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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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I'm still holding on to hope that Parise is interested in coming here. And why shouldn't he? He wants to win, right? We have our all-star in E.Staal and one of the best franchise goalies in the league in Ward. Our secondary scoring is not bad at all. As I see it, we have 3 main needs. First line winger, second line center, reliable dman. If we could fill one or two of those holes, we're a playoff team, guys.

That would be wonderful. Getting a UFA like Parise would mean would could use our assets to trade for a 2nd line center (ie: J. Staal), a gritty skilled forward (ie: Clowe, Pyatt, etc), and a shut-down D-man.

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I'm of the opinion that JR shouldn't trade Sutter or Faulk for either J. Staal or Nash. If that prohibits him from acquiring either of those guys then so be it. Sutter will not be easily replaced and Faulk is a future top pairing dman. Basically I don't want to see JR dig himself a deeper hole just so fans can be pleased with a top player for Eric Staal.

That would be wonderful. Getting a UFA like Parise would mean would could use our assets to trade for a 2nd line center (ie: J. Staal), a gritty skilled forward (ie: Clowe, Pyatt, etc), and a shut-down D-man.

I believe Pyatt is a free agent.

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Agree thought that the Parise check is going to be big. Very big.

I just see so many issues. There aren't a lot of top level forwards out there as UFA's and there are teams (like the Canes) that are going to have to spend money just to reach the cap floor. Add in that there is a team like Detroit that has money to spend, doesn't mind spending, has cap space, and has a couple of big skates to fill. All of that is going to drive his price up and I just think JR is going to bow out of a bidding contest that may end up at about $8M or so for 8 years.

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I'm of the opinion that JR shouldn't trade Sutter or Faulk for either J. Staal or Nash. If that prohibits him from acquiring either of those guys then so be it. Sutter will not be easily replaced and Faulk is a future top pairing dman. Basically I don't want to see JR dig himself a deeper hole just so fans can be pleased with a top player for Eric Staal.

I believe Pyatt is a free agent.

I would only trade young forwards, not any of our young d-men. Don't yell at me but if we got J Staal and have 5 centers, I think Sutter could be used to get that top wing like Nash, Ryan, Brown, etc. He's young and talented plus it would give him a chance to be a #2 center. Isn't there a Sutter in LA?

IMO, the best deal for the canes is a trade for Staal and a ufa signing of Parise. But if the go for Nash it will close before next weekend's draft.

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I would only trade young forwards, not any of our young d-men. Don't yell at me but if we got J Staal and have 5 centers, I think Sutter could be used to get that top wing like Nash, Ryan, Brown, etc. He's young and talented plus it would give him a chance to be a #2 center. Isn't there a Sutter in LA?

IMO, the best deal for the canes is a trade for Staal and a ufa signing of Parise. But if the go for Nash it will close before next weekend's draft.

I just don't think you can trade a player with his affordable contract and his shut down abilities and expect to find someone to replace him.

Also Brown is not available. He just captained his team to a Stanley Cup and played a big role in winning.

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I just see so many issues. There aren't a lot of top level forwards out there as UFA's and there are teams (like the Canes) that are going to have to spend money just to reach the cap floor. Add in that there is a team like Detroit that has money to spend, doesn't mind spending, has cap space, and has a couple of big skates to fill. All of that is going to drive his price up and I just think JR is going to bow out of a bidding contest that may end up at about $8M or so for 8 years.

Yep, lots of problems. Even if PK opens the pocketbook, he has to be careful about the pecking order of salaries and cap hits. 8 at 8 is really about all he can do. I think you have it about right.

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A few pending free agent lower price forwards worth taking a look at are:

Taylor Pyatt - LW

Brandon Prust - RW

Ryan Carter - C

Ryan Shannon - C

Steve Bernier - RW

Not big names but could be a fit .

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A few pending free agent lower price forwards worth taking a look at are:

Taylor Pyatt - LW

Brandon Prust - RW

Ryan Carter - C

Ryan Shannon - C

Steve Bernier - RW

Not big names but could be a fit .

We had Carter on our 4th line a couple of years ago. Pyatt, Prust (did he just re-sign?), or Bernier could be that gritty bottom 6 player JR mentioned but I'd prefer SJS's Clowe. Not familiar with Shannon.

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I just don't think you can trade a player with his affordable contract and his shut down abilities and expect to find someone to replace him.

Also Brown is not available. He just captained his team to a Stanley Cup and played a big role in winning.

Seems if you have to trade for that top line wing with close to an Eric Staal contract, you will have to give up something of value, like Sutter, Jokinen, and/or Tlusty. No way you can trade Boychuk, Dalpe, or Bowman for a Nash, Ryan, Brown, etc.. JR will have to decide what would make the team better a top wing or a 3rd line checking center.

Personally, I love to watch Sutter play and he has talents that would be difficult to replace but not as difficult as the missing 30-40 goal scorer, IMO.

As for Brown, you are probably right. Although he had a slow season start and was trade rumor scuttle-butt along with Penner, he did have a very good playoffs. But in reality, he is really not the prolific scorer the Canes need. Canes need somebody that can consistently put up 30-40 goal and 70+ points (matching Eric Staal)

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what are the odds of the Canes signing their remaining UFAs (Specek and Allen)

I think Spacek might depend on if we trade defensive assets to get our forward.

Allen? Might be a question of money.

On the Allen money front, it does look like R.Suter is going to be a free agent.

My link

He probably costs more than Allen, but how much more? Another blue chip FA, that everyone and their mother will be after, but if we trade for the forward, perhaps sign the dman?

This is a rough year to try to sign high profile FA's, but seems necessary in building a team to sign at least one or two key FA so as to not have to give to get every time.

Team A signs Brad Richards FA, only money. Team B has to trade it's number 8 pick and prospects and a proven value scorer, plus, for R.Nash.

How many times through that cycle can team B stay competitive?

Parise is going to take mad money. Semin? He's picking a great year to come out, so despite the warning flags will get paid. I suppose the same will be true for Suter, but there are a lot of dmen FA and it's a deep defensive draft...I don't know just hope we sign at least one solid FA .

Edited by remkin

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Ugh...mark my words: WE WILL NOT GET RYAN SUTER. Detroit will get him before we have a chance to even talk to him.

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If we could sign Spacek for somewhere near his current aalary, I would love to see us re-sign him. He adds some veteran maturity to the d-core

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Seems if you have to trade for that top line wing with close to an Eric Staal contract, you will have to give up something of value, like Sutter, Jokinen, and/or Tlusty. No way you can trade Boychuk, Dalpe, or Bowman for a Nash, Ryan, Brown, etc.. JR will have to decide what would make the team better a top wing or a 3rd line checking center.

Personally, I love to watch Sutter play and he has talents that would be difficult to replace but not as difficult as the missing 30-40 goal scorer, IMO.

Since the Canes only have about 2 centers for the top 3 lines (second line is currently centered by committee), trading Sutter away leaves another hole that has to be filled. I'm not arguing that the top winger may or may not be more valuable than Sutter, just that trading Sutter leaves another hole that must be addressed.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Since the Canes only have about 2 centers for the top 3 lines (second line is currently centered by committee), trading Sutter away leaves another hole that has to be filled. I'm not arguing that the top winger may or may not be more valuable than Sutter, just that trading Sutter leaves another hole that must be addressed.

Yes. I think Sutter is pretty high up on the do not trade list. He fills his role beautifully and he had serious potential upside offensively. Further he is young and relatively inexpensive and even further he is a leader. Even further further, he's learned how to win faceoffs, a point of some concern a while ago. It would take an amazing return for JR to move him IMHO, and as you point out, we need true centers and he is that (further, further, further).

Edited by remkin

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Sounds like the consensus is we have nobody of quality to trade...no Staal, no Skinner, no Ward, no Ruutu, no Sutter...for that top line winger. So we have to buy Parise or Semin as UFA's, since they are the only true top 3 wings available for cash.

As of today, RFA Evander Kane may hit the market. That would be interesting.

Also, if you go back to JR's exit comments, Welsh is tagged as a center along with Staal, "the committee", Sutter, and Brent. Rumor mill acquisition of Jordan Staal would replace "the committee".

Edited by Bill_B

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Ugh...mark my words: WE WILL NOT GET RYAN SUTER. Detroit will get him before we have a chance to even talk to him.

You may well be right, they are certainly listed as the top team for him. But one of the reasons everyone assumes that guys are going to non Raleigh destinations is that we've really not been active in the big fish FA market before. I tell you this time is different.

IF we trade some defensive assets to pick up a winger/center, we might want to really go after Suter though. And if we make that trade before free agency, we might really suddenly look good to a guy like Suter. Of course the might is a huge might.

Say we first make a trade:

Joni for an offensive asset of some merrit. Then trade that guy, plus our first, and one of our seconds, plus a prospects, plus our first next year, plus...and sign Rick Nash before FA. Now we're looking pretty good to a FA out there.

We then throw the kitchen sink at Suter. And tell him, look, with you and Nash on this team, we are in the mix. And Raleigh's a great place to live.....

Fit those two guys into last year's team? That's worth emptying part of the pipeline.

I know I'm dreaming! What else is there to do?

Edited by remkin

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You may well be right, they are certainly listed as the top team for him. But one of the reasons everyone assumes that guys are going to non Raleigh destinations is that we've really not been active in the big fish FA market before. I tell you this time is different.

IF we trade some defensive assets to pick up a winger/center, we might want to really go after Suter though. And if we make that trade before free agency, we might really suddenly look good to a guy like Suter. Of course the might is a huge might.

Say we first make a trade:

Joni for an offensive asset of some merrit. Then trade that guy, plus our first, and one of our seconds, plus a prospects, plus our first next year, plus...and sign Rick Nash before FA. Now we're looking pretty good to a FA out there.

We then throw the kitchen sink at Suter. And tell him, look, with you and Nash on this team, we are in the mix. And Raleigh's a great place to live.....

Fit those two guys into last year's team? That's worth emptying part of the pipeline.

I know I'm dreaming! What else is there to do?

Think you're on to something. Go big with assets to land Nash and show our commitment. Then go big with cash to land Suter. Think JR would ever go that big with assets and all the barbs about over-paying for Nash?

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Spector's is reporting Suter doesn't want to play in the east. So we can forget him too.

Picky, picky.

Maybe he doesn't like the taxes in his new 41 game home, and 1/2 of his income. TN has zero on income, same with FL. Oh wait, FL is in the east. Nevermind.

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Spector's is reporting Suter doesn't want to play in the east. So we can forget him too.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/159195455.html

I also read another article that I can't find right now specifically saying he doens't only want to play in the west. That being said, I still think he ends up in Detroit.

Also, Rob Rossi said on a late-night sport show in Pittsburgh that Carolina is going hard at Staal and the rumored deal he heard was Faulk, Sutter, 8th overall, plus another piece. AND Carolina might be willing to take Martin.

There's just no way this is true.. Plus, Rossi sometimes proves to not be so credible. Not buying it.

Edited by jeromeo87

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http://www.startribu.../159195455.html

I also read another article that I can't find right now specifically saying he doens't only want to play in the west. That being said, I still think he ends up in Detroit.

Also, Rob Rossi said on a late-night sport show in Pittsburgh that Carolina is going hard at Staal and the rumored deal he heard was Faulk, Sutter, 8th overall, plus another piece. AND Carolina might be willing to take Martin.

There's just no way this is true.. Plus, Rossi sometimes proves to not be so credible. Not buying it.

WHAT! Do the Pens throw Malkin into the deal? Jeez , Pittsburgh has a high opinion of themselves.

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I agree a #8 plus Murphy is overpayment. It will probable take the #8 and a prospect but not a Murphy. I would guess there will be some conditional provision if we sign J. Staal to a contract. But I still don't believe the Pens are dealing.

J. Staal

for

Canes #1 this year plus Ryan Murphy

Ironic, Pens board did not like this trade either, they felt Murphy and 1.08 this year is NOT enough for Jordan Staal.

They state they have several young D-men in the minors AHEAD of Murphy and a #8 pick is a "scratch off" ticket (could be worth nothing).

MORAL OF THE STORY: fans tend to OVERVALUE their home team's assets!!

That's why we see posts here like, "sure I would want Rick Nash, but no way I want to lose Brandon"... kinda silly when you think about it.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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J. Staal

for

Canes #1 this year plus Ryan Murphy

Ironic, Pens board did not like this trade either, they felt Murphy and 1.08 this year is NOT enough for Jordan Staal.

They state they have several young D-men in the minors AHEAD of Murphy and a #8 pick is a "scratch off" ticket (could be worth nothing).

MORAL OF THE STORY: fans tend to OVERALL their home team's assets!!

That's why we see posts here like, "sure I would want Rick Nash, but no way I want to lose Brandon"... kinda silly when you think about it.

You are correct that fans from all teams tend to overvalue assets when it comes to trades. If I were the Pens I would want Sutter in the deal. Sutter could step right into the third line center spot in Pittsburgh. But as a Canes fan I want to get better and that would include holding on to Sutter if at all possible.

The thing is that although J. Staal is very good and most teams would love to have him the Pens really either need to extend his contract or trade him for a reasonable return. If J. Staal really does want to come to Carolina (not sure about that) another team would be foolish to give up much for a one year run. If the Pens keep him and are in the playoff hunt they wouldn't trade him at deadline and they risk losing him to FA. If the Pens are out of the playoff hunt (that won't happen) they could trade him to a team looking for a rental but the return wouldn't be that great. Late round draft pick and prospect or player . The Pens need to make a good deal but I'm beginning to think it won't be a first round pick or a Sutter.

If we trade for J. Staal now we will probable have to overpay but not with a Sutter or Faulk. IMO

If J Staal wants Carolina we can wait the Pens can't IMO.

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