I'd love to have a Parise and adding J. Staal would be really interesting as well. But if those options fail (or prove to be too expensive), I think I'd be alright giving him a shot on a 2-3 year deal.

Edited by Stealth-ch1

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I think the last thing we need to do is pair McBain with Pitkanen. That was quite obvious when the staff placed McBain with Spacek, and the results were quite good.

McBain needs someone who plays a different style, and a more conservative game. Putting him and Pitkanen together just didn't work at all.

(P.S. OBX'r, I'll post about anything to get away from the J. Staal stuff)

But will we re- sign Spacek and/or Allen?

(P.S. I'll post on almost anything to keep my mind off the long summer ahead.)

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But will we re- sign Spacek and/or Allen?

(P.S. I'll post on almost anything to keep my mind off the long summer ahead.)

Can't resist....we let Spacek walk and replace Allen with....Paul Martin. :whiteflag: PP

(PS, you have a point there)

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Can't resist....we let Spacek walk and replace Allen with....Paul Martin. :whiteflag: PP

(PS, you have a point there)

:coollaugh:

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I'm pretty sure Staal wants to. Didn't he say he did?

If he didn't, wouldn't he or his agent deny any rumors indicating he did? (especially since that statement can effect the Pens' standing in what to do with him)

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TSN is profiling the Cane's today for our off season game plan.

TSN: Hurricanes Off Season Game Plan

And PHT was talking about Semin. Would he be an option for a wing? I know he's had his difficulty, but his latent skill is undeniable. Maybe an alternate option instead of Hudler or Parise.

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And PHT was talking about Semin. Would he be an option for a wing? I know he's had his difficulty, but his latent skill is undeniable. Maybe an alternate option instead of Hudler or Parise.

Semin has been mentioned a few times. There is no question he has the talent but I'm not sure his downside doesn't outweigh his upside. We sure don't need a player who can disappear from time to time. Maybe Muller could make him accountable but I think he would be a big risk.

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Couple of things...

Yes, the Pitkanen/McBain pairing was just ugly.. always was, but.... so was the Spacek/McBain pairing. I really don't understand how anyone can say Spacek and McBain paired together was pretty good. Just..no.

I honestly would not be surprised to see us taking Paul Martin in a trade with J.Staal. My prediction is Pitkanen is moved for a package involving a player like Matt Greene. That player will then be moved in a package for J.Staal&Martin.

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