Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

Recommended Posts

Also, Rob Rossi said on a late-night sport show in Pittsburgh that Carolina is going hard at Staal and the rumored deal he heard was Faulk, Sutter, 8th overall, plus another piece. AND Carolina might be willing to take Martin.

There's just no way this is true.. Plus, Rossi sometimes proves to not be so credible. Not buying it.

That is WAY too much for one year of Staal. If we get him signed might almost still be too much.

It is good that we are going after him though. On NHL radio one commentator thought he was a legit first line center. Having him anchor our second line, gives us a pretty solid team.

I HATE the idea of giving up Sutter, but Faulk? Not only is that ridiculous, but will not happen. JR is not trading Faulk. Stay calm JR.

Fortunately JR is dealing with another GM and not outrageously biased fans.

They state they have several young D-men in the minors AHEAD of Murphy and a #8 pick is a "scratch off" ticket (could be worth nothing).

Note to Pittsburgh fans: I'll tell you what could be worth nothing...Jordan Staal when he walks next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spector's is reporting Suter doesn't want to play in the east. So we can forget him too.

Suter's agent denied this the next day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone thinks the Pens have to trade J. Staal...not true. I would not just give him away for a pick. He is under contract...why not take one more shot at the cup with the three best center's in the NHL IMO.

Canes' fans under value J. Staal & Pens' fans over value him.

I still think a trade of #8 overall, Jokinen, & a prospect...for a SIGNED J. Staal to a 4 year extension is fair for both teams.

Pens get an extra first round pick, a locked in NHL top 9 forward for two years at 3M per year, & a prospect.

Canes get a solid second line center for 5 years...& don't give up Sutter. Making them one of the deepest teams down the middle. Dalpe should be able to take Jokinen's spot in the top 9.

Edited by rocheccw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone thinks the Pens have to trade J. Staal...not true. I would not just give him away for a pick. He is under contract...why not take one more shot at the cup with the three best center's in the NHL IMO.

Canes' fans under value J. Staal & Pens' fans over value him.

I still think a trade of #8 overall, Jokinen, & a prospect...for a SIGNED J. Staal to a 4 year extension is fair for both teams.

Pens get an extra first round pick, a locked in NHL top 9 forward for two years at 3M per year, & a prospect.

Canes get a solid second line center for 5 years...& don't give up Sutter. Making them one of the deepest teams down the middle. Dalpe should be able to take Jokinen's spot in the top 9.

I agree with most of what you say. No doubt that is fair for a signed J Staal.

I disagree with Dalpe replacing Jokinen. Jussi is a proven 30 goal scoring playmaking, shootout making, versatile, crafty potentially first line playing player with a low goal year last year. Dalpe is a fast, hyped, decent college and AHL scoring guy who for whatever reason has so unimpressed people that the golden boy heir apparent to the top 6 from training camp was not even a late call up last year. He would seem to be under even Boychuk on the recent disappointment list.

IF JR gives up a proven top 6 asset (which we only have 5 IF you include Tlusty), he will need to replace that asset with an actual top 6 player, not a prospect (if we had an elite prospect it would be different). The problem is that the logical place to try to find a second line winger would be FA but there aren't many good ones there.

Now, if JR made that deal above, and then replaced Jussi with.......Parise...! Ha! Never happen, but who boy what a team!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dalpe crashed and burned this past season. Boychuck looked ok. The only person that might be able to fill the Juice void is Tlusvy(sp?) and that's a big maybe.

Edited by bluedevil58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dalpe crashed and burned this past season. Boychuck looked ok. The only person that might be able to fill the Juice void is Tlusvy(sp?) and that's a big maybe.

Boychuk looked ok? Were we watching the same games? The last time Boychuk was called up...by Muller, he didn't last past the 1st period before being benched and sent back to Charlotte.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boychuk looked ok? Were we watching the same games? The last time Boychuk was called up...by Muller, he didn't last past the 1st period before being benched and sent back to Charlotte.

Maybe I am delusional. I thought he started to play better towards the end of the season. I guess I have him confused with someone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the Caniacs are not the only fans to over value their players. IMO there is no way JR will trade Faulk, whose potentially another Suter; but that does not mean other D aren't available. I can see JR moving a NHL quality forward & d-man, along with a prospect or two for Jordan.

Hopefully he's using #8 & #38, Sutter, Pitkanen, LaRose, Stewart, and Peter's negotiating rights with the option of 2013 1st rounder for Rick Nash. We need to figure out how to out-bid NYR for Nash. Writers keep saying the Canes can't match asset quality.

Also, read an Ottawa newspaper article on some NHL website this morning that said several anonymous NHL scouts said this is the poorest draft in about 12 years, despite the hype...not only the quality and depth but the "Russian-effect" also. If JR buys into this, it could be a good year to trade draft picks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dalpe crashed and burned this past season. Boychuck looked ok. The only person that might be able to fill the Juice void is Tlusvy(sp?) and that's a big maybe.

IMO,they all crashed and burned under the Muller-test, except Bowman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of what you say. No doubt that is fair for a signed J Staal.

I disagree with Dalpe replacing Jokinen. Jussi is a proven 30 goal scoring playmaking, shootout making, versatile, crafty potentially first line playing player with a low goal year last year. Dalpe is a fast, hyped, decent college and AHL scoring guy who for whatever reason has so unimpressed people that the golden boy heir apparent to the top 6 from training camp was not even a late call up last year. He would seem to be under even Boychuk on the recent disappointment list.

IF JR gives up a proven top 6 asset (which we only have 5 IF you include Tlusty), he will need to replace that asset with an actual top 6 player, not a prospect (if we had an elite prospect it would be different). The problem is that the logical place to try to find a second line winger would be FA but there aren't many good ones there.

Now, if JR made that deal above, and then replaced Jussi with.......Parise...! Ha! Never happen, but who boy what a team!

All true...I don't want to give up the juice, but I think the Pens would want a top 9 forward back...so if not the juice then who...Sutter..No...Tlusty...maybe(1.6 cap hit for two years), LaRose...maybe(only one year left on current deal)...Ruutu...maybe(4.75 for 4 years) but would have to be replaced.

Remkin, what do you think would be a fair deal for a signed J. Staal?

Do you think that the #8 pick, Tlusty, & a top prospect would be enough for a signed J. Staal, & enough for the Pens to pull the trigger?

Edited by rocheccw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All true...I don't want to give up the juice, but I think the Pens would want a top 9 forward back...so if not the juice then who...Sutter..No...Tlusty...maybe(1.6 cap hit for two years), LaRose...maybe(only one year left on current deal)...Ruutu...maybe(4.75 for 4 years) but would have to be replaced.

Remkin, what do you think would be a fair deal for a signed J. Staal?

Do you think that the #8 pick, Tlusty, & a top prospect would be enough for a signed J. Staal, & enough for the Pens to pull the trigger?

I would hope it would be; however, you never know. I do know that the Pens really need a top 6 right-handed shot, a defensive dman, and perhaps a third line center to replace Staal. I don't see how that package helps them, when looking at their team needs. Of course, they may be more inclined to take a package like that if we are willing to take on Martin. Martin struggled last year, but it was just one year. Besides that, he has been a really reliable d man.

Edited by jeromeo87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All true...I don't want to give up the juice, but I think the Pens would want a top 9 forward back...so if not the juice then who...Sutter..No...Tlusty...maybe(1.6 cap hit for two years), LaRose...maybe(only one year left on current deal)...Ruutu...maybe(4.75 for 4 years) but would have to be replaced.

Remkin, what do you think would be a fair deal for a signed J. Staal?

Do you think that the #8 pick, Tlusty, & a top prospect would be enough for a signed J. Staal, & enough for the Pens to pull the trigger?

IMO you may be overvaluing our players and protecting to many. I believe JR should use #8 for a Nash deal. Go after Jordan with a quality forward & d-man and a couple of prospects ... maybe throw in one of our 2nd round picks. I'd use Sutter for the Nash deal, not the Staal deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Numbers don't lie. Since January 1st the Canes went 20/12/10. Our current team has the talent to make a playoff run. Yes, adding some extra talent is really what this team needs to make the team whole again. I'm a believer in young players mixed with some solid veterans is the key. Look at the 05-06 team. There were some big names and some young players who are now the Canes’ and/or other teams big players. Ray Whitney (UFA) would be a great player to bring back. Yeah he’s 40, but he led the Yotes with 77 points and would be that bring balance for guys like Staal and Skinner. Look back at Skinner’s rookie season when he was paired with Erik Cole compared to the hot headed sophomore of this last season. A player like Whitney would make everyone of our guys better.

There’s so much talk of our draft, and rightfully so since we have some great draft spots. But we need to talk more than about Nash. We need two experienced players up front and at least one to balance out the defense. That true even if they’re going to keep Allen and Spacek.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remkin, what do you think would be a fair deal for a signed J. Staal?

Do you think that the #8 pick, Tlusty, & a top prospect would be enough for a signed J. Staal, & enough for the Pens to pull the trigger?

Well I was agreeing that your trade might be fair, just that we would still have to replace Jussi, and Daple is far from that, so I'm not sure I'd do it.

Second, THREEWAY!!!

I still think McBain and Pits are the two easiest assets for us to lose that have some value. Some have suggested Murphy and our #8 pick, but he's an offensive dman also,

I was thinking see who has something Pittsburgh GM wants (not their crazy fans), and see if we can get them for McBain or Pits, then trade that to Pittsburgh for JStaal. If we have to throw in our pick, I would insist on signing him. If we can do it conditional on signing him somehow, i'd give our #1 pick and any prospect in the AHL, or one of our seconds.

Faulk is crazy talk. Sutter would be pried from my clenched fingers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I was agreeing that your trade might be fair, just that we would still have to replace Jussi, and Daple is far from that, so I'm not sure I'd do it.

Second, THREEWAY!!!

I still think McBain and Pits are the two easiest assets for us to lose that have some value. Some have suggested Murphy and our #8 pick, but he's an offensive dman also,

I was thinking see who has something Pittsburgh GM wants (not their crazy fans), and see if we can get them for McBain or Pits, then trade that to Pittsburgh for JStaal. If we have to throw in our pick, I would insist on signing him. If we can do it conditional on signing him somehow, i'd give our #1 pick and any prospect in the AHL, or one of our seconds.

Faulk is crazy talk. Sutter would be pried from my clenched fingers.

I agree - a threeway makes a lot of sense. Pens need a top 6 right-handed forward. I read today that Setoguchi might be available; and Minny needs some dmen. Pitkanen, Boychuk, and a 3rd for Setoguchi - Setoguchi, Dalpe, 2nd for J.Staal. Something like that. Maybe?

Oh, and for those of whom this may excite, Cullen might be available. haha

Edited by jeromeo87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Numbers don't lie. Since January 1st the Canes went 20/12/10. Our current team has the talent to make a playoff run. Yes, adding some extra talent is really what this team needs to make the team whole again. I'm a believer in young players mixed with some solid veterans is the key. Look at the 05-06 team. There were some big names and some young players who are now the Canes’ and/or other teams big players. Ray Whitney (UFA) would be a great player to bring back. Yeah he’s 40, but he led the Yotes with 77 points and would be that bring balance for guys like Staal and Skinner. Look back at Skinner’s rookie season when he was paired with Erik Cole compared to the hot headed sophomore of this last season. A player like Whitney would make everyone of our guys better.

Numbers don't lie, but people's interpretation of them does. After all there's lies, damed lies, and statistics.

That late season run meant that last year's team, with no chance of the playoffs, facing a cavalcade of back up goalies made a nice run last year. Of course it also meant that our pick is #8 instead of #3, but anyway.

We've made lots of late season runs. They have all had just about zero impact on the next year. Heck one year we made a late season run all the way to the ECF. Thus we were awesome to start the next year right? Not so much.

The GM has to take a sober look at the talent on this team and ask if it is enough. JR has clearly done that and said no, that's not enough. Thankfully.

I'll be wrong on Whitney until one day I'm right, but the guy is 40, and he kind of stiffed us. That ship has sailed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be wrong on Whitney until one day I'm right, but the guy is 40, and he kind of stiffed us. That ship has sailed.

How exactly did Whitney stiff the Canes? We have heard rumors of a proposed trade that he turned down, but he had a NTC and we don't know what took place behind the scenes. Maybe JR had led him to believe that he would be re-signed only to change his mind as the season came to a close.

If Ray was brought back on a 1 year deal as a complimentary player, then fine. If he is the "big" signing, then not so fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are so many willing to trade Sutter? If Jordan Staal wants to play in Carolina I'd be willing to wait another season until he's free. If he doesn't, then its all BS anyway. In 2 years we're likely in the same division. Why would JR possibly do that deal? Nope, not gonna happen.

Pittsburgh is holding a weak hand on any deal for Staal, and it gets weaker by the day going into next season.

As for trading Faulk, you can forget that, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was listening to John Forslund on The Fan, it sure sounds like he expects us to make a trade or at the very least take a good shot at one before the draft.

I was also reading the Evander Kane stuff floating around and in spite of some denials by his agent I think that he is available for the right deal. Just a hunch.

x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are so many willing to trade Sutter? If Jordan Staal wants to play in Carolina I'd be willing to wait another season until he's free. If he doesn't, then its all BS anyway. In 2 years we're likely in the same division. Why would JR possibly do that deal? Nope, not gonna happen.

Pittsburgh is holding a weak hand on any deal for Staal, and it gets weaker by the day going into next season.

As for trading Faulk, you can forget that, too.

How is it a weak hand?

Pens don't have to trade J. Staal...they can just take another shot at the cup with the big three all already signed for next year. Crosby will be extended, & if they don't get good return for J. Staal...Shero has already said that he is willing to go into next season with Jordan on his last year of his contract.

To me the Pens position is a strong hand. Is trading J. Staal for nothing worth hurting your team?

If you kept J. Staal & took a shot at the cup...with all three centers healthy going into the season for the first time since winning the cup in 09' & all you had to risk was losing Jordan, but you had all year to try to extend him...then why wouldn't you roll the dice.

Pens are in the driver's seat on any trade for J. Staal...because they don't have to trade him.

No one knows what the new CBA will look like...if the cap continues to go up...then he could easily be extended if he likes his roll in Pittsburgh...If the cap goes down then they could be forced to trade him, or lose him for nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was listening to John Forslund on The Fan, it sure sounds like he expects us to make a trade or at the very least take a good shot at one before the draft.

I was also reading the Evander Kane stuff floating around and in spite of some denials by his agent I think that he is available for the right deal. Just a hunch.

x

Hope Johnny is right. Also hope JR can multi-task and get Staal and Nash this week, especially Nash.

Trade players only (maybe 3) for Staal maybe via a 3-way, maybe add a 2nd round pick. The Pens may like to have LaRose's right-hand shot and energy or Stewart's big body. I would not be surprised if JR would use our #8 pick and Brandon Sutter as the foundation of a Nash trade (maybe a combo of 7 assets).

The way all the websites talk, the Nash deal will likely close on Wed or Thur, so JR better be burning the midnight oil to best NYR and any others. The Canes cannot compete with NYR or SJS straight up on their rumored players to be offered so we will have to offer more assets (NHL'ers, picks, & prospects).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Chip's article today:

"What would the Canes be willing to give up for Nash? Likely their first-round draft pick -- No. 8 overall -- some roster players and some of their top prospects. But Carolina apparently is not willing to make such players as Staal, Jeff Skinner, Cam Ward, Brandon Sutter or Justin Faulk a part of any trade."

And this-

"A trade for center Jordan Staal of the Pittsburgh Penguins would cause a big stir this week with the NHL Entry Draft to be held in Pittsburgh. That is not considered likely, however."

Full Article Here

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the numbers, i don't see anyway we make a deal without including ruutu. If carolina got Nash, i don't see carolina going into next offseason with ruutu, staal, and nash's contract and still needing to resign skinner. I also don't see Pits being moved to either columbus or pittsburgh with both teams having bad contracts at the blueline.

If we were to get Nash, i see a deal looking like this

Ruutu

8th pick

Harrison

Rask

Future 2nd/3rd rounder

One potential team to move pits to could be Minnesota. They currently only have 1 dman making more than 1mil a year, and they're allegedly going to top all salaries in the Parise race, so i could see them movin a forward to balance their payroll. I think a Pits for Setoguchi trade would work for both teams.

Edited by PenaltyKiller17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...