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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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Looking at the numbers, i don't see anyway we make a deal without including ruutu. If carolina got Nash, i don't see carolina going into next offseason with ruutu, staal, and nash's contract and still needing to resign skinner. I also don't see Pits being moved to either columbus or pittsburgh with both teams having bad contracts at the blueline.

If we were to get Nash, i see a deal looking like this

Ruutu

8th pick

Harrison

Rask

Future 2nd/3rd rounder

One potential team to move pits to could be Minnesota. They currently only have 1 dman making more than 1mil a year, and they're allegedly going to top all salaries in the Parise race, so i could see them movin a forward to balance their payroll. I think a Pits for Setoguchi trade would work for both teams.

Didn't both Gleason and Ruutu get a NTC in their contracts when they signed their extension. I know it wouldn't be impossible to move a player with a NTC but it is unlikely. I think Ruu is off the table in trade talks.

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I hope his idea of acquiring a top line forward is not one which involves moving up for a higher pick in hopes of drafting an impact me now player....

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Looking at the numbers, i don't see anyway we make a deal without including ruutu. If carolina got Nash, i don't see carolina going into next offseason with ruutu, staal, and nash's contract and still needing to resign skinner. I also don't see Pits being moved to either columbus or pittsburgh with both teams having bad contracts at the blueline.

If we were to get Nash, i see a deal looking like this

Ruutu

8th pick

Harrison

Rask

Future 2nd/3rd rounder

One potential team to move pits to could be Minnesota. They currently only have 1 dman making more than 1mil a year, and they're allegedly going to top all salaries in the Parise race, so i could see them movin a forward to balance their payroll. I think a Pits for Setoguchi trade would work for both teams.

Have you seen what NYR and SJS are supposed to be offering? I don't think this would have us in the running, which we are rumored to be. Still feel Sutter is the missing piece from making the Nash trade happen.

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It's going to be hard for JR to acquire that top player without being willing to deal at least one of Sutter or Faulk..

I agree. Chip Alexander made it sound like the old JR trade strategy, which is irritating.

Think JR should hold on to Faulk, since he is a potential "star" defenseman. Brandon is a very good 3rd line center and PK expert with good trade value, so I would use him as a key piece for Nash or any top winger trade. I would not use him for Jordan Staal though. In fact if we trade Brandon for a top wing, we should make sure we do a deal to get Jordan Staal.

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I agree. Chip Alexander made it sound like the old JR trade strategy, which is irritating.

Think JR should hold on to Faulk, since he is a potential "star" defenseman. Brandon is a very good 3rd line center and PK expert with good trade value, so I would use him as a key piece for Nash or any top winger trade. I would not use him for Jordan Staal though. In fact if we trade Brandon for a top wing, we should make sure we do a deal to get Jordan Staal.

I agree with everything you said. And yes, it is irritating how JR seems to be pretty reluctant to make that "big deal." You gotta give to get. We don't know any details, but if we find out that the only thing holding up a Rick Nash to Carolina deal is Brandon Sutter... I wouldn't even know what to think.

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I agree with everything you said. And yes, it is irritating how JR seems to be pretty reluctant to make that "big deal." You gotta give to get. We don't know any details, but if we find out that the only thing holding up a Rick Nash to Carolina deal is Brandon Sutter... I wouldn't even know what to think.

I was flabbergasted when I read Chip's article this morning. I mean what is more important to the Canes success, a top-tier scoring winger or a very good checking center; and which piece is easier to secure/replace? JR can be infuriating...sounds like his same old strattegy of something for nothing. UGH!!!!

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How exactly did Whitney stiff the Canes? We have heard rumors of a proposed trade that he turned down, but he had a NTC and we don't know what took place behind the scenes. Maybe JR had led him to believe that he would be re-signed only to change his mind as the season came to a close.

If Ray was brought back on a 1 year deal as a complimentary player, then fine. If he is the "big" signing, then not so fine.

In what was yet another dead in the water end of season "go for the pick" situation, we had a couple of tradable assets. By far the juiciest: Ray Whitney. Reportedly JR had a trade worked out and reportedly Ray killed the deal. We ended up getting nothing for Whitney, who then proceeded to mail it in for the rest of the season, then walked for nada.

I said "kind of" because one never really knows the inside scoop. I just have a feeling that JR was less than thrilled about getting nothing when a deal was on the table, and might not really be thinking Whitney.

Here's another thought on Whitney. The guy had an off the hook season despite his long wisdom teeth. The guy was 13th (how ironic is that) in the league in points. This is insane production for essentially a 40 year old, and more points than the likes of Zach Parise, E.STaal, Gaborik, etc etc. So, I, who said, "no way" on Whitney, really have no business even commenting on him. I am going to assume that this thing is a crow crow-1.jpg, and on Whitney I must eat the little guy.

BUT I gotta think Ray is looking for serious money this year, and he IS 40 now. At the risk of eating crow again......I'd pass.

HOWEVER, as you pointed out, as a role player on a one year deal...maybe if the contract were not crazy. But I'd still prefer to find someone under 40. Age has to catch up with him eventually, and when it does, better be careful how much $$ is on the line (and will he want another NTC).

Edited by remkin

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I was flabbergasted when I read Chip's article this morning. I mean what is more important to the Canes success, a top-tier scoring winger or a very good checking center; and which piece is easier to secure/replace? JR can be infuriating...sounds like his same old strattegy of something for nothing. UGH!!!!

I'll say this: we aren't sitting at the table with JR, so we really don't know whats going on. The article did just say that "it appears" JR isn't willing to trade those players. Perhaps he's just trying everything you can to not trade Sutter, as he should. But I think, at least I hope, that if it came down to it, JR would do what he had to do to bring in a guy like Nash.

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From Chip's article today:

"What would the Canes be willing to give up for Nash? Likely their first-round draft pick -- No. 8 overall -- some roster players and some of their top prospects. But Carolina apparently is not willing to make such players as Staal, Jeff Skinner, Cam Ward, Brandon Sutter or Justin Faulk a part of any trade."

Full Article Here

Thanks for the link Coastal. I don't get too worked up about saying we're not trading Faulk or Sutter. JR is not going to telegraph what he might end up doing. This is a negotiation. If he is close to getting Nash with: McBain, #8, Dalpe, Boychuk, and one other piece, and Columbus says, 'throw in Sutter and you have a deal". We have a deal. If that name is Faulk...no.

The most expected, reality check thing in that article though is the pretty clear implication that we are NOT going to get Parise. JR said it a few different ways. Parise will get the big front loaded contract, and while the Canes may be feeling ready to spend, not to the pinnacle of mega bucks.

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In what was yet another dead in the water end of season "go for the pick" situation, we had a couple of tradable assets. By far the juiciest: Ray Whitney. Reportedly JR had a trade worked out and reportedly Ray killed the deal. We ended up getting nothing for Whitney, who then proceeded to mail it in for the rest of the season, then walked for nada.

I said "kind of" because one never really knows the inside scoop. I just have a feeling that JR was less than thrilled about getting nothing when a deal was on the table, and might not really be thinking Whitney.

Here's another thought on Whitney. The guy had an off the hook season despite his long wisdom teeth. The guy was 13th (how ironic is that) in the league in points. This is insane production for essentially a 40 year old, and more points than the likes of Zach Parise, E.STaal, Gaborik, etc etc. So, I, who said, "no way" on Whitney, really have no business even commenting on him. I am going to assume that this thing is a crow crow-1.jpg, and on Whitney I must eat the little guy.

BUT I gotta think Ray is looking for serious money this year, and he IS 40 now. At the risk of eating crow again......I'd pass.

HOWEVER, as you pointed out, as a role player on a one year deal...maybe if the contract were not crazy. But I'd still prefer to find someone under 40. Age has to catch up with him eventually, and when it does, better be careful how much $$ is on the line (and will he want another NTC).

I can understand having some beef with Whitney, but JR did give him the NTC. If Whitney didn't want to go to LA, it was within his rights to make the decision he made. I can't fault him for that.

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I'll say this: we aren't sitting at the table with JR, so we really don't know whats going on. The article did just say that "it appears" JR isn't willing to trade those players. Perhaps he's just trying everything you can to not trade Sutter, as he should. But I think, at least I hope, that if it came down to it, JR would do what he had to do to bring in a guy like Nash.

You're right, we aren't behind the doors. Let's hope JR gives it his best shot. I'd love it if he can get that top-tier wing without losing any of our top guys. But hope he has the fortitude to pull the trigger if we have to give up a favorite like Sutter.

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Some of you are going to bust a gut or something before any deals are made. Chill. B)

Well I can already tell we are setting ourselves up for a let down. I still think managements idea of a top line forward will either be a 20 goal scorer or someone that has been under achieving and hoping to jump start their career here. The only way possible of us landing Nash would be something like Skinner and a first rounder. I know you guys cringe at this but Nash is an elite forward and will require a hefty return to acquire him.

It's takes trading talent to acquire top talent.

Edited by bluedevil58

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I can understand having some beef with Whitney, but JR did give him the NTC. If Whitney didn't want to go to LA, it was within his rights to make the decision he made. I can't fault him for that.

That's why I said "kind of". But some folks rightly point out that while JR is well within his rights to trade say Jussi, he should really think hard about trading a guy who took the hometown discount. Similarly, true Ray had a NTC and was within his rights to refuse the trade, it absolutely hurt the team, and JR also has the right to feel a bit unhappy about Ray exercising that right to our loss. And fans also have the right to not feel warm and fuzzy about Ray choosing to hurt the team, even if it was his right to do it.

Don't get me wrong. i don't think this is Babchuk bad or anything, and in the end for me as a fan I am still net positive on Whitney and his time here. Just doubt we bring him back. We brought Stillman back though so who knows.

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Well I can already tell we are setting ourselves up for a let down. I still think managements idea of a top line forward will either be a 20 goal scorer or someone that has been under achieving and hoping to jump start their career here. The only way possible of us landing Nash would be something like Skinner and a first rounder. I know you guys cringe at this but Nash is an elite forward and will require a hefty return to acquire him.

It's takes trading talent to acquire top talent.

Setting ourselves up for a let down? - Maybe.

Getting Nash would take Skinner and 1st? - No.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but you are the biggest downer here.. Imma try to help you.

357862-i275.photobucket.com-albums-jj320-blackroses98-puppys.png

black_and_white_kittens_avatar_picture_25928.jpg

Who can withhold smiling at puppies and kittens? :thumbsup2:

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@MolinariPG: Shero said that when teams inquire about Staal, "I tell everyone the same thing." Which is that he hopes -- and wants -- to re-sign Staal.

Either he REALLY wants to keep J.Staal, or he's discovered he isn't going to get what he wants in a trade involving J.Staal. Or both.

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Setting ourselves up for a let down? - Maybe.

Getting Nash would take Skinner and 1st? - No.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but you are the biggest downer here.. Imma try to help you.

357862-i275.photobucket.com-albums-jj320-blackroses98-puppys.png

black_and_white_kittens_avatar_picture_25928.jpg

Who can withhold smiling at puppies and kittens? :thumbsup2:

A lot of these trade proposals/opinions for Nash have been unrealistic. This is probably what it is going to take to get the guy. The only other thing I see is Jussi, 1st rounder, and Faulk or Murphy for Nash. He is leaving a huge scoring void in columbus so they are going to want someone who can score in return that can somewhat fill the void. Again, this is an elite power forward we are talking about getting here...

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A lot of these trade proposals/opinions for Nash have been unrealistic. This is probably what it is going to take to get the guy. The only other thing I see is Jussi, 1st rounder, and Faulk or Murphy for Nash. He is leaving a huge scoring void in columbus so they are going to want someone who can score in return that can somewhat fill the void. Again, this is an elite power forward we are talking about getting here...

I'm with you.. I'm not saying it isn't going to take A LOT. Because it is. I'm just saying it's not going to be Skinner-+-our-1st a lot.

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Well I can already tell we are setting ourselves up for a let down. I still think managements idea of a top line forward will either be a 20 goal scorer or someone that has been under achieving and hoping to jump start their career here. The only way possible of us landing Nash would be something like Skinner and a first rounder. I know you guys cringe at this but Nash is an elite forward and will require a hefty return to acquire him.

It's takes trading talent to acquire top talent.

You may be right about us heading for a letdown because I'm not sure JR & PK know how to play hardball with the big boys and they've never had to pull the trigger on a really big deal ... at least not in a very long, long time. So NYR will probably win again. But I hope we do!!!

However I don't think they could get Skinner from us...just to valuable to the franchise. This is similar to Columbus asking for Couture from SJS and Kreider from NYR...answer from both teams was "nyet".

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Personally, I don't think anything happens with J. Staal at the draft, and Nash is realistically off the table for the Canes due to the asking price. With Parise seemingly out of reach contract-wise, the Canes will be forced to go after the second-tier group of players.

I think a draft day trade involving the Canes will come down to who's still there at #8. JR will want to hang on to that pick way more if one of the big-name forwards (Grigorenko, Teravainen) falls to the Canes. Otherwise, JR is shopping that pick as hard as he can on draft day for a NHL-ready top-6 guy, given we are stacked with defensive prospects.

I've not been a big fan of this until the last couple of weeks, but acquiring Alex Semin in FA might be a good move, given the circumstances. Unfortunately, the Canes may have to wait another year before they are in a position to challenge again for the Cup. I think a few moves around the edges could get us in, but we are too depth-challenged to be a serious contender until we build some additional NHL assets.

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A lot of these trade proposals/opinions for Nash have been unrealistic. This is probably what it is going to take to get the guy. The only other thing I see is Jussi, 1st rounder, and Faulk or Murphy for Nash. He is leaving a huge scoring void in columbus so they are going to want someone who can score in return that can somewhat fill the void. Again, this is an elite power forward we are talking about getting here...

Based on the rumor mill, NYR is offering Dubinsky, Del Zotto, a couple other players, and their #1 draft pick. SJS is offering Pavelski, Clowe, maybe Marleau, another player, and their 1st rounder. Tough for JR to win but he should walk away from a Skinner or Faulk deal. I rather see him throw in our 2013 1st rounder vs these potential franchise players. I'd rather see JR offer Sutter than Jussi or Ruutu. I've never seen Murphy play NHL hockey. I don't know if he's a potential star or if he can carry Faulk's gymbag; although he was very good in the OHL.

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I've not been a big fan of this until the last couple of weeks, but acquiring Alex Semin in FA might be a good move, given the circumstances. Unfortunately, the Canes may have to wait another year before they are in a position to challenge again for the Cup. I think a few moves around the edges could get us in, but we are too depth-challenged to be a serious contender until we build some additional NHL assets.

Buy Semin for the LW and trade for Nash at RW and then Eric Staal at Center ... excuse my pipedream, I couldn't help myself!!

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So here's the list of the top point producers on the wing from last year...

LW http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&team=&position=R&country=&status=&viewName=summary

RW http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&team=&position=R&country=&status=&viewName=summary

In terms of trades I'd think we are looking at Moulson, Sharp, Hartnell or JVR, maybe Lucic or Marchand on the Left and Nash, Parenteau, Perry or Ryan on the right.

What about making a run at Taylor Hall or one of the other young Oilers? Edmonton is gonna get Nail with the #1 pick, we could give them #8 where they will get a defensive pick and we could work out the other picks/prospects to make the deal work. Edmonton is loaded offensively with Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Gagner, Hemsky, etc. and they really need to upgrade defensively. Pitkanen won't be a part of this given his history with the Oil so that would likely mean we give up Sanguinetti, Murphy or McBain as a part of the deal.

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Personally, I don't think anything happens with J. Staal at the draft, and Nash is realistically off the table for the Canes due to the asking price. With Parise seemingly out of reach contract-wise, the Canes will be forced to go after the second-tier group of players.

I've not been a big fan of this until the last couple of weeks, but acquiring Alex Semin in FA might be a good move, given the circumstances.

I hold out hope for a J Staal trade. I agree Parise is going to be out of our range as probably is Nash (though small hope there).

While Semin may seem like a big gamble, he is the best non Parise FA forward out there. His value will likely be high once Parise is gone. If there is a way to get him for non crazy money, I say he's worth the risk. Yes he will be expensive, but he isn't getting a crazy 12 million for the first two years likely Parise type deal. Plus, he could be had without giving up ANYONE. Still have some serious powder dry for a trade later. Still could try to trade up in the draft, etc.

So I'm saying, that I agree with you and given the circumstances Semin would be a very very exciting pick up, especially if the price is too high on Staal. (I still think that deal could happen though).

Edit: Semin had a bit of an off year for him, but was still near the top of the team on plus minus, which would be odd for a guy not playing defense and playing hard. His off year and reputation might offset the fact that he is picking the perfect year to become a UFA, and maybe just barely put him in our this year zone.

This guy is capable of putting up 40 goals and nearly 90 points.

Edited by remkin

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This should put an end to all the Jordan Staal trade speculation, at least for now. From Josh Yohe, a Pens beat writer who talked directly to Ray Shero:

“You can’t have it both ways,” he (Shero) said. “I can’t try to negotiate a contract with Jordan and a trade with another team at the same time. It doesn’t work that way. We don’t want to trade Jordan. We think we can sign him, and we’re going to try.”

Penguins general manager Ray Shero admitted today that numerous teams have inquired about the availability of center Jordan Staal.

Shero’s reply is simple: Staal isn’t available.

Despite steady speculation all summer that Staal could be traded this summer, Shero will attempt to sign the center to a long-term contract.

“He told me he likes it here,” Shero said. “Told me he wants to stay, that he likes Pittsburgh and likes being a Penguin.”

Shero and Staal’s agent have had “general discussions” about a new deal.

Full Article Here

Edited by coastal_caniac

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