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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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On a side note, as much as many here (including myself) have push aside this option, is anyone else warming up to the idea of bringing Semin in? At this point, I'm thinking Parise is going to either stay in NJ or be way too expensive for us (especially if JR gets J.Staal). Semin does have amazing skill and because of other issues he could come a bit cheaper than expected. Right-handed shot, as well.. I dunno.. just a thought.

I mentioned this a bit ago, but that's pretty much where I stand on Semin. I'd still try hard to grab Parise or some big-name trade targets, but I wouldn't be opposed to picking up Semin. He's got world-class talent and always seems to find a way to kill us, so those are some positives. The main negative is the attitude/disappearing act and I think we have the coaching staff to handle it.

As you mention, he would probably come at a lower number than our other targets, so that may free up money to do a little more for our defense as well. We may miss out on the bigger names there too, but could probably find a guy at the next notch down (someone mentioned Carle earlier?) for a reasonable amount.

One last thing: This ballooning salary cap is really starting to get out of hand. If the cap is going to be 70 million (as reported), that puts teams like the 'Canes in a tough spot. It forces us to spend money, so we almost have to upgrade somewhere (or inflate contracts a bit like Florida did this past offseason), but it really hurts the bottom line. This organization is going to have a tough time breaking even or turning a profit without significant increases in revenue somewhere (hopefully not ticket prices). The new CBA absolutely HAS to do something to help out the smaller-market teams or they're almost guaranteed to end up being priced out of the league.

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On a side note, as much as many here (including myself) have push aside this option, is anyone else warming up to the idea of bringing Semin in? At this point, I'm thinking Parise is going to either stay in NJ or be way too expensive for us (especially if JR gets J.Staal). Semin does have amazing skill and because of other issues he could come a bit cheaper than expected. Right-handed shot, as well.. I dunno.. just a thought.

I can't say that I'm warming up to the idea of the Canes bringing in Semin but I am beginning to think about it. Semin has the talent but I would still list him as a reclamation project. I'm not sure JR is up to a high risk signing. With options appearing to be limited this off-seasonI I expect we (the Canes) should keep an open mind.

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So, there is an "I" in team. :)

No, but there is a "me" in team. :P

But seriously, there is a limit to all platitudes. Why not just ask J.Staal to go play in the minors for the "good of the team". There is a limit to how much "for the good of the team" to expect in good conscience. I want a team player, but I don't want a guy with the potential to be a star content with not only being on the checking line but signing a new contract to stay there for years to come.

OK I'll go ahead and take a shot at the obvious similar argument: Brandon Sutter. I have to admit there is some similarity. But Sutter is still on the contract cycle that J.Staal is coming off of. Sutter was #11 overal vs. #2, J.Staal put up 59 points in 68 games including playoffs, Sutter put up 32 points in 82 games. I do think that this could be somewhat of an issue, but in Sutter's case his main value to the team is checking and PK. In Staal's case it is clearly putting up points as a two way second liner.

As to Semin. I just doubt it. JR is not a major Russianophile, and Semin has been part of a seriously playoff challenged underpeforming team. Now if we got J.Staal and Semin? Hmmmm. That would be pretty hard to walk away from.

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Think JR will approach the Pens about Jordan Staal before draft day, in case Carolina needs to throw in a draft pick. Then go after Parise on July 1st, if NJ hasn't already re-signed him. What would be Plan B if Parise is not available? ... Semin? ...a high-end trade? A secondary plus, IMO Parise could be a good role-model for Skinner.

Semin is really an expensive mixed-bag. He says his priority is a long-term deal vs salary. So maybe the Canes could get for a modest salary increase over 5 year with NTC starting in year 3. If a coach could remedy his disappearing act, he definitely has the offensive skill set the Canes need. But as pointed out, JR has a Russian bias which could kill even looking at Semin. As for Nash, IMO he would never come to another non-traditional market like Raleigh; and Parise may not either, according to his father (really likes NYR coach).

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Think JR will approach the Pens about Jordan Staal before draft day, in case Carolina needs to throw in a draft pick. Then go after Parise on July 1st, if NJ hasn't already re-signed him. What would be Plan B if Parise is not available? ... Semin? ...a high-end trade? A secondary plus, IMO Parise could be a good role-model for Skinner.

Semin is really an expensive mixed-bag. He says his priority is a long-term deal vs salary. So maybe the Canes could get for a modest salary increase over 5 year with NTC starting in year 3. If a coach could remedy his disappearing act, he definitely has the offensive skill set the Canes need. But as pointed out, JR has a Russian bias which could kill even looking at Semin. As for Nash, IMO he would never come to another non-traditional market like Raleigh; and Parise may not either, according to his father (really likes NYR coach).

No thanks on a NTC for Semin.

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No thanks on a NTC for Semin.

I was just thinking that if we went after Semin and he was really looking for long term (5-7 years) stability, he would probably want an NTC/NMC protection. My rationale was only offer NTC for the outer years after using the 1st couple of years to see if he's going to workout ... trade him after year 1 or 2 or keep him long-term. Just a thought if JR would even look at him....

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What about a trade with the Sharks but not for Marleau?

How about trying to get Pavelski? The more and more I see the line for Staal may be as long as it is for Suter or Parise. Pavelski could easily to be traded for less than Jordan. Pavelski has put up 51, 66, and 61 points in the last three seasons. He will be turning 28 in about a month and is signed at 4 million for another 2 seasons.

San Jose is the same position as Pittsburgh as far as 3 deep down the middle. With Thornton, Pavelski and Couture. They are looking for shore up some PK issues. They may also be looking for move Marleau, plus to get Nash.

My thoughts are this.

For Pavelski we go: Boychuk, McBain and a swap of 1st rounders (I really dont see us moving Larose although that may be what SJ wants). SJ will get to negiotiate contracts with them both before if they want. Then SJ will use McBain with Marleau and a future pick to get Nash. Columbus needs young cheaper Dmen and someone to replace the talent of a guy who doesnt want to be there. Demers is about the only NHL ready go that SJ has that they could move. SJ can then use the 8th pick to get a guy that will "replace" thorton/pavelski in Faska, Grigorenko, or Gaunce and get a top line winger in Nash. Hurricanes win in this as they pay a lot less than they would have for Staal while getting the same type numbers and can use the 17th pick for a big need in the system, a goalie. 8 is too high for Dansk or Subban but 17 isnt too bad as I have seen both go anywhere from 17-37. I dont see JR going after Vasilevski as rem stated "he isnt a russianophile."

to Canes: Pavelski, 17th pick

to Sharks: Boychuk, Nash, 8th pick

to Jackets: Marleau, McBain, and future 1st rounder

All this still leaves a guy like Pits as bait for another move to get a better Dman or get a winger.

Edited by gocanes0506

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What about a trade with the Sharks but not for Marleau?

How about trying to get Pavelski? The more and more I see the line for Staal may be as long as it is for Suter or Parise. Pavelski could easily to be traded for less than Jordan. Pavelski has put up 51, 66, and 61 points in the last three seasons. He will be turning 28 in about a month and is signed at 4 million for another 2 seasons.

San Jose is the same position as Pittsburgh as far as 3 deep down the middle. With Thornton, Pavelski and Couture. They are looking for shore up some PK issues. They may also be looking for move Marleau, plus to get Nash.

My thoughts are this.

For Pavelski we go: Boychuk, McBain and a swap of 1st rounders (I really dont see us moving Larose although that may be what SJ wants). SJ will get to negiotiate contracts with them both before if they want. Then SJ will use McBain with Marleau and a future pick to get Nash. Columbus needs young cheaper Dmen and someone to replace the talent of a guy who doesnt want to be there. Demers is about the only NHL ready go that SJ has that they could move. SJ can then use the 8th pick to get a guy that will "replace" thorton/pavelski in Faska, Grigorenko, or Gaunce and get a top line winger in Nash. Hurricanes win in this as they pay a lot less than they would have for Staal while getting the same type numbers and can use the 17th pick for a big need in the system, a goalie. 8 is too high for Dansk or Subban but 17 isnt too bad as I have seen both go anywhere from 17-37. I dont see JR going after Vasilevski as rem stated "he isnt a russianophile."

to Canes: Pavelski, 17th pick

to Sharks: Boychuk, Nash, 8th pick

to Jackets: Marleau, McBain, and future 1st rounder

All this still leaves a guy like Pits as bait for another move to get a better Dman or get a winger.

I'd rather get SJS's Ryane Clowe as the gritty forward JR talked about. Pavelski is about the size of Skinner and has offensive skills. Doubt he would bring the defensive and PK talent of a Jordan Staal. Maybe he could be a Plan B candidate if Parise is unavailable but IMO not a J. Staal replacement. He's a RW with a right shot. Not sure about these 3-way trades of multiple players ... to many moving parts.

Looks like the local paper thinks Pavelski and Clowe could be available this off-season: The Mercury News believes that two of Joe Pavelski, Marleau, Boyle, Ryane Clowe and Marty Havlat will be gone before the 2012-13 season kicks off.

Edited by Bill_B

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J. Staal

for

Canes #1 this year plus Ryan Murphy

After pondering on it more, this makes some sense for both sides.

The Pens can use the Canes 8th overall to land a solid D-man and they get Murphy on the blue line too. Sure they lose Staal but he’s likely going to be lost to FA next year anyways.

For Carolina, we get Staal for a year for “only” 4.5 million and then we can makea move to resign him this time next year.

On top of that, by keeping the CAP money low with J. Staal at 4.5mil, we can pick up Ray Whitney as a FA for his final year.

Adding Whitney and J. Staal to this roster makes the Canes a top-8 team next season!

In fact, I think I’d rather have J.Staal + Whitney (for a year) over Zach Parise.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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J. Staal

for

Canes #1 this year plus Ryan Murphy

After pondering on it more, this makes some sense for both sides.

The Pens can use the Canes 8th overall to land a solid D-man and they get Murphy on the blue line too. Sure they lose Staal but he’s likely going to be lost to FA next year anyways.

For Carolina, we get Staal for a year for “only” 4.5 million and then we can makea move to resign him this time next year.

On top of that, by keeping the CAP money low with J. Staal at 4.5mil, we can pick up Ray Whitney as a FA for his final year.

Adding Whitney and J. Staal to this roster makes the Canes a top-8 team next season!

In fact, I think I’d rather have J.Staal + Whitney (for a year) over Zach Parise.

Pens do not need an offensive defenseman that won't contribute for a couple years. They need a defensive defenseman that can play NOW.

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Why do people still pine for the return of Ray Whitney? Don't get me wrong, I loved Ray when he was here, but that ship has sailed. If he were 34 or 35 years old, I'd be more inclined to go there. This team needs to be built for long term success. If the Canes are in the hunt next year, need a veteran forward, and can pick up Ray at the trade deadline as a rental for the remainder of the season (providing his play is continuing to stay at a high level) then I'd be with you. Starting the season with him as the answer to one of the questions on this team, I'll pass.

As far as Murphy and the #1 this year for Staal, it's an overpayment with only one year left on the deal. If he had 3 years left, I'd think it was okay. Trading those assets away and not knowing if you have him for more than a year is too much. I've seen some of Murphy's play with Kitchener, and the guy is for real. Incredible skating ability. The Canes can make a run at J. Staal next summer rather than overpay now. For the Canes to be competitive running a bargain squad, young players on entry level deals have to contribute. Trading away 2 of those chips is expensive.

Edited by super_dave_1

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I agree a #8 plus Murphy is overpayment. It will probable take the #8 and a prospect but not a Murphy. I would guess there will be some conditional provision if we sign J. Staal to a contract. But I still don't believe the Pens are dealing.

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Greg-N-Ral, are your Greg-From-Pittsburgh? So TWO first round top 10 draft picks (OK Murphy was #12, but he slipped down, and #8 and 12 average ten), for ONE year of J.Staal? So one year from now when Staal decides we can't afford him and is gone, and we are down two elite draft picks....if that happened most GM's would be selling used cars the next year.

Clearly I really like the idea of getting Staal, but he is almost a rental for that one year. We have to get the right price.

Whitney is a mortal. I simply cannot believe what he has done at his age, but I also simply cannot believe he will keep it up into his 40's.

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J. Staal

for

Canes #1 this year plus Ryan Murphy

After pondering on it more, this makes some sense for both sides.

The Pens can use the Canes 8th overall to land a solid D-man and they get Murphy on the blue line too. Sure they lose Staal but he’s likely going to be lost to FA next year anyways.

For Carolina, we get Staal for a year for “only” 4.5 million and then we can makea move to resign him this time next year.

On top of that, by keeping the CAP money low with J. Staal at 4.5mil, we can pick up Ray Whitney as a FA for his final year.

Adding Whitney and J. Staal to this roster makes the Canes a top-8 team next season!

In fact, I think I’d rather have J.Staal + Whitney (for a year) over Zach Parise.

No.

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I would still like to add a little more depth besides the bigger names. We need more size up front for those grinding type games Muller likes to play at times. Bring in Luke Adam and Taylor Pyatt, guys that like to hit, can skate well and can put the puck in when needed.

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It's been said - Pens do not need another offensive dman (which is too bad, considering that's almost all we have). Pens need a defensive dman and a top 6 winger. I've mentioned our 1st, Harrison OR Joslin, and Jokinen OR Tlusty for J.Staal; most Pens fans laugh at that deal. I'm not sure why.. What exactly are they expecting?.. J.Staal isn't Kovalchuk.

Also, I think what we all need to realize here is if Pittsburgh expects a big return for J.Staal that means a contract extension has to come with the deal. This is why J.Staal has the upper hand. He almost gets to pick where he goes. And yes, I do think his desire is to be here. We have a hole of a role he can and wants to fill. And, of course, his brother is here.

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J. Staal

for

Canes #1 this year plus Ryan Murphy

After pondering on it more, this makes some sense for both sides.

The Pens can use the Canes 8th overall to land a solid D-man and they get Murphy on the blue line too. Sure they lose Staal but he’s likely going to be lost to FA next year anyways.

For Carolina, we get Staal for a year for “only” 4.5 million and then we can makea move to resign him this time next year.

On top of that, by keeping the CAP money low with J. Staal at 4.5mil, we can pick up Ray Whitney as a FA for his final year.

Adding Whitney and J. Staal to this roster makes the Canes a top-8 team next season!

In fact, I think I’d rather have J.Staal + Whitney (for a year) over Zach Parise.

No thanks.

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Chip Alexander - Canes now have McBain re-signed to two-year deal. Focus turns to a new contract for Sanguinetti.

Chip Alexander - GM Jim Rutherford again said UFA defenseman Bryan Allen will test free agency on July 1.

Edited by jeromeo87

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Figured Allen and Spacek would be gone...didn't figure Allen would call his own shot with free agency.

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Man.. with guys like Faulk, McBain, Gleason, Murphy, Dumoulin, and Sangs.. and then JR wanting to add Allen, and Spacek apparently willing to sign right now.. Pitkanen should probably be worried; especially since JR wants to go after a top line winger and/or J.Staal. Pitkanen isn't exactly cheap, and it's going to take some seious $$$ to bring in the kind of forward JR wants.

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Looks like we just re-upped Sanguinetti and Blanchard too.

Man.. with guys like Faulk, McBain, Gleason, Murphy, Dumoulin, and Sangs.. and then JR wanting to add Allen, and Spacek apparently willing to sign right now.. Pitkanen should probably be worried; especially since JR wants to go after a top line winger and/or J.Staal. Pitkanen isn't exactly cheap, and it's going to take some seious $$$ to bring in the kind of forward JR wants.

I've always figured that Pitkanen would be top on the trade bait list...then again, I can't figure out why we re-upped him a year ago either.

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I've been reading and not posting here for a while but I have to respond to this idea that the 2012-13 season will start with a $70 million salary cap. If this is what everyone is going to base their offseason projections on, someone will please need to respond to this...

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/spector/comments/nhl_gms_face_salary_cap_headaches_this_summer/

Maybe I'm reading the article or the posts on here wrong; however, it seems to me a lot of folks are not taking into consideration the impending CBA negotiations when factoring the future cap ceiling and floor.

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I've been reading and not posting here for a while but I have to respond to this idea that the 2012-13 season will start with a $70 million salary cap. If this is what everyone is going to base their offseason projections on, someone will please need to respond to this...

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/spector/comments/nhl_gms_face_salary_cap_headaches_this_summer/

Maybe I'm reading the article or the posts on here wrong; however, it seems to me a lot of folks are not taking into consideration the impending CBA negotiations when factoring the future cap ceiling and floor.

I don't think anyone here is doing anything but repeating what's been reported in the media. Interesting article though, thanks for posting it. With Fehr representing the NHLPA I'm not overly confident this negotiation is going to go smoothly.

And welcome. :)

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